Brexit - whats the difference.....

[ChopleyIOM]

Well we will have to see, going to take longer, remainers like the conservative chancellor(s) frequently made doom-laden forecasts, so far they don't look like occurring. But as J.redwood reminded the Govt, they need to work on getting the brexit wins going, areas where we could now differentiate from the EU.

This John Redwood you mean?

Oh.

 

[cncas2123]

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Amazon have stopped selling alcohol to Northern Ireland

Yip , NI is becoming harder to trade with for the rest of the UK, and from personal knowledge I know that some manufacturers/suppliers have made a decision not to supply into NI because of the additional red tape.
Well done Arlene, that was a smart move not to make NI the hub of both the UK and Europe.
But unfortunately this is democracy at work, once the vote was to leave the only option was to respect that decision and leave.

 

[mack341]

This John Redwood you mean?

View attachment 149770

Oh.

View attachment 149771

30 dec

Speaking to colleagues in the Commons on Wednesday, he said: "We stand on the threshold of independence day so bring on the measures.

"I do have a couple of worries about this agreement. The first is over fishing....

"I also worry about the position in Northern Ireland. To what extent is our sovereignty damaged or impaired by the special relationships and the special provisions of the Withdrawal Act?

"I thought they were going to be changed in this latest agreement with the EU. Will the Government spell out more detail of what limitations there are to our power to be one United Kingdom."

According to the BBC 30 dec report on the brexit deal vote:

"Only two Tory MPs failed to support the deal - Brexiteers John Redwood and Owen Paterson abstaining."

IMO John redwood maybe many things but a liar is not one, as MPs go he's pretty principled and logical, though you may not like his logic.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

That's all very noble, he was so concerned about it that he..... abstained, when it getting through the Commons at that point was a slam dunk.

Maybe he should have paid more attention to the consequences of Brexit when he was campaigning for the hardest version possible, which one way or another was always going to end up throwing NI under the bus.

It's a bit late in the day for him to abstain on the final vote when every single action he'd taken up to that point pretty much helped guarantee the outcome he now claims to be upset about.

This is one of the (many) problems with Brexiters and the Leave movement in general, they only ever have the lightbulb moment when it's far too late and the damage has already been done. (See the many UK fishermen who now realise, in a genuine tragedy, that in voting for Leave they voted for their own bankruptcy and extinction.)

The Brexit we've ended up with is, in many regards, exactly the Brexit that Redwood always said he wanted, he just never seemed to understand, or at least cared to make the effort to understand, what it was he was campaigning for.

I mean, this is from 2017, so it's not exactly fresh information.

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[mack341]

That's all very noble, he was so concerned about it that he..... abstained, when it getting through the Commons at that point was a slam dunk.

Maybe he should have paid more attention to the consequences of Brexit when he was campaigning for the hardest version possible, which one way or another was always going to end up throwing NI under the bus.

It's a bit late in the day for him to abstain on the final vote when every single action he'd taken up to that point pretty much helped guarantee the outcome he now claims to be upset about.

This is one of the (many) problems with Brexiters and the Leave movement in general, they only ever have the lightbulb moment when it's far too late and the damage has already been done. (See the many UK fishermen who now realise, in a genuine tragedy, that in voting for Leave they voted for their own bankruptcy and extinction.)

The Brexit we've ended up with is, in many regards, exactly the Brexit that Redwood always said he wanted, he just never seemed to understand, or at least cared to make the effort to understand, what it was he was campaigning for.

I mean, this is from 2017, so it's not exactly fresh information.

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View attachment 149782

Probably because he agreed with the other parts of the bill, it's up to every individual MP to make that call, without going through everything redwood has said about theresa may's deal and the boris rewrite, I cannot reply to your attack on him, and I'm not going to waste my time, we all have MPs we don't like.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So we'll chalk him down to being another completely inconsistent Brexit faux-intellectual windbag who extensively campaigned for something without really understanding what it was and is now moaning about the consequences.

Maybe he believed all the Project Fear stuff about Breixt. He even wrote some of it.

 

[dunover]

So we'll chalk him down to being another completely inconsistent Brexit faux-intellectual windbag who extensively campaigned for something without really understanding what it was and is now moaning about the consequences.

Maybe he believed all the Project Fear stuff about Breixt. He even wrote some of it.

