Brexit - whats the difference.....

[ChopleyIOM]

The Schengen area is where the countries that are part of it abolished their internal border controls and allows free movement whilst you are within the Schengen zone.

Considering that the UK was never in the Schengen zone, the border between the UK and France was always an external border just as it is now since Brexit.

The French had a similar duty to protect that same border then as they have now. Yet prior to Brexit they were slap dash with it, now they're not.

Tells you exactly what the French are playing at.

When we travelled/travel many a times between Stansted and Eindhoven, our passports were thoroughly checked, before and after Brexit. No difference in time spent at the Dutch border control.

I honestly don't see the point of you fixating on this interlog, it's like you've decided that the answer has to be 'It's nothing to do with Brexit' and are reverse-engineering to a question that will deliver that answer.

I mean, I actually agree with you on most of this:

1) The French should have been implementing Schengen border checks at Dover before Brexit, but when it got very busy they didn't, in order to keep things flowing.
2) The new border checks haven't made much difference at airports, we're talking maybe 10 extra seconds to get a passport stamped.

But you can't take those two facts and then assert that the situation we saw at Dover over the weekend is 'nothing to do with Brexit', at this point it's completely irrelevant what the French were doing two years ago or five years ago or ten years ago, or whether the moon is made out of cheese or not. They didn't do the Schengen border checks at all times, everyone seemed to know about it, and no one seemed to care. (Witness Kay Burley telling James Cleverly 'Oh come on you know they just used to wave us through when it was busy' or Rachel Johnson on LBC refer to it as 'The Schengen Wave', i.e. it was so common she even had a name for it.)

Also it's not true to say that the Schengen border is the same as an EU frontier border, for starters it didn't require passports to be stamped, and also they didn't need to check that you were going over the 90 days in any 180 days, they literally just had to verify it was a valid passport, whereas now there's an extra check AND they need to stamp it - and when you've got cars full of people going through Dover, that's a slower process. (Quite different to an airport queue when everyone's on foot.)

When you say things like 'Tells you exactly what the French are playing at' you're just playing the victim card, the French don't care, they don't give a shit, Brexit has happened, the UK left the EU, it's all done, we're just another third country now, they don't care enough to try and 'punish' us - (plus the prevailing opinion in the EU is that we've done a very good job of punishing ourselves) - it's just a load of border control staff doing their shifts on the job. (And if they are able to 'punish' us, then taking back control didn't work very well, did it?) As the French MP guy said over the weekend, 'This is just a consequence of Brexit, we didn't ask the UK to leave the EU'.

Seriously interlog, how can you expect to leave the EU, the Single Market and the Customs Union, and actually have Priti Evil Patel PUBLICLY BOAST about ending freedom of movement, and then expect there to be absolutely no change at the UK's borders? Whose freedom of movement did you think was being ended, everyone except the British?

You're arguing about something that is, at this point, an utter and complete irrelevance, the French are implementing the rules as they exist now, the rules are different to those that existed before Brexit, we chose Brexit and we chose the type of Brexit we wanted, we chose the rules that would apply to us, cause and effect.

Here's Rachel Johnson talking about 'The Airy Schengen Wave' - you're acting like it's some sort of terrible outrage that has only just come to light, when as far as I can tell it was very well known it was something that happened on a regular basis at Dover, and no one gave a shit.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

This guy does the whole thing in 2m13s, if you're going to disagree with this then you're honestly into the territory of arguing that black is white and up is down.

Why is it so hard to say, 'Yeah we've left, some things are a bit slower and more bureaucratic now as a result, but that's a price worth paying for us taking back control of our borders and restoring sovereignty'?

The point of Brexit was to change things, yes, especially around borders and border controls? So why when something changes is the answer 'THAT CHANGE IS NOTHING TO DO WITH BREXIT'?

 

[interlog]

Also it's not true to say that the Schengen border is the same as an EU frontier border, for starters it didn't require passports to be stamped, and also they didn't need to check that you were going over the 90 days in any 180 days, they literally just had to verify it was a valid passport

So how do you distinguish between a white male from the UK going to France and it being the first stop into the Schengen area (not needing a visa) and a white male from the USA (needing a visa) going to France and it being the first stop into the Schengen area without doing a proper passport check? You needed to have checked the passport properly if you are doing the job of border checks correctly, something that the French clearly didn't do. The Dutch did because everytime prior to Brexit they properly checked the passports.

