Brexit - whats the difference.....

See above: deluded.

I'm not going to do research for you its all out there. I suggest you start with what people were saying before and closer to the vote.
heres a few to get you started:

"There will be no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside"
David Davis
10 October 2016

"The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want"
Michael Gove
9 April 2016

"Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards"
John Redwood
July 17 2016

"The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history"
Liam Fox
20 July 2017

No mention of appeasing to the confirmed racist Donald Trump sell off the NHS and lower our food standards but if you can find that quote feel free to post it.
 
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See above: deluded.

I'm not going to do research for you its all out there. I suggest you start with what people were saying before the vote.
heres a few to get you started:

"There will be no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside"
David Davis
10 October 2016

"The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want"
Michael Gove
9 April 2016

"Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards"
John Redwood
July 17 2016

"The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history"
Liam Fox
20 July 2017

No mention of appeasing to the confirmed racist Donald Trump sell off the NHS and lower our food standards but if you can find that quote feel free to post it.
Do you only have quotes from brexiters not found any remainers ones or do they not interest you
 
"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled."

If you still think brexit is a good idea now after everything that has happened and that will happen you're deluded.

The first part is wise and very much applies to the remainer position. They view the EU as a very good thing for the average european person when it isn't, you could cut it's activity/meddling down by 90%, leaving 10% of it's size and scope and Europeans would be no worse off.

Because we wisely kept the pound leaving is much more feasible, the other member states who gave up their currencies and central banks will probably find it impossible.

I wonder if remainer mp's advocate ditching the pound to join the euro, if they're being consistent and principled that our best future lays with the EU they should, I wonder how popular would that be with the public? [including those that voted remain]

Can any remainers explain why we didn't join the euro considering all the other members did? @09237653 you seem a keen remainer, would you like to ditch sterling? If not why not?
 
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Do you only have quotes from brexiters not found any remainers ones or do they not interest you

Funny that, I find it really hard to find remain quotes that are destroyed as easily as brexiteer quotes, feel free to enlighten me though?

A few more choice quotes to recall from the Brexiteer leaders in the meantime though:

1) Coming to a free trade agreement with the EU should be "one of the easiest in human history.' Liam Fox, July 2017
10:27 am - 14 Nov 2018

2) 'In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way.' Nigel Farage, May 2016.

3) “Not partial membership of the European Union, associate membership of the European Union, or anything that leaves us half-in, half-out.' Theresa May, Jan 2017, setting out her vision for Brexit.

4) “Brexit was a war. We won.” Arron Banks, April 2017, recalling his purchase of the referendum result

5) “It was me that got us into this mess, I will get us out of it.” Theresa May, June 2017, to her troops after destroying the Tory majority.

6) 'The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want.' Michael Gove, April 2016

7) 'Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards.' John Redwood, July 2016

8) 'What we’ve got to do as a government & as a parliamentary party is show we are bigger than the sum of our parts. If we take a bit more of that approach, a bit more unity of purpose, we’ll get a great result out of Brexit. We’ll also unite the country.' Dominic Raab, June 2018

9) 'I will be advocating Vote Leave because I want a better deal for the people of this country, to save them money and to take control.' Boris Johnson, Feb 2016

10) 'It is like threading the eye of a needle. If you have a good eye and a steady hand, it is easy enough,' David Davis, December 2016, dismissing fears a Brexit deal might be difficult

11) 'Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market,' Daniel Hannan, May 2015

12) 'There is no reason why the UK’s only land border should be any less open after Brexit than it is today.” Theresa Villiers, April 2016, on the Irish issue

13) 'If we Vote Leave we will be able to stop handing over so much money to the EU and we would be able to spend our money on priorities here in the UK like abolishing prescription charges”. Gisela Stuart, April 2016

14) “Without our EU budget contributions, we could give everyone a 60 per cent council tax cut.” Daniel Hannan, September 2015

15) “If we vote to leave then I think the union will be stronger.' Michael Gove, May 2016