Well, having the foresight to invest taxpayer's money in a vaccine, order it in May, expedite the testing procedures and trials the UK has got something right. As opposed to the EU, who waited another 3 months before ordering the vaccines, so much so that individual countries ordered their own (Hungary, Germany). Now the EU are getting a shellacking from member states, like Spain who today ran out of vaccine.

So they think a non-member like the UK will send their own supplies manufactured here. Oh, great benevolent super state, how you have failed!
FUCK-OFF!

You see, when it comes to something strategic that requires planning and imagination, the EU bureaucrats are exposed for exactly what they are - ponderous, parasitic wine-quaffing stooges. Nice we aren't a vassal state any more....

 

[Playford7]

Well, having the foresight to invest taxpayer's money in a vaccine, order it in May, expedite the testing procedures and trials the UK has got something right. As opposed to the EU, who waited another 3 months before ordering the vaccines, so much so that individual countries ordered their own (Hungary, Germany). Now the EU are getting a shellacking from member states, like Spain who today ran out of vaccine.

So they think a non-member like the UK will send their own supplies manufactured here. Oh, great benevolent super state, how you have failed!
FUCK-OFF!

You see, when it comes to something strategic that requires planning and imagination, the EU bureaucrats are exposed for exactly what they are - ponderous, parasitic wine-quaffing stooges. Nice we aren't a vassal state any more....

@chopley currently melting down

 

[datch]

Well, having the foresight to invest taxpayer's money in a vaccine, order it in May, expedite the testing procedures and trials the UK has got something right. As opposed to the EU, who waited another 3 months before ordering the vaccines, so much so that individual countries ordered their own (Hungary, Germany). Now the EU are getting a shellacking from member states, like Spain who today ran out of vaccine.

So they think a non-member like the UK will send their own supplies manufactured here. Oh, great benevolent super state, how you have failed!
FUCK-OFF!

You see, when it comes to something strategic that requires planning and imagination, the EU bureaucrats are exposed for exactly what they are - ponderous, parasitic wine-quaffing stooges. Nice we aren't a vassal state any more....

The EU's vaccination program is a shame, no question about it. It is understandable that the English care about their own people first. Of course, I expect the same from the EU. I hope the vaccines in the EU will be confiscated and further exports to England, for example, will be prevented so that we can take care of our own people first.

We in the EU are very happy that those nonstop weeping
and demanding Brits are out. It is the best that could have happened to the EU. They have only tried to sabotage everything for the past 10 years anyway. They were like sand in the machine.
Now we can concentrate on the important things: an EU army, development of the poorer members of the "club", transferring further powers to BRUSSELS. And of course defending our sm against cheeky "third countries".
And all of this without the nagging, completely overestimating themselves and now globally totally meaningless Brits.
Glad they are out. They've annoyed us long enough.

 

[Slottery]

Like mentioned, other countries also made different agreements with companies who develop these vaccines, naturally as EU at least not yet is country, it's not that fast and flexible that these "unelected bureacrats" in Bryssels would make same kind of agreements behalf of whole EU without getting agreement from member countries. But anyway, happy that UK is hopefully getting vaccines, these seem to be quite needed there but finding it bit weird to compare EU and UK vaccination orders, maybe it's more normal way of thinking there in UK that there is some mysteric UK vs EU fight going on, which probably feel bit like it due to brexit but comparing these two like two countries is just quite absurd.

But happy that there are some happy moments in this thread as well Still don't see how EU affected to this, all countries had their opportunities to make some deals, making one order to whole EU of course was one quite logical step but naturally it's not with current legislation can't be fast as any single country, therefore some made own arrangements.

Currently bigger issue seem to be getting enough these vaccines, thikn nobody haven't yet secured all needed amount to be for sure delivered on time. Also fully agree that worse struggling third nations should get them first and good UK does. For pandemic itself it doesn't make big difference how situation is in country level until it still widely exist in world.

But maybe Chopley can add thiss vaccine thing to positive changes of brexit list? Even though it doesn't really have much to do with EU or brexit but could be counted just that don't have to repeat about that empty list

 

[bamberfishcake]

I liken Brexit to the Take That split.

Robbie (UK) went on to achieve bigger and better things whilst the rest (EU)........well......not sure what happened to the rest.....

 

[pinnit2014]

I liken Brexit to the Take That split.

Robbie (UK) went on to achieve bigger and better things whilst the rest (EU)........well......not sure what happened to the rest.....

