Bitstarz vs KarinaLK

[AdamBetsMax]

REALLY stupid fucking move for @BitStarz

they did this to a friend of mine recently too.

do they actually think this is the reputation they want? I will be play there ever again.

 

[Playford7]

REALLY stupid fucking move for @BitStarz

they did this to a friend of mine recently too.

do they actually think this is the reputation they want? I will be play there ever again.

Thing is does a reputation really matter if they are making money? And they have a customer base?.
many utter shit casinos like 888 for example have been going for years and sponsored many entities, as long as they are promoted they will always have some whom sign up.

 

[samdog21]

Even when you are a low roller like me play through the bonus did not pay me my 400$ . Curacao run casinos bitcoin or cash. Scammers.

 

[Robert Rabbit]

i think this dunover is totally accurate in his words of that he says thank you.
i do free to admit, the bitcoins was my partners but of course i am the one playing what is wrong with that? i think they did deal with me very sexist manner suggest it is not possible a girl can win

Their argument is that you were playing with someone else's funds, you appear to have told them that the bitcoins were your partner's, and as it was a substantial amount of money $17,500 red flags would have been raised with regards to money laundering. (unless you lost it all in which case they wouldn't care, they care about dodgy money only if they are having to pay out!)

I'm not optimistic that this is going anywhere, not least that they appear to have refunded your second deposit and probably believe that is the end of the matter (but what happened to the first 0.5 Bitcoins you deposited - they are being very selective there).

Good luck with that PAB in Russian Max

 

[Robert Rabbit]

Thing is does a reputation really matter if they are making money? And they have a customer base?.
many utter shit casinos like 888 for example have been going for years and sponsored many entities, as long as they are promoted they will always have some whom sign up.

Casino ratings are like trustpilot ratings - fine until you are the one who gets screwed over, at that point people's views as to the validity of the rating are always going to be blighted.

I was surprised to see that Bitstarz are 12/217 (almost in the top 10) on the CM scale given their possession of a curacao licence, which everyone appears to state is about as much use a soggy piece of toilet paper. But then again I don't know how the ratings are worked out. The 9.3/10 does seem very much at odds with the 7.5 given by its customers (but see paragraph 1)

As for CM selling ratings - do me a favour - that's like a casino getting caught with a magnetic roulette wheel - the credibility you lose is worth far more than the money you make.

 

[X-Raided]

Alas cross-funding isn't really permitted in most casino terms, i.e. the named player must also be the named (or jointly-named if a joint bank account/card) source of the funds being gambled.

This is why they aren't paying her. Plain & simple. I'm sure Bitstarz would of paid her in full had she omitted that she played with her partner's BTC as previously stated. A proper PAB will find out the root cause of the confiscated winnings.

I do agree that the selfies are a bit excessive on the casino's part though.

I will be quite blunt.. That I don't feel sorry for you because high rollers should know already bitstarz is a scam there's literally hundreds of cases like this unjustified confiscations.
The only reason they have high ratings on askgamblers.com and casinomeister is they pay... Very very well (but not to customers It seems sadly who they view with contempt)

Wow...I couldn't disagree with you more. I followed the rules and Bitstarz paid me in a blink of an eye, every time.. Heck, I would even go as far as to say that they bent over backwards for me on several occasions, including adding a specific slot by BTG to their roster after nicely asking for it. Done within 2 days. I won't forget that.

I think what you stated about Bitstarz and about Casinomeister is down right ignorant. Sorry.

Er, no
It's based on quite bit of criteria combined with member experiences. - noone gets to 'buy' their accreditation

Correct. Member experiences rule the majority.

Also, there's two sides to each story. Why is everyone jumping on the licencing bandwagon without allowing Bitstarz to speak their part and tell their side of things?

If the OP feels like they've been done wrongly by the casino, submit a PAB and let the site
that accredited them do the detective work and be the judge & jury and assist you with collecting your funds... All we can do from our level on a thread is simply speculate and I don't think that's very fair to both parties involved.

 

[maxd]

i have changed the title ...

I'm sorry but that is not your choice to make. The original title was not appropriate and I've returned it to the modified version.

For the time being at least Bitstarz is an Accredited casino here and there is an established procedure for pursuing complaints. So no, you are not helpless, and using totally inflammatory thread titles is not the way forward.

 

[maxd]

I will be quite blunt. ... The only reason they have high ratings on askgamblers.com and casinomeister is they pay...

You've been around the site long enough to know that that is a load of BS, or at least you should. Casinos gain Accreditation when they are vetted through the Baptism By Fire process. When that ends Bryan evaluates the outcome and gives Accreditation if all is well. Casinos can also lose Accreditation when they no longer deserve it, as has been done many times here and is very much part of the public record.

