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Bonus Complaint Boyle Casino 200% Slots bonus - not calculating wagering accurately

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by pajtaz, May 15, 2013.

    May 15, 2013
  1. pajtaz

    pajtaz Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Hi, I created the account just to post this. This issue is with bonus from Boyle Casino.

    I opted in to Boyle Casino 200% Slots bonus. I never deposited before. I deposited 50 euro and received 100 euro bonus. The wagering requirement was 30 x Bonus + Deposit, so 30 x 150 = 4500 euro. I accepted the bonus when I logged in and the bonus showed up in Cashier. The wagering requirement was listed as 4500 euro and remaining as 4500 euro. No problems here. Wagering requirement was only applicable to slots.

    I opened only two slots. I opened Wall Street Fever and Cinerama. Wall Street Fever is 0.50 per spin and Cinerama is 0.25 per spin. I set both to Autoplay for 5000 spins. So I started the autoplay. To clarify, autoplay spins only count down the actual betting spins, not the free spins so no free spins are deducted from the total amount of autoplay spins.

    After about 700 Wall Street Fever spins (and about the same on Cinerama), I checked the Cashier and the wagering requirement remaining. The remaining wagering requirement was about 4375, so it lowered only by about 125 euro. Simple math is 700 spins x 0.50 = 350 euro (for Wall Street Fever). I thought maybe the Cashier needs to catch up so I let it go for a little while.

    A bit later, after about a total of 1300 spins on Wall Street Fever and similar amount on Cinerama, I checked Cashier again. This time the remaining wagering requirement was about 4150. At this point I knew something was wrong and contacted support while I continued playing.

    Clearly, the casino was not calculating the wagering correctly even though all of the spins can be clearly found under Gaming History in the Cashier. I chatted with support for a long time and the support person (VIP-James) just kept repeating that I only wagered what is says in Cashier. I told him over and over again that the Gaming History clearly shows the number of spins and total number of bets can be calculated as much higher than what Cashier shows under remaining wagering requirement. He did not budge. He did not seem to understand simple math of spins x bet = wagered amount. I repeated multiple times that I spun over 1600 spins on Wall Street Fever at one point which by itself equaled 800 euro, not adding Cinerama spins.

    I asked for my 50 euro deposit back and was told I cannot get it back "because all of my bets were legitimate". But then I told him that if my bets were legitimated, why are they not counted towards wagering requirement? If they are not counted then they are not legitimate bets which means they should be returned to me. Basically, I was trying to show the fallacy in his argument but he was not changing his story.

    Here is the conversation between me and the VIP-James (I copied and pasted it):
    Zmemo: Hello
    VIP_James: Hi Davor.
    VIP_James: James here.
    Zmemo: Hi James
    Zmemo: James, I am concerned about something
    VIP_James: How can I help you?
    Zmemo: James, I opted in for th 200% slots sign up bonus
    Zmemo: The slots are supposed to count 100% towards wagering
    Zmemo: I have spun over 1200 spins on Wall St Fever, which is 50 cents per spin
    VIP_James: To get the complete details about it please go to You must register/login in order to see the link..