16) 'Article 50 has to be invoked now so that we negotiate an exit from European Union,' Jeremy Corbyn, Brexiteer fifth columnist in Remain camp, June 2016 day after the vote (h/t @RobSkilbeck)

17) ‘The authority of EU law in this country has ended forever … We are not leaving only to return to the jurisdiction of the ECJ. That’s not going to happen’ Theresa May, October 2016

18) ‘Within 2 years, before negotiation with the EU is likely to be complete, & therefore before anything material has changed, we can negotiate a free trade area massively larger than the EU. The new trade agreements will come into force at point of exit.’ David Davis, July 2016

19) ‘I believe that we can get a free trade and customs agreement concluded before March 2019’. David Davis, January 2017

20) ‘The idea that we’ll do a transitional arrangement where you’re still in, paying money, still with free movement of people – that we’ll do the long-term deal in slow motion … That is plainly not what we’re after.’ David Davis, March 2016

21) ‘The Conservative party will ensure that we fulfil our duty in ensuring that stability, so that we can all, as one country go forward together.’ Theresa May, 2017

22) 'Trade relations with the EU could be sorted out in 'an afternoon over a cup of coffee,' Gerard Batten, UKIP Brexit spokesman, February 2017

23) 'It will be easy to negotiate a trade deal,' Paul Nutall, UKIP leader, Jan 2017

24) Brexit 'might even mean that there is less space for anger in our politics.' Douglas Carswell, UKIP MP, March 2017

25) 'I am confident that Theresa May and her team can deliver an arrangement that suits both the UK and the members of the EU.' Iain Duncan Smith, March 2017

26) 'There are good grounds for a new government team to offer the public a voice on what the deal looks like. And we obviously wouldn’t oppose that... I think there’s a strong democratic case for it.' Dominic Cummings, Vote Leave campaign director, Jan 2016

27) 'If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy”. David Davis, 2012, discussing the EU

28) 'While parents worried about childcare, getting the kids to school, balancing work and family life - we were banging on about Europe.' David Cameron, 2006

29) 'The whole issue of the Irish border has been wholly exaggerated...this is all being blown up out of all proportion,' @OwenPaterson, October 2017
 
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Funny that, I find it really hard to find remain quotes that are destroyed as easily as brexiteer quotes, feel free to enlighten me though?
Course you do, as a remainer if by some chance we needed to leave this unleavable club how would you actually leave it, is there a way to leave the EU or are the members of this club so entwined that it is basically impossible and what we are now, is stuck in a club with no way out of? Surely if countries want to leave they should be allowed to and not dictated to by the EU and its "this is the only deal and we won't reopen it".

What gives the EU the right to decide whether it is reopened or not they should not dictate to us that they will not renegotiate they do not control us and tell us what to do the agreement should be reopened by either side.
 
Course you do, as a remainer if by some chance we needed to leave this unleavable club how would you actually leave it, is there a way to leave the EU or are the members of this club so entwined that it is basically impossible and what we are now, is stuck in a club with no way out of? Surely if countries want to leave they should be allowed to and not dictated to by the EU and its "this is the only deal and we won't reopen it".

What gives the EU the right to decide whether it is reopened or not they should not dictate to us that they will not renegotiate they do not control us and tell us what to do the agreement should be reopened by either side.

With all due respect but what the EU is doing is executing an exit of a member according to the provisions of the EU treaty, something the UK help draft and had quite an influence on. Maybe reading it will enlighten you a little.

So you continuously trying to push this all to the "bad EU" simply doesn't wash! :rolleyes:

EDIT: The UK negotiators are the party that is trying to get special treatment whereas the treaty is very clear on each paragraph.
 
With all due respect but what the EU is doing is executing an exit of a member according to provisions of the EU treaty, something the UK hep draft and had quite an influence on. Maybe reading it will enlighten you a little.

So pushing this all to the "bad EU" simply doesn't wash! :rolleyes:

Phew...i thought you'd forgotten how to roll!:p
 
With all due respect but what the EU is doing is executing an exit of a member according to the provisions of the EU treaty, something the UK help draft and had quite an influence on. Maybe reading it will enlighten you a little.

