beware PKR.com

[Rusty]

This is the most rigged site I have ever played but if you don't want to take my word for it check out their website and see at the bottom of the page it states licensed by the UK gambling commission.
That would be impressive credentials if it were true but note how there is no link.
They are actually licensed by the Alderny gaming commission (LOL) and that was 2006!
Only a rogue operator would pull a stunt like this.

I have informed the UK gambling commission just to be 100% they do not license these people.

Old Attachment (Invalid)

If you want a real laugh try their deal or no deal game.
I admit I only tried it once but after only 2 rounds on autopick I had taken out the 5 top prizes LMAO

 

[Fleur-De-Lis]

Hi Rusty,
this thread would make an interesting reading, I trust
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/pkr-revoking-bonus-for-no-reason.25696/

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi Rusty,
this thread would make an interesting reading, I trust
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/pkr-revoking-bonus-for-no-reason.25696/

It would indeed!!

I was able to get hold of a PDF copy of their UK Gaming licence, supposedly issued in September 2007, but it struck me that there had been media reports that NOT ONE online casino had applied!! (Due mainly to having to pay 15% tax, as against 2% or so at other whitelisted juristictions).
A reply from the UK Gambling Commission would be very interesting, although it seems their Alderney licence is still active, even though granted in 2006. If it were not, then they would have told "topoor" that they could not investigate.

 

[Rusty]

I played off my remaining balance in a sit n go.
I was in last 3 and had AK SB raised BB reraised all in I called.
He has 10 10
Flop 10,Q,4 he has trips
turn J I have straight
river 10 he has quads


That is a pretty standard thing at this site, it makes prima look realistic

 

[Fleur-De-Lis]

Any idea what 'PKR' abbreviation stands for?
The only thing that comes to my mind is a 'Pakistanee Rupee' LOL

 

[Rusty]

Any idea what 'PKR' abbreviation stands for?
The only thing that comes to my mind is a 'Pakistanee Rupee' LOL

I just spent 5 Minutes trying to think of a witty reply but then realised I am neither amusing or ingenious

All I could come up with is Porker, which is a bit of a pig

 

[Snake Eyes]

As I just mentioned in the other thread;


I believe their UK licence is a Software Operating Licence (Remote) - which authorises their software development

Their casino and poker operations are conducted under an AGCC licence

 

[TheBoyMitchell]

PKR is short for Poker - Like text speak

 

[fatshaft]

This is the most rigged site I have ever played but if you don't want to take my word for it check out their website and see at the bottom of the page it states licensed by the UK gambling commission.
That would be impressive credentials if it were true but note how there is no link.
They are actually licensed by the Alderny gaming commission (LOL) and that was 2006!
Only a rogue operator would pull a stunt like this.

I have informed the UK gambling commission just to be 100% they do not license these people.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

The link from the UK Gambling Commision text (click on 'licensed') on their footer takes you through to an explanation of what is licensed, they also display the Alderney logo.

So now that we've got that mis-statement out of the way, why is it rigged? What stats do you have to back this up other than you're losing?

 

[Rusty]

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

The link from the UK Gambling Commision text (click on 'licensed') on their footer takes you through to an explanation of what is licensed, they also display the Alderney logo.

So now that we've got that mis-statement out of the way, why is it rigged? What stats do you have to back this up other than you're losing?

I think you mean misstatement but a Man is entitled to his Hyphens.

But what misstatement is that?
The site is NOT licensed by the UK gambling commission, they are simply licensed to provide software by them, hence the fact the site is licensed by Alderney.
Advertising on the Homepage of this site that they are licensed by the UK gambling commission is misleading.

Seems you have made a misstatement about my mis-statement.

I wont even qualify your other question with a reply.
Play there by all means.

 

[fatshaft]

I think you mean misstatement but a Man is entitled to his Hyphens.

But what misstatement is that?
The site is NOT licensed by the UK gambling commission, they are simply licensed to provide software by them, hence the fact the site is licensed by Alderney.
Advertising on the Homepage of this site that they are licensed by the UK gambling commission is misleading.

It's not misleading if you click the link (which you said didn't work - were you deliberately misleading?), nor is it misleading that they also have a clear AGCC logo posted above the text about the UKGC.

I wont even qualify your other question with a reply.
Play there by all means.

Nothing to back up your claims then?

 

[lots0]

PKR Ltd has been evaluated by Gaming Associates

Source: xxhttp://www.pkr.com/about-pkr/pkr-integrity.cfm

Gaming Associates... The same group that gave the cheaters at Absolute Poker a clean bill... really makes me want to trust pkr ltd.... NOT!

I also agree with Rusty, the way the UK Gambling Commission link is set up on PKR's main page is misleading and it looks to me to be intentionally misleading, a very bad thing.

They (PKR.com) are not licensed by the UK Gambling Commission. However at the very bottom of their main page is says on one line in no uncertain terms, "Licensed by the UK Gambling Commission". That is misleading, no doubt about it.

If pkr are willing to mislead players in this way, I would find it very very hard to trust them at all with my money.

 

[Rusty]

It's not misleading if you click the link (which you said didn't work - were you deliberately misleading?), nor is it misleading that they also have a clear AGCC logo posted above the text about the UKGC.


Nothing to back up your claims then?

Look, the link is only on the word licensed in the sentence "licensed by the UK gambling commission" (Why?) and that takes you to them waffling about being the only software provider licensed in the UK, they then go on to say the site is licensed by Alderney under said link.
If you do not find that misleading then that is fine but I do for the reasons I have stated.

