Brexit - whats the difference.....

[dunover]

Well if your measure of success is something being objectively worse than it was before, then I am happy for your satisfaction with the process.

I can understand it though, since Brexit has failed to deliver any single tangible benefit for the UK whatsoever, I guess it makes sense to double down on the NASTY MEANY EU story so that anything shit that happens post-Brexit becomes, perversely, validation for it having been the right thing to do in the first place.

Look - if I left the missus, I would have to run a whole household at my expense solely. I would pay 75% council tax, as opposed to 50%. Things woud take some getting used to, new driving routes, new premises. New shop probably. But fuck me, would I be happy to do that to get away from her. My house, my rules only.

 

[paul7388]

But i am starting to agree with the logic. If it causes delays and inconvenience do not do it.

On hot days do not allow thousands to travel to the beach as it causes traffic congestion and delays.

Roadworks should be banned. How dare they fix the roads and make people get delayed on their journeys. They chose to do the roadworks knowing damn well it would cause delays.

Seriously Chopley i know you are totally against Brexit. And maybe it will cause a lot of damage. But i think at the moment with so many other things to worry about delays to get to France is not really the end of the world.

Glad i never voted as being honest i could not really care whether we stayed in EU or left. I would probably have chose to remain but as it was voted to leave i accept that. Only vote i have done and will do is No to independence in Scotland. As that would do more damage to me than leaving EU ever did.

 

[pinnit2014]

But i am starting to agree with the logic. If it causes delays and inconvenience do not do it.

On hot days do not allow thousands to travel to the beach as it causes traffic congestion and delays.

Roadworks should be banned. How dare they fix the roads and make people get delayed on their journeys. They chose to do the roadworks knowing damn well it would cause delays.

Seriously Chopley i know you are totally against Brexit. And maybe it will cause a lot of damage. But i think at the moment with so many other things to worry about delays to get to France is not really the end of the world.

Glad i never voted as being honest i could not really care whether we stayed in EU or left. I would probably have chose to remain but as it was voted to leave i accept that. Only vote i have done and will do is No to independence in Scotland. As that would do more damage to me than leaving EU ever did.

 

[paul7388]

View attachment 170295

And i thought this thread could not get worse.

 

[bamberfishcake]

View attachment 170295

What has Anne Robinson got to do with Brexit?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

What has Anne Robinson got to do with Brexit?

She has identified Brexit as the weakest link.

 

[pinnit2014]

What has Anne Robinson got to do with Brexit?

She's helping to Countdown the days to Indy Ref 2

 

[bamberfishcake]

She's helping to Countdown the days to Indy Ref 2

Do you think Scotland's independence is a good idea? or is that for another thread? Are you pro Scotxit?

 

[paul7388]

Do you think Scotland's independence is a good idea? or is that for another thread? Are you pro Scotxit?

He is not even Scottish so sod all to do with him lol. Unless he votes No then fine.

But i will answer. The whole thing is a complete joke just like our leader. How i detest that woman.

 

[paul7388]

The forum must have agreed with me on her as it posted my message twice lol.

 

[sufferinsilence]

Do you think Scotland's independence is a good idea? or is that for another thread? Are you pro Scotxit?

Pro Scotshit?

 

[pinnit2014]

Do you think Scotland's independence is a good idea? or is that for another thread? Are you pro Scotxit?

Well the SNP have produced such a detailed paper on it, cough, it's hard to argue with

To be honest, if you'd have asked me, more so 10 years ago, i'd have said no. But i'm probably a bit more open to it than then, though i'd probably still vote as i did at the last one (there's a few posters on this thread that would probably tip me to holding hands with Anne Robinson)

You'll find there's a large vote who, if it wasn't for the SNP/Green's, would probably shift theirs in favour but can't quite face appointing a lunatic.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

But i am starting to agree with the logic. If it causes delays and inconvenience do not do it.

On hot days do not allow thousands to travel to the beach as it causes traffic congestion and delays.

Roadworks should be banned. How dare they fix the roads and make people get delayed on their journeys. They chose to do the roadworks knowing damn well it would cause delays.

Seriously Chopley i know you are totally against Brexit. And maybe it will cause a lot of damage. But i think at the moment with so many other things to worry about delays to get to France is not really the end of the world.

Glad i never voted as being honest i could not really care whether we stayed in EU or left. I would probably have chose to remain but as it was voted to leave i accept that. Only vote i have done and will do is No to independence in Scotland. As that would do more damage to me than leaving EU ever did.