So pushing this all to the "bad EU" simply doesn't wash! :rolleyes:

The UK negotiators are the party that is trying to get special treatment whereas the treaty is very clear on each paragraph.
Can you not answer the question HOW DO YOU ACTUALLY LEAVE IF YOU WANT TO
 
If you leave without a deal is the very next day we'll be asking them for a deal, and the very first things required at a minimum will be the Irish backstop and the 39 billion payment, going to be a great deal on offer once thay hold all the cards and we only have a joker.
 
I would have left the day of the result so whose whining the only whiners are the remainers who don't like not getting their way,

Well I'm happy that EU is protecting its interests. This isn't a charity that gives ex-members whatever they need. You need us way more than we need you. You wanted to be alone...be alone for all I care.
 
Well I'm happy that EU is protecting its interests. This isn't a charity that gives ex-members whatever they need. You need us way more than we need you. You wanted to be alone...be alone for all I care.
See how rude the EU and it's members are "we don't need you" "be all for all I care" rude and abusive. Why would we want to be in a club like that.
 
See how rude the EU and it's members are "we don't need you" "be all for all I care" rude and abusive. Why would we want to be in a club like that.

All you've been doing is talking shit about EU. How it's dictatorship and whatever. You created the problem...you fix it for yourself. EU's stance is pretty clear.
 
52:48 vote, the media may make you believe we all wanted it 'will of the people' but a lot of us certainly do not, in fact if (when?) we go to a second ref it'll likely be a remain win, now at least some of the facts are out there.
Only the most cultish conned few are left now.
 
52:48 vote, the media may make you believe we all wanted it 'will of the people' but a lot of us certainly do not, in fact if (when?) we go to a second ref it'll likely be a remain win now at least some of the facts are out there.
Absolute rubbish the people of this country do not like being told to vote again because we got the first one wrong (ahem Ireland) the result would be a huge increase for leave as even some remainers won't stand for a democratic vote being challenged because the result wasn't right..
Any country that wants to leave a "club" should that includes Scotland, Wales NI or whoever no country should be told it has to stay in a union it's citizens don't want to be part of.
 
Absolute rubbish the people of this country do not like being told to vote again because we got the first one wrong (ahem Ireland) the result would be a huge increase for leave as even some remainers won't stand for a democratic vote being challenged because the result wasn't right..
Any country that wants to leave a "club" should that includes Scotland, Wales NI or whoever no country should be told it has to stay in a union it's citizens don't want to be part of.

Just stop blaming the EU. You can leave anytime you want. Your country is the problem...not the EU. I'd be happy if UK remains in EU but whatever. Do whatever you want.
 
One more time. The UK was a major part of setting up the treaty and thus Art. 50.

Do at least some of the most basic reading to inform yourselves, although you don't seem to be interested in the truth!
Don't patronise me typical remainer thinking they are above someone who voted Brexit. Why are all remainers rude, snotty and above themselves?
 
Don't patronise me typical remainer thinking they are above someone who voted Brexit. Why are all remainers rude, snotty and above themselves?

I am certainly not patronising you. Funny that you bring up this argument rather often!

FYI, I do not live in an EU country.

I was merely pointing out to you that your country played a major part in setting up the rules and is now saying "oh, but we don't want to follow those rules, they shouldn't apply to us". :rolleyes:
 
Don't patronise me typical remainer thinking they are above someone who voted Brexit. Why are all remainers rude, snotty and above themselves?

"The doom monger of fear and dread is back. Chopley stop being so miserable and defeatist and be have some faith, you will still be spouting the same rubbish well after a successful no deal."

"Oh here he is Juncker's personal arse licker knew you would be on to back up goatie you remainers all stick together/"

Enjoy your successful no deal then.
 
Ahhh the old conundrum of who needs who more. I'll ask a question- who is going to make up the shortfall of our membership fee? We are one of the top net contributors. Basic economics says it has got to be made up somewhere.

