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bonus terms Ladbrokes!

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by alita55, Aug 30, 2011.

Tags:
    Aug 30, 2011
  1. alita55

    alita55 Dormant account

    Location:
    netherlands
    Made a first depost at Ladbrokes casino.I checked first with support if i was eligible for the 100%match bonus as i am a player from the netherlands.There was no problem support said.
    The bonus didnt show up in my account and i contacted support 4 times about this.
    After 4 days support told me i was not eligible.In the beginning of the terms you read this:

    The initial casino chip purchase must be turned over once (play through requirement) before the claim form can be filled in. Once the wagering requirement has been achieved, and the claim form filled in, the welcome bonus will be entered into the players bonus account within 48 hours.

    I red this and made my first deposit.

    At the end of the terms you will find this:

    As a result of bonus abuse, deposits made using Neteller and Moneybookers will be subject to a turnover requirement of 20 times the actual deposit level for all promotions. We reserve the right to recharge all banking fees on deposits, which are not turned over at this level. All other payment methods fall into the turnover requirements as specified in the rest of the terms and conditions of this promotional offer.

    My deposit was 27 euro,so this means i have to wager first 20x27euro=540euro to be eligible to get my first deposit bonus?????
    I never saw this rule.

    What do you think of this?
    Should they not post this rule very clear on the website??
     
  2. Aug 30, 2011
  3. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Shafted by the smallprint, shame on Ladbrokes.

    They are interpreting this term slightly differently to how players would normally understand. You might think it is just a case of the WR being much higher, but the way Ladbrokes has designed this makes it near impossible for any player to even qualify for the bonus if they use the wrong deposit method.

    My (then) VIP manager at Neteller says this shouldn't be happening, and that Neteller were unaware that merchants were doing this. I pointed out it was causing Neteller to lose business to other deposit methods at the increasing number of casinos that have this "we hate Neteller" attitude.
    It is stereotyping at the worst, no different to saying, "you are from the Netherlands, therefore you MUST be about to do something dishonest at our casinos". They CANNOT tell you are a "bonus abuser" until they have analysed your pattern of play. The added terms about charging even prevents you from withdrawing your deposit after finding out you were mislead by support NOT pointing out that using Neteller would disqualify you.

    The REAL "bonus abusers" simply switch to alternative deposit methods, as experienced "advantage players" would have everything needed to get around such rules put in place. They would also go through the terms carefully in order to spot any loopholes they might exploit.

    The best way to play the promotions at Ladbrokes is to get a credit or debit card and use this. Second best is to use methods like UKash and withdraw by cheque or bank transfer. The small, frequent, and generous bonuses offered by Ladbrokes makes UKash a good option if you would rather not use a card, or cards keep getting blocked by the bank.

    In terms of the mechanics of "bonus abuse", it doesn't matter where the deposit comes from, but how the games are played. To process credit card transactions, a casino has to pay MORE than for an eWallet. Neteller on the other hand, depend on casinos for most of their business, so a large company like Ladbrokes ought to be able to get a deal that keeps the charges down.

    The common method used for Ladbrokes bonuses is to deposit, wager it once to qualify, and then withdraw. This might be what Ladbrokes don't like, as they are hit by minimum fees for up to 31 small withdrawals per month. However, you can do EXACTLY the same with cards and Ukash, and they have to send you 31 cheques per month. Cleverer players will simply transfer the wagered deposits to the sportsbook, save them up, and then make a big withdrawal from the sportsbook at the end of the month. The aim is to wager the bonus without the deposit being present, a weakness Ladbrokes have created by the way they run promotions that force you to play before you get the bonus, and then wait 1 - 2 days for it. Most casinos credit a bonus with the deposit, leaving no opportunity to remove the deposit from risk before playing the bonus.

    Eventually, they will realise that the bonuses are getting abused through other deposit methods, and have to exclude them too.


    Apart from all this, they seem to have lost interest in the casino, since it has had no new games for over a year, and even after they signed a new deal with Microgaming there are STILL no reports of the new games turning up.