Delays getting to France are indeed not the end of the world, but that isn't the point. No one said Brexit would be 'the end of the world', and let's face it, that's a pretty low bar to cross.

I talked earlier in this thread about 'the Brexit of small things', i.e. all the little ways that Brexit would incrementally make things worse, i.e. slower, more expensive, more bureaucratic, more inconvenient etc.

This is another thing to go on that list, because as a third country there is now more friction at our borders, and as tens of thousands of holiday makers have found, on what will be their first proper trip abroad since the pandemic, what used to be a quick and painless process of getting waved through customs, passing from one EU country to another, is now a massive ballache that involves sitting in gridlocked traffic for six hours or more.

Brexit was sold as being something that would make things better, Boris 'Massive Fucking Liar' Johnson didn't drive around in a big red bus with the words, 'BREXIT - IT WON'T BE THE END OF THE WORLD' written on the side of it, he drove around in a big red bus with a massive fucking lie written on the side of it.

Brexit is a con, sold by conmen, and now the con is getting found out in different ways, by different people, every single day. The pandemic provided a lot of cover for the harms of Brexit, what's happening at Dover is what will increasingly happen now that the smokescreen of Covid has lifted.

The 'Davis Downside Dossier' is currently sat at 674 downsides and 21 upsides -

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

(David Davis of course, having famously said that Brexit would not have any downsides, only considerable upsides. Tell that to the families whose holidays have been getting off to a thoroughly rotten start over the last couple of days.)

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Don't worry, Liz is going to fix it with her SERIOUS FACE.

The irony here is almost off the charts, for starters she campaigned for Remain precisely because she understood that a hard Brexit would lead to this sort of shit, and now we're literally getting cross with the French for having taken back control of their borders precisely because of the type of Brexit we chose to enact.

Remember folks, this shit works both ways, we're not the only country with borders, we chose to end our own freedom of movement.

 

[interlog]

Don't worry, Liz is going to fix it with her SERIOUS FACE.

The irony here is almost off the charts, for starters she campaigned for Remain precisely because she understood that a hard Brexit would lead to this sort of shit, and now we're literally getting cross with the French for having taken back control of their borders precisely because of the type of Brexit we chose to enact.

Remember folks, this shit works both ways, we're not the only country with borders, we chose to end our own freedom of movement.

Nope, they just didn't do their job correctly prior to Brexit by letting all and sundry enter the Schengen zone that they were meant to control by means of letting every Tom, Dick and Harry wave their expired et all passports at them.

But because we dared to leave their precious Union they are now suddenly enforcing as they should have done before but clearly failed to do so.

 

[mack341]

I seem to remember a big 'this is brexit's fault!' here when there was a haulage problem a while back, either petrol or supermarket stocks. Then nothing since, so it got solved as likely this will.

However If the french carry on with more, deliberate make life difficult 'tricks' for their friendly neighbour, one solution could be to consumer boycott all of their products exported here, they'll soon about-turn.

Edit: Also apparently covid checks may be one of the reasons for delays:

Covid checks

Speaking of the pandemic, France still requires that passengers must be either fully vaccinated, or have a negative Covid test in order to enter the country.

Passengers can show either a QR code on their health app (either the French Tous Anti Covid or the British NHS app) or a paper certificate at the border.

Checking of the health pass for passengers from the UK has been varied, but many passengers have reported that checks have become more rigorous in the past few weeks, as France battles a seventh wave of cases.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Nope, they just didn't do their job correctly prior to Brexit by letting all and sundry enter the Schengen zone that they were meant to control by means of letting every Tom, Dick and Harry wave their expired et all passports at them.

But because we dared to leave their precious Union they are now suddenly enforcing as they should have done before but clearly failed to do so.

I can't find any great information on this, from what I can see passports should have been at least given a cursory check prior to Brexit, but that now the checks are more thorough, so will take longer. However, that doesn't square up with what some of the travellers being interviewed on the news yesterday were saying, i.e. that at very busy times they would basically just be waved through as long as they were in possession of passports.

Either way, passports do need to be stamped now, which they didn't before, so that will take longer.

Maybe things were let slide before in a way that they aren't being now, maybe France thinks it has a more serious duty towards manning the border than it did before, or maybe they really are just doing it to try and 'punish the Brits'.