Making casual accusations suggesting we're bent and would stoop to the underhanded BS you suggest is destructive to the site and everything we've worked to achieve here. I will be quite blunt: prove it or keep spurious comments like that to yourself, please and thank you.

... Cm has started to feature them with a high rating all of a sudden too ...

By "all of a sudden" you mean the 60+ day public Baptism By Fire process that they went through here? See here for their BBF if you need reminding. FTR, if you had concerns about this casino that would have been an ideal time to speak up. I see that you did not so coming back now to say that we're bent because they bought it is ... well ... pretty much a load of BS, as previously mentioned.

Also, the vast majority of the Rating is determined by a clearly defined set of criteria: see here for details. If the casino has a high rating it's because that's what they've earned, at least at the time of Accreditation. Bryan does reserve a small bit of the overall Rating for his personal evaluation, 5% or less as I recall.

 

[mina1929]

This is why they aren't paying her. Plain & simple. I'm sure Bitstarz would of paid her in full had she omitted that she played with her partner's BTC as previously stated. A proper PAB will find out the root cause of the confiscated winnings.

I do agree that the selfies are a bit excessive on the casino's part though.




Wow...I couldn't disagree with you more. I followed the rules and Bitstarz paid me in a blink of an eye, every time.. Heck, I would even go as far as to say that they bent over backwards for me on several occasions, including adding a specific slot by BTG to their roster after nicely asking for it. Done within 2 days. I won't forget that.

I think what you stated about Bitstarz and about Casinomeister is down right ignorant. Sorry.



Correct. Member experiences rule the majority.

Also, there's two sides to each story. Why is everyone jumping on the licencing bandwagon without allowing Bitstarz to speak their part and tell their side of things?

If the OP feels like they've been done wrongly by the casino, submit a PAB and let the site
that accredited them do the detective work and be the judge & jury and assist you with collecting your funds... All we can do from our level on a thread is simply speculate and I don't think that's very fair to both parties involved.

Totally agree, I had the best experience with Bitstarz and they do pay fast, customer service is tops and Olle our rep is one of the best. In my opinion they deserve to be accredited and they also have the right to investigate if there is any suspicion in game play.

I am not defending the casino, maybe I am but who cares

 

[Halvor]

Well it is very obvious on askgamblers. I believe they have the highest rating of any other casino there.
Cm has started to feature them with a high rating all of a sudden too, which is surprising given their licensing and number of complaints. So forgive my suspicious mind.

Most and least crooked (IMO) (but accredited) online casinos list

Almost like you got an agenda here!

So what made you include CM this time?

 

[BitStarz]

Hi guys,

Giving my five cents here on behalf of us at BitStarz.

Just to address a few points that were brought up by some people here claiming we're some kind of scam and pay for positioning at AskGamblers and CM. By doing that you're not just insulting us, but two of the most respected forums in the industry, and I don't think either one of them would stake their reputation on that. Also, bear in mind that we're a small operator in relation to the giant operators out there, so thinking that we could somehow pull something like that off would be to overestimate the size and power of BitStarz and undermine the integrity of the two largest affiliate sites.

As Max pointed out as well, we go through the same process as all the other accredited casinos, including the 60 days BOF where everyone has their say.

I also saw there were some people here who claimed we had confiscated funds from their friends. I think all casinos out there has done that at some point and I don't think the interesting question is if they did it, but why they did it. Furthermore, search for any casino on google followed by the word "scam" and I'm sure you'll see that pretty much all of them are accused of being one somewhere.

If you have a friend who had funds confiscated by us, I would ask that friend what the explanation for doing so was. If the reply was "I have no idea, they just took my money", I would be quite skeptical to be fair. We've always given our side of the story openly for everyone to see and always welcomed PAB's here at CasinoMeister.

Despite what some might think, there are cases where confiscation of winnings is justified (for serious breaches of the TnC's), but we also have a responsibility to ensure we're not acting in a predatory manner. We always have to make a judgment call if we have legitimate reasons to act a certain way because I can assure you that confiscating without any evidence is not going to make you last long as an operator in this industry.

As for the case in this thread, I'm happy for the player to log a PAB request with @maxd so we can handle this in a structured and fact-based manner. I respect anyone's opinion about BitStarz, good or bad. You may love us or hate us, and that's fine either way. But regardless of what you think about us, I think everyone can agree to both sides of a dispute presenting their case and an unbiased party (CM) making a call on it.

Olle

 

[Playford7]

Casino ratings are like trustpilot ratings - fine until you are the one who gets screwed over, at that point people's views as to the validity of the rating are always going to be blighted.

