Brexit - whats the difference.....

[sledge13]

I said back in 2016 Labour would block any brexit, just down the road we have a 70% leave area with Yvette Cooper as Mp, who is behind the Benn bill to block no deal brexit, in otherwords the real brexit.

Loads of Labour mps ignoring the people who voted them in, truly undemocratic traitors.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Loads of Labour mps ignoring the people who voted them in, truly undemocratic traitors.

It is not an MP's job or duty to slavishly implement what their constituents say they want them to do, in fact, that's literally NOT their job. I've linked the official duties of MPs to this thread more than once already.

If a sufficient number of people don't like what Yvette Cooper has done, she'll get voted out at the next election, and she will have paid for her principles with her job.

That's UK democracy in action, the stuff that Brexity folks claim to treasure so much.

 

[goatwack]

Looks like Boris wants to die in that ditch on his lonesome

PM: I will not negotiate a delay with EU

 

[steveh35]

Looks like Boris wants to die in that ditch on his lonesome

PM: I will not negotiate a delay with EU

We should send Chopley with the letter he can then kiss Juncker's arse like he dreams of.

 

[dunover]

It is not an MP's job or duty to slavishly implement what their constituents say they want them to do, in fact, that's literally NOT their job. I've linked the official duties of MPs to this thread more than once already.

If a sufficient number of people don't like what Yvette Cooper has done, she'll get voted out at the next election, and she will have paid for her principles with her job.

That's UK democracy in action, the stuff that Brexity folks claim to treasure so much.

No, it's a public servant refusing to carry out an instruction the taxpayer is paying her to execute. So her individual view overrides 70% of her constituents? I think Hitler may have called that 'democracy in action' but I bloody wouldn't.

 

[sledge13]

Spot on Dunover, Chopley spouted the worst yet in that post...

 

[ChopleyIOM]

No, it's a public servant refusing to carry out an instruction the taxpayer is paying her to execute. So her individual view overrides 70% of her constituents? I think Hitler may have called that 'democracy in action' but I bloody wouldn't.

So if 70% of constituents somewhere in the UK expressed the view that rape should be legalised, it's their MP's duty to try and make that happen?

 

[steveh35]

No, it's a public servant refusing to carry out an instruction the taxpayer is paying her to execute. So her individual view overrides 70% of her constituents? I think Hitler may have called that 'democracy in action' but I bloody wouldn't.

You could be as arrogant as Jess Phillips who said a few weeks ago it didn't matter what her constituents think as she would never be voted out anyway and sadly she is right the Brum voters will vote her in again and again.

 

[steveh35]

So if 70% of constituents somewhere in the UK expressed the view that rape should be legalised, it's their MPs duty to try and make that happen?

If 70% of constituents think that why would you be there MP? If 70% of constituents think Brexit is right and you don't why are you representing them? Resign!

 

[steveh35]

Whatever you think of Caroline Flint she has voted for what her constituents asked for in Don Valley in my constituency of Doncaster Central Rosie Winterton conveniently doesn't get to vote as she is deputy speaker which I think it wrong and Ed Miliband in Doncaster North ignoring his constituents and voting against Brexit.

In the next General Election Flint will get a huge majority Miliband will be lucky to keep his seat.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Why can't we establish the basic principle here of what an MP's job is? We've done this before but let's go at it one more time.

The voters/constituents don't 'tell their MP what to do', they elect them to parliament through a democratic mandate, and then said MP is duty-bound to act in what they feel is in the best interest of both the country, and their constituents.

Therefore if an MP believes that what their constituents have said they want them to do is wrong, or indeed batshit crazy, it is their job and indeed their sworn duty to try and not make it happen.

 

[goatwack]

Moral ambiguity doesn't come into it though, this was a cut & dried Referendum result that the country voted in favour of leaving!

If however they want to veto their constituents' wishes on whether local lollipop ladies should be removed I think we can agree that's a different kettle of fish

 

[Mr_Slot5]

The fact of the matter is, when all boiled down, the majority voted for Brexit. Not Brexit in name only, not remain, not for parliament to frustrate the issue for 3 years...but to leave the EU.

We had a deal presented to us by May which was rightly rejected. Now Boris has enabled a tweak of this deal to assuage some of the concerns with May's deal and yet again we see the same tired old faces trying to frustrate the issue.

The Letwin bill was nothing to do with ensuring we don't leave with no deal, it was in direct response to it looking like Boris's deal would pass...it was nothing but another throw of the remainer dice to try to cancel Brexit. Boris has never wanted a no deal Brexit.

