Q&A Ask Me Anything about Slots (AMA) 2020 with Trancemonkey

Slotplayer83

Full Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2021
Location
World
Can i ask why a players ID and the casino's ID is being send in the URL ? They hide it using Base64. Apart from monitoring or logging purposes, what more can it provide or do without us knowing?

Second; how does the licensing of a game for a casino exactly work? And more important, how is the winning of this slot being 'distributed' ?

Is this,

A, The players playing by that casino on that particular game, their wagering or simply put play in hard cash is being distributed with the advertised RTP.

B, The players playing by that casino have no effect on where they come from, and the wins are being distributed randomly. More important on what factor is this distribution based?*

C, None of the above, the casino simply has a license for offering the game, and the RTP of the game is randomly distributed by the casino.

*I know that volume in a casino plays a very important role. Have a dozen of players and the activity and / or wins can be huge. Have just a few players and basicly you can be playing against yourself it seems.

I'm sorry i just dont understand one thing. Over the last 6 months ive bin playing in one particular casino. Ive posted about this before, but here it goes. Initially i won 6k or so, i spunked it. Over weeks of time i deposit around 1500 to 2000 euro and i get back to the now 7k. I spunk it. I was attempting a high limit session and i was'nt affraid to lose it. Nothing. Weeks pass, so do my deposits, this time i finally tap the 10k. It took less then 20 minutes really to blow this all out on again a high limit session. Apart from being sickened by the volatility some games have, i hit nothing but a losing streak in any game over the last week.

My assumption is is that its just a matter of time (and deposits) before i am back at the 10k level + extra that i depositted? How big is the chance that my winnings wont be that +/- then i'm depositting really?

You cant tell me that i lose 5k, i do 2k deposits on avg and jump right back at a 7k, lose it, do again 2.5k of deposits, and boom back at 9 to 10k again, to hit a extreme wall of iron that even after 20 bonus buys (!) woud'nt come down. Please folks do not attempt this, this is in the course of 5 months by now and not one day. This is the only solid pattern i have that i'm working with and the only thing random really is "when" it's going to drop in again.

I wrote the casino in particular a few questions, just out of honesty, see if they are eager to answer them correctly. I wrote also that it will be my last time as well, because for me the fun kinds of stops when you know your walling things in a very artificial way. How else can i explain it. "All slots are told to be random" yet after a big win everything is dead. Like it's just sucking you up till the next deposit.

how many times people here attemped to 50 autoplay spins any game, woud'nt hit, and suddenly after your deposit it's right back at it. It's designed to keep you playing; to keep you depositting; next deposit it's going to be ok. If people dont understand how gambling online technically is designed, you won't break it. That's for sure.

If anyone remembers bandit winning 100k; after his withdrawl, he knew that it was going to be a loss streak. He attempted to do quite a few vids on low stakes. Pretty much all the luck was gone at that point. In every stream to be seen (powerup slots). Rocknrolla admitted to spunk 80 to 90k at one casino. Yet he won 90k back in december. Exactly what he poured in in a way. Stick long enough and you might record your own next win.

Perhaps a casino is just a reversed bank these days. You can stall it with certain uncertainty about when your going to get your investment minus interest back.
 

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
Can i ask why a players ID and the casino's ID is being send in the URL ? They hide it using Base64. Apart from monitoring or logging purposes, what more can it provide or do without us knowing?

Second; how does the licensing of a game for a casino exactly work? And more important, how is the winning of this slot being 'distributed' ?

Is this,

A, The players playing by that casino on that particular game, their wagering or simply put play in hard cash is being distributed with the advertised RTP.

B, The players playing by that casino have no effect on where they come from, and the wins are being distributed randomly. More important on what factor is this distribution based?*

C, None of the above, the casino simply has a license for offering the game, and the RTP of the game is randomly distributed by the casino.

*I know that volume in a casino plays a very important role. Have a dozen of players and the activity and / or wins can be huge. Have just a few players and basicly you can be playing against yourself it seems.

I'm sorry i just dont understand one thing. Over the last 6 months ive bin playing in one particular casino. Ive posted about this before, but here it goes. Initially i won 6k or so, i spunked it. Over weeks of time i deposit around 1500 to 2000 euro and i get back to the now 7k. I spunk it. I was attempting a high limit session and i was'nt affraid to lose it. Nothing. Weeks pass, so do my deposits, this time i finally tap the 10k. It took less then 20 minutes really to blow this all out on again a high limit session. Apart from being sickened by the volatility some games have, i hit nothing but a losing streak in any game over the last week.

My assumption is is that its just a matter of time (and deposits) before i am back at the 10k level + extra that i depositted? How big is the chance that my winnings wont be that +/- then i'm depositting really?

You cant tell me that i lose 5k, i do 2k deposits on avg and jump right back at a 7k, lose it, do again 2.5k of deposits, and boom back at 9 to 10k again, to hit a extreme wall of iron that even after 20 bonus buys (!) woud'nt come down. Please folks do not attempt this, this is in the course of 5 months by now and not one day. This is the only solid pattern i have that i'm working with and the only thing random really is "when" it's going to drop in again.

I wrote the casino in particular a few questions, just out of honesty, see if they are eager to answer them correctly. I wrote also that it will be my last time as well, because for me the fun kinds of stops when you know your walling things in a very artificial way. How else can i explain it. "All slots are told to be random" yet after a big win everything is dead. Like it's just sucking you up till the next deposit.

how many times people here attemped to 50 autoplay spins any game, woud'nt hit, and suddenly after your deposit it's right back at it. It's designed to keep you playing; to keep you depositting; next deposit it's going to be ok. If people dont understand how gambling online technically is designed, you won't break it. That's for sure.

If anyone remembers bandit winning 100k; after his withdrawl, he knew that it was going to be a loss streak. He attempted to do quite a few vids on low stakes. Pretty much all the luck was gone at that point. In every stream to be seen (powerup slots). Rocknrolla admitted to spunk 80 to 90k at one casino. Yet he won 90k back in december. Exactly what he poured in in a way. Stick long enough and you might record your own next win.

Perhaps a casino is just a reversed bank these days. You can stall it with certain uncertainty about when your going to get your investment minus interest back.
I'll have a stab haha

Most game providers host all the game logic and also all of the back end services like reporting, bonusing, blocking of players etc. For this kind of functionality, you need to know the Casino a request came from (as you will likely be integrated to multiple) and you need to know the player who is playing. Certainly on the game server my company provided, I could sit there and watch a live report of an individual players play (and did so on occasions where big roulette winners were playing 1k a spin). We also held player location details for regulatory and language/currency purposes (different regulations require different game implementations, so knowing a players location is needed to know if they need bonus buy on/off, spin limits, autoplay on off etc).

So there are tonnes of reasons why player information is passed to the game provider. None of them are nefarious (note, they COULD be, anything is possible. All the information COULD be used to rig anything you wanted. The point is, it's not, because that comes back to the whole conspiracy of the fact that rigging slots is pointless for the Casino's when they already make plenty of money legally).

On to the RTP question. None of your scenarios are correct, as they are based on a missunderstanding of RTP. RTP is not a 'pot' that is distributed. It is an outcome of the mathamatical model the slot is based on. Think of a coin. Odds are 50/50 for heads/tails. The coin isn't thinking 'I'm going to be heads for this guy and tails for the next one'. It's just statistics based on the possible outcomes. Slots are the same principal.

Here is a video where I explain RTP and even do a practical example of a slot showing how it works:


As for the rest, that is basically what you'd expect. If an RTP is 96%, then statistically, if you put in 100k you will get 96k back. Obviously there is variance around this, but broadly that is the point of the games. Big wins are rare, losses are common. So you may get lucky and get two big wins in a row (my wife has had back to back bonuses on Safari Megaways for instance), but more likely is you will get a big win and then a big run of losses or small wins. Again using a practical example, if you roll a 6 on a dice, then don't roll a 6 for a few rolls, you don't think the dice is rigged, you just know your chance of hitting lots of 6's is low.
 

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
Can i ask why a players ID and the casino's ID is being send in the URL ? They hide it using Base64. Apart from monitoring or logging purposes, what more can it provide or do without us knowing?

Second; how does the licensing of a game for a casino exactly work? And more important, how is the winning of this slot being 'distributed' ?

Is this,

A, The players playing by that casino on that particular game, their wagering or simply put play in hard cash is being distributed with the advertised RTP.

B, The players playing by that casino have no effect on where they come from, and the wins are being distributed randomly. More important on what factor is this distribution based?*

C, None of the above, the casino simply has a license for offering the game, and the RTP of the game is randomly distributed by the casino.

*I know that volume in a casino plays a very important role. Have a dozen of players and the activity and / or wins can be huge. Have just a few players and basicly you can be playing against yourself it seems.

I'm sorry i just dont understand one thing. Over the last 6 months ive bin playing in one particular casino. Ive posted about this before, but here it goes. Initially i won 6k or so, i spunked it. Over weeks of time i deposit around 1500 to 2000 euro and i get back to the now 7k. I spunk it. I was attempting a high limit session and i was'nt affraid to lose it. Nothing. Weeks pass, so do my deposits, this time i finally tap the 10k. It took less then 20 minutes really to blow this all out on again a high limit session. Apart from being sickened by the volatility some games have, i hit nothing but a losing streak in any game over the last week.

My assumption is is that its just a matter of time (and deposits) before i am back at the 10k level + extra that i depositted? How big is the chance that my winnings wont be that +/- then i'm depositting really?

You cant tell me that i lose 5k, i do 2k deposits on avg and jump right back at a 7k, lose it, do again 2.5k of deposits, and boom back at 9 to 10k again, to hit a extreme wall of iron that even after 20 bonus buys (!) woud'nt come down. Please folks do not attempt this, this is in the course of 5 months by now and not one day. This is the only solid pattern i have that i'm working with and the only thing random really is "when" it's going to drop in again.

I wrote the casino in particular a few questions, just out of honesty, see if they are eager to answer them correctly. I wrote also that it will be my last time as well, because for me the fun kinds of stops when you know your walling things in a very artificial way. How else can i explain it. "All slots are told to be random" yet after a big win everything is dead. Like it's just sucking you up till the next deposit.

how many times people here attemped to 50 autoplay spins any game, woud'nt hit, and suddenly after your deposit it's right back at it. It's designed to keep you playing; to keep you depositting; next deposit it's going to be ok. If people dont understand how gambling online technically is designed, you won't break it. That's for sure.

If anyone remembers bandit winning 100k; after his withdrawl, he knew that it was going to be a loss streak. He attempted to do quite a few vids on low stakes. Pretty much all the luck was gone at that point. In every stream to be seen (powerup slots). Rocknrolla admitted to spunk 80 to 90k at one casino. Yet he won 90k back in december. Exactly what he poured in in a way. Stick long enough and you might record your own next win.

Perhaps a casino is just a reversed bank these days. You can stall it with certain uncertainty about when your going to get your investment minus interest back.
Oh, I forgot to address licensing.

This varies wildly. There are 3 parties involved who all get a cut of profits. The Casino, The Game Platform, The Game Provider. Game Platforms that have more Game Providers available can cut better deals. Game Providers who have the most popular content can also cut better deals.

Roughly though, in the deals we used to sign, the Game Provider would get around 5% of monthly profits, the Platform Provider would get around 12% and the Casino takes the rest. If a game makes no profit in a month, then no one gets paid (this does happen more often than you think).

There are all sorts of commercial models though. Flat fees for exclusives, bigger/smaller percentages. Carryover of losses against future months, brown bags full of money when something goes wrong (not kidding).
 

trancemonkey

Ueber Meister
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Location
United Kingdom
I'll have a stab haha

Most game providers host all the game logic and also all of the back end services like reporting, bonusing, blocking of players etc. For this kind of functionality, you need to know the Casino a request came from (as you will likely be integrated to multiple) and you need to know the player who is playing. Certainly on the game server my company provided, I could sit there and watch a live report of an individual players play (and did so on occasions where big roulette winners were playing 1k a spin). We also held player location details for regulatory and language/currency purposes (different regulations require different game implementations, so knowing a players location is needed to know if they need bonus buy on/off, spin limits, autoplay on off etc).

So there are tonnes of reasons why player information is passed to the game provider. None of them are nefarious (note, they COULD be, anything is possible. All the information COULD be used to rig anything you wanted. The point is, it's not, because that comes back to the whole conspiracy of the fact that rigging slots is pointless for the Casino's when they already make plenty of money legally).

On to the RTP question. None of your scenarios are correct, as they are based on a missunderstanding of RTP. RTP is not a 'pot' that is distributed. It is an outcome of the mathamatical model the slot is based on. Think of a coin. Odds are 50/50 for heads/tails. The coin isn't thinking 'I'm going to be heads for this guy and tails for the next one'. It's just statistics based on the possible outcomes. Slots are the same principal.

Here is a video where I explain RTP and even do a practical example of a slot showing how it works:


As for the rest, that is basically what you'd expect. If an RTP is 96%, then statistically, if you put in 100k you will get 96k back. Obviously there is variance around this, but broadly that is the point of the games. Big wins are rare, losses are common. So you may get lucky and get two big wins in a row (my wife has had back to back bonuses on Safari Megaways for instance), but more likely is you will get a big win and then a big run of losses or small wins. Again using a practical example, if you roll a 6 on a dice, then don't roll a 6 for a few rolls, you don't think the dice is rigged, you just know your chance of hitting lots of 6's is low.

Thanks for the answer @The Reel Story - you've basically written exactly what i would have said.

Humans are pattern recognition machines - this is a scientific fact; it's why we see animals / faces in clouds, or why we see a picture of jesus in a dog poo. So when we see "patterns" to things, it is just our brain trying to make sense of what it sees, and because we can't comprehend true randomness, we assume it HAS to be doing something nefarious. I make these day in, day out, and even i sit here playing one of my own games saying to myself "this is in a foul mood at the moment", and if i didn't know it was just luck, i would swear blind it had decided to financially rape me.
 

trancemonkey

Ueber Meister
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Location
United Kingdom
Oh, I forgot to address licensing.

This varies wildly. There are 3 parties involved who all get a cut of profits. The Casino, The Game Platform, The Game Provider. Game Platforms that have more Game Providers available can cut better deals. Game Providers who have the most popular content can also cut better deals.

Roughly though, in the deals we used to sign, the Game Provider would get around 5% of monthly profits, the Platform Provider would get around 12% and the Casino takes the rest. If a game makes no profit in a month, then no one gets paid (this does happen more often than you think).

There are all sorts of commercial models though. Flat fees for exclusives, bigger/smaller percentages. Carryover of losses against future months, brown bags full of money when something goes wrong (not kidding).
We tag-teaming on this thread now then ;)
 

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
We tag-teaming on this thread now then ;)
I try to take a bit of the load off you where I can hehe. Your industry knowledge is far more up to date than mine though! I've been out of it for about 7 years at this point.

Also I, like you, sit there and swear at games. I literally have to say to myself 'You know this isn't screwing you on purpose.... but it's still BS' :p None of us are immune to it, and I can easily see how people who don't have detailed knowledge just get convinced it's all a sham.
 

neon claws

Experienced Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2020
Location
Australia
A question not related to games being rigged:

How much access do frontline support staff have to sensitive systems/documents?
I'm sure at the bigger reputable casinos it's probably limited, but I can't help think that at the smaller, dodgier casinos "Mike" in the live chat is selling our ID documents to the Russian Mafia and filling his friends accounts up with free money each Friday night...