    Zmemo: That alone is worth 600 euro
    Zmemo: However, the wagering in the bonus area of the Cashier only counted about 375 so far
    VIP_James: There you will see the games that will count towards your wagering requirement.
    Zmemo: Yes, this counts
    Zmemo: Why is the cashier wrong?
    VIP_James: Let me check.
    VIP_James: Give me 3 to 5 minutes.
    Zmemo: Right now, from 4500 wagering requirement, it says I still have to wager 4150
    Zmemo: That's wrong, since I spun over 1300 on Wall St Fever aloine
    VIP_James: Thanks for waiting.
    VIP_James: I see that as of the moment you've already bet 360.50 I see that you are betting .50 and .25.
    Zmemo: Impossible!!!!
    Zmemo: For God's sake, I spun almost 1400 spins on Wall Street Fever alone
    Zmemo: Look at it
    Zmemo: If I spin 1400 x 0.50 = 700
    Zmemo: Look at my history
    VIP_James: Let me check.
    VIP_James: Give me 3 to 5 minutes please.
    Zmemo: On top of that, the Wall St Fever losing streak I am having is horrendous
    VIP_James: I hope you get lucky this time around (angel)
    Zmemo: I have played it on other casinos and I have never managed to lose over 100 euro in this amount of time
    Zmemo: Either way, please look at the wagering
    Zmemo: I will never deposit again if the customers are treated this way. The wagering clearly states 100% of slots
    Zmemo: And I have spun basically 1500 on Wall St
    Zmemo: And the cashier states it's less than half that
    VIP_James: Thanks for waiting.
    Zmemo: And I will contact the gaming comission that oversees Boyle Casino
    Zmemo: Please tell me this is fixed now
    VIP_James: I see that as of the moment you already wagered €408.25 please be reminded that you are betting from the range of 0.25 to 0.50 if you will try to divide it, you've already spun over 1000+ and the bonus rounds doesn't have any bets that will add towards your wagering requirements.
    Zmemo: What?
    Zmemo: Yes, no bonus rounds count in the wagering
    Zmemo: Bonus spins do not get deducted from the total amount of spins
    VIP_James: For example 400 / 0.50 = 800.
    Zmemo: Yes
    Zmemo: I have spun over 1500
    Zmemo: So, 1500 / 2 = 750
    Zmemo: And that is JUST Wall St Fever
    Zmemo: Not counting Cinerama
    VIP_James: 400/ .25 = 1600.
    Zmemo: Yes, so let's add 750 plus 400
    Zmemo: That is 1150
    Zmemo: I have wagered 1150
    Zmemo: At least
    VIP_James: You may not need to add it since the .25 to .50 are the bets that you are making.
    Zmemo: James, it's simple math
    Zmemo: If I spi 1500 of Wall St Fever
    Zmemo: At 50 cents
    Zmemo: That means I wagered 750 euro
    VIP_James: You were able to wager more than 400 now from the 0.25 to 0.50 bets you are making.
    Zmemo: Ok, again
    Zmemo: 1500 times 0.5 = 750
    Zmemo: That means 750 euro I wagered on WAll St
    VIP_James: You may need to divide it.
    Zmemo: I did
    Zmemo: 1500 spins
    Zmemo: at 0.50 cents
    VIP_James: Not multiply for you to be able to compute for the amount you've bet.
    Zmemo: If I were to divide
    Zmemo: I would end up with 3000 euro wagered
    Zmemo: It's simple math
    Zmemo: I spun 1500 times
    Zmemo: At 0.50
    Zmemo: Each spin counts as 0.50
    Zmemo: So if I spin once, it is 0.50 wagered
    Zmemo: If I spin twice, that means I spun 2 x 0.5 = 1 euro wagered
    Zmemo: Ok?
    Zmemo: Therefore, 1500 spins x 0.50 cents = 750 euro wagered
    Zmemo: Ok?
    VIP_James: I see that right now the amount you've wagered is 426.00 if you will divide that to 0.50 that will be 852 spins but I see that not all your bets are 0.50.
    Zmemo: ALL OF MY BETS ARE 0.50 on Wall Street Fever
    Zmemo: And I have spun at least 1500!!!!
    Zmemo: Not 852
    Zmemo: Ok, as of RIGHT NOW, I spun 1615 times on Wall Street
    Zmemo: All of them at 0.50
    Zmemo: Therefore, I wagered 1615 x 0.5 = 807.50 euro
    Zmemo: On Cinerama, I spun 1703 times
    Zmemo: 1703 x 0.25 = 425.75
    Zmemo: Therefore, 807.50 + 425.75 = 1233.25 euro wagered
    Zmemo: The cashier says only 416 eur wagered
    Zmemo: What is the problem?
    Zmemo: Ok, I want my money back
    Zmemo: This is ridicoulous
    Zmemo: I deposited 50, I want 50 back
    VIP_James: Sorry Davor but I can see that all the bets you made here are legitimate.
    Zmemo: Yes, correct, so why is the cashier still showing incorrect information?
    VIP_James: It is not incorrect Davor if you will try to divide 426 which is the amount of bets you made now and divide it to .50 the result will be 852 spins. That means you've spun 852 with 0.50 per spin on wall street.
    Zmemo: Oh for God's sake
    Zmemo: I just said I spun 1615 times on Wall Street Aloine
    Zmemo: I can do a search on Game History in Cashier and show this
    Zmemo: You can do it yourself if I can do it
    Zmemo: Look, I want to talk to a manager
    Zmemo: I want my money back
    VIP_James: I'm the manager available as of the moment.
    Zmemo: Well, James, then please fix this
    Zmemo: If I can download game history, then you can too
    VIP_James: You will be unable to get your funds since the bets you made are legitimate.
    Zmemo: But I made more bets that you claim
    Zmemo: So how can they be legitimate if you are not counting them as legitimate?
    Zmemo: So the casino is basically not counting the bets I made which means they do not count and I should get my money back
    Zmemo: If this is correct, I should get 1233.95 - 416 euro = 817.95 euro back
    Zmemo: Because those are the bets you are NOT counting
    Zmemo: But I lost them
    Zmemo: Please explain this to me then
    VIP_James: As of now you've wagered €426.00 and you may need to wager €4,074.00 more for the last bonus you received to complete your wagering requirement.
    Zmemo: James, Jesus Christ, I did not wager 426
    Zmemo: I wagered 1233.95
    Zmemo: As I just showed you
    Zmemo: It is your own software that is showing this
    Zmemo: I am READING THE GAMES HISTORY RIGHT NOW