As for backing up my claims that it is rigged One deposit was enough but any stats would show how ludicrously often I lost to turn/river or river when infront (all in) or in other words when they needed runner,runner or river with only Two outs.
Sure that can happen over a short period of play but the game really did not feel right.
3 handed A's V 10's V 8's ...10's win on river, that sort of thing, read my other posts.
Anything could be a bad beat as an isolated incident but when this stuff keeps happening every time you have just got your balance positive it gets your attention.
Sit n Go tournies this is so I can not say about the cash games.


YOU SHOULD PLAY THERE since you are convinced it is a fair game, why is that by the way?

 

[Snake Eyes]

As for backing up my claims that it is rigged One deposit was enough but any stats would show how ludicrously often I lost to turn/river or river when infront (all in) or in other words when they needed runner,runner or river with only Two outs.
Sure that can happen over a short period of play but the game really did not feel right.
3 handed A's V 10's V 8's ...10's win on river, that sort of thing, read my other posts.
Anything could be a bad beat as an isolated incident but when this stuff keeps happening every time you have just got your balance positive it gets your attention.
Sit n Go tournies this is so I can not say about the cash games.


YOU SHOULD PLAY THERE since you are convinced it is a fair game, why is that by the way?

I play there too, and have no problem with it. I think claiming that a poker room is rigged with little to no evidence, other than a couple of anecdotal bad beats (particularly in sit and go tournaments) is a strong statement to make

 

[Rusty]

Yes they are strong words.
On reflection I should of said very, very, very, very, very dodgy

The evidence is not anecdotal though and it is a lot more than a couple of bad beats.
By saying the evidence is anecdotal you are saying that it is hearsay and untrustworthy.
Why, "particularly sit n go" do these tournaments play differently?
I have nothing to gain by expressing my concerns about this site can you say the same about the way you want to dispute what I say?
Why don't you and Fatshaft (as you seem to know each other) go and have fun playing their deal or no deal.
I wont stop you.
In fact why don't you make another thread entitled "Why I love pkr.com" and tell people it is the fairest game on the net and they are the only poker site licensed by the UK Government.

 

[fatshaft]

YOU SHOULD PLAY THERE since you are convinced it is a fair game, why is that by the way?

Because your claims are ludicrous, and now by your oiwn admission based on a very small sample size. From what I've played on PKR, the players are abysmal, I've seen myself raise and get five callers at $200NL (rarely anything larger running), so when you get player sthat loose, your going to see a lot of funny hands obviously.

Yes they are strong words.
On reflection I should of said very, very, very, very, very dodgy

Based on a handful of hands on sng's? Your claims are laughable.

The evidence is not anecdotal though and it is a lot more than a couple of bad beats.

That is exactly what it is

By saying the evidence is anecdotal you are saying that it is hearsay and untrustworthy.

No, he's saying they are anecdotal

Why, "particularly sit n go" do these tournaments play differently?

Wow. Well as you don't seem to understand, it is a one table tournamen where blind pressure will force players to play more borderline hands, far more often than (the already loose standards apparent) on their (or any site's) cash games

I have nothing to gain by expressing my concerns about this site can you say the same about the way you want to dispute what I say?
Why don't you and Fatshaft (as you seem to know each other) go and have fun playing their deal or no deal. I wont stop you.

I don't play casino games, but it's interesting that you point out that two defenders of their RNG 'must' in your view be connected in some way. That says all that we need about your ability to review soomething dispassionately. the first thing that pops into your mind is that there must be a connection somewhere - typical tin foil hat stuff. For the record I have no idea who snakeyes is, can;t say I've come across the name on any of the main forums.

In fact why don't you make another thread entitled "Why I love pkr.com" and tell people it is the fairest game on the net and they are the only poker site licensed by the UK Government.

As fair as any of the other rooms, until someone can provide evidence as opposed to conspiracy theories.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Yes they are strong words.
On reflection I should of said very, very, very, very, very dodgy

The evidence is not anecdotal though and it is a lot more than a couple of bad beats.
By saying the evidence is anecdotal you are saying that it is hearsay and untrustworthy.
Why, "particularly sit n go" do these tournaments play differently?
I have nothing to gain by expressing my concerns about this site can you say the same about the way you want to dispute what I say?
Why don't you and Fatshaft (as you seem to know each other) go and have fun playing their deal or no deal.
I wont stop you.
In fact why don't you make another thread entitled "Why I love pkr.com" and tell people it is the fairest game on the net and they are the only poker site licensed by the UK Government.

Firstly, I don't know Fatshaft, I have no idea who he is. I simply agree with him.

Secondly, you don't seem have presented any real evidence. Everyone takes bad beats - I did last night (AA vs 77 on a 554T board, river 7). If you do have any evidence, i'd be interested to see it.

Thirdly, sit 'n' go's are very different to cash games. I can't think why a poker room would decide to even bother rigging a sit 'n' go.

Finally - I don't feel the need to do anything like that. I work in the industry, and have played at a great number of poker rooms. I like playing at PKR, the software is very nice, and there are good games on there. I don't have any reason to suspect they are any less 'fair' than any other poker room. Simple as that. As regards the licensing point - all I have done on this thread is relay the facts

 

[fatshaft]

Playing the $12.5k Guarantee last night, we're down to 17, and it's the first hand after the third break, I'm SB and about 14th in chips, BB is last at the moment and is effectively all-in on his blind. Table chip leader mini-raises which virtually puts me all-in and covers the BB.

I wake up with QQ, so I push, BB and CL quickly call, CL has AA, and the BB has KK

BB hits a King and I go out 17th.