Very true, the similarities are playing out

 

[geordiecolin]

I liken Brexit to the Take That split.

Robbie (UK) went on to achieve bigger and better things whilst the rest (EU)........well......not sure what happened to the rest.....

The EU have this on a loop

 

[bamberfishcake]

The only thing we have to watch out for is when our version if this beauty happens...........

 

[aceking123]

European or not, the vaccine should be equal across the board, all countries should be helping each other out.
What this world coming too. Survival of the richest & fittest.
Shocking really

 

[dunover]

The EU's vaccination program is a shame, no question about it. It is understandable that the English care about their own people first. Of course, I expect the same from the EU. I hope the vaccines in the EU will be confiscated and further exports to England, for example, will be prevented so that we can take care of our own people first.

We in the EU are very happy that those nonstop weeping
and demanding Brits are out. It is the best that could have happened to the EU. They have only tried to sabotage everything for the past 10 years anyway. They were like sand in the machine.
Now we can concentrate on the important things: an EU army, development of the poorer members of the "club", transferring further powers to BRUSSELS. And of course defending our sm against cheeky "third countries".
And all of this without the nagging, completely overestimating themselves and now globally totally meaningless Brits.
Glad they are out. They've annoyed us long enough.

Ironic post, considering it was Thatcher who was the main force in creating the EU free market that you see today, deregulated. The one that you love so much. So did we until the politics took over and we had a central bank, parliament, court etc.
As for vaccination, we can make enough doses here anyway with 3 plants, AZ have one in Belgium which is currently sending much of its output to er.. the UK who ordered it first.
EU army - I'd love to see that, considering (aside from the UK) only Greece and Latvia maintain 2% or more GDP expenditure on defence, as NATO requires. They'd probably need a committee to approve things before they picked up a gun, which would then be challenged at the Strasbourg Court, before needing signing off in a divided EU Parliament - and that's before they even get the right paperwork printed off...

 

[geordiecolin]

Just for old times sake

 

[cncas2123]

So it looks like the EU is the first to decide they can break the Northern Ireland protocol, definitely a case of double standards when they fumed about the UK government bringing in a law allowing them to change the protocol if needed.

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[ChopleyIOM]

Well that's a shady move, and one I can't condone or agree with.

One could argue the EU previously held the moral high ground when it came to NI and the NI Protocol, but they've pretty much just set fire to that.

It's a shame to see the whole thing descend into such acrimony so early on, we've not even been out of the EU a month and we're fighting over vaccines, for fuck's sake.

The UK has trash-talked and threatened the EU on a regular basis over the last five years so you could just say the EU is pushing back in that regard, but what a sorry sight on the international political stage.

There really are no winners in this, it's just losses all round.

 

[cncas2123]

Well that's a shady move, and one I can't condone or agree with.

One could argue the EU previously held the moral high ground when it came to NI and the NI Protocol, but they've pretty much just set fire to that.

It's a shame to see the whole thing descend into such acrimony so early on, we've not even been out of the EU a month and we're fighting over vaccines, for fuck's sake.

The UK has trash-talked and threatened the EU on a regular basis over the last five years so you could just say the EU is pushing back in that regard, but what a sorry sight on the international political stage.

There really are no winners in this, it's just losses all round.

Agree 100%, both sides should honour the agreements they signed and that includes the UK not running roughshod over the agreements and unilaterally changing the NI protocol at any stage.
Reading the heavily redacted contract that was published, AZ did say best endeavour and I suppose the legal hawks can interpret that in anyway they want.
I think for once Boris did the right thing, he got the scientists reading the test data as soon as they had access and he made sure that if approval for the vaccine was appropriate that it was granted as quickly as reasonably possible. That head start has enabled the UK to get good access and at the moment they are doing a decent job in getting it into peoples arms.

 

[datch]

Funny thing is that in eu, nobody cares anymore about (formerly Great) Britain, while british newspapers are full of stories and nonstories about eu and brexit every single day.
UK is more and more seen as the very strange cousin, where everybody thinks: "This ugly guy cannot be part of our family, it is just not possible."
BTW that's not only since 2016, more like the past 20 years.

People see it like a pain in the arse.
It feels great when you get rid of it.

I am an eu loving hardcore Brexiteer. No deal would have been my choice

 

[bamberfishcake]

UK is more and more seen as the very strange cousin, where everybody thinks: "This ugly guy cannot be part of our family, it is just not possible."