    Here is the second part, after I logged out and logged back in:
    VIP_James: Hi Davor.
    VIP_James: Still James here.
    VIP_James: I'm checking on it now.
    VIP_James: Please give me 3 to 5 minutes.
    Zmemo: Well, I just logged out and logged back in
    Zmemo: Still says the same
    Zmemo: And I can still access 1615 spins of Wall Street at 0.50 cents each
    VIP_James: I'm checking on it as of the moment.
    VIP_James: I will surely let you know as soon as I get an update.
    VIP_James: Thanks for waiting.
    VIP_James: I'm now checking it with one of our specialists.
    Zmemo: Yes?
    VIP_James: I will inform you as soon as I get a response.
    Zmemo: Thank you James
    VIP_James: No worries :)
    Zmemo: However, I will have to report this
    Zmemo: I am very unhappy
    Zmemo: I opted in to the offer thinking that Boyle Casino will uphold their end
    Zmemo: however, so far Boyle Casino has not done that
    Zmemo: I will download Game History and share it
    Zmemo: As proof
    VIP_James: I'm checking on it now so we can provide an accurate answer about this.
    Zmemo: I really don't understand this
    Zmemo: I can clearly myself download game history
    Zmemo: Which shows bet amounts for each spin
    Zmemo: And there are thousands of spins
    Zmemo: If I can see it then the Boyle Casino personnel should see it right away
    Zmemo: But I will wait
    VIP_James: I'm doing all the best I can here I'm now investigating this with one our game specialists. Please hold.
    VIP_James: Thanks for waiting Davor.
    Zmemo: Yes?
    VIP_James: For us to further investigate on this I may have to forward it to our relevant department.
    Zmemo: Ok
    VIP_James: We will be sending you an email update once we get an response from them.
    Zmemo: I am sorry but up to that point I will have to warn players not to trust Boyle Casino
    Zmemo: Because the wagering was not counted properly
    Zmemo: Which is not according to what Boyle Casino was advertising
    Zmemo: Again, if I can see the game history
    VIP_James: We will let you know as soon as we get an update about this.
    Zmemo: I do not understand how anyone from your side cannot see it
    Zmemo: Bye
     
  2. May 15, 2013
  3. pajtaz

    pajtaz Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Additional comments

    My complaint was not answered and I want to bring this issue up with all Boyle Casino players. At the time I started complaining, I still had more money than my initial deposit in the account. My problem was not with losing money but with the fact that the casino was clearly not counting the wagering properly, causing me to think that I had to wager a lot more than I should.

    Also, I want to complain to whatever gaming commission is supposed to oversee Boyle Casino. This is a clear violation of their own bonus rules that stated that 100% of slots wagering will count towards the bonus wagering requirement.

    If anyone can help, I would appreciate it. At this point, I just want the casino to admit their fault and to fix the issue for all other players. As a bonus, I would like my 50 euro deposit back because I feel the casino violated its own terms and would not admit it. Worst of all, the history of all bets made using the two slots I was playing can be seen by me and by the casino employees and yet they still refused to acknowledge those bets were made and counted toward wagering requirement.
     
  4. May 15, 2013
  5. Slotster!

    Slotster! I predict a riot. CAG

    Occupation:
    al Hazard
    Location:
    Location, Location!
    Happy to send you the 50 euro if you don't make me read that chat transcript again.

    Hopefully someone here who understands wagering better than me can chime in and help.
     
  6. May 15, 2013
  7. pajtaz

    pajtaz Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Haha, I'll take it! Sorry, just wanted to show the blatant inability of the support person to calculate simple math.
     
  8. May 15, 2013
  9. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    Well it's clear the CS is pretty clueless, but that's unfortunately not uncommon. A frustrating chat therefore, and a severe temptation to start cussing (which you didn't.)

    Did you read the T&C's properly? I ask because I'll tell you where you might have gone wrong here - the 2 slots you played are PROGRESSIVES and I believe the WR increases by a factor of x? on these - some Playtechs exclude them altogether.

    Re-read the T&C's and report back please........