Must be fixed

 

[Rusty]

You are talking to someone who has played poker for a long long time so don't tell me about bad beats, I know all about them.
They can and do happen.
But by your reasoning it obviously follows that no poker room cheats because it can always be put down to bad beats, no matter how unlikely the outcomes?


As for me questioning that you Two are in any way connected;
You both started posting in the other PKR thread around the same time and then you both appear here around the same time.
Neither of you are prolific posters and yet you both rigorously deny that there is anything (even the licensing issue) wrong at PKR.
I think any reasonable person would suspect a connection and the fact that you say (FATSHAFT) that this is (tin foil hat stuff) says more about you than I ever would/could.
As regards sit n go tournements I thought it was obvious what I meant when I asked if these play differently.
The blinds go up in sit N go but not in cash games, really? Please.
Here is a little fact for you;

When I used to play cash tables online I was making an average of around 250 PW playing 5/10p blinds Week in Week out for around 5 Months/regular bad beats included.
Then One Day I was suddenly getting cold decked time after time after time, it was so ridiculous that I knew if I had a flush or straight and the board was paired the other Guy/Girl would have a FH for certain.Time after time.
If I had KK I knew my raise would be re-raised before I even bet.
Every over-pair I had would be cracked.
3 suited cards on board and I have K flush, no problem they would have A flush.
Flop a FH no worries I would still get beat.
My stats went down to 9% hands won on 6 seater tables from around 40% and I dare say the 9% was folds to bluffs.

Why would a site rig a game at lower stakes, including sit n go?

Here is just one theory;

Online poker was probably One of the fastest growing industries of this Decade.
In its earlier Days there were lots and lots of new blood ready to be gobbled up by hungry Sharks and the poker sites would get their rake regardless, right?
Wrong, because these people who were relatively new to poker and excited by the concept would soon get discouraged and give up on the game.
Pretty soon the sites would only be frequented by lots of sharks and the odd casual player.
Now if I was a clever person involved in the industry I might just want to find a way to protect the new players and keep them playing and what better way than to introduce a hidden handicap system?
I could code the software tomorrow, easy.
There is little or no regulation to worry about and other than a few low stake sharks leaving with disgruntled "bad beat strories" it would increase profits and every Dog would have their Day.
Also the rake will always be better on a low skill cash games.
The rake is always the same in sit N go but that is where most beginners will start.
Of course there are lots of other theories and ways and reasons for sites to cheat but whether you believe any site would cheat to increase profits comes down to;
A) Which side of the industry you are.
B) Whether you believe the US and UK invaded Iraq because of WMD's, no I mean Al Qaeda, no I mean regime change.

At no point in my original post did I say this was supposed to be a dispassionate review, it most clearly is not, so forgive me if I have no idea why you would compare it to One.

The bottom line is I would not play there again with your money but you are welcome to do so.

 

[Rusty]

Playing the $12.5k Guarantee last night, we're down to 17, and it's the first hand after the third break, I'm SB and about 14th in chips, BB is last at the moment and is effectively all-in on his blind. Table chip leader mini-raises which virtually puts me all-in and covers the BB.

I wake up with QQ, so I push, BB and CL quickly call, CL has AA, and the BB has KK

BB hits a King and I go out 17th.


Only around a 20,000/1 chance at a 10 player table?
Much higher at a 6 player.
My maths could be wrong though .

 

[fatshaft]

As for me questioning that you Two are in any way connected;
You both started posting in the other PKR thread around the same time and then you both appear here around the same time.
Neither of you are prolific posters and yet you both rigorously deny that there is anything (even the licensing issue) wrong at PKR.
I think any reasonable person would suspect a connection and the fact that you say (FATSHAFT) that this is (tin foil hat stuff) says more about you than I ever would/could.

.

Yup, I am a low volume poster, aound 15 a year, mainly becasue there was historically no poker content, and latterly even though there is now a poker section there are rarely any posts, and pokeraddict tends to post anything relevant that I would have to say, so there's no need for the repitition.

Go to the zoo, I have 2000 posts, or ITH, nearly 5000, or the Mob, over 1000, or AWOP 500+, and a few other sites where I have a handful of posts, most more than here. They are poker forums, so that's where I post.

As for Snake being low volume, you did notice he signed up this month didn't you? And where else is he supposed to post? This is the ONLY poker thread that has been posted on today, and only four have been active in nearly two weeks.

I'm certainly NOT denying the issue over alleged bonus abuse was anything other than totally wrong, however you weighed in with your claims on not being licensed in the UK, and on fact that there wasn't a link, both of those statements are factually wrong; and were sidetracking an issue that they deserve a whacking over the head for, whether they are being disingenious stating their claims in the way they do is a matter of conjecture, nevertheless your statements were incorrect and unhelpful with respect to the matter in question, so it's surely no surprise to anyone that you were pulled up on them?

Your 'evidence' and suppositions are as accurate as your rigged software statements.

I would suggest you take your claims to =4, where you will be shown all the respect usually given to 'zomg, it's rigged' posters.

 

[Snake Eyes]

You are talking to someone who has played poker for a long long time so don't tell me about bad beats, I know all about them.
They can and do happen.
But by your reasoning it obviously follows that no poker room cheats because it can always be put down to bad beats, no matter how unlikely the outcomes?