Ultimately it doesn't really matter, the rules being enforced now are the rules that apply to third countries outside the EU, we can see that this was expected to be a problem because Dover asked for £33m a couple of years ago to get more border infrastructure in place, and the government refused to give them the money. (This has been widely reported over the last couple of days.)

Brexit - whats the difference..... - Page 197 - Casinomeister Forum

There's something else that's interesting here, I've lost track of the number of times folks in this thread have said words to the effect of, 'I knew Brexit would be a bit of a bumpy ride, I knew it wouldn't be perfect, I knew there'd be some teething troubles when I voted for it', and yet whenever we get a concrete, tangible example of Brexit having made something worse, all of a sudden IT'S NOTHING TO DO WITH BREXIT WHATSOEVER mode is instantaneously activated.

It seems to me like, if Leavers really believed in their project they’d say ‘yes, now we’ve left we’re a third country and that will increase bureaucracy and queues a bit, but it’s still worth it’. Instead they just deny Brexit’s a factor at all. It’s almost as if, deep down, they’re in denial about it.

 

[interlog]

I can't find any great information on this, from what I can see passports should have been at least given a cursory check prior to Brexit, but that now the checks are more thorough, so will take longer. However, that doesn't square up with what some of the travellers being interviewed on the news yesterday were saying, i.e. that at very busy times they would basically just be waved through as long as they were in possession of passports.

Either way, passports do need to be stamped now, which they didn't before, so that will take longer.

Maybe things were let slide before in a way that they aren't being now, maybe France thinks it has a more serious duty towards manning the border than it did before, or maybe they really are just doing it to try and 'punish the Brits'.

Ultimately it doesn't really matter, the rules being enforced now are the rules that apply to third countries outside the EU, we can see that this was expected to be a problem because Dover asked for £33m a couple of years ago to get more border infrastructure in place, and the government refused to give them the money. (This has been widely reported over the last couple of days.)

Brexit - whats the difference..... - Page 197 - Casinomeister Forum

There's something else that's interesting here, I've lost track of the number of times folks in this thread have said words to the effect of, 'I knew Brexit would be a bit of a bumpy ride, I knew it wouldn't be perfect, I knew there'd be some teething troubles when I voted for it', and yet whenever we get a concrete, tangible example of Brexit having made something worse, all of a sudden IT'S NOTHING TO DO WITH BREXIT WHATSOEVER mode is instantaneously activated.

It seems to me like, if Leavers really believed in their project they’d say ‘yes, now we’ve left we’re a third country and that will increase bureaucracy and queues a bit, but it’s still worth it’. Instead they just deny Brexit’s a factor at all. It’s almost as if, deep down, they’re in denial about it.

Well some conflicting stuff going on. Dover has recovered but the problem has now shifted to Folkestone as per the below article. The Director of Public Affairs of the Eurotunnel is saying:

He said more staff have been laid on from the French side as that has been "quieter" but passport checks are accounted for in normal processing times.

Perhaps the French at Folkestone are waving travellers through or alternatively those in Dover are working, deliberately, slow.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[interlog]

I seem to remember a big 'this is brexit's fault!' here when there was a haulage problem a while back, either petrol or supermarket stocks. Then nothing since, so it got solved as likely this will.

However If the french carry on with more, deliberate make life difficult 'tricks' for their friendly neighbour, one solution could be to consumer boycott all of their products exported here, they'll soon about-turn.

Edit: Also apparently covid checks may be one of the reasons for delays:

Covid checks

Speaking of the pandemic, France still requires that passengers must be either fully vaccinated, or have a negative Covid test in order to enter the country.

Passengers can show either a QR code on their health app (either the French Tous Anti Covid or the British NHS app) or a paper certificate at the border.

Checking of the health pass for passengers from the UK has been varied, but many passengers have reported that checks have become more rigorous in the past few weeks, as France battles a seventh wave of cases.

The shortage of LGV drivers was as a result of Covid and the lack of new LGV drivers passing their test in a timely manner. It certainly has recovered and provided that you pay a decent wage, you can attract LGV drivers. As a matter of fact, only this morning an agency driver approached me to ask if we had any full time vacancies. We don't, because we have filled all of the vacancies that we did have with us turning down candidates.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Well some conflicting stuff going on. Dover has recovered but the problem has now shifted to Folkestone as per the below article. The Director of Public Affairs of the Eurotunnel is saying:

He said more staff have been laid on from the French side as that has been "quieter" but passport checks are accounted for in normal processing times.