The massive opinion poll the other day showed that the majority of people wanted this deal done...there will be massive frustration now amongst everyone bar the ultra remainers who are starting to disenfranchise everybody else.

Going forward, I'm not sure what happens now but I would guess the Tories will be in landslide territory in an upcoming GE. Labour have dug their own grave as far as the electorate are concerned and the Lib Dems are, at the moment, a one issue party (revoking article 50).

 

[paul7388]

An MP is elected to put their constituents best interests first.

And by not voting for a crap deal that has not even had the details finalized and checked if they are legal then that is what they are doing. The deal represented did not even have an analysis to how badly it could affect the country.

So anyone that claims to care about their country would not vote for a deal until all details are sorted.

 

[dunover]

Can we not have a military coup to sort it out?

 

[goatwack]

"His face has taken a number of hits. This is concerning"

 

[dunover]

"His face has taken a number of hits. This is concerning"

Well Guy Fawkes night is in a couple of weeks...…..

 

[Gaz237]

Just to add. That Tosser, Letwin, who has stuck the knife in and halted leave(for now).

He was the one who came up with the idea of the Poll Tax, and that went well. Self serving twat. Bet him and Bercow are pissing themselves in the bar now.

@ChopleyIOM For someone who I thought was level headed, your posts regarding Brexit are becoming increasingly Bizarre. Bringing rape into the equation is pitiful.

 

[vorcirion]

Can we not have a military coup to sort it out?

Yes go for it! Maybe after that there will be fewer leavers and remainers will win.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

@ChopleyIOM For someone who I thought was level headed, your posts regarding Brexit are becoming increasingly Bizarre. Bringing rape into the equation is pitiful.

I'm merely exploring the logical conclusion of the argument that:

'Constituents expressed a majority preference for 'Thing X', therefore that constituency's MP should endeavour to make 'Thing X' happen'.

 

[steveh35]

I'm merely exploring the logical conclusion of the argument that:

'Constituents expressed a majority preference for 'Thing X', therefore that constituency's MP should endeavour to make 'Thing X' happen'.

If an MP doesn't do what the constituents want they want be the MP for very long will they?

Of course an MP has to abide by their constituents or they are committing political suicide.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Of course an MP has to abide by their constituents or they are committing political suicide.

No, they really don't, they're not even supposed to, it's literally in their job description.

The fact that some of these MPs are committing 'political suicide' over Brexit tells you that they're doing their jobs properly and acting on principle, rather than naked self interest.

 

[goatwack]

Look at the mob in London today, whooping like demented hyenas at today's result. Calling for that pesky second morally-righteous referendum.

Of course we'll know with 100% certainty that they'll wholeheartedly accept and respect that vote

We can then just write off the first one, and file it under 'Forgive them, for they know not what they do'

 

[dunover]

No, they really don't, they're not even supposed to, it's literally in their job description.

The fact that some of these MPs are committing 'political suicide' over Brexit tells you that they're doing their jobs properly and acting on principle, rather than naked self interest.

As opposed to being obstructive, self-seeking career politicians with their own agenda?

 

[steveh35]

No, they really don't, they're not even supposed to, it's literally in their job description.

The fact that some of these MPs are committing 'political suicide' over Brexit tells you that they're doing their jobs properly and acting on principle, rather than naked self interest.

Are you for real you think that an MP will just ignore the people who put them into their job, you are losing the plot Chopley big style.

 

[mack341]

Didn't some of these remainer MPs not say they would honour the leave result prior to the last general election, even maybe mrs balls

"Labour MPs should respect the result of the EU referendum even if the outcome is a hard Brexit, according to Yvette Cooper, MP for Pontefract and Castleford. She was speaking at the Mile End Institute, Queen Mary University of London "

Ms Cooper said she is concerned that the UK may “become a country that no longer respects democratic values” if MPs work to frustrate the result of the referendum.

Ms Cooper said:

“We didn’t go into the referendum saying ‘I want you to vote remain but to be honest no matter how you vote I’m going to ignore you’. It was fought in good faith and nobody said ‘well you know what, I’m just not going to respect the result afterwards' – that’s the kind of thing that Donald Trump says.”

She added: “I don’t see how I could go out there and say ‘it’s so important to stand up for democratic votes’ and then say ‘but there’s this democratic vote we just had, that I never said I wasn’t going to respect, and I’m not going to respect it now.’

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You couldn't make this up, I bet most of the remainers were going around saying the same sort of thing and then doing this 360 duplicitous turn, probably on instruction by their lordship, toxic tony.