As for me questioning that you Two are in any way connected;
You both started posting in the other PKR thread around the same time and then you both appear here around the same time.
Neither of you are prolific posters and yet you both rigorously deny that there is anything (even the licensing issue) wrong at PKR.
I think any reasonable person would suspect a connection and the fact that you say (FATSHAFT) that this is (tin foil hat stuff) says more about you than I ever would/could.
As regards sit n go tournements I thought it was obvious what I meant when I asked if these play differently.
The blinds go up in sit N go but not in cash games, really? Please.
Here is a little fact for you;

When I used to play cash tables online I was making an average of around 250 PW playing 5/10p blinds Week in Week out for around 5 Months/regular bad beats included.
Then One Day I was suddenly getting cold decked time after time after time, it was so ridiculous that I knew if I had a flush or straight and the board was paired the other Guy/Girl would have a FH for certain.Time after time.
If I had KK I knew my raise would be re-raised before I even bet.
Every over-pair I had would be cracked.
3 suited cards on board and I have K flush, no problem they would have A flush.
Flop a FH no worries I would still get beat.
My stats went down to 9% hands won on 6 seater tables from around 40% and I dare say the 9% was folds to bluffs.

Why would a site rig a game at lower stakes, including sit n go?

Here is just one theory;

Online poker was probably One of the fastest growing industries of this Decade.
In its earlier Days there were lots and lots of new blood ready to be gobbled up by hungry Sharks and the poker sites would get their rake regardless, right?
Wrong, because these people who were relatively new to poker and excited by the concept would soon get discouraged and give up on the game.
Pretty soon the sites would only be frequented by lots of sharks and the odd casual player.
Now if I was a clever person involved in the industry I might just want to find a way to protect the new players and keep them playing and what better way than to introduce a hidden handicap system?
I could code the software tomorrow, easy.
There is little or no regulation to worry about and other than a few low stake sharks leaving with disgruntled "bad beat strories" it would increase profits and every Dog would have their Day.
Also the rake will always be better on a low skill cash games.
The rake is always the same in sit N go but that is where most beginners will start.
Of course there are lots of other theories and ways and reasons for sites to cheat but whether you believe any site would cheat to increase profits comes down to;
A) Which side of the industry you are.
B) Whether you believe the US and UK invaded Iraq because of WMD's, no I mean Al Qaeda, no I mean regime change.

At no point in my original post did I say this was supposed to be a dispassionate review, it most clearly is not, so forgive me if I have no idea why you would compare it to One.

The bottom line is I would not play there again with your money but you are welcome to do so.

This thread is fast becoming incredibly pointless - you've still provided no evidence for your claims. I'd appreciate it if you could please stop putting words into my mouth too - your interpretation of 'my reasoning' is wildly inaccurate

Your conspiracy theory is equally laughable. I have no affiliation with PKR, other than playing there. I don't work for them, and I don't know anybody who works for them. I think the recent 'bonus abuse' issue has done them no favours, and I totally disagree with it. You were wrong on the licensing issue. I'm perfectly happy to disagree with you on whether it should be displayed the way it is - I don't have a problem personally - but you keep returning to this issue for some reason.

Bringing up the length of time i've been posting on here is a pretty weak argument, and seems little more than an attempt to deflect attention away from the fact you haven't provided a shred of evidence for your claims.

You can carry on with such a line of argument if you wish, but I think it's beginning to make you look rather ridiculous

 

[Rusty]

Did you actually read my post Snake?

This thread is fast becoming incredibly pointless - you've still provided no evidence for your claims. I'd appreciate it if you could please stop putting words into my mouth too - your interpretation of 'my reasoning' is wildly inaccurate

Seems perfectly accurate to me.

Your conspiracy theory is equally laughable. I have no affiliation with PKR, other than playing there. I don't work for them, and I don't know anybody who works for them. I think the recent 'bonus abuse' issue has done them no favours, and I totally disagree with it. You were wrong on the licensing issue. I'm perfectly happy to disagree with you on whether it should be displayed the way it is - I don't have a problem personally - but you keep returning to this issue for some reason.

What conspiracy theory would that be?
I have never stated you were affiliated or connected with PKR?
Freudian slip perhaps?

I was not wrong on the licensing issue and no matter how many times you repeat that it wont make it true.
I keep returning to the issue because you keep bringing up (Cough)

Bringing up the length of time i've been posting on here is a pretty weak argument, and seems little more than an attempt to deflect attention away from the fact you haven't provided a shred of evidence for your claims.

I was not saying that your contributions were any less important than anybody elses nor did I mention the length of time you had been a poster.
Far from trying to deflect anything I was again responding to these petty attacks.

This thread is pointless because it seems the pair of you have descended into a LAUGHABLE (Is that the word of the Week or something?) attempt to send me up as crank.



I would suggest you take your claims to =4, where you will be shown all the respect usually given to 'zomg, it's rigged' posters.

Like people who claimed absolute was rigged you mean?

I think you are both "rather ridiculous" so I guess we are even.

 

[fatshaft]

Your conspiracy theory is equally laughable. I have no affiliation with PKR, other than playing there. I don't work for them, and I don't know anybody who works for them. I think the recent 'bonus abuse' issue has done them no favours, and I totally disagree with it. You were wrong on the licensing issue. I'm perfectly happy to disagree with you on whether it should be displayed the way it is - I don't have a problem personally - but you keep returning to this issue for some reason.

What conspiracy theory would that be?
I have never stated you were affiliated or connected with PKR?
Freudian slip perhaps?

Erm, well you in fact pointedly said as much on page 2, you seem unable to maintain even your own level of consiracy theory thoughts on one level for more than a day?

As for me questioning that you Two are in any way connected;
You both started posting in the other PKR thread around the same time and then you both appear here around the same time.
Neither of you are prolific posters and yet you both rigorously deny that there is anything (even the licensing issue) wrong at PKR.
I think any reasonable person would suspect a connection and the fact that you say (FATSHAFT) that this is (tin foil hat stuff) says more about you than
>
>
>
>
Of course there are lots of other theories and ways and reasons for sites to cheat but whether you believe any site would cheat to increase profits comes down to;
A) Which side of the industry you are.