Besides, if the Schengen border wasn't the same as an EU border, then why have border controls in the first place.

If the French did what they did before (i.e. not properly checking the passports) it would have reliefed some of the pressure. Not all of it, because of the high volume of travellers, the roadnetwork leading into Kent and, apparently, an accident on the motorway that caused even further delays.

 

[mack341]

Why is it so hard to say, 'Yeah we've left, some things are a bit slower and more bureaucratic now as a result, but that's a price worth paying for us taking back control of our borders and restoring sovereignty'?

I think we have haven't we, plus any such problems witnessed recently are reduceable via putting on more staff, if the french are happy to piss off thousands of tourists travelling to their country [who will spend money and help their economy] then more fool them.

 

[Spikie]

Central Europe is short of workers after thousands of Ukrainians have left their labour market ….

Is that because of Brexit too ???

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So how do you distinguish between a white male from the UK going to France and it being the first stop into the Schengen area (not needing a visa) and a white male from the USA (needing a visa) going to France and it being the first stop into the Schengen area without doing a proper passport check? You needed to have checked the passport properly if you are doing the job of border checks correctly, something that the French clearly didn't do. The Dutch did because everytime prior to Brexit they properly checked the passports.

Besides, if the Schengen border wasn't the same as an EU border, then why have border controls in the first place.

If the French did what they did before (i.e. not properly checking the passports) it would have reliefed some of the pressure. Not all of it, because of the high volume of travellers, the roadnetwork leading into Kent and, apparently, an accident on the motorway that caused even further delays.

I don't know why they didn't do it properly before interlog, I'm agreeing with you here, according to the rules they should have done the checks required by Schengen but it was apparently an open secret that when Dover got busy, they didn't. It seems impossible to conceive that other Schengen countries didn't know about it, but as far as I'm aware it never seemed to be raised as any sort of problem, so maybe they just weren't that arsed given that it was an internal EU border being crossed into Schengen rather than from a non-EU country into Schengen? (i.e. You've already had to get into the EU to get into the UK, so whilst technically there should have been the Schengen check when moving from the UK to France, it wasn't seen as that important.)

Maybe other EU countries have made it clear to France that they expect them to police the EU border properly, maybe the French have decided to do it properly because they're more arsed about the EU border than they were a Schengen border, or maybe the guy in charge of the Dover French Border Controls really doesn't like Brits because he once copped off with a lass from Southend and she laughed at his dick and said it was too small, and he's decided to be a pain in the arse about it.

I really don't know and frankly it really doesn't matter, the French are policing the borders in the manner expected of them now that the UK is a third country outside the EU, and that comes with a bit of extra friction and a slightly slower process.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Central Europe is short of workers after thousands of Ukrainians have left their labour market ….

Is that because of Brexit too ???

If only there was a clue.



I genuinely don't understand the whole 'something else has happened somewhere else in the world, is that because of Brexit too, eh? EH?' stuff, or the point it's supposed to be making. Like it's ever even been remotely suggested by

Wokesel Libtard Snowflake Remoaners​

that everything bad happening anywhere in the world is the fault of Brexit.

 

[Matti]

So how do you distinguish between a white male from the UK going to France and it being the first stop into the Schengen area (not needing a visa) and a white male from the USA (needing a visa) going to France and it being the first stop into the Schengen area without doing a proper passport check? You needed to have checked the passport properly if you are doing the job of border checks correctly, something that the French clearly didn't do. The Dutch did because everytime prior to Brexit they properly checked the passports.

Besides, if the Schengen border wasn't the same as an EU border, then why have border controls in the first place.

If the French did what they did before (i.e. not properly checking the passports) it would have reliefed some of the pressure. Not all of it, because of the high volume of travellers, the roadnetwork leading into Kent and, apparently, an accident on the motorway that caused even further delays.

So the French gave you some slack when you belonged to the same club. Now you left the club and still want to be treated as you are part of it……

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So the French gave you some slack when you belonged to the same club. Now you left the club and still want to be treated as you are part of it……

'I never thought leopards would eat MY face,' sobs woman who voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I must say Casinomeister looks a lot nicer now that we have THE MAGNIFICENT CORBYN adorning threads around the place.