That is unless they're going to just print more? Either way, it won't be those in Brussels that take the hit.
 
Absolute rubbish the people of this country do not like being told to vote again because we got the first one wrong (ahem Ireland) the result would be a huge increase for leave as even some remainers won't stand for a democratic vote being challenged because the result wasn't right..
Any country that wants to leave a "club" should that includes Scotland, Wales NI or whoever no country should be told it has to stay in a union it's citizens don't want to be part of.

Are you being serious.

The reason leave voters are panicking and going on so much about a 2nd referendum is because they know damn well that if there is one remain will win it.

It is there own fault but a lot of people that would have voted remain never bothered voting as they thought result would be a foregone conclusion. Whereas just about everyone that wanted to leave voted. Another referendum and most would vote knowing damn well what a mess this country is going to be in soon.

That's why it was only about 70% of people that voted. Whereas in Scotland's independence it was highest ever turnout for any UK based election of 92% as people knew damn well they had to get out and vote No or the leave would win. The EU referendum a lot of people just thought it was a foregone conclusion the vote would be remain.

So you can argue all you want but seriously how you can actually say and maybe even believe that leave would get even higher vote beats me. In fact it is clear that the reason there is so much protest against 2nd referendum is because they know damn well they will lose. You can bang on about democratic rights etc. but it was never actually at the time a legal vote. It was an opinion vote the government just then acted on what the majority had voted. So democratically the vote should go back to people saying it is a legally binding vote so make your choice. And if you were so damned sure you would win you would happily have another vote to end all the doubters. And yet you are against it as you know you will lose. So don't try and state how much more of a majority you will have as it is total crap. Even the opinion polls state remain would most likely win.
 
Oh the Scottish independence enigma. The one where the same people who wanted greater devolution of powers from a central governing force actually want less devolved powers and to be run from a different centralised governing force.

Go figure.
 
Are you being serious.

The reason leave voters are panicking and going on so much about a 2nd referendum is because they know damn well that if there is one remain will win it.

It is there own fault but a lot of people that would have voted remain never bothered voting as they thought result would be a foregone conclusion. Whereas just about everyone that wanted to leave voted. Another referendum and most would vote knowing damn well what a mess this country is going to be in soon.

That's why it was only about 70% of people that voted. Whereas in Scotland's independence it was highest ever turnout for any UK based election of 92% as people knew damn well they had to get out and vote No or the leave would win. The EU referendum a lot of people just thought it was a foregone conclusion the vote would be remain.

So you can argue all you want but seriously how you can actually say and maybe even believe that leave would get even higher vote beats me. In fact it is clear that the reason there is so much protest against 2nd referendum is because they know damn well they will lose. You can bang on about democratic rights etc. but it was never actually at the time a legal vote. It was an opinion vote the government just then acted on what the majority had voted. So democratically the vote should go back to people saying it is a legally binding vote so make your choice. And if you were so damned sure you would win you would happily have another vote to end all the doubters. And yet you are against it as you know you will lose. So don't try and state how much more of a majority you will have as it is total crap. Even the opinion polls state remain would most likely win.
Talking bollocks leave vote would increase significantly and no amount of remainer waffle will change that the British public will not stand for their vote being changed because some people think it was the wrong decision.
 
Oh the Scottish independence enigma. The one where the same people who wanted greater devolution of powers from a central governing force actually want less devolved powers and to be run from a different centralised governing force.

Go figure.
Somehow Scottish people think that power from Westminster is different to power from the EU if Scotland wants to leave UK then they can but they will not be allowed into the EU no matter how much nonsense Sturgeon spouts plus Scotland has 300 years of rules to unpick the UK has a lot less to unpick the EU.
 
Ahhh the old conundrum of who needs who more. I'll ask a question- who is going to make up the shortfall of our membership fee? We are one of the top net contributors. Basic economics says it has got to be made up somewhere.

That is unless they're going to just print more? Either way, it won't be those in Brussels that take the hit.