If that first comment isn't suggesting that either of us work for PKR, your second comment implicitly says as much.

I was not wrong on the licensing issue and no matter how many times you repeat that it wont make it true.

You stated they were not licensed by the UKGC, and that they didn't even link to any info on their claim. Both of your statements are INCORRECT, they are both licensed in the UK (not for gambling, but by the UKGC nevertheless) and do link to all relevant info on the matter.

You are wrong, and it is simply proved by one click on the link they provide - these are easily proven FACTUAL inaccuracies in your posts.

I would suggest you take your claims to =4, where you will be shown all the respect usually given to 'zomg, it's rigged' posters.

Like people who claimed absolute was rigged you mean?

I think you are both "rather ridiculous" so I guess we are even.

You are claiming tinfoil hat RNG rigged rubbish that has never been proven in a single case, that has nothing to do with the UB/AP situation, which was down to CHEATING, a completely different and irrelevant situation to your supposed theory.


I repeat my request to take it to 2+2 and see what they make of your claims? They were quick enough to unravel the full extent of the recent scandals from UB/AP, so I'm sure the wealth of evidence you will supply (as you say, none of your 'evidence' is anecdotal) will have PKR running for cover minutes after this is put on show for all to see.


P.S. please use the quote function rather than italicise text, it makes it much easier to follow who is saying what exactly.

 

[Rusty]

Have a safe journey back to Toy town

 

[Snake Eyes]

This thread is pointless because it seems the pair of you have descended into a LAUGHABLE (Is that the word of the Week or something?) attempt to send me up as crank.

We're trying to send you up as a crank?

You've accused a poker room of being rigged without a shred of evidence (still happy to read anything you've got, by the way).

You've accused them of lying about having a licence from the UKGC, when it is clearly displayed on their site

You've then accused fatshaft and I of working for PKR because we disagree with you (oh no, sorry, you did nothing of the sort ) and actually deal in facts, and then said we're the ones taking part in 'petty attacks'

You've then brought the Tokwiro scandal into this discussion when it is completely irrelevant.

I think you're doing a pretty good job of the whole crank thing yourself without anyone else's help.

 

[vinylweatherman]

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

The link from the UK Gambling Commision text (click on 'licensed') on their footer takes you through to an explanation of what is licensed, they also display the Alderney logo.

So now that we've got that mis-statement out of the way, why is it rigged? What stats do you have to back this up other than you're losing?

The link works, but here is the source of the confusion. From PKR

Licensing & Regulation


PKR Technologies Limited is the software developer that powers PKR and is the only online poker software developer anywhere to be licensed by the UK Government. To view our UK Remote Operating License, please click

This is ambiguous. A "remote operating license" is not quite what they have, they have a licence to develop, install, and amend the poker software in use at PKR POKER. If you do not read the earlier sentence, and interpret it as applying as an explanation of the "remote operating license", it is easy to think they mean the licence is for the GAMING "operating", rather than just the software.

None of this is any help to Topoor, as this only covers the poker SOFTWARE, so all discussions about their GAMING having dual regulation can cease, as it seems it is all regulated by the AGCC.

If anyone, however, believed the poker SOFTWARE to be "rigged", then the UK Gambling Commission most certainly WOULD be a place to complain to, provided you have enough evidence to back the claim up, such as a statistically significant sample. Given the scandals at AP and Ultimate, this kind of evidence will no longer be dismissed as the rantings of a losing player - this is the damage that the aforementioned pair of scandals have done to the integrity of the poker industry, and the fact that these operators went to great lengths to deny anything, and stuck to it until it was dragged out of them, will mean that denials by operators in the future are less likely to be taken at face value.

 

[lots0]

You've accused them of lying about having a licence from the UKGC, when it is clearly displayed on their site

No your wrong, pkr.com is NOT licensed in the UK.

Obviously the misleading information that pkr.com put up on their main page is doing just what pkr.com wanted. Players like Snake eyes seem to think they are licensed by the UK Gaming Commission, I wonder how many other players have been duped like this?

The FACT that they put a link that intends to mislead players into FALSELY believing that pkr.com is licensed by the UK Gaming Commission, makes pkr.com a Rogue, in my opinion. Only a Rogue Poker Room would claim to be licensed when in FACT they are NOT Licensed.

Intentionally misleading players is a serious offense..

As we all know, weather the card room playing is rigged or not can go back and forth for a very long time with both sides trying to shoot down the other (see the threads about absolute poker cheating scandal). Without a large amount of data from the poker room itself, it is almost impossible to PROVE a poker room is cheating.

However, the FACT that pkr.com is so willing to mislead players into thinking they are licensed by the UK Gaming Commission, when in FACT they are not, makes Rusty's accusations much more plausible and believable.

The link at the bottom of pkr.com main page is misleading - PKR.com is NOT licensed by UK Gaming Commission.

Now if you folks want to play at a room that is more than willing to mislead players like that, is totally up to you...

But don't try to blow off such a serious breach of player trust as nothing...

The FACT pkr.com put up that misleading text and link means these people at PKR.com are willing to lie to get your business... If they are willing to lie to get your business, I wonder what they would do to get your money???

 

[Snake Eyes]

However, the FACT that pkr.com is so willing to mislead players into thinking they are licensed by the UK Gaming Commission, when in FACT they are not, makes Rusty's accusations much more plausible and believable.