That is possibly the funniest thing ive heard this year.

 

[TheAddict]

Funny thing is that in eu, nobody cares anymore about (formerly Great) Britain, while british newspapers are full of stories and nonstories about eu and brexit every single day.
UK is more and more seen as the very strange cousin, where everybody thinks: "This ugly guy cannot be part of our family, it is just not possible."
BTW that's not only since 2016, more like the past 20 years.

People see it like a pain in the arse.
It feels great when you get rid of it.

I am an eu loving hardcore Brexiteer. No deal would have been my choice

British newspapers are full of stories of one of the most talked about happenings in their Country, of which Britain itself just so happens to be the instigator of. Shocking revelation. Never saw that one coming.
Now, please excuse me while I go cry because someone I've never met, who lives in Germany (a Country i do care about) has just told me that he doesn't care about my Country.

 

[Kroffe]

UK is full of cheeseburger prostitutes!



Yes i know its Canada

 

[datch]

British newspapers are full of stories of one of the most talked about happenings in their Country, of which Britain itself just so happens to be the instigator of. Shocking revelation. Never saw that one coming.
Now, please excuse me while I go cry because someone I've never met, who lives in Germany (a Country i do care about) has just told me that he doesn't care about my Country.

View attachment 149819

It wasn't meant as personal attack.

However, how do you want to pay? Neteller, PayPal? I mean 100 bucks are 100 bucks... ;-}

 

[Kroffe]

I was watching this historical documentary, and i have a really hard time understanding how the british managed to colonize such a big part of the world.

 

[TheAddict]

@datch


I only really commented because I believe, if for example it were Germany who had gone to leave the EU, it should be pretty obvious to anyone that the German newspapers would to still be wriiting about the EU and Germanys exit, because it directly concerns Germany.
I like Germany, I like your people, despite the fact that I despise your Tratiourous Chancellor Merkal with great passion, and not just because she has her tounge firmly wedged up the ass of EU leaders, but In the same way I despise our traitorous, puppet politicians for some of the things they've done to our Country.

The 100 bucks to f**k off was actually said in that clip of the Tralier Park Boys image I posted, by the guy who i use as my profile pic. So please don't take that too personally either.

 

[slotplayer]

ARD

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So it looks like the EU is the first to decide they can break the Northern Ireland protocol, definitely a case of double standards when they fumed about the UK government bringing in a law allowing them to change the protocol if needed.

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There's been a swift U-turn on this from the EU although I'm not convinced it was an 'error'.

It's a serious misstep from the EU and in a situation that was already pretty fractious, has only made things worse.

At a time when we need to start trying to build trust and co-operating, this is the last thing anyone needed.

Hopefully this isn't a sign of things to come but I'm not overly optimistic.

 

[dunover]

Even the remainer BBC have had their say, Ms Adler:

"Mistake," "misjudgement," "blunder."
These are just some of words EU insiders have been using privately to describe the European Commission's initial decision on Friday to suspend areas of the Brexit deal dealing with Northern Ireland, a part of its Covid vaccine row.
Although it then U-turned on those plans, critics say the damage was already done.
Brussels previously lectured the UK government about respecting the Irish Protocol - which was painfully and carefully drafted during Brexit negotiations.
Now the EU seemed quick to undermine the agreement.
Member state Ireland felt stung that it hadn't been consulted. This all adds to the impression of chaos surrounding the EU's vaccine rollout.
Brussels was already under fire from a growing number of EU countries for having been slow to sign vaccine contracts with pharmaceutical companies.
This "mishap" over the Irish Protocol, as Spain's Foreign Minister called it, hasn't exactly helped the commission's reputation.

I see the lunatics are still running the asylum, luckily not our bit of it....

 

[dunover]

Even the remainer BBC have had their say, Ms Adler:

"Mistake," "misjudgement," "blunder."
These are just some of words EU insiders have been using privately to describe the European Commission's initial decision on Friday to suspend areas of the Brexit deal dealing with Northern Ireland, a part of its Covid vaccine row.
Although it then U-turned on those plans, critics say the damage was already done.
Brussels previously lectured the UK government about respecting the Irish Protocol - which was painfully and carefully drafted during Brexit negotiations.
Now the EU seemed quick to undermine the agreement.
Member state Ireland felt stung that it hadn't been consulted. This all adds to the impression of chaos surrounding the EU's vaccine rollout.
Brussels was already under fire from a growing number of EU countries for having been slow to sign vaccine contracts with pharmaceutical companies.
This "mishap" over the Irish Protocol, as Spain's Foreign Minister called it, hasn't exactly helped the commission's reputation.