Your net contribution is IIRC around EUR10 billion (the EU's spending on the UK's private sector not deducted). The EU GDP in 2018 was EU18.8 trillion.

I think replacing those few billion won't be that big of a headache, it actually sounds more like small change. :rolleyes:
 
Talking bollocks leave vote would increase significantly and no amount of remainer waffle will change that the British public will not stand for their vote being changed because some people think it was the wrong decision.

Saw your recent posts on last couple of pages and the way you are talking about what remain voters are saying. You are coming across worse than any of them.

And it is not total bollocks what i am saying. You know damn well leave would lose. That is why you are getting yourself onto such a tizzy and posting so much crap of late. And this crap about people would vote leave because they don't like their democratic rights getting overruled. It was never an official vote in the first place. So wheres the democratic rights. Yet another leave voter that hasn't got a clue. Talk about turkeys voting for christmas.

And fact is whether you can grasp it which it is clear you can not people know how fucked this country will be by leaving especially with an idiot like Boris in charge so many would now vote remain knowing what a mess we will be in. But you keep trying to convince yourself otherwise if you must lol.

Either that or you are seriously deluded lol. Whatever one i will leave you to your fantasy land and your serious one sided opinions and keep out of this thread. Have a lovely weekend:thumbsup:
 
Your net contribution is IIRC around EUR10 billion. The EU GDP in 2018 was EU18.8 trillion. So

I think replacing those few billion won't be that big of a headache, it actually sounds more like small change. :rolleyes:
If you are not in the EU why do you interfere in a process that is not your concern, you are not in the EU or the UK so why does it bother you so much?
 
Saw your recent posts on last couple of pages and the way you are talking about what remain voters are saying. You are coming across worse than any of them.

And it is not total bollocks what i am saying. You know damn well leave would lose. That is why you are getting yourself onto such a tizzy and posting so much crap of late.

Either that or you are seriously deluded lol. Whatever one i will leave you to your fantasy land and your serious one sided opinions and keep out of this thread. Have a lovely weekend:thumbsup:
They would not lose just like all the polls said remain would win in 2016 and they didn't they lost by over a million votes you just can't accept the UK is a leave country and always will be.
 
Can people leave a little 'Leave' or 'Remain' at the end of their comments, I'm still unsure who's who :eek2:

I am personally a could not give a fuck either way sort of guy tho pressed i would go remain after looking at all the facts .

But i give opinions based on fact and careful consideration. I don't just post crap and try to back it up with more crap lol. :rolleyes:
 
If you are not in the EU why do you interfere in a process that is not your concern, you are not in the EU or the UK so why does it bother you so much?

Can you please show me where I "interfered in a process"? I surely had no say in you leaving or not, let alone "superpowers" to interfere!
111481
 
I am personally a could not give a fuck either way sort of guy tho pressed i would go remain after looking at all the facts .

But i give opinions based on fact and careful consideration. I don't just post crap and try to back it up with more crap lol. :rolleyes:
I agree

- Leaver
 
Can you please show me where I "interfered in a process"? I surely had no say in you leaving or not, let alone "superpowers" to interfere! View attachment 111481

Interfering in the UK, interfering in the USA with Trump, trying to overthrow King Jong with N Korea:

Took our eyes off the ball and missed the Deep State: Harry's the real threat to national sovereignty :eek2:
 
Can you not answer the question HOW DO YOU ACTUALLY LEAVE IF YOU WANT TO
The EU is the fault for having the ridiculous article 50 no country can just leave anytime they want.

There's nothing unclear about the process by which a member state may leave the EU.

1. The UK decided to join the EU with the European Communities Act 1972.
2. The EU treaties are binding agreements between EU member states and all members are bound by the treaties under international law.
3. Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union (TEU) sets out the process by which a member state may leave the EU.

What some people seem to forget, is that leaving the EU is governed by EU law (esp. Art 50). Not the law of a member state wanting to leave. The process is clear. Anything else is just national politicking.