 

[dunover]

I must say Casinomeister looks a lot nicer now that we have THE MAGNIFICENT CORBYN adorning threads around the place.

I get it, he's a kindred spirit of the remoaners, both got completely stuffed in their respective 2016 & 2019 polls..

 

[pinnit2014]

Always wondered what happened to him - was he not leading the UK into Communism the promised land?

Greatest achievement was to give me a hankering for wearing some Tweed. Didn't last long though.

 

[interlog]

So the French gave you some slack when you belonged to the same club. Now you left the club and still want to be treated as you are part of it……

But we weren't quite in the club though. We were outside of the Schengen area.

 

[Matti]

But we weren't quite in the club though. We were outside of the Schengen area.

You where in the EU club and I gather you got some slack, even though you where not part of Schengen, because of that. Now you have decided that you want to be totally out and therefore are being treated just like any other third country.

These rules are not really strange and I think you apply similar rules when third country residence enters the UK or am I wrong about that?

 

[Matti]

But we weren't quite in the club though. We were outside of the Schengen area.

Can also add that as part of the EU there was Freedom of movement. I believe that was a contributing factor to Brexit that many didn’t like that freedom for Polish, Romanians etc to come to the uk.
Now that is gone but this of course goes both ways.

 

[mack341]

Can also add that as part of the EU there was Freedom of movement. I believe that was a contributing factor to Brexit that many didn’t like that freedom for Polish, Romanians etc to come to the uk.
Now that is gone but this of course goes both ways.

The number of people moving here annually was astronomical, but also bad elements ruined it for the good ones. If there had been a quota and some sensible restrictions [i.e. no rapists, jailbirds etc] it would have been far less provocative.

In the Early EU membership years no one really noticed the freedom of movement in terms of workforce, most of the member countries had similar standards of living and opportunity so why move, it would mainly be high level professionals.

Even in sweden afaik a load of weapons from the balkans found/finding their way there, grenades etc..so these things aren't managed properly, the principles are all well and good on paper but not in reality.

 

[interlog]

Can also add that as part of the EU there was Freedom of movement. I believe that was a contributing factor to Brexit that many didn’t like that freedom for Polish, Romanians etc to come to the uk.
Now that is gone but this of course goes both ways.

Prior to Brexit any non Schengen European citizen could freely work and come to the UK. So your Romanian could freely travel and work in the UK without the need for a Visa. It has nothing to do with Schengen at all.

So I am not getting your argument regarding this at all?

 

[irish-ranger]

The referendum never needed to be called in the first place, it was basically a cowardly act by Cameron because he didn't have the moral courage to fight off Farage's racist anti-immigrant baiting rhetoric and have a sensible debate around the legitimate concerns their were around the EU, and instead took the easier option of pledging to hold a referendum.

Good god man have you ever considered getting a job on BBC radio 4..

 

[dunover]

Good god man have you ever considered getting a job on BBC radio 4..

OR



Take your pick.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Looks like there weren't enough patriotic Brits to do it after all.

 

[bamberfishcake]

Looks like there weren't enough patriotic Brits to do it after all.

View attachment 170637

So your answer to work-shy Brits is to bring in low-paid workers fleeing from other countries to do the work? Who live in cramped conditions and, after paying the head-of-the-house bossman (who is involved in the criminally organised set-up of 'escape to slavery'), send what little money they have back home out of the economy.

And, let's not forget the boss-mans money, which goes back to the criminal organisation, funnily enough - back home, along with his money, or hers, which, also goes back home. Not a smooth move and not one that benefits the UK.

I propose that if we have a system where able Brits are work-shy is not forcing them to work, then the system and the people who run it are to blame. Not the migrant workers for wanting a better life, and not the society of laziness we have created through our nannying and failure to tackle problems head-on with even an ounce of common sense for the last 10 years.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So your answer to work-shy Brits is to bring in low-paid workers fleeing from other countries to do the work? Who live in cramped conditions and, after paying the head-of-the-house bossman (who is involved in the criminally organised set-up of 'escape to slavery'), send what little money they have back home out of the economy.

And, let's not forget the boss-mans money, which goes back to the criminal organisation, funnily enough - back home, along with his money, or hers, which, also goes back home. Not a smooth move and not one that benefits the UK.