There's been a swift U-turn on this from the EU although I'm not convinced it was an 'error'.

It's a serious misstep from the EU and in a situation that was already pretty fractious, has only made things worse.

At a time when we need to start trying to build trust and co-operating, this is the last thing anyone needed.

Hopefully this isn't a sign of things to come but I'm not overly optimistic.

View attachment 149843

If the EU were a casino, it'd have a 1668/JAZ 'license'.

 

[dpp00]

Im afraid your goin to see a very different relationship in my own country of ireland and the eu goin forward,

now that were no longer of any use to the eu as leverage against the uk, and our government in there wisdom decided to spend 3 years

trash talking the uk (which in my opinion was disgraceful) they've burned there bridges there as well, Greece 2.0 anyone

 

[sufferinsilence]

This is fitting for the Brexit thread.

 

[mack341]

For some odd reason this thread is invisible to me, just looked for it in the rants section, nowhere to be seen on the first page of threads so had to use the search box - anyway some good brexit related news:

 

[TheAddict]

I'm probably responsible for 25% of the total Whole Nut sales in the UK.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So whilst making a bit more chocolate here is good news, it pales into significance compared to.....

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Burnett told the Observer that in addition to the 68% fall-off in exports, about 65%-75% of vehicles that had come over from the EU were going back empty because there were no goods for them to return with, due to hold-ups on the UK side, and because some UK companies had either temporarily or permanently halted exports to the EU. “I find it deeply frustrating and annoying that ministers have chosen not to listen to the industry and experts,” he said.

 

[mack341]

Sounds like some good news for the city

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Ahhh yes, trading in Swiss stocks on the London Stock Exchange to help make already very wealthy people even wealthier, exactly what the people in Mansfield who voted to leave the EU were hoping for.

 

[mack341]

Ahhh yes, trading in Swiss stocks on the London Stock Exchange to help make already very wealthy people even wealthier, exactly what the people in Mansfield who voted to leave the EU were hoping for.

Well as much as I'd like the people of mansfied to get what they hoped for, we do need a successful and prosperous city of london too, I'm sure they pay tax/charges, and help maintain investment in uk plc, so every little helps.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Again, it pales into insignificance when compared to the $1.6 TRILLION of assets that were moved out of London ahead of Brexit.

I recall mentioning this earlier in the thread but was told it was worth taking the economic hit because sovereignty and stuff.

Like with the chocolate thing, it's one step forward and ten steps back when it comes to Brexit.

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[bamberfishcake]

Sounds like some good news for the city

Nice to see some positives starting to come through.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

But the article makes it explicitly clear that the trading in Swiss stocks will only fill fill about 20% of the hole left by Brexit, so it's stretching it a bit to call it 'good news' or a 'positive'.

I mean, technically speaking if your entire house is on fire and the fire brigade come and put the fire out in one of the bedrooms, it's good news because less of your house is on fire than was the case before, but ultimately, your house is still on fire.

The information is right there in the article, we've swopped 6 billion of trading for 1.2 billion of trading.

-----------

The return of Swiss trading will be a small boon for London equity markets. Brexit caused more than 6 billion euros ($ 7.21 billion) of daily trading in EU stocks to leave London for the Amsterdam and Paris platforms on January 4 .

Before the EU ban, London platforms managed around 1.2 billion euros per day in Swiss stocks, or around 27% of the total volume, according to figures from Cboe Europe. The list of shares that can be traded includes names like Nestlé and Novartis.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

This is a perfect example of the cognitive dissonance and denial of objective reality, and indeed the rewriting of history, that many prominent Leavers are now engaging in.

2016 - Fears that trade will suffer are alarmist rubbish by Remainers who don't want us to Leave the EU.

2021 - Brexiters always said trade would suffer but it only shows we were right to Leave the EU.