    They could get around the Neteller problem by speeding up the crediting of bonuses so that it happens as soon as the qualifying criteria are met, addition of the rule "bonuses will not be credited if the qualifying deposit is withdrawn or transferred between qualifying, and the bonus being released for crediting" will prevent the removal of deposits from risk when playing the bonus.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Aug 30, 2011
  5. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    I don't agree that he was "Shafted by the smallprint" - ALL players need to learn to read ALL the T&Cs at any new casino they try.
    I know it's a ball-ache, and I do agree that this is a stupid rule and should be more prominent (if not scrapped!), but if players can't be bothered to read ALL the terms they have no right to complain about it afterwards IMO.

    And you a bit off about the new games - it does FEEL like about 2 years :mad:, but actually Ladbrokes stopped taking the new games after December last year - so it's only 8 months.
    Someone posted recently they read they ARE now going to be adding some new games - I hope it's the full back catalogue!

    KK
     
    2 people like this.
  6. Aug 30, 2011
  7. steveh35

    steveh35 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    ..
    Location:
    doncaster
    New games are now on flash but not download the excellent GOLD FACTORY is on flash this is my build up game I have regularly pushed my deposit up on this slot. Riveria Riches also on Ladbrokes flash.
     
  8. Aug 30, 2011
  9. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    I am confused. Were you given the bonus or not? Are you complaining that you did not get the bonus or that the terms are different from what you expected?
     
  10. Aug 31, 2011
  11. alita55

    alita55 Dormant account

    Location:
    netherlands
    No i am not complaining that i didnt get the bonus.

    But comparing with other microgaming casino i thought that the bonus would be instant.Seems normal to me.
    Ladbrokes is the only microgaming casino where you have to turnover your first deposit 20x if
    you want to get your match bonus.This is only when you deposit with neteller.

    I asume that almost nobody will make this and lots of people dont expect this.
    For me this rule gives me a bad feeling to make me deposit again.

    But i totally agree when its in the terms,i am ok with it.
     
  12. Aug 31, 2011
  13. alita55

    alita55 Dormant account

    Location:
    netherlands
    Grandmaster,

    No i did not get the bonus:)
     
  14. Aug 31, 2011
  15. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    OK, shafted by the CS, who also didn't warn him that this very important and HIGHLY RELEVANT term would negate what they told him in chat about getting the bonus.

    This is not a minor increase in WR either, it is a TWENTY FOLD increase, and is designed to make it near impossible for Neteller depositors to actually qualify at all. You cannot even deposit more in the hope of making 20x because your WR just increases in line with however much you deposit. Other casinos using this method only require the QUALIFYING part of the deposit to be rolled over xx times, so players CAN deposit more to give them a safety net.

    Naturally, if you are out to abuse the boni, you would be clever enough to outsmart the system.

    1) Store a "slush fund" in the sportsbook that consists entirely of money clear of any restrictions. Do NOT use Neteller/Moneybookers to refloat this fund.
    2) Freshly deposit the required minimum into the casino for each promotion. If you can't make the rollover, add to it from the sportsbook, so that your rollover does not increase just because you had to deposit again.
    3) Retain Neteller deposits in the casino until ALL are clear of the 20x rollover. This way, part of the rollover can be completed when making WR on later boni, or qualifying for other promotions.
    4) Rather than deposit directly with Neteller, get the Net+ card and use it to buy UKash vouchers. These can then be used to deposit into the casino, with only a 1x qualifying rollover - yet it is still a Neteller funded deposit;) I think Moneybookers have something similar to the Net+ card. UKash can now be bought online with a card, and the voucher numbers emailed to you, so you don't even have to leave the house.

    The abusive players Ladbrokes are trying to get rid of are NOT being inconvenienced by this, as they have worked around it. It is the honest newbie that is being punished for what the "abusers" were doing some 3 years ago when the promotions were even more generous than now, and deposit options were fewer. For the "abusers", getting paid by cheque rather than back to Neteller is a small price to pay for the potential profits they can make.

    I could easily reinstall Ladbrokes and play Neteller free. I would still play in the same manner, yet I would be viewed completely differently by Ladbrokes for having taken a 3 year break and returning with a deposit method that they expect most "small time" players to be using, which is a card from a bank. They probably think that only "professional players" take the trouble and risk of running an eWallet.

    When the term first appeared, it was supposedly "temporary" and ONLY applied to Neteller. What happened? Well, a couple of months later they added Moneybookers to the list, so it is clear what all the "professional abusers" who used Neteller did;)

    Now they have a problem, as they can hardly add thinks like cards and UKash to the list because this would hit EVERY player, including the ones they want.