    UPDATE:
    I actually had a quick look for you and cannot see any exclusions, it simply says 'slots' and their weighting is 100%. I can't see anything about progressives in the promo. I did notice this weird term at the bottom:

    Important Bonus Term and Condition

    If a player wins twice the value of their bonus they must continue to play on a game with the same weighting until the wagering requirement has been met. EG If a player is awarded a 10 bonus and wins 20 or more while playing Blackjack, they must continue playing Blackjack or a game with a similar game weighting like Craps until they have met the necessary wagering requirement. For a full list of our Game Weightings please CLICK HERE


    Again I can't see the relevance of that to your version of events.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2013
  10. May 15, 2013
  11. pajtaz

    pajtaz Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Checked!

    I quickly checked T&C of both the bonus, the site and wagering breakdown. There is nothing about progressives and nothing about wagering requirement increasing when playing these slots.

    Also, I just found another support to my argument, I just checked my comp points and my total accumulated points were 126. From the Boyle Casino website, "Boylecasino offers you the chance to earn real cash every time you play! Each time you bet with Boylecasino you'll earn Comp Points, you get 1 comp point for every €/£10 you stake which can then be converted into real cash."

    If I calculated that I wagered just over 1233 euro, I should have just about 123 comp points. Well, since I have 126 total (I wagered just a bit more since I last calculated the total wagering), that clearly shows that I wagered at least 1260 euro!
     
  12. May 15, 2013
  13. pajtaz

    pajtaz Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Reply

    I started with 150 euro and the most I had was about 220 euro. That means most I won was 70 euro. Since the bonus was 100 euro, that is not twice the value of bonus.

    Boyle Casino has not replied yet and it has been 3 hours, even though I repeatedly shown them that I can see all of the game history from the Cashier itself.
     
  14. May 15, 2013
  15. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    I must admit I can't see any reason, what with both checking the T&C's and the evidence you provided why this has happened. The only reason I can suggest is that they (omitting to state this) have a different WR weighting for the slots you played. I hope this isn't listed in the general T&C's and not the bonus ones..
     
  16. May 15, 2013
  17. pajtaz

    pajtaz Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Hmmm

    I also checked the general T&C and did not see anything about difference in wagering for these slots. Finally, how can the casino omit something like this from either the bonus terms or wagering weighing terms? I do not know what they did and whether it was on purpose but the casino simply did not count all of the bets, making it seem as if the wagering was not being met.
     
  18. May 15, 2013
  19. djkice

    djkice Dormant account PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    DJ
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    My head hurts after reading that transcript.

    I wish you the best of luck getting it resolved.
     
  20. May 15, 2013
  21. Borgie

    Borgie Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Office Manager
    Location:
    United Kingdom
  22. May 15, 2013
  23. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Occupation:
    Not in workforce
    Location:
    Ontario
    1 person likes this.
  24. May 15, 2013
  25. pajtaz

    pajtaz Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    No update

    I sent a private message to Keith Hathaway and I just chatted with support again. Nothing has been done yet and I have no update.
     
  26. May 16, 2013
  27. chayton

    chayton aka LooHoo CAG PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Freelance Designer
    Location:
    Edmonton Canada
    I've actually played at Playtechs where play on progressive slots don't count toward wagering at all. But I don't see any terms pertaining to that at all.
     
  28. May 16, 2013
  29. pajtaz

    pajtaz Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Update!

    Hi,

    I received an email today from VIP Manager acknowledging that Boyle Casino made a mistake. They apologized AND refunded my deposit plus bonus. They also lowered the waging requirement to 20 times.

    Matter has been resolved. Thank you for all the input and thanks to Boyle Casino VIP Manager Tim who fixed this.:notworthy
     
    10 people like this.
  30. May 20, 2013
  31. akrus88

    akrus88 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Finland
    This should cause some serious headache to boyle. They should go trough all players game history who have played at the same time as the OP with bonuses. To see if there is some issues. If there are, they should check it day back and check bonusplayers game histories. If there is still issues they should go day back more. etc. etc....
     
  32. May 21, 2013
  33. dionysus

    dionysus can turn wine into water CAG MM

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
    I'm a Canucklehead
    the casino's been down all day
     
  34. May 21, 2013
  35. MisterBJ

    MisterBJ Account suspended until further notice - please co

    Occupation:
    Fedex
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Is it 20 X B or 20 X B+D?
     
  36. May 22, 2013
  37. Keith Hathaway

    Keith Hathaway Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Affiliate Manager
    Location:
    Sliema, Malta
    Hi Guys,

    I am just back in the office today after a week out and have only just seen this thread. Please be assured I will update immediately after I have investigated.

    Thanks

    Keith
     
    1 person likes this.
  38. May 22, 2013
  39. Marie2473

    Marie2473 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Operator
    Location:
    Sweden
    This is "scary" for me since i am on to trust that the casinos that are accredited atleast know how much I have wagered when on a bonus.
    I will follow this thread to see what went wrong!
     

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