Q&A Ask Me Anything about Slots (AMA) 2020 with Trancemonkey

[trancemonkey]

Thanks so much for this, very interesting. What about language for coding what did you guys used to write? I think you mentioned on another post that it has been a while since you were out of the industry so maybe I'm assuming Actionscript on the UI (because of flash) and what about the back-end ?

All of my code was C++. We still use this a lot. We also use a lot of C# now for front end. Python for writing simulations.

 

[trancemonkey]

You won't like the answer, but because our experiences are different and filtered through the perspective of our minds and our personalities.

Land based slots are designed and target a different type of player, in general (Trance can probably expand more). So it's not unusual to have someone who likes land based but doesn't like online. The games play and feel different.

However, your experience and my experience differ. I've been to Vegas a few times. Put thousands through the slots. Biggest win I've ever had is probably ~400x. Contrast that to online where my biggest win is over 3000x. My wife's biggest win is over 10000x (DOA2 wildline), and where I've had numerous >500x and >1000X.

So while I agree land based is less volatile, my experience is that I've had a better time online.

Strictly statistically, land based slots have much lower RTP, so while I know you said ignoring RTP, just for clarity, you mathematically have a better chance online.

Also, as was noted, most games in land based are networked these days, and you also have the added complexity of different rules around RTP. Land based often have worse RTP and lower denominations (1c) and better RTP at higher denominations ($1). Also the machines next to the exits are normally lower RTP, designed to drain the last of your money before you leave. Then there are the numerous other psychological tricks employed by land based Casinos (lack of windows, free drinks etc), so it's not just the slots working against you.

Still love Vegas tho

You got most of that right..

Machines near the door are actually likely on higher RTPs if casinos employ this tactic, as people tend to hit these first. Also, some games might have higher RTPs on higher denominations, but this is not necessarily the norm.

I should add, I prefer land based games... megaways games and online games have pushed the feature out so far in order to get the silly high wins that the idea of chaining features together is all but gone.

You either win huge or lose the lot. I don't like this. I would rather have frequent bonuses, still with some volatility of course, and be able to have more of them. Personal preference of course.

 

[The Reel Story]

You got most of that right..

Machines near the door are actually likely on higher RTPs if casinos employ this tactic, as people tend to hit these first. Also, some games might have higher RTPs on higher denominations, but this is not necessarily the norm.

I should add, I prefer land based games... megaways games and online games have pushed the feature out so far in order to get the silly high wins that the idea of chaining features together is all but gone.

You either win huge or lose the lot. I don't like this. I would rather have frequent bonuses, still with some volatility of course, and be able to have more of them. Personal preference of course.

Sorry, I should have specified the machines at the less used exits have the lower RTP. (that's what I was told, but was a long time ago). Theory being people come through the main doors, work their way through the Casino and then leave through a smaller exit when most of their cash is gone.

Same with machines at the airports. Low rtp to drain the last of your cash before you go home. This may be Vegas specific of course. Or may be wrong entirely haha.

I love land based tho, but only when sitting with a mate and playing and getting some drinks. Solo I prefer online, but do tend to play mid age games that aren't the stupid high Volatility ones built for bonus buys

 

[Slotplayer83]

I can't answer that, those are legal questions from another company.
Maybe Bet have another type of contract with the provider.

Can someone enlighten me about such contracts with providers? Is this why most casino's are not open and always are hiding behind the provider thing? Is there a enclosure that a casino cant highlight the deals or terms / condition(s) obviously?

What in general is a contract like that about?

 

[The Reel Story]

Can someone enlighten me about such contracts with providers? Is this why most casino's are not open and always are hiding behind the provider thing? Is there a enclosure that a casino cant highlight the deals or terms / condition(s) obviously?

What in general is a contract like that about?

Contracts will differ from casino to casino, provider to provider. Depending on if the provider signs the casinos contract, or the casino signs the providers contract (with negotiation to reach agreement).

What, specifically, are you asking might be in there? I'm not sure Casinos hide behind contracts, but it's standard business practice not to publicise the details of contracts (competitors could use this, or it could put one or both parties at a disadvantage in another deal etc).

If you have some specific questions, I'll try to answer. I have a friend who is a commercial director in the industry still and working out these contracts is the bulk of what he does, so I can ask.

 

[Slotplayer83]

Well i'm just curious in between the difference of contracts. i.e Casino A vs Casino B doing the same offerings, but Casino B obviously having the same game selection but with a lower max bet size. More important what the effect is on games, because i certainly feel i'm missing out on a slots true potential if it's designed to run with a 20 euro max bet and not capped at 5 euro.

 

[Halvor]

Well i'm just curious in between the difference of contracts. i.e Casino A vs Casino B doing the same offerings, but Casino B obviously having the same game selection but with a lower max bet size. More important what the effect is on games, because i certainly feel i'm missing out on a slots true potential if it's designed to run with a 20 euro max bet and not capped at 5 euro.

Contracts are strictly a commercial agreement.

Why casinos offer different Max bet is simply down to the exposure they're willing to take. A start up for example can't take the same financial risk as lets say a massive company like Kindred. It Will potentially put a small company out og business if they did.

If I did not know better i'd think bloaty got a new account.

 

[Slotplayer83]

"because i certainly feel i'm missing out on a slots true potential if it's designed to run with a 20 euro max bet and not capped at 5 euro."

I dont care what kind of contract they sign. My problem is with this type of stuff the game dont play as it was intended, designed to. We know that on higher bets a bit better RTP might favor the player. But due to the restriction of the capped bet... how is it then? Is'nt the RTP different then ?

 

[Halvor]

"because i certainly feel i'm missing out on a slots true potential if it's designed to run with a 20 euro max bet and not capped at 5 euro."

I dont care what kind of contract they sign. My problem is with this type of stuff the game dont play as it was intended, designed to. We know that on higher bets a bit better RTP might favor the player. But due to the restriction of the capped bet... how is it then? Is'nt the RTP different then ?

Why would the RTP be different based on bet level, if the game runs with the exact same reelstrips no matter bet?

Edit: If you for whatever reason feel the need to hammer on at 20, 100 or 500 euro bets. then switch to a site that caters for that bet size. But no, If you play Bonanza at 20 cent or 20 euro it will not make a difference on the expected RTP and Xwin potential.

 

[Slotplayer83]

DOA2 > 18 to 36 cents vs 1.80 to 3.60. Play a few avg sessions and tell me if there is a diffence in between RTP on those bets. By your saying it should be completely, statical right?

 

[Halvor]

DOA2 > 18 to 36 cents vs 1.80 to 3.60. Play a few avg sessions and tell me if there is a diffence in between RTP on those bets. By your saying it should be completely, statical right?

I will repeat this again, if its so blatantly obvious that the game play different, then show us actual stats that back up your claims of this.

And NO, 100 or 1000 spins on a slot is not even remotely close enough to give a proper reflection of the RTP of the game.

 

[neon claws]

DOA2 > 18 to 36 cents vs 1.80 to 3.60. Play a few avg sessions and tell me if there is a diffence in between RTP on those bets. By your saying it should be completely, statical right?

Go play any slot at $100 a spin and then at $0.01 a spin and you'll have a very different experience.
Anyway, as everyone has said- there is software out there to track your spins, and it's shown there's no difference between bet sizes or casinos (aside from disclosed different RTP versions).

 

[Kroffe]

Go play any slot at $100 a spin and then at $0.01 a spin and you'll have a very different experience.
Anyway, as everyone has said- there is software out there to track your spins, and it's shown there's no difference between bet sizes or casinos (aside from disclosed different RTP versions).

Where can i see this data you speak of that shows there is no difference?

The only program i know of is slottracker, and it does not seem to share that kind of info.

 

[neon claws]

Where can i see this data you speak of that shows there is no difference?

The only program i know of is slottracker, and it does not seem to share that kind of info.

I remember a long time ago (before it was bought out) this specific question was raised- and they shared the data of a few hundred thousand spins at varying bet sizes (I think on DOA specifically even) that showed it normalized to the TRTP fairly quickly on all betsizes. Having said that I don't use the software nor do I have any idea where to find the data... maybe in the original thread?

 

[elrudo]

Hey guys,

I appreciate that several 'insiders' are answering questions about slots.

My question: back in the day when I used to play land-based machines more often, I noticed how slots often would lag when pressing a
winning spin, or when triggering a bonus.

In my opinion the lag also occurs in some online slots (examples needed?) but I don't see technical reasons/causes for it.
For some slots the winning spins come faster than non-winning spins instead of slower.

Are you aware of lag before winning spins/bonuses in online slots, or is preventing this something that is taken into account in slot design?

 

[colinsunderland]

Hey guys,

I appreciate that several 'insiders' are answering questions about slots.

My question: back in the day when I used to play land-based machines more often, I noticed how slots often would lag when pressing a
winning spin, or when triggering a bonus.

In my opinion the lag also occurs in some online slots (examples needed?) but I don't see technical reasons/causes for it.
For some slots the winning spins come faster than non-winning spins instead of slower.

Are you aware of lag before winning spins/bonuses in online slots, or is preventing this something that is taken into account in slot design?

Novomatics do this before a big win, I think it's the sound loading as if you play them long enough you can tell by how big the 'stutter' is what you are likely to win. For example, getting 3oak of something that plays a tune stutters less than if you got say 4 explorers where the alarm bell rings longer than usual.

 

[CasinoNinja]

Bad programming is what I would call it

 

[neon claws]

Bad programming is what I would call it

That and a bad internet connection.
There was one slot.. a 50 line thing.. something Creatures maybe? You could tell the feature was dropping because the spin took like an extra three seconds to load.. presumably because the client has to receive the spins from the bonus round instead of just a single result.
Terribly optimised.

 

[Slotplayer83]

Where can i see this data you speak of that shows there is no difference?

The only program i know of is slottracker, and it does not seem to share that kind of info.

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How does this data sound for you? @Big Time Gaming - Ill just keep it short, but, i have a big suspicion that at this point the gamble feature of extra chili at the casino i play is completely tanked. 8 spins, 12 spins, sporadic 16 spins, but forget 20 to 24 spins really. The amount of times it drops back to 8 or 12 is just unreal high. As you can see this is a log over the last 2.5 month. It kind of makes me sick to my stomach that i blast thousands of euro's in barely just a few minutes hoping to archieve the ultimate 24/10 euro spins feature, but it's as good as impossible.

The few wins that you see, is in my belief a compensation for the few losses that i had here and there. It happens over and over again. I mean i'm not even reaching from 8 to 12 6 out of 10 times and 12 to 16 is even worse. Dont start about going beyond.

 

[trancemonkey]

"because i certainly feel i'm missing out on a slots true potential if it's designed to run with a 20 euro max bet and not capped at 5 euro."

I dont care what kind of contract they sign. My problem is with this type of stuff the game dont play as it was intended, designed to. We know that on higher bets a bit better RTP might favor the player. But due to the restriction of the capped bet... how is it then? Is'nt the RTP different then ?

A slot plays as intended at every bet... it is not "only playing as intended at max bet" unless max bet has something the other stakes don't, which online is very very unlikely.

 

[trancemonkey]

Go play any slot at $100 a spin and then at $0.01 a spin and you'll have a very different experience.
Anyway, as everyone has said- there is software out there to track your spins, and it's shown there's no difference between bet sizes or casinos (aside from disclosed different RTP versions).

Yeah- in one you will lose 10,000x more money. Other than that you will have exactly the same experience on average. If you can prove different statistically, please do so...

 

[trancemonkey]

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2021-04-30 22:27:43 €500 €252.5 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-30 22:27:09 €500 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-30 22:24:39 €500 €505 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-30 22:23:01 €500 €2 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-30 22:20:10 €500 €672 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-30 22:20:03 €10 €7 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-30 22:15:40 €500 €921.5 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-30 21:53:35 €500 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-30 21:53:13 €500 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-30 21:52:32 €500 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-30 21:49:29 €500 €1081 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-30 21:40:49 €500 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-30 21:40:17 €500 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-30 21:37:31 €500 €376 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-30 21:33:47 €500 €439 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-30 21:33:11 €500 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-30 21:32:34 €500 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-30 21:32:00 €500 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-30 21:31:34 €500 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-30 21:29:20 €500 €314 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-30 21:28:54 €500 €2 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-30 21:28:30 €500 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-30 21:28:02 €500 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-30 21:27:36 €500 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-30 21:27:10 €500 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-30 21:26:43 €496 €1 Detalhes da ronda

2021-04-23 10:33:05 €30 €8.46 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-23 10:19:20 €20 €46.68 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-23 10:17:39 €20 €4.1 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-22 11:05:07 €20 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-22 11:02:48 €10 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-22 11:00:37 €30 €10.98 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-22 11:00:10 €20 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-22 10:57:40 €30 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-22 10:57:12 €20 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-21 16:19:33 €20 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-21 16:19:04 €40 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-21 16:18:17 €50 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-21 16:17:54 €40 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-21 16:16:49 €40 €0.52 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-21 16:08:32 €100 €0.2 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-21 16:08:07 €100 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-21 16:07:31 €80 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-21 15:24:22 €20 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-21 15:22:25 €30 €15.72 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-21 15:20:14 €20 €15.52 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-21 14:30:20 €10 €102.36 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-21 14:29:51 €20 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-21 14:26:52 €20 €26.92 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-21 14:24:38 €20 €17.96 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-21 14:24:08 €20 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-21 14:01:03 €30 €0.6 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-21 13:59:24 €20 €2.36 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-21 13:56:41 €20 €12.32 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-21 13:53:20 €30 €92.7 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-21 13:51:31 €20 €4.68 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-21 13:49:04 €20 €14.24 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-21 13:48:27 €30 €0 Detalhes da ron

2021-03-12 23:14:23 €30 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-12 23:13:58 €100 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-12 23:13:34 €100 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-12 23:13:10 €100 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-12 23:12:44 €100 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-12 23:10:03 €50 €32.5 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-12 23:09:37 €100 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-12 23:06:37 €80 €76.08 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-12 23:06:08 €100 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-12 23:05:27 €100 €4 Detalhes da ronda

2021-04-08 21:15:31 €150 €331.2 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 21:13:26 €100 €57.4 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 21:11:27 €100 €24.8 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 21:10:23 €500 €2 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 21:09:57 €400 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 21:09:18 €500 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 21:06:38 €500 €126.5 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 21:06:11 €500 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 21:02:39 €500 €504.5 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 20:59:24 €350 €847.7 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 20:58:56 €500 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 20:58:31 €447 €0 Detalhes da ronda

2021-04-08 19:24:15 €100 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 19:23:30 €100 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 19:21:57 €150 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 19:21:29 €150 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 19:17:36 €150 €146.85 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 19:17:00 €150 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 19:16:25 €150 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 19:15:57 €40 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 19:01:12 €10 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 19:01:05 €10 €2 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 18:53:40 €100 €839.1 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 18:53:11 €300 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 18:52:40 €300 €2.4 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 18:52:04 €297 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 18:49:40 €250 €139 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 18:49:33 €5 €5 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 18:47:33 €250 €31 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 18:47:09 €200 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 18:46:41 €200 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 18:44:38 €200 €75.6 Detalhes da ronda
2021-04-08 18:44:04 €200 €0 Detalhes da ronda

2021-03-18 11:17:06 €120 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-18 11:16:27 €100 €0.8 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-18 11:16:01 €120 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-18 11:15:38 €150 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-18 10:52:54 €300 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-18 10:48:16 €100 €997.4 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-18 10:31:52 €400 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-18 10:31:16 €500 €10 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-18 10:30:46 €400 €5.2 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-18 10:30:19 €500 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-18 10:29:52 €500 €4 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-18 10:27:03 €500 €799.5 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-18 10:26:53 €10 €18 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-18 10:26:25 €500 €2.5 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-18 10:25:56 €500 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-18 10:23:19 €400 €233.6 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-18 10:20:18 €400 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-18 10:17:44 €500 €84 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-18 10:17:19 €500 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-18 10:15:32 €500 €47 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-18 10:10:41 €500 €1806 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-18 10:10:16 €500 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-18 10:09:10 €500 €2 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-18 10:08:46 €500 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-18 10:08:11 €500 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-18 10:07:33 €500 €0 Detalhes da ronda
2021-03-18 10:05:30 €500 €195 Detalhes da ronda

How does this data sound for you? @Big Time Gaming - Ill just keep it short, but, i have a big suspicion that at this point the gamble feature of extra chili at the casino i play is completely tanked. 8 spins, 12 spins, sporadic 16 spins, but forget 20 to 24 spins really. The amount of times it drops back to 8 or 12 is just unreal high. As you can see this is a log over the last 2.5 month. It kind of makes me sick to my stomach that i blast thousands of euro's in barely just a few minutes hoping to archieve the ultimate 24/10 euro spins feature, but it's as good as impossible.

The few wins that you see, is in my belief a compensation for the few losses that i had here and there. It happens over and over again. I mean i'm not even reaching from 8 to 12 6 out of 10 times and 12 to 16 is even worse. Dont start about going beyond.

I'm not sure what this data is supposed to show, but it doesn't show anything odd to me. And if you start at 8 spins, and gamble twice, your chance of getting to 16 spins (assuming both are 50/50) is 1 in 4. So 75% of the time, you will end up at 0 if you always make both gambles. So your "unreal" statistics are completely real.

 

[X-Raided]

I'm not sure what this data is supposed to show, but it doesn't show anything odd to me. And if you start at 8 spins, and gamble twice, your chance of getting to 16 spins (assuming both are 50/50) is 1 in 4. So 75% of the time, you will end up at 0 if you always make both gambles. So your "unreal" statistics are completely real.

Oh wow. @trancemonkey , so you're playing Extra Chilli and decide to buy a feature. You land "HOT" with no extra spins and
start off with 8 free spins and can gamble all the way to 24 spins. Please share what you'd do next as a player knowing the
mathematics behind everything.

 

[Halvor]

Oh wow. @trancemonkey , so you're playing Extra Chilli and decide to buy a feature. You land "HOT" with no extra spins and
start off with 8 free spins and can gamble all the way to 24 spins. Please share what you'd do next as a player knowing the
mathematics behind everything.

Yes, Trancemonkey makes the maths for every game in the industry, and have in-depth knowledge of the workings of slots from companies he have never worked for

Care to enlighten us all on what exactly with Trancemonkeys statement you find so off, and what exactly you feel supports Slotplayer83/Bloatgoat2.0's claims of foul play?

 

[X-Raided]

Yes, Trancemonkey makes the maths for every game in the industry, and have in-depth knowledge of the workings of slots from companies he have never worked for

Care to enlighten us all on what exactly with Trancemonkeys statement you find so off, and what exactly you feel supports Slotplayer83/Bloatgoat2.0's claims of foul play?

I think you might have read into my message incorrectly. I'm asking what he would do as a player knowing the mathematics behind feature gambles. Maybe he would take the 8 spins on Extra Chilli, or gamble to a certain number of spins.

Also, my question has nothing to do with any other member's posts.