Perhaps the French at Folkestone are waving travellers through or alternatively those in Dover are working, deliberately, slow.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

So this guy is on the news, and he's saying that passport checks take longer now than they did before. (You can watch it for yourself, just fire up Sky News on YouTube and rewind it to the top of the hour.)

Interestingly, he also says that they predicted trouble because of the longer checks, so they are artificially capping how many vehicles and people they process on a daily basis (he specifically cites lower numbers this year than they took in 2018), but that the longer checks are still causing long delays.

So yes, it's slower now than it was before Brexit, and even operating at deliberately reduced capacity, the extra Brexit bureaucracy is causing horrendous delays and tailbacks.

Which is fine, this was expected, surely, now that Britain is a third country outside the EU? I mean, what's the point of leaving if it wasn't going to change anything?

 

[interlog]

So this guy is on the news, and he's saying that passport checks take longer now than they did before. (You can watch it for yourself, just fire up Sky News on YouTube and rewind it to the top of the hour.)

Interestingly, he also says that they predicted trouble because of the longer checks, so they are artificially capping how many vehicles and people they process on a daily basis (he specifically cites lower numbers this year than they took in 2018), but that the longer checks are still causing long delays.

So yes, it's slower now than it was before Brexit, and even operating at deliberately reduced capacity, the extra Brexit bureaucracy is causing horrendous delays and tailbacks.

Which is fine, this was expected, surely, now that Britain is a third country outside the EU? I mean, what's the point of leaving if it wasn't going to change anything?

View attachment 170312

So if passport control takes longer, then why no continious queues at both Dover and Folkestone as you would expect?

Perhaps it has something to do with the short staffing of the French and the sheer volume of traffic attempting to get across the channel. The same sheer amount of traffic that causes traffic congestion during peak holiday travel in the UK.

So, I insist, fuck all to do with Brexit.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So if passport control takes longer, then why no continious queues at both Dover and Folkestone as you would expect?

Perhaps it has something to do with the short staffing of the French and the sheer volume of traffic attempting to get across the channel. The same sheer amount of traffic that causes traffic congestion during peak holiday travel in the UK.

So, I insist, fuck all to do with Brexit.

I am impressed that you know more about this than both the Chief Executive of the Port of Dover and Eurotunnel's Director Of Public Affairs, you should totally get a job there or something, you'd make a fortune!

The self-styled exceptionalism of a Leaver truly knows no bounds. Take a look at all the evidence, throw it in the bin and decide that your opinion on the matter is actually the one real truth.

 

[interlog]

I am impressed that you know more about this than both the Chief Executive of the Port of Dover and Eurotunnel's Director Of Public Affairs, you should totally get a job there or something, you'd make a fortune!

The self-styled exceptionalism of a Leaver truly knows no bounds. Take a look at all the evidence, throw it in the bin and decide that your opinion on the matter is actually the one real truth.

I am more than capable to form my own opinion. I don't need social media such as Twatter for that.

 

[interlog]

I am out of this now. You try to have a debate and all you get is belittling.

Adios.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I am out of this now. You try to have a debate and all you get is belittling.

Adios.

I am not attempting to belittle you, but you're making statements that fly directly in the face of the available evidence, including from the exact people who are uniquely well placed to explain the realities of the situations at both Dover and Folkstone.

If you're going to insist 'fuck all to do with Brexit' when every shred of evidence points in the opposite direction, what is there left to say? The head honchos at both Dover and Folkstone are now on record as having said, 'Yeah this shit takes longer now, so more delays'. You are effectively saying that you know more about this than the people whose literal jobs is to look after this stuff at Dover and Folkstone.

And what would be so bad about just accepting that Brexit has consequences, and that some of them will be negative? If the goal of Brexit was to change things, then doesn't it follow that not all of those changes will be positive?

You simply cannot leave the EU, Single Market and Customs Union and then expect passage across borders to be exactly the same as it was before, because it objectively and clearly isn't.

My comment was not intended to come across as belittling, it was supposed to be tongue in cheek whilst also making a serious point about the 'British Exceptionalism' that can IMO, explain an awful lot of the entire Brexit phenomenon. i.e. 'We want to take back control of our borders! But not you, you shouldn't do that as well'.

Regardless, I apologise for making the comment.