    I expect Click2Pay will be next on the list, higher risk than the other two, but an eWallet nevertheless. I expect quite a few of the former "bonus abusers" are now running Click2Pay, and being a little less obvious.

    Ladbrokes also tend to restrict some promotions to certain countries. They are mostly interested in the UK, so this gives KK an advantage.

    If I hear that they have started updating the games list, I may well go back there with my Barclaycard and 1x rollover, and use Neteller where it is appreciated.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Nov 3, 2011
  17. jazzup

    jazzup Dormant account

    Occupation:
    service
    Location:
    out
    No sign-up or first deposit bonus for me either.
    Wish I have chosen some other casino to play.
    And there is no way I'm going to play at Ladbrokes anymore.
     
  18. Nov 3, 2011
  19. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Do you feel mislead by the "big print" marketing, only to find out later that the "small print" meant you would never see this bonus.


    Another Ladbrokes term is that many of the promotions are "UK players only".

    They have never explained what is going on with Neteller and Moneybookers, other than the BS about "bonus abuse", which can occur whatever deposit method is used. I can even prove it to them with my Barclaycard if they are interested:p
     
  20. Nov 3, 2011
  21. corin69

    corin69 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    farmer
    Location:
    new zealand
    i got a question my englis not to good so i get wif to speel for me some time an read but she wasnt here wen i put mony in ladbroke so i put in $21 an get $7?
    no anser to emails so wat i do now? were my mony go? i wan to fix this or i take mony back out an clos acont
     
  22. Nov 4, 2011
  23. jazzup

    jazzup Dormant account

    Occupation:
    service
    Location:
    out

    Look vinylWM, their offer is "simples":

    <<... For a limited period at Ladbrokes Casino, we’re offering you a 100% match bonus when you make your 1st deposit between €/£5 and €/£500. Plus get free spins on our Slot of the Week!

    Step 1: Register & deposit your chosen amount
    Step 2: Play on any of our 540 games! Instant or Download
    Step 3: Fill in the claim form below

    That's it! Once you have turned over your deposit once, you will receive your match bonus! Simples... >>

    What they are asking to qualify for this offer is to turn your deposit over only once, or in other words just play and loose:

    << 8. The initial casino chip purchase must be turned over once (play through requirement) before the claim form can be filled in. Once the wagering requirement has been achieved, and the claim form filled in, the welcome bonus will be entered into the players bonus account within 48 hours. >>

    Now, I have played and lost, filled their form to claim and ..... nothing. Email unanswered. Not only 48hours , almost a week past.
    Do I be willing to come back to this casino....certainly NOT!
    And as you mentioned, who knows whats more lurking in their "small prints" for some other situations.
    Probably, bookers and casino is no no no way.
     
  24. Nov 4, 2011
  25. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Crap CS. I have had this experience when I played there.

    They have rejected your claim, even though you must have qualified. I expect you have failed to qualify because of some "smallprint" making the offer far from "simples".

    100% to €500 is a pretty high welcome offer, and a strong incentive for them to produce "smallprint" in order to reduce their liabilty.


    EDIT.


    I have had a look at their website, and it is littered with "spirit of the bonus" clauses. One such clause exists for the €500 welcome bonus, and they will refuse the claim if the qualifying play has breached the "spirit of the offer". If you deposit with Neteller or Moneybookers, you have to turn it over 20x before claiming, rather than the stated 1x. With the bullet points numbering over 20, this is far from "simples" when you take a closer look.

    There are other clauses that rather vaguely define WHICH welcome bonus you qualify for, and they involve both residency and the selected language of the install.

    You could have claimed via the wrong form, or played in a manner that breached the spirit of the bonus when rolling over your deposit. If you used Neteller/Moneybookers, you may have claimed too early, which is also against one of the clauses in the smallprint.


    The original advertising is misleading, as it describes the offer as "simples", and secondly, they have considerable scope available to them under this "spirit of the bonus" clause to void the claim. It seems the system is set up to refuse claims, rather than confiscate winnings, by assessing intent and "spirit" from the qualifying playthrough.

    I had to dig deep to find this smallprint, due to a lack of obvious links on the main page, and the offer summary. The home page terms link says nothing about promotional terms, neither does it provide a link to any.
     

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