 

[09237653]

Salty Brexiteer tears...bring on a second referendum with actually defined choices this time.

And before you all scream '17.4 million !!!11!!!11!!' dont worry all 17.4 million will have the chance to vote again, That's democracy.

 

[steveh35]

Salty Brexiteer tears...bring on a second referendum with actually defined choices this time.

And before you all scream '17.4 million !!!11!!!11!!' dont worry all 17.4 million will have the chance to vote again, That's democracy.

Why do we need to vote again you want to do the hokey cokey every 3 years, you cannot vote again until the referendum result of the previous one has been implemented.

It is not democracy to ignore the first vote and then say hey let's have another and ignore the first.

 

[09237653]

Why do we need to vote again you want to do the hokey cokey every 3 years, you cannot vote again until the referendum result of the previous one has been implemented.

It is not democracy to ignore the first vote and then say hey let's have another and ignore the first.

A badly defined 'advisory vote' won on countless lies with online interference from sketchy companies like Cambridge analytica and people like Arron Banks behind it , Kenya annulled a vote after it was found that CA had interfered.

 

[steveh35]

A badly defined 'advisory vote' won on countless lies with online interference from sketchy companies like Cambridge analytica and people like Arron Banks behind it , Kenya annulled a vote after it was found that CA had interfered.

You think I read Cambridge Analytica or listened to Aaron Banks before I voted I did not I have been waiting to vote on the EU for 30 years, the only lies are from the remainers who refuse to accept the result and the will of the people. You think most people in Doncaster or Sunderland or Lincoln etc know what Cambridge Analytica is?

 

[09237653]

You think I read Cambridge Analytica or listened to Aaron Banks before I voted I did not I have been waiting to vote on the EU for 30 years, the only lies are from the remainers who refuse to accept the result and the will of the people. You think most people in Doncaster or Sunderland or Lincoln etc know what Cambridge Analytica is?

They dont even need to know what it is, but it still may well have manipulated what they saw on facebook.

 

[steveh35]

They dont even need to know what it is, but it still may well have manipulated what they saw on facebook.

What a load of b*llocks you think people are so easily influenced maybe you have been by Juncker & his mates in Brussels.

 

[cncas2123]

Is it my imagination or are MPs generally elected during a general election, and each party puts forward a manifesto which their candidate will stand on? I believe both the conservatives and labour put forward a manifesto in the last election saying they will carry out the people’s will and leave the EU, therefore their MPs should be representing their constituents and leaving the EU, or have I got this all wrong @ChopleyIOM ......

 

[09237653]

What a load of b*llocks you think people are so easily influenced maybe you have been by Juncker & his mates in Brussels.

Stupid people believe stupid things yes, see: the daily express and daily mail.

 

[09237653]

Is it my imagination or are MPs generally elected during a general election, and each party puts forward a manifesto which their candidate will stand on? I believe both the conservatives and labour put forward a manifesto in the last election saying they will carry out the people’s will and leave the EU, therefore their MPs should be representing their constituents and leaving the EU, or have I got this all wrong @ChopleyIOM ......

With a deal yes, they all were against no deal or so they said.

 

[steveh35]

Stupid people believe stupid things yes, see: the daily express and daily mail.

Oh so now when we have finished with Cambridge Analytica and Aaron Banks we sit back with a copy of the Daily Express, nothing like stereotyping is there maybe we also have photos of Nigel Farage on our walls and say prayers to him before we sleep.

Anymore stereotyping you want to do?

 

[cncas2123]

With a deal yes, they all were against no deal or so they said.

And two deals have been offered up to Parliament and both have been refused, therefore breaking their manifesto commitments

 

[paul7388]

And two deals have been offered up to Parliament and both have been refused, therefore breaking their manifesto commitments

not taking sides on this debate but must ask since this affects you more than most since you are in Northern Ireland.

Are you happy with the proposed deals that have been rejected knowing what they mean for your country in particular.

 

[cncas2123]

not taking sides on this debate but must ask since this affects you more than most since you are in Northern Ireland.

Are you happy with the proposed deals that have been rejected knowing what they mean for your country in particular.

To be honest I think that all that’s been happening is they are kicking the can down the road but this needs to stop and a decision has to be made.
Personally I wouldn’t have minded a NI only backstop as I think that would have been a huge boost to the local economy, even if it only lasted a few years. The current deal with customs alignment I feel has the potential to be good for NI and make us a point of entry for EU and GB therefore making us more attractive to inward investment.
I don’t buy the DUP mantra that it’s too close to a united Ireland because I personally feel there is still a large preference for the status quo and people in NI see the challenge their would be to join the two countries.
I have to point out I’m from a community that would be classed as unionist/ loyalist, so maybe a nationalist/ republican May see things differently.