I was surprised to see that Bitstarz are 12/217 (almost in the top 10) on the CM scale given their possession of a curacao licence, which everyone appears to state is about as much use a soggy piece of toilet paper. But then again I don't know how the ratings are worked out. The 9.3/10 does seem very much at odds with the 7.5 given by its customers (but see paragraph 1)

As for CM selling ratings - do me a favour - that's like a casino getting caught with a magnetic roulette wheel - the credibility you lose is worth far more than the money you make.

I beg your pardon?.. ive never once stated CM sells ratings.

 

[Casinomeister]

Jeesus - I have to explain the rating system here AGAIN?

The rating system is by for the most transparent and fair rating system anywhere on the internet.

There are two scores: the CM score and the Meister Minion (User) score:



The CM score is based on a mathematical formula which is explained here:

Casino Reviews: Rating System Explanation - Casinomeister

Here is Bitstarz raw score from the backend:

Bitstarz,y,.8,fewplat,curacao,3,3,0,n,n,y,2014,102019,n,../../casino-reviews/bitstarz/

First column (comma separated) is the casino name
Column 2: yes or no accredited (no score involved - it only allows the casino to be listed in the accred list)
Meister Ratings

Column 3: meister points - here it is .8 - the Meister points are explained in the ratings page. Here they have .2 points for posting regularly in the forum - engaging players, .2 points for coming up with promotions here, .2 points for being extremely responsive and helpful to casino complaints (public and non-public PABs), .2 points for maintaining a Casinomeister philosophy on how to treat players. I have met the folks behind Bitstarz a number of times, and I trust them to do the right thing when it comes to player issues. = .8 points total. If they were to win an award here it would max out to 1 point

Column 4: Software platforms - they have a few.
Column 5: Licensing jurisdiction - low score
Column 6: Average payout time 3 hrs - max score
Column 7: Average reverse time 3 hrs - high score
Column 8: Withdrawal limit 0 = max score
Column 9: Publicly traded = n
Column 10: Locks withdrawals = n
Column 11: weekend payment processing = y
Column 12: The year they launched (yes there is a score for longevity)
Column 13: date of accreditation (yes, another score for longevity)
Column 14: Seal of certification yes or no - here it's an "n"

So the casino could actually up their score by zeroing out their reverse time (which would also give them a "y" for locking withdrawals (almost the same thing). They could also become certified which would give them .3 points as well. Or they could win an award which would add .2 to their Meister points. Thus maxing that score out to a 1.

The bottom line is this is a fair and well thought out rating system based on features and functions of the casino itself.

The Meister Minion score is what the MMs post in the Meister Minion forum - which is based only on their opinions - which I respect. I update this as often as possible, and the MMs can change their ratings whenever they want.

 

[Casinomeister]

I will be quite blunt.. That I don't feel sorry for you because high rollers should know already bitstarz is a scam there's literally hundreds of cases like this unjustified confiscations.
The only reason they have high ratings on askgamblers.com and casinomeister is they pay... Very very well (but not to customers It seems sadly who they view with contempt)

You're a troll. Fuck off and bye.

 

[abuyang]

This whole PAB process looks like a method to silence the problems. The casino representative in his 1000 words post has totally avoided explaining their actions against Karina (the user) as if we were dealing with some nuclear bomb secrets here. Now Karina will be told to shut up too (one of the main conditions for PAB). So, the problem is effectively moved under the table. Why? Who benefits from this "silencing" process? Definitely not the OP and not the gamblers' community as a whole.

 

[Casinomeister]

Streamer conversation moved to here:
Bitstarz and streamers

 

[thr0b]

This whole PAB process looks like a method to silence the problems. The casino representative in his 1000 words post has totally avoided explaining their actions against Karina (the user) as if we were dealing with some nuclear bomb secrets here. Now Karina will be told to shut up too. So, the problem is effectively moved under the table. Why? Who benefits from this "silencing" process? Definitely not the OP and not the gamblers' community as a whole.

Except the rep has said he can't give specifics. The player can raise a PAB. If it is found that the casino is in the wrong, I have no doubt we will be told - less player-specifics. There's nothing wrong here.

 

[Casinomeister]

This whole PAB process looks like a method to silence the problems. The casino representative in his 1000 words post has totally avoided explaining their actions against Karina (the user) as if we were dealing with some nuclear bomb secrets here. Now Karina will be told to shut up too (one of the main conditions for PAB). So, the problem is effectively moved under the table. Why? Who benefits from this "silencing" process? Definitely not the OP and not the gamblers' community as a whole.

WTF? Yeah right, we created the PAB process twenty years ago to suppress and silence problems. Don't get me started unless you want to end up like Degan.

 

[maxd]

I was surprised to see that Bitstarz are 12/217 (almost in the top 10) on the CM scale given their possession of a curacao licence, which everyone appears to state is about as much use a soggy piece of toilet paper. ...