I propose that if we have a system where able Brits are work-shy is not forcing them to work, then the system and the people who run it are to blame. Not the migrant workers for wanting a better life, and not the society of laziness we have created through our nannying and failure to tackle problems head-on with even an ounce of common sense for the last 10 years.

I don't entirely disagree with you, but for the jobs to be even remotely attractive to Brits they would be have to be reasonably well paid (minimum wage wouldn't cut it), along with decent working conditions (and given that many people would have to travel, accommodation of a satisfactory quality too), employee rights and so on.

Of course all of this is an anathema to capitalism and Truss, so she'll do it on the cheap with migrant labour instead.

It's worth remembering that this is hard physical labour, and not as 'unskilled' as some people would like to insist, involving long hours, working at unsociable times, and unless you happen live close to the one of the farming areas where all this stuff is grown, a long way from home too. It's also very much work that can only be done by younger, physically able and strong people, with high levels of endurance. i.e. There isn't perhaps quite the pool of UK labour ready and willing to take on this work that you might think.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

How many people, for example, can go and live down in Cornwall for a couple of months to pick daffodils? Wages of £14-£30 per hour were available.

 

[bamberfishcake]

I don't entirely disagree with you, but for the jobs to be even remotely attractive to Brits they would be have to be reasonably well paid (minimum wage wouldn't cut it), along with decent working conditions (and given that many people would have to travel, accommodation of a satisfactory quality too), employee rights and so on.

Of course all of this is an anathema to capitalism and Truss, so she'll do it on the cheap with migrant labour instead.

It's worth remembering that this is hard physical labour, and not as 'unskilled' as some people would like to insist, involving long hours, working at unsociable times, and unless you happen live close to the one of the farming areas where all this stuff is grown, a long way from home too. It's also very much work that can only be done by younger, physically able and strong people, with high levels of endurance. i.e. There isn't perhaps quite the pool of UK labour ready and willing to take on this work that you might think.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

How many people, for example, can go and live down in Cornwall for a couple of months to pick daffodils? Wages of £14-£30 per hour were available.

View attachment 170639
View attachment 170640

I understand why a business might want to do that at a local level. It's a toss-up between unenthusiastic Brits being forced to turn up, or migrant workers, which due to their environment/upbringing/conditioning, tend to be more motivated.

I just think it's another issue being skirted around, and a proposed solution which may be good in the short term but actually does more harm in the long run. Reckon there are plenty of Brits on Universal Credit who could be chaperoned into a mini-bus each day around Devon and Cornwall. The wages come off their credits along with the bus fare.

Afraid I don't have a lot of faith in these people who are supposedly masters of industry and of superior intelligence, who don't plumb for more direct solutions, especially now we are out of the EU and we can make our own rules.

 

[interlog]

I don't entirely disagree with you, but for the jobs to be even remotely attractive to Brits they would be have to be reasonably well paid (minimum wage wouldn't cut it), along with decent working conditions (and given that many people would have to travel, accommodation of a satisfactory quality too), employee rights and so on.

Of course all of this is an anathema to capitalism and Truss, so she'll do it on the cheap with migrant labour instead.

It's worth remembering that this is hard physical labour, and not as 'unskilled' as some people would like to insist, involving long hours, working at unsociable times, and unless you happen live close to the one of the farming areas where all this stuff is grown, a long way from home too. It's also very much work that can only be done by younger, physically able and strong people, with high levels of endurance. i.e. There isn't perhaps quite the pool of UK labour ready and willing to take on this work that you might think.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

How many people, for example, can go and live down in Cornwall for a couple of months to pick daffodils? Wages of £14-£30 per hour were available.

View attachment 170639
View attachment 170640

So if the Eastern Europeans can (or rather are willing) to do it, why can't the British? £14/hr is above minimum wage and £30 per hour (I guess that this can be earned because of a bonus involved) is a very good wage by any standard.

Is it because the British are shy of doing that hard graft and rather sit at home in front of the telly being funded by the tax payer? Perhaps that needs addressing.

 

[pinnit2014]

Not helped by the fact you have a system that doesn't promote working - pretty sure people will know people who will have had to cut their hours/don't accept more just to make sure they 'don't lose money' because of the thresholds.