Complete nonsense. I don't even know where to begin with such a statement.

As we all know, weather the card room playing is rigged or not can go back and forth for a very long time with both sides trying to shoot down the other (see the threads about absolute poker cheating scandal). Without a large amount of data from the poker room itself, it is almost impossible to PROVE a poker room is cheating.

Quite why the Absolute Poker situation keeps getting brought up here is beyond me. That was nothing to do with the poker room (read; RNG) being 'rigged'.

The point is, the OP has provided absolutely no evidence to his claim. Therefore I think i'm well within my rights to shoot him down. As i've repeatedly said, if he provides any evidence, i'll be happy to read it.

 

[lots0]

Complete nonsense. I don't even know where to begin with such a statement.

Of course you don't have a response or argument, simply because I am right.

PKR.com is misleading players, no doubt about it.
The "Proof" is right on their main page for anyone to see.

The deception is so obvious, once it is pointed out....

So if I am wrong, where is PKR's UKGC License? They claim they are licensed...

Licensed by the UK Gambling Commission

source: xxhttp://www.pkr.com/

That quote from PKR's main page says it all....
Except for the FACT PKR is NOT licensed by the UK Gambling Commission.

With deceptions like that, who needs to look at their software to decide if these guys are on the level (why waste the time)... PKR's attempted deception of players says it all.

Why bring up Absolute Poker... Why not bring them up?
Absolute Poker is a great example of what online poker rooms can get away with...
But you know what? As bad as Absolute Poker is, I don't remember them claiming to be licensed in a jurisdiction where they were in fact NOT licensed.

If PKR.com were so honest and not trying to mislead players, why don't they just say that have a license to develop software from UKGC? Instead of trying to make people believe their Poker Room is licensed by the UKGC, when it is in fact NOT licensed by that agency.

 

[fatshaft]

Have a safe journey back to Toy town

I'll take your insulting respone to mean you have absolutely no evidence to support your outrageous claims.

Now that we've established that fact, can we get back to dealing with rogue poker rooms, as opposed to ones where a player is simply a bad loser/bad player and can't handle the fact?

Like your posts in the casino bonus thread for PKR, all you do is distract attention from those who need it, like AP and UB. Out the rogues, stop wasting time with bad beat stories.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Of course you don't have a response or argument, simply because I am right.

Yep, keep telling yourself that. Seeing as you seem to rate the UKGC so highly, you should be pretty pleased that their software was created under such a jurisdiction.

Either way, i'm not wasting anymore of my time posting on this thread when neither you or Rusty have anything more than bizarre '2+2=500' claims to prove that PKR is rigged, and are doing nothing more than trying to deflect attention away from that fact. Quite why you expect the likes of fatshaft and I to try and prove that PKR isn't fixed, when its the two of you making these outlandish claims that it is, really is beyond me.

 

[lots0]

So misleading players is OK with you?

You don't think that PKR.com should be considered a Rogue for trying to get players to believe their poker room is licensed by the UKGC? When it is in fact NOT licensed by the UKGC...

So it is OK, that PKR.com is deceitful about being licensed, we should believe the games they run are honest...

You want us to just turn a blind eye to PKR.com because there is no hard evidence. (Again, there will never be any 'hard' evidence unless PKR.com releases it themselves - That is a fact Absolute Poker taught us)


If PKR.com is not a Rogue they are sure acting like one... And as far as I am concerned they are headed for my sites Casino Rogue Hall of shame for attempting to mislead players (I won't even get into the non-payment issues that PKR.com seems to be having at the moment...)

I'll take your insulting respone to mean you have absolutely no evidence to support your outrageous claims.

Now that we've established that fact, can we get back to dealing with rogue poker rooms, as opposed to ones where a player is simply a bad loser/bad player and can't handle the fact?

Like your posts in the casino bonus thread for PKR, all you do is distract attention from those who need it, like AP and UB. Out the rogues, stop wasting time with bad beat stories.

Yo Snake eyes.
I never claimed PKR.com was cheating... I said they mislead players and the proof is on the main page of PKR's website...I also said that any poker room that misleads players is more likely to cheat players... and that is a fact.

No one asked you to defend PKR (or did they?).

Like Rusty said... You want to play there, by all means go ahead.

But other players should know that PKR is very very lose with the truth and that their poker room is NOT licensed by UKGC.

Seeing as you seem to rate the UKGC so highly, you should be pretty pleased that their software was created under such a jurisdiction.

I never said I "rated" the UKGC highly, lowly or any other way.

What I said was that PKR is misleading people into believing their poker room is licensed by the UKGC when in fact it is NOT.

If you don't believe misleading players is not the action of a Rogue Poker Room... What will it take to convince you... A notarized confession from the owner??

 

[Rusty]

"Entitled to shoot me down" What an arrogant and misguided comment.

All you and Fatshaft have continued to do is repeat the same misinformation, make personal attacks and demand proof that it is rigged.
If it is not rigged where is your proof?
Are we to assume that all sites are not rigged in any way and anybody who suspects otherwise is laughable?
That is the extent of your argument after all
Forgive me if I do not feel shot down as far as I am concerned you are firing blanks.

I'll take your insulting respone to mean you have absolutely no evidence to support your outrageous claims.

Now that we've established that fact, can we get back to dealing with rogue poker rooms, as opposed to ones where a player is simply a bad loser/bad player and can't handle the fact?

I thought it was quite witty, something that is lacking in any of your posts.
If anybody is guilty of being insulting here it is you with your disrespectful remarks that you somehow confuse as fact.
But then you come across as a very conceited individual so I should not be surprised you have such a inflated opinion of yourself.