A few words about the Curacao license seem to be in order.

Curacao does not license casinos directly. They have 4 Master Licenses, each held by a different company (?), and those Master License holders then sell off sub-licenses to individual casinos.

In and of itself a Curacao license isn't worth spit because Curacao does nothing to police and regulate individual casinos. In other words it's all up to the Master License holder: if they are willing to police their sub-licensees then there is (at least) something in place to help ensure than the licensees behave themselves.

If however the Master License holder does nothing but sell sub-licenses then, as you can imagine, there is nothing to keep the sub-license holder from doing whatever they please. In other words players can get screwed en-mass and there is nothing anyone is going to do about it.

So the bottom line is that a Curacao license is only as good as the people who hold the sub-license. If they are douchebags then the players are going to get douched. If they are good people -- and yes, some certainly are, several of which we've worked closely with for many years -- then the players have nothing to worry about.

So is a casino shit if it holds a Curacao license? Not necessarily. Again refer to the nature of Curacao licensing: if the casino is run by good people then the casino is going to be a good place. If that is not the case ... run, don't walk, elsewhere. How can you know who is good and who isn't? Check the reviews, ask, do your research. There is no one-size fits all way to measure Curacao licensees.

FTR see this article on the four Curacao Master Licenses: Curaçao and Their Four Master License Holders

And last but not least I should say this: there has been a move VERY recently for some of the Curacao Master License holders to start cracking down on their sub-licensees. This is NOT a centralized effort by Curacao as much as the Master License holders would like people to believe it is. It is simply an effort by a couple of the Master License holders to extract their reputations from the bog hole they've been wallowing in for years. That said, any improvement is welcome so good on them for it.

 

[Borgie]

This whole PAB process looks like a method to silence the problems. The casino representative in his 1000 words post has totally avoided explaining their actions against Karina (the user) as if we were dealing with some nuclear bomb secrets here. Now Karina will be told to shut up too (one of the main conditions for PAB). So, the problem is effectively moved under the table. Why? Who benefits from this "silencing" process? Definitely not the OP and not the gamblers' community as a whole.

The PAB process is sound. If you think there is no benefit to it do not use it.

The OP has admitted they used their partners Bitcoin. Using someone elses money, currency what ever to play is a massive no no.

The casino could have the best or worse licence in the world almost certainly same outcome

 

[abuyang]

WTF? Yeah right, we created the PAB process twenty years ago to suppress and silence problems. Don't get me started unless you want to end up like Degan.

Things have changed a lot since then. Anybody interested can find the threads of 10-15 years ago and see how things have actually changed. In the past, the problems were discussed openly. These days the main feature of the PAB process is "no public discussion". And the representatives seem happy to play this game. Look at the example above. Instead of explaining the casino's action in a couple of sentences, the Bitstarz representative referred everybody to the "holy" and secret PROCESS of PAB. Come on...

 

[Playford7]

Things have changed a lot since then. Anybody interested can find the threads of 10-15 years ago and see how things have actually changed. In the past, the problems were discussed openly. These days the main feature of the PAB process is "no public discussion". And the representatives seem happy to play this game. Look at the example above. Instead of explaining the casino's action in a couple of sentences, the Bitstarz representative referred everybody to the "holy" and secret PROCESS of PAB. Come on...

You aware away the PAB process has actually helped loads of members in the past?
where was the Masonic like conspiracy you seem to think was at play on those occasions?.

 

[abuyang]

The PAB process is sound. If you think there is no benefit to it do not use it.

The OP has admitted they used their partners Bitcoin. Using someone elses money, currency what ever to play is a massive no no.

The casino could have the best or worse licence in the world almost certainly same outcome

For example, I borrow 100$ from my friend and play at Bitstarz. Are they allowed to confiscate any of my winnings based on that? How do you define "someone else's money"?

 

[Robert Rabbit]

For example, I borrow 100$ from my friend and play at Bitstarz. Are they allowed to confiscate any of my winnings based on that? How do you define "someone else's money"?

Get ready for an affordability check as soon as you admit you have borrowed money off of a friend to gamble The issue here is that the OP actually admitted that the $17,500 worth of bit coin she pumped through the slots came from someone else, which is just asking for a face palming when it comes to withdrawing any winnings.

In this case it is not just the money it is also the scale of the gift/loan/donation whatever you wish to call it.

 

[KarinaLK]

Thanking responses but I am a bit disgust this bitstarz response so big post and not one mention about my case or even attempt defend they actions Because they are Very are arrogant and do not care.
And here is a funny forum it seem you can not speak freely (I am told it is not my decision what thread title is..?!