 

[vorcirion]

 

[steveh35]

I wonder what it actually says.

 

[steveh35]

The letter and a second letter sent as well

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[goatwack]

S.O.S

 

[Mr_Slot5]

The letter and a second letter sent as well

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What a sad situation the remainers in parliament have put us in. Having to grovel for them to veto an extension whilst being forced to ask for said extension in the first place.

I have no words.

Every bit of pandering to the EU that we have had to do has been due to remainer MPs.

 

[steveh35]

What a sad situation the remainers in parliament have put us in. Having to grovel for them to veto an extension whilst being forced to ask for said extension in the first place.

I have no words.

Every bit of pandering to the EU that we have had to do has been due to remainer MPs.

And the EU lovvies at the top will love being begged to especially Juncker it will make them seem important.

 

[steveh35]

According to the Daily Mail Johnson has sent three letters
1) Delay Brexit (unsigned)
2) Making sure EU know no.1 was sent by parliament not him
3) Don't grant an extension

 

[Mr_Slot5]

According to the Daily Mail Johnson has sent three letters
1) Delay Brexit (unsigned)
2) Making sure EU know no.1 was sent by parliament not him
3) Don't grant an extension

It's madness because it unnecessarily hands more power to them- for example they can add any condition they want on to the extension if they grant it. It's just lunacy.

 

[dunover]

I wonder what it actually says.

"Dear Donald (Tusk, not Trump)

I am writing a half-hearted note, under sufferance, because the backstabbing shits that call themselves MP's will do anything aside from deliver the will of the electorate. So as you have no doubt seen, today we witnessed yet another debacle of our broken Parliament who have made me write this letter. So in order to satisfy the requirements of the two-faced sycophants who made me do it, here it is. I request another 3 months to not deliver Brexit, not to be allowed a General Election to establish a workable majority and not be allowed to break wind in case the Supreme Court intervene.

In the meantime we can enter into some more pointless discussions toward a pointless deal which will be turned down anyway by our traitorous MP's. Better still, ignore the Germans' £40bn trade surplus with the UK for a day and just tell us, in basic Anglo-Saxon, to FUCK-OFF! Don't give us an extension, it cannot achieve anything in the current construct of our Parliament. Then we're sorted. We get a no-deal Brexit and I can roll Article 50 up and shove it up Corbyn's arse while telling him it wouldn't have happened if he had had a pair of balls. Then me and Farage can have a good ol' piss-up in the pub, laughing at Sturgeon jumping around like a burning grasshopper.

So, as prescribed by our unbiased Supreme Court, consider this Parliament's fucking request for an extension. Recycle it, burn it - I don't give a shit. I would happily ring up another European leader on the quiet and get them to veto the extension, but no doubt Gina Miller is tapping all the phones with her lawyers ready to override 17.4 million citizens. So perhaps you could do it, eh Donald? It'll not be forgotten next time you bastards over the channel start killing each other, by the way.

Anyway Donald, enjoy the rest of your long weekend and the EU bureaucrat's 25-hour week, sorry we won't be paying for it too much longer. Please also think of me on Monday when I have to look across the benches at that scorpion's ringpiece Swinson, that bug-eyed Krankie and of course that deluded berk Worzel Lenin who thinks the working class love him. Then afterwards me and the GF can settle down with a bottle of claret to watch the BBC's unbiased political coverage which always manages somehow to have EU flag-bearing protesters in the background. On second thoughts, scrub the wine. Perhaps you can find a well-paid pointless EU job for Laura Kuensberg?

So long Donald, nice chatting, good luck next time you seek re-election by the people! Sorry, so sorry, I wasn't taking the piss, when you get reappointed by the other 27 EU leaders ahem.

Yours, BOJO"

 

[goatwack]

We've had actionable deals and they were shunned, it's only downhill from here as successive proposals become evermore watered-down

Obviously today was never going to work, so brace yourself for that (inevitable) extension into Q1 2020, second Referendum, and general EU negotiation-schooling as we get right royally rogered

 

[cncas2123]

I hope all the Labour voters who voted to leave the EU will remember the stance that Jeremy Corbyn has taken in all those. I hope they remember all the businesses that have folded because of the continuing uncertainty caused by endless extensions, and I hope they will remember the jobs his refusal to listen to the majority has caused. I hope when he does have the balls to call an election he gets absolutely wiped out.