 

[mack341]

Could be more good international trade news for uk plc:

"Both Ministers reiterated their commitment to long term India-UK partnership and agreed to deepen trade cooperation between the two countries through an Enhanced Trade Partnership (ETP). They also reviewed progress in removing market access barriers on both sides

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Just so we're clear, these are preliminary talks that are taking place later this year ('likely sometime in 2021' is the best we can get), as a precursor to starting to negotiate an Enhanced Trade Partnership, which from there might lead to a Free Trade Agreement.

I'm sure the UK fishing fleets that are currently going bankrupt will be delighted at the prospect of potentially being able to send their langoustines 5000 miles to India, at some indeterminate point in the future. (Hopefully we'll have invented teleportation by then too, since otherwise they'll all be dead by the time they get there.)

It's not exactly the cornucopia of promised amazing trade deals we'd be signing up within weeks of leaving the EU, is it?

Also, don't forget that 5000 miles thing either. At the risk of stating the obvious, trading with the EU, comprised of some of the richest nations in the world, all a short ferry trip or a Eurotunnel away, is quite a different proposition to trading with a developing nation 5000 miles away.

2016 - THE WORLD WILL BE OUR OYSTER
2021 - LATER THIS YEAR WE'LL START TALKING TO INDIA ABOUT MAYBE DOING SOMETHING IN THE FUTURE

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[ChopleyIOM]

In the meantime, this is what's happening right now.

These people don't care about potential free trade agreements with India in two or three or five years time.

They're going bankrupt now, they'll be finished within a few weeks or months. British businesses, British jobs, lost to Brexit.

Not a UK specific rule. Not a ban on UK imports specifically. Just another of these third country rules that we were hoping we would be able to avoid but didn't manage.

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[mack341]

In the meantime, this is what's happening right now.

These people don't care about potential free trade agreements with India in two or three or five years time.

They're going bankrupt now, they'll be finished within a few weeks or months. British businesses, British jobs, lost to Brexit.

Not a UK specific rule. Not a ban on UK imports specifically. Just another of these third country rules that we were hoping we would be able to avoid but didn't manage.

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View attachment 150306

"However, last week, the Commission gave us sight of instructions they had sent to all Member States on 3 February stating that any imports into the EU from the UK of Live Bivalve Molluscs for purification from Class B waters, such as the sea around Wales and the South West of England, are not permitted

It is in the EU’s interests to restore this trade; many businesses in the EU have invested in depuration equipment and are configured around managing the export of molluscs from Class B waters."

Sounds more like the EU is shooting it's citizens and businesses in the foot again in order just to be awkward; no brexit deal could ever fully anticipate either the EU's tricks/bad faith or rule changes.

edit: I know it's not the best thread, but wonder why this doesn't show up in the latest posts or even rant thread ??

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Shows up for me in the list as normal.

Have you hit the 'Unwatch' button or something?

 

[mack341]

Shows up for me in the list as normal.

Have you hit the 'Unwatch' button or something?

View attachment 150308

View attachment 150307

Just checked but the unwatch option is still there, must just be a forum quirk that only affects me!

 

[ChopleyIOM]

"However, last week, the Commission gave us sight of instructions they had sent to all Member States on 3 February stating that any imports into the EU from the UK of Live Bivalve Molluscs for purification from Class B waters, such as the sea around Wales and the South West of England, are not permitted

It is in the EU’s interests to restore this trade; many businesses in the EU have invested in depuration equipment and are configured around managing the export of molluscs from Class B waters."

Sounds more like the EU is shooting it's citizens and businesses in the foot again in order just to be awkward; no brexit deal could ever fully anticipate either the EU's tricks/bad faith or rule changes.

I don't deny the EU are being arses about this in some regards mack, the shit they threatened to pull with the vaccines a couple of weeks ago was a proper dick move. (Albeit they withdrew the idea very quickly and apologised.)

And I cannot stress this enough, I am not and never have been a massive and/or uncritical fan of the EU, I've said as much in this very thread on multiple occasions.

However I do think, and have advocated for, it being 'the least worst option' available to us and that we're better off being a member and exerting power and influence and trying to change it from within, rather than than stamping off in a huff and then moaning about things we have no control over as a third country. (Which is what we opted to become.)

And that's what we're finding out the hard way now, that as a third country, who elected to leave the club, however flawed the club may be, we basically have bugger all influence in how the club runs its affairs, and all we can do is write impotent letters moaning about things.

In the act of allegedly taking back control, we are now having to essentially write letters to the EU asking for things over which we have no control.