The member state can try to negotiate a withdrawal agreement. If it fails to do so, the treaties cease to apply to that member state after 2 years of the Art. 50 notification (unless extension is given).

The UK created the situation for themselves. Not the EU. It's not going like you wanted? Boo fucking hoo. The UK was part of creating these exact rules and is bound by them. Deal with it.
 
There's nothing unclear about the process by which a member state may leave the EU.

1. The UK decided to join the EU with the European Communities Act 1972.
2. The EU treaties are binding agreements between EU member states and all members are bound by the treaties under international law.
3. Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union (TEU) sets out the process by which a member state may leave the EU.

What some people seem to forget, is that leaving the EU is governed by EU law (esp. Art 50). Not the law of a member state wanting to leave. The process is clear. Anything else is just national politicking.

The member state can try to negotiate a withdrawal agreement. If it fails to do so, the treaties cease to apply to that member state after 2 years of the Art. 50 notification (unless extension is given).

The UK created the situation for themselves. Not the EU. It's not going like you wanted? Boo fucking hoo. The UK was part of creating these exact rules and is bound by them. Deal with it.
Stop the "deal with it" crap it's not big and it's not clever. You have just proved my point you cannot just leave this club it is a dictatorship and no fancy comments like "deal with it" dismiss the proof.

When Britain joined the EC it was just a common market not for laws and rules against nations.
 
Stop the "deal with it" crap it's not big and it's not clever. You have just proved my point you cannot just leave this club it is a dictatorship and no fancy comments like "deal with it" dismiss the proof.

When Britain joined the EC it was just a common market not for laws and rules against nations.

It really doesn't matter what anyone tries to tell you? Just same old dictatorship crap page after page. What's so hard to understand? You wanted out, you'll get out. How it goes is up to you.
 
It really doesn't matter what anyone tries to tell you? Just same old dictatorship crap page after page. What's so hard to understand? You wanted out, you'll get out. How it goes is up to you.
You really don't get it do you if remainers accepted the result instead of keep messing up parliament we would be out, it's remainers who have stopped us leaving time and time again and now they want The Queen to intervene.
 
You really don't get it do you if remainers accepted the result instead of keep messing up parliament we would be out, it's remainers who have stopped us leaving time and time again and now they want The Queen to intervene.

Remainers seem to conveniently gloss over the point that most leavers actually want us to, you know, leave. Not prevaricate around the issue.

They tell us to leave if we want to leave but it's not us, the mere pleb, that has any control over this. We've seen parliament repeatedly try and paralyse the process. So you can understand the frustrations of leavers. All the leavers did was vote one way in a bi modal vote. It was then up to the government to implement this decision as they promised they would pre referendum. Easy to promise when their hubris assumed an easy remain win. They didn't get the result they wanted so maybe they should deal with it rather than paralysing the whole process just because it didn't fall the way they assumed it would.

As for remainers, I've seen it said that the EU are fed up of us and might not grant us another extension. To that I say 'good, kick us out then'. The thing is they haven't so far and neither will they. It's just not in their interest for us to actually leave. Whether remainers want to admit it or not, we're one of the largest economies of the EU.

I'd bet a year's wages that the EU would grant extensions ad infinitum if it meant us not leaving.
 
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I'll also add that had the governments of the time given us referenda with regards to the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties etc we might not have even ended up in this situation, as the general public would have felt more engaged with the decision making along the way.

Say what you like about Farage but he saw this debacle coming years and years ago.
 
I'll also add that had the governments of the time given us referenda with regards to the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties etc we might not have even ended up in this situation, as the general public would have felt more engaged with the decision making along the way.

Say what you like about Farage but he saw this debacle coming years and years ago.
The remainers do not want us to have a vote apparently we are too stupid to vote the correct way and us stupid Brexiters are not capable of making an informed decision so the vote should be dismissed as we didn't understand what we were voting for. Wrong remainers we knew exactly what we were voting for and that was to leave the EU by whatever manner, deal, no deal, whatever.
 

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