 

[maxd]

Just a word of warning guys: if this thread turns into an exchange of insults we'll shut it down. As I see it you both have good points to make but you're letting your tempers get in the way.

Step back for a few minutes, take a few deep breaths, think of the gaming issues here and I'm sure we'll be fine.

 

[fatshaft]

"Entitled to shoot me down" What an arrogant and misguided comment.

All you and Fatshaft have continued to do is repeat the same misinformation, make personal attacks and demand proof that it is rigged.

What misinformation? That PKR ARE licensed by the UKGC? That is a fact whether you like it or admit it or not. They don't claim to be regulated by them, only that they have a license, a claim that is 100% true.

If it is not rigged where is your proof?

The burden of proof is on you, you are the one claiming that their RNG is somehow defective. Innocent until proven guilty is the standard in this country, and most civilised societies, so let's have your proof.

Are we to assume that all sites are not rigged in any way and anybody who suspects otherwise is laughable?

We should assume so yes, but be wary that this may not be the case. Other than Planet Poker, there has not been a single case ever of a defective RNG, and in their case it was not a malicious defect, but unintentionally weak programming. There was no attempt to favour one player over another, they simply didn't build a good enough product.

Like UB/AP has shown, bring the EVIDENCE and people will listen, however there have been thousands of losing players try to claim that a site is fixed to cover up their bad results, as yet not a single one has ever provided evidence to back up those claims.

That is the extent of your argument after all

Nope, my (and Snake's) argument is you have no evidence to support your outlandish claims.

Forgive me if I do not feel shot down as far as I am concerned you are firing blanks.

Give us something tangible rather than hearsay then?

I'll take your insulting respone to mean you have absolutely no evidence to support your outrageous claims.

Now that we've established that fact, can we get back to dealing with rogue poker rooms, as opposed to ones where a player is simply a bad loser/bad player and can't handle the fact?

I thought it was quite witty, something that is lacking in any of your posts.

Really? I think accusing a business worth north of 50m of dishonesty was a pretty serious business, sorry if I misunderstood and should be making light of the matter, I imagine those at PKR do not share your hilarity.

If anybody is guilty of being insulting here it is you with your disrespectful remarks that you somehow confuse as fact.

Such as? Accusing your claims of being tin foil hat-ish are not disrespectful imo, you're just spouting the same conspiracy theory nonsense that we've all heard a million times before, give us evidence like those who first outed the UB/AP cheaters and I'm all ears, but so far you've said nothing but attack myself and Snake Eyes for being somehow conected to PKR. It appears you see a conspiracy round every corner.

But then you come across as a very conceited individual so I should not be surprised you have such a inflated opinion of yourself.

I'm not sure where in any of my posts I've posted any comment on myself, so why you would feel this way is baffling.




Now that all that has been said, can we get back to some evidence of a fixed RNG at PKR please?

Can we have:

* The relevant stats to back up your claim
* What they have fixed?
* Why they have fixed it?
* Why you would be on the wrong side of this fix?

 

[fatshaft]

Playing the $12.5k Guarantee last night, we're down to 17, and it's the first hand after the third break, I'm SB and about 14th in chips, BB is last at the moment and is effectively all-in on his blind. Table chip leader mini-raises which virtually puts me all-in and covers the BB.

I wake up with QQ, so I push, BB and CL quickly call, CL has AA, and the BB has KK

BB hits a King and I go out 17th.

Must be fixed

Playing the same tourney again last night, about 45 minutes in and I'm down to 1700ish chips, blinds are 50/100 and I pick up AA utg. I limp hoping for a back raise but get one caller, plus the SB completes.

Flop is raggy but two hearts (I don't have the Ace-heart), I bet out 300ish and limp-caller calls, SB pushes and I rr all-in, and other player also calls. They turn over Q4 and 57 of hearts, turn is a heart.

It's all fixed.

 

[lots0]

What misinformation? That PKR ARE licensed by the UKGC? That is a fact whether you like it or admit it or not. They don't claim to be regulated by them, only that they have a license, a claim that is 100% true.

No that claim is NOT true. PKR.com is not licensed to operate by the UKGC.
If they are licensed, where is the license? Just show me a URL where PKR.com is a licensed Poker Room by the UKGC... It sure is not the link PKR.com puts up on its main page. That is a license to develop software, not a license to operate in the UK... Those are two very different things.

Real simple to prove me wrong and you right, just show us all the license from the UKGC for PKR.com to operate their poker room in the UK.

 

[fatshaft]

No that claim is NOT true. PKR.com is not licensed to operate by the UKGC.
If they are licensed, where is the license? Just show me a URL where PKR.com is a licensed Poker Room by the UKGC... It sure is not the link PKR.com puts up on its main page. That is a license to develop software, not a license to operate in the UK... Those are two very different things.

Real simple to prove me wrong and you right, just show us all the license from the UKGC for PKR.com to operate their poker room in the UK

You are 100% correct, which is exactly what I've been saying, nowhere have I said they are regulated by the UKGC, it just seems that you and Rosty read something that isn't there because you are so obsessed with trying to blacken the name of PKR and anyone who doesn;t agree with your viewpoint.

They ARE licensed by the UKGC, they are NOT regulated by them. They don't claim anywhere to be licensed to operate by the UKGC. There is nothing false about their claim whatsoever, they even state when you click through the link at the very top of the page....

PKR Technologies Limited is the software developer that powers PKR and is the only online poker software developer anywhere to be licensed by the UK Government. To view our UK Remote Operating License, please click here.

PKR is licensed and regulated by The Alderney Gambling Control Commission (AGCC).

Glad you get it now though.

 

[lots0]

Glad you get it now though.

Oh ya, I get it now...

When a site says "Licensed by the UKGC" on their main page, it means to just about everybody that sees it, that the site is claiming to be licensed to operate by the UKGC.

Why not just put Licensed by the AGCC on their main page instead of implying they are licensed by the UKGC...

Maybe because the UKGC is trusted by most players...

Placing that link on their page the way PKR.com did, is an obvious attempt to deceive players.

 

[efcgenius]

I found the comments on this site very disturbing regarding PKR displaying a misleading statement at the bottom of their webpage. There is nothing more important in life than financial security for both yourself and your children, after reading this forum I will never ever play for real money on PKR.

And as for the 2 guys who are defending this kind of mis-statement you should be ashamed of yourself, Imagine if you lost $10,000 on PKR and then found out they were misleading you about being regulated by the UKGC, would you want your money back - go figure.

They claim to be licensed by the UKGC so how many would question if its regulated by them too, and do people actually know the difference, this is very naughty makes me think PKR is not legitimate in my opinion.

 

[Snake Eyes]

And as for the 2 guys who are defending this kind of mis-statement you should be ashamed of yourself, Imagine if you lost $10,000 on PKR and then found out they were misleading you about being regulated by the UKGC, would you want your money back - go figure.

I'm not getting involved in this discussion any further, but seeing as this is addressed at me, I feel the need to respond;

If I lost $10,000 there, it would be because I chose to gamble such money there. I would want my money back, but I don't see any reason why I think I might be entitled to it. I don't feel misled about them being regulated by the UKGC, because they're not, and I never thought they were. If you don't feel your money is secure playing at PKR, then don't play there - you don't have any particular reason to show why that might be the case though.

Thanks for telling me I should be ashamed of myself because I actually read up on a site before I play there though.

 

[lots0]

Snake eyes you are acting very much like a PKR.com shill.

There are a LOT of very good reasons NOT to play at PKR.com.

The fact they PKR.com is attempting to mislead players into thinking they are licensed by the UKGC when in fact they are not, is not even the worst thing that PKR.com has been doing.

How about PKR.com closing player accounts without cause and seizing monies from players?

Today I will be adding PKR.com to my sites Casino Hall of Shame Blacklist (not associated with CasinoMeister's Rogue list.)

 

[efcgenius]

Thanks for telling me I should be ashamed of myself because I actually read up on a site before I play there though.

This is my point exactly, YOU claim to read their websites carefully but the majority of people will NOT and that is whats misleading, how many people will understand the difference between licensed and regulated. If they are not regulated by the UKGC then they shopuld state this on their website its as simple as that, who exactly would back us up if they did scam our money, certainly not UKGC, you cannot defend this and nor can you state that PKR are 100% legitimate given this fact if mis-statement

This is enough to avoid playing for real money on their site for the rest of my life

 

[Snake Eyes]

Snake eyes you are acting very much like a PKR.com shill.

Yep, you got me. I'm the owner.

Anyway, this thread has become very tedious now. I'll leave you lot to it

 

[fatshaft]

I found the comments on this site very disturbing regarding PKR displaying a misleading statement at the bottom of their webpage. There is nothing more important in life than financial security for both yourself and your children,

Good advice, so why on earth would you be contemplating gambling with that future?

And as for the 2 guys who are defending this kind of mis-statement you should be ashamed of yourself, Imagine if you lost $10,000 on PKR and then found out they were misleading you about being regulated by the UKGC, would you want your money back - go figure.

Erm, no. Why would I? What difference does the regulator make? maybe it has a bearing for you, it does not come into even 0.001% of my decision whether to play on a site.

They claim to be licensed by the UKGC so how many would question if its regulated by them too, and do people actually know the difference, this is very naughty makes me think PKR is not legitimate in my opinion.

If people don;t know the difference, then who they are licensed and regulated by is redundant anyway. DUCY?

This is my point exactly, YOU claim to read their websites carefully but the majority of people will NOT and that is whats misleading, how many people will understand the difference between licensed and regulated.

...and how many care? Very very few, if they care they will read up like Snake has done, otherwise they won't.

 

[lots0]

I thought you shills were through with this thread?

It looks a like a couple shills trying to 'push down' the negative comments by adding a lot of non-related crap to the thread.

 

[fatshaft]

I thought you shills were through with this thread?

It looks a like a couple shills trying to 'push down' the negative comments by adding a lot of non-related crap to the thread.

I see, so I joined up in April 2004, preparing for the day that PKR would launch, just in case there were some tinfoil hat posts on a non-poker forum?

I guess some people just see conspiracy in everything?

 

[lots0]

The PKR.com domain name was first registered in 2000.
So maybe it is not as far fetched as you try to make it sound.

Anyway, you are defending the indefensible. Regardless of your motives.

I guess some people just see conspiracy in everything?

Ya real funny, you insinuate that I am some kind of a conspiracy nut.
Your not so veiled insult just helps to prove my point about you being a shill. (it's like shill rule #3... If you can't confuse and derail, try to discredit...)

You don't have to be a conspiracy nut to see that poker rooms like PKR are ripping off people as fast as they can.

The only reason these guys at PKR are paying off players right now (or should I say promising to pay) is because of the fact they are getting their little operation exposed in public, here at CM and at my site.

Go ahead and continue to defend PKR.com and I will continue to expose their shady/crooked actions... We both get what we want... Ain't this a great world we live in?

 

[sdaddy]

I agree these misstatements/misrepresentations by PKR are troubling and should warrant caution by players.