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Casino Complaint Beware! Predatory unfair terms of Box24, Black Diamond - play at your own risk!!

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by Despair, Oct 8, 2013.

    Oct 8, 2013
  1. Despair

    Despair Dormant account PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Dreamer
    Location:
    USA
    I was looking for a good Top Game Casino and I tried out casinos at Deckmedia Casino group.

    After talking to a very helpful agent for close to an hour on live chat, making sure I understand all the wagering requirement that tied with the bonus, I chose the welcome bonus of 200% understanding that I have a 25X wagering requirement. They are well aware that I am not familiar with slots based casino and bonus system - I have only played at casino with no bonus and wagering requirement.

    With a streak of bad and then good luck, I won about $1500 and tried to check that my wagering requirement is fulfilled and what else I need to do before withdrawing, but during that conversation - I found out that there is a $6.5 wagering limit. Besides a mistake I made early on, all my higher than $6.5 bets were made after I have won $600+, I immediately stopped playing and tried to ask for help since I was totally unaware of that.

    To cut the story short, my entire winnings was confiscated - which I didn't contest - I thought perhaps it is maybe unfair if other players have comply with the $6.5 rules, but for sure I am upset that they have done nothing to make sure I am aware of such rule when I signed up.

    However, the WORST part is that they removed ALL bonus, leaving me with deposit only, BUT still force me to fulfill the WITH BONUS wagering requirement and tie all the restrictions related to it. And that is in fact much worse off than the rogue casinos that take your winnings, refund your deposit and kick you out since

    1) the slots have worse payout ratio - when I won many good bonus games,
    2) the casino pockets my winnings and wouldn't rewager back to the machine, and
    3) I have to wager with no cushioning of the bonus.

    Despite they claim to understand my situation and would help, taking the winnings was NOT enough, they have to condemned me to a situation that for sure I will lose my deposit. How can that be fair?

    I contested this 'generous' offer of theirs and made the above points politely and asked for a "fair" second chance to let me start from deposits with bonus and restrictions, OR with only my deposits - then with requirement of a straight deposit, especially when they pocketed my winnings already.

    The result - after long email exchanges - is that they refunded me my deposits and BANNED me from all their casinos..

    IS that fair?

    The truth is - they may have less payment complaints than other rogue casinos - perhaps only to attract fellow players to deposit and write good reviews, BUT It does NOT change the fact that they set terms and conditions that are predatory and put players in highly unfair situations, trapping players who did not read T&Cs carefully, make a mistake and just confiscate their winnings.

    The disgusting part is that they claim to be generous and understand it was a mistake but penalize me fully to be fair to other players, yet they pocketed my winnings and force me to play with restrictions that make it more than likely I could only lose. The experienced agents are well ware of my being new to slots site yet offer me all the deposit and bonus options without telling me all the conditions tied to it. So it is not just terms and conditions that are unfair, the way they operate is unfair too.

    So how much trust worthy are they from any other rogue sites? Wolves are wolves, not matter they are in sheep's clothings or not, no matter they pay or not. They may pay you today but invite players to play, make mistake and kick them out, the RTP is really not the 90 something percent they claim, players are still playing under unfair conditions without being aware of it. I can't wait till legislation pass to protect US players.

    Play at your own risk and definitely read all T&Cs periodically since it is not there to protect fairness or players, only their business.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2013
  2. Oct 8, 2013
  3. maphesto

    maphesto Ueber Meister CAG MM webmeister

    Location:
    Sweden
    Did you not agree to some terms before signing up? :confused:

    To add: If there really was wrong terms when you signed up you might ask Ms Sloto for help! She is their rep here.
     
  4. Oct 8, 2013
  5. Borgie

    Borgie Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Office Manager
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Sorry OP but you need to familairise yourself with the rules and terms and conditions before you take a bonus. The casino have done nothing wrong at all.
     
  6. Oct 8, 2013
  7. Despair

    Despair Dormant account PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Dreamer
    Location:
    USA

    I was unaware of the $6.5 limit when I deposited - and is definitely not my usual practice. I was very tired that day and was given many options - no bonus, 200% 300% 4000% etc - I asked about the conditions that ties to it and they explained it with the different wagering requirement - without mentioning the $6.5 limit.

    Secondly, the most unfair part I feel is not the winnings being removed - that is probably mentioned in T & C. but forced to wager with conditions that tie with bonus but only have my deposits. That to me is most unfair and not something I remember reading anywhere from T&C. This is double/triple penalization
     
  8. Oct 8, 2013
  9. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    You got you deposit back, no foul here. But the part where they tried to tie WR to your deposit AFTER removing the bonus/winnings is wrong, but then they did refund the deposit eventually. Always read T&C'S thoroughly.
     
    2 people like this.
  10. Oct 8, 2013
  11. Despair

    Despair Dormant account PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Dreamer
    Location:
    USA
    I did ask in detail when every bonus options were tied with different wagering requirement that were not mentioned at all in T&Cs.

    And this is NOT a complaint of bonus violation with winnings removed - I did not spend a min fighting for my winnings.
     
  12. Oct 8, 2013
  13. Cleveland

    Cleveland Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Professional problem solver
    Location:
    Texas
    They aren't going to be able to go in full detail about the ends and outs of a bonus for every user that ask a general question. That's what the T&Cs are for.

    Are you saying you can't WD your original deposit without wagering? Or if you keep playing you have the original WR on it?
     
  14. Oct 8, 2013
  15. Despair

    Despair Dormant account PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Dreamer
    Location:
    USA
    Exactly - you get my point - "When they tried to tie WR to your deposit AFTER removing the bonus/winnings is wrong! "
    And this is the part I was very upset about when they know how hard I try to understand all terms that specifically tie to my bonus choices before I deposit. But they insisted on tying WR for days, when I tell them that it is not something I can accept since it is unfair -

    They also WOULD NOT REFUND when they know their part -

    They ONLY refunded because they know I would write my story exactly as is, and was going to dispute with credit card company. So is there really no foul? Both they and I know I can dispute it, they just act out quicker, so that when the story is out, they look better. The stand they take was clear - it was not about fairness, it was self-serving.

    I just feel horrible that I let them take my winnings but contest the tie of WR to my deposit AFTER removing the bonus - their decision is banning me. This tells you how much they care about fairness and in the world of no US legislation to protect online players, casino can just play god and treat you however they want.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2013
  16. Oct 8, 2013
  17. Cleveland

    Cleveland Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Professional problem solver
    Location:
    Texas
    Ok nevermind. You received money back so nothing wrong here.
     
  18. Oct 8, 2013
  19. Despair

    Despair Dormant account PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Dreamer
    Location:
    USA
    I did not ask a general question, I spent an hour asking them full details coz the many deposit bonus options were confusing and tied to different restrictions not explained in detail with T&C.

    Yes, I was not able to withdraw, I have to wager like I have bonus with 25X $6.5 limit etc, and while a straight no bonus deposit have only 1X wagering and NO limit to how much I bet per line. And all I ask is to remove this restriction when I have no bonus now, they banned me but refunded the deposit.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2013
  20. Oct 8, 2013
  21. Despair

    Despair Dormant account PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Dreamer
    Location:
    USA
    They won't give me my money back for days until they know I will revert the transaction from my credit card and write about it.
     
  22. Oct 8, 2013
  23. Cleveland

    Cleveland Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Professional problem solver
    Location:
    Texas
    So the nice rep spoke with you for an hour trying their best to explain things instead of telling you to go read the T&Cs that should of been read. Then the casino later refunds your deposit instead of keeping it (like in another thread).

    Sounds like good customer service to me. Sorry not seeing why you're so upset. :eek2:

    They didn't give you the money back because they were scared of a possible chargeback or write up.
     
  24. Oct 8, 2013
  25. Despair

    Despair Dormant account PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Dreamer
    Location:
    USA
    The T&Cs did not have the breakdown of the conditions of all the different requirements of each bonus category.
    Each bonus has different conditions.

    Yes - that particular customer service person did provide good customer service, except that he did not mentioned the
    crucial $6.5. And because of the good service of one agent, I am writing as precise as I can with the situation.

    But I am sure, they only give me my money back because they want to look better in the situation or else they would have given me my money back way earlier on. That was NOT an option at all to have a refund.
    They intentionally tie the WR and claimed that is fair.
    Of course they are not scared of a possible chargeback, nor do I care about losing a few hundred. If I don't lose here, I lose elsewhere.

    But the issue here is whether it is fair to a player or not to tie the WR when I only have the deposit now - and asking to untie the WR deserves being kicked out and banned.
    They already benefited and penalized me when they remove the winnings.
    I believe tying the conditions and requirement with bonus when only the deposit remained is wrong, as agreed with the other member who posted above, but when you contest and explained your perspective and ask for reconsideration, knowing you are someone who could win on the site, they insist to give you unfair terms. However, only when you plan to chargeback and share your story? You are banned and refunded. And this is exactly what I am upset about.

    If you still can't understand what I am upset about - imagine yourself depositing $500, won $10K, all bonuses and winnings removed, the site has a 1X wagering for straight deposit, but now you lost hours of playing and stuck with $500, 40X wagering requirement, not allowed to wager high per bet with slots with low payout, and after expressing your view that having Bonus rules tied to the straight deposit remained in amount is wrong - they insist that the only option is play with handicapped conditions and requirement, when you won't accept and tell them it is only fair if no WR tied, they still won't change their decision (This part is no longer part of T&C), after you inform again that it is wrong and will write about and may dispute the amount, knowing that the story will be public, they immediately refund you and ban you. From beginning till end - there were no intent to have a fair resolution for both parties. This is what this the post is about. My situation clearly reflects the stand of the casino - predatory until it would be exposed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2013
  26. Oct 8, 2013
  27. skiny

    skiny Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas

    Occupation:
    Doing everyone else's job.
    Location:
    Canada
    It took about 3 seconds to find this at Box24 and Black Diamond.

    Instead of talking to a support rep next time, just click the promotions link and read the terms and conditions yourself.
     
    1 person likes this.
  28. Oct 9, 2013
  29. Despair

    Despair Dormant account PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Dreamer
    Location:
    USA
    As mentioned this post is NOT about winnings removed.
    I definitely will never join a new site when half sleepy again, lol, I did skim those T&Cs and did not mention anything about 4 or 5 different bonus or the rules attached. after long conversation about the every bonus tied to all the different terms and "triple" verifying thinking I got the best information with CS - the difference between no bonus, 200%, I forgot about what I read already. That is why I did not spent a min fighting for bonus. It is unfortunate to lose the winnings yet it is my fault to let my guards down - and not think after I was reassured that the only difference between no bonus and 200% welcome bonus is the 25X wagering requirement.

    The post is about after letting them take away your winnings, they only let you have your deposit back BUT tie wagering requirement for people WITH bonus - is it a fair a site to double/triple penalize you that they don't just take away the winnings, they make you play with disadvantage so that you more than likely will NOT just lose winnings but even the deposit itself? Would you be ok that you make the mistake, lose the winnings but can't get your deposit back and must wager under conditions that you are very likely to lose all your deposits too? Are you ok with them not letting you withdraw and play as cash deposits? Are you ok if you tell them the tie to wagering at that point is wrong and unfair, they ignore you and lecture you for an hour? Are you ok that you get so upset you think it is unfair that they basically did not just want the take the winnings, they set terms with ulterior motive so you will more than likely to lose your deposit too, you decide to dispute with credit card company and discuss this story - oh NOW - the casino is refunding you and ban you forever when the unfair plan didn't panned out and other players may know? When you have gone through the whole ordeal - when they have ulterior motive to make you even lose your original deposit, with such greed and unfairness, and now you wonder - perhaps it was intentional in the first place to not mention the $6.5 during the initial chat, knowing you are half confused and relying on them. And now the purpose of my post -> if you ever question and would not accept an unfair term - (play with disadvantage and lose your deposit as well, taking your winning is NOT enough) they kick and ban you -> so players BEWARE and they may be paying at this point, but they are NOT a fair site. You could encounter situations that are predatory and unfair. But with my extensive posts here, I hope they know that whenever they decide to put players in unfair grounds, they could be exposed and rethink before they do.

    There are certain positive posts that they do pay - better than rogue sites, but it does not change that they still target to profit from predatory business practice. So never let your guards down and make the mistake I did.
     
  30. Oct 9, 2013
  31. Mouche12

    Mouche12 Kitty Lover PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    Translator and facilities manager
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    I agree, the casino should REMOVE the WR attached to the bonus (which was removed, as well as the winnings) when you were left with your deposit only.

    As to the T&Cs, when I am confused I write an email, which I did the other day about the max bet size being 10% of the bonus (for Dutch players) at a particular NetEnt casino, or as an exception a maximum of € 5 applicable to all players. I now know that even when the bonus is € 40, I am allowed to bet a maximum of € 5. I have it in writing...
     
    1 person likes this.
  32. Oct 9, 2013
  33. Despair

    Despair Dormant account PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Dreamer
    Location:
    USA
    Thank you so much for your support. but it's too late, when you disagree with that, they don't care and would ban you!
    But if we players expose all such situations and support each other of the unfair ways casino try to put players in disadvantage, it will help things going forward. Players would be triple alert, with less pot loss confiscated and pocketed by casinos. The casino would also rethink before trying other wicked ways to not pay. Maybe one day there will be fair online casinos like Las Vegas ones that really try to profit from commission from pots and value players that wager a lot and not try to find ways to get the players deposit and hard earned winnings.
     
  34. Oct 9, 2013
  35. bsilva028

    bsilva028 Banned : multi-account fraudster PABnoaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    salesman
    Location:
    portugal
    sorry but
    rules are rules

    nothing of wrong here on their part.
    that max bet exists in all their group of casinos not only on top game ones

    lots of acredited casinos also applys maximum bet rules, if its not in a fixed a vlaue its in a fixed % like most of mg ones

    players should read ALL the T&C´s BEFORE join any casino.

    it looks like you take hours reading because they are too long? yes, but will avoid this kind of problems, and if you dont like even if its 1 rule, dont join that casino and search by another.
     
  36. Oct 9, 2013
  37. Despair

    Despair Dormant account PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Dreamer
    Location:
    USA
    Please read my other posts - This is not about winning confiscation. That part I totally accept it was my mistake.

    This post is about wanting to take even your deposits too and their practice is predatory. T&C only mention winnings removed and I have not contested that. regardless thank you for your post - perhaps I didn't make it clear from First post that it is NOT about winning removed, and I should edit my first post.
     
  38. Oct 9, 2013
  39. bsilva028

    bsilva028 Banned : multi-account fraudster PABnoaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    salesman
    Location:
    portugal
    i read, and yes, even if you only betted higher than $6.5 after hit $600 was broken and they can confiscate the winnings

    they returned your initial deposit, without any bonus, yes, so they did not stay with your money.
    they have said in live chat or in e-mail you that you have WR on a returned deposit, but, with no bonus atatched?

    if yes, contact their rep here: http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/sloto.html and explain that

    i think if they have returned only the deposit, i agree that should be with no wr
    if they returned the deposit plus the bonus atatched to begin from 0, than its a 2nd chance they are giving you
     

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