Brexit - whats the difference.....

[ChopleyIOM]

I recall a few years ago political satirists joking saying "imagine Trump and BJ were in power at the same time". Miraculously it has come true. Yesterday we have Trump posting a picture of a dog "That caught and killed the ISIS leader". BJ is just subservient to his banking masters. Wouldn't surprise me if this was all part of some shorting scheme on Sterling.

Oh make no mistake some people will be getting very rich out of all of this, just not the folks who voted for it.......

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Heh.

 

[EkJR]

Oh make no mistake some people will be getting very rich out of all of this, just not the folks who voted for it.......

The uncertainty will be making some super rich. They will keep extending this deadline until they have extracted every last copper they can.

 

[steveh35]

The majority in Parliament is ensuring the minority government is not getting away unchecked with things the majority don’t want. Democracy.

That would be the democracy of failing to implement the result of the referendum carried out in 2016 by making up laws with John Bercow and refusing an election 3 times.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

No laws have been 'made up' and refusing to grant Johnson his election is entirely within the scope of the Fixed Term Parliament act which was passed by, erm, the UK Parliament.

 

[EkJR]

That would be the democracy of failing to implement the result of the referendum carried out in 2016 by making up laws with John Bercow and refusing an election 3 times.

It's a remain parliament, what do you expect? One thing I would say is that the Mps are not being representative of their communities in instances. Leave places voting remain etc.

 

[steveh35]

No laws have been 'made up' and refusing to grant Johnson his election is entirely within the scope of the Fixed Term Parliament act which was passed by, erm, the UK Parliament.

Someone has caught Jeremy Corbyn running away from an election

 

[thr0b]

It's a remain parliament, what do you expect? One thing I would say is that the Mps are not being representative of their communities in instances. Leave places voting remain etc.

Is it? Are you sure? This parliament has had the opportunity to revoke A50 and to put a new referendum on the table several times. But it hasn’t. This parliament also agreed Boris’ lousy deal could go to a second reading, just not be passed in three days (less time than devoted to reviewing the wild animals in circuses act).

These are not the actions of a“remain” parliament, rather the actions of a parliament not letting an executive action its party policy unchecked.

But that’s the issue with the Leave campaign. Facts don’t matter.

 

[steveh35]

Is it? Are you sure? This parliament has had the opportunity to revoke A50 and to put a new referendum on the table several times. But it hasn’t. This parliament also agreed Boris’ lousy deal could go to a second reading, just not be passed in three days (less time than devoted to reviewing the wild animals in circuses act).

These are not the actions of a“remain” parliament, rather the actions of a parliament not letting an executive action its party policy unchecked.

But that’s the issue with the Leave campaign. Facts don’t matter.

Fact - parliament voted to leave the European Union when article 50 was triggered.
Fact - the SNP & Lib Dems have both stated they do not want to leave the EU and will do whatever it takes to remain.
Face -Jeremy Corbyn has asked for an election 50 times and when he was offered one he has rejected it 3 times.

 

[thr0b]

Corbyn is a tool, but he has consistently said he will vote for an election when No Deal is taken off the table. Which Boris refuses to do, because he wants No Deal. He only went back to the negotiating table when parliament passed an act forcing him to.

 

[steveh35]

Corbyn is a tool, but he has consistently said he will vote for an election when No Deal is taken off the table. Which Boris refuses to do, because he wants No Deal. He only went back to the negotiating table when parliament passed an act forcing him to.

Corbyn wants a general election, then he didn't want one until the EU granted an extension, then he didn't want one until no deal was off the table, now he doesn't want one because it will be dark on 12 December and the students will not be at university and the elderly don't go out in the winter.

Who is the one looking stupid at the moment it isn't Boris because some people open their eyes and see who stopped Brexit and a general election.

The Lib Dums and SNP at least have realised the voters are going to blame them and have woken up to an election.

 

[EkJR]

Is it? Are you sure? This parliament has had the opportunity to revoke A50 and to put a new referendum on the table several times. But it hasn’t. This parliament also agreed Boris’ lousy deal could go to a second reading, just not be passed in three days (less time than devoted to reviewing the wild animals in circuses act).

These are not the actions of a“remain” parliament, rather the actions of a parliament not letting an executive action its party policy unchecked.

But that’s the issue with the Leave campaign. Facts don’t matter.

Totally agree with the last statement, facts do not matter. Everyone voting to be poorer expect the richest. It's crazy shit.

 

[dunover]

The lame excuses Corbum comes up with are incredible. Students will have to go out in the dark - after all, they can't find pubs and bars after dark, can they? The elderly are retired pensioners who can go out in daylight to vote, or do they hibernate from November to March each year?

The simple fact is he doesn't want to risk the little bit of power that's landed in his Trotskyist lap.

Election before Brexit, he knows Liebore will be punished for obstructing it. Election after Brexit, Boris will have the momentum and be seen as the politician who actually got it done. So Corbum is crapping himself either way, so? NO ELECTION!

But hey! At least we won't have to roll our own pigs-in-blankets this Christmas.

 

[mack341]

Many remainers in this thread have often said the EU are the best negotiators, and will drive a hard bargain to get what's best in the EU's interests [which logically may not then coincide with ours in the long term] so any withdrawal deal is likely to contain drawbacks especially if the govt doing the negotiating didn't even have a working majority.

Let's have an election and then negotiate with brussels how you actually leave their club. No deal may be the most sensible option and to negotiate properly you have to be prepared to walk away otherwise you'd just accept anything, this is simple logic the lib dems etc.. seem unable to grasp, they'd rather live in airy-fairy land thinking the EU is wonderful.

One thing corbyn was right about a month ago or so, was asking what were the govt seeking in negotiations, boris replied it had to be kept all secret, but as we have a remain civil service at the top levels advising the govt in negotiations, I'd rather all the main details were on the table for the public to see, especially prior to this general election. So a quick snap election does have the disadvantage of leavers being hoodwinked without proper analysis of future policies, how many times has the british establishment/govt tricked or tried to trick the public?

 

[steveh35]

Totally agree with the last statement, facts do not matter. Everyone voting to be poorer expect the richest. It's crazy shit.

Don't talk such rot, if you was in prison and they said hey we are going to release you next week do you go oh my god no more meals four times a day no roof over my head, no job or do you go I'm getting out and have my freedom?

I just don't get people like EkJR who want to be shackled by this EU club who have no interest in the UK other than our money they are not interested in what is best for each country they are interested in what is best for Brussels.

 

[thr0b]

The lame excuses Corbum comes up with are incredible. Students will have to go out in the dark - after all, they can't find pubs and bars after dark, can they? The elderly are retired pensioners who can go out in daylight to vote, or do they hibernate from November to March each year?

The simple fact is he doesn't want to risk the little bit of power that's landed in his Trotskyist lap.

Election before Brexit, he knows Liebore will be punished for obstructing it. Election after Brexit, Boris will have the momentum and be seen as the politician who actually got it done. So Corbum is crapping himself either way, so? NO ELECTION!

But hey! At least we won't have to roll our own pigs-in-blankets this Christmas.

the student issue is that most are likely not to be registered to vote at their parents addresses, which is where they are likely to be on 12th December. This group is also the group least likely to vote Tory and more likely to vote Lib Dem. That date has been chosen by the Tories for a reason.

 

[EkJR]

Many remainers in this thread have often said the EU are the best negotiators, and will drive a hard bargain to get what's best in the EU's interests [which logically may not then coincide with ours in the long term] so any withdrawal deal is likely to contain drawbacks especially if the govt doing the negotiating didn't even have a working majority.

Let's have an election and then negotiate with brussels how you actually leave their club. No deal may be the most sensible option and to negotiate properly you have to be prepared to walk away otherwise you'd just accept anything, this is simple logic the lib dems etc.. seem unable to grasp, they'd rather live in airy-fairy land thinking the EU is wonderful.

One thing corbyn was right about a month ago or so, was asking what were the govt seeking in negotiations, boris replied it had to be kept all secret, but as we have a remain civil service at the top levels advising the govt in negotiations, I'd rather all the main details were on the table for the public to see, especially prior to this general election. So a quick snap election does have the disadvantage of leavers being hoodwinked without proper analysis of future policies, how many times has the british establishment/govt tricked or tried to trick the public?

No deal is not a sensible option, ever. Day 1 chaos. The economy and markets fucked instantly, hard border in Northern Ireland. Talking of Northern Ireland, not sure why the DUP are so against the deal for NI. They would have had the best of both worlds but can't bring themselves to vote for something that jeopardizes their precious union!

 

[thr0b]

Many remainers in this thread have often said the EU are the best negotiators, and will drive a hard bargain to get what's best in the EU's interests [which logically may not then coincide with ours in the long term] so any withdrawal deal is likely to contain drawbacks especially if the govt doing the negotiating didn't even have a working majority.

Let's have an election and then negotiate with brussels how you actually leave their club. No deal may be the most sensible option and to negotiate properly you have to be prepared to walk away otherwise you'd just accept anything, this is simple logic the lib dems etc.. seem unable to grasp, they'd rather live in airy-fairy land thinking the EU is wonderful.

One thing corbyn was right about a month ago or so, was asking what were the govt seeking in negotiations, boris replied it had to be kept all secret, but as we have a remain civil service at the top levels advising the govt in negotiations, I'd rather all the main details were on the table for the public to see, especially prior to this general election. So a quick snap election does have the disadvantage of leavers being hoodwinked without proper analysis of future policies, how many times has the british establishment/govt tricked or tried to trick the public?

so far, the Tories under Johnson have negotiated a deal that is worse than that they had under May, and gained a border in the Irish Sea which Johnson said only months ago that no Conservative government could ever accept. A truly skilled negotiator. Of the “bend me over and use me” style.

 

[EkJR]

Don't talk such rot, if you was in prison and they said hey we are going to release you next week do you go oh my god no more meals four times a day no roof over my head, no job or do you go I'm getting out and have my freedom?

I just don't get people like EkJR who want to be shackled by this EU club who have no interest in the UK other than our money they are not interested in what is best for each country they are interested in what is best for Brussels.

So unfettered access to a huge market and no tariffs is not a benefit then? Freedom of movement, again not a benefit?

 

[steveh35]

the student issue is that most are likely not to be registered to vote at their parents addresses, which is where they are likely to be on 12th December. This group is also the group least likely to vote Tory and more likely to vote Lib Dem. That date has been chosen by the Tories for a reason.

Just to correct the above most students are registered at both uni and home which is why they could vote twice last time and to be factual correct students finish on the 13 or 20 December and so now we can't have an election over Easter or in July or August or Septmeber because of the students.

Please talk sense.

 

[steveh35]

So unfettered access to a huge market and no tariffs is not a benefit then? Freedom of movement, again not a benefit?

Plenty of countries survive outside the EU I think Australia is pretty self sufficient as is Switzerland (and we know how the EU have tried to manipulate Switzerland this year) there is a world outside the EU it isn't the end of the world not to be in it.

 

[steveh35]

So let's look at it from this point of view

January - no election it will still be dark and might snow
February - no election it will still be dark and might snow
March - no election The clocks are still in winter time so it will be dark
April - no election - Easter students are at home, MPs on recess
May - yes we can have an election
June - yes we can have an election - oh wait people might have gone on holiday early to get cheap prices
July - no election - too hot might reach 36.7c again old people won't go out in the heat and students not at uni
August - no election - MPs' on recess, students at home, too hot
September - no election - students have not returned to uni
October - it's getting darker but a possibility
November - no election - too dark and cold
December - good grief no, too dark, too cold, students on leave, halls full of nativity plays, old people have gone into hibernation, ruin Christmas.

 

[EkJR]

Plenty of countries survive outside the EU I think Australia is pretty self sufficient as is Switzerland (and we know how the EU have tried to manipulate Switzerland this year) there is a world outside the EU it isn't the end of the world not to be in it.

I get that, but this is a huge market on our doorstep. So instead we say, we will have tariffs with our current biggest trading partner so that we can pursue other deals, deals with can take years and years to agree. It's madness!

 

[steveh35]

Corbyn has just agreed to support the election vote tonight

So we are on for an election BRING IT ON!!

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Plenty of countries survive outside the EU I think Australia is pretty self sufficient

So all we need to do now is rewind the clock hundreds of millions of years and ensure that the UK has the vast mineral and oil deposits that Australia does, and we'll be laughing!

Saudi Arabia does pretty well outside the EU as well. I wonder if they have anything to sell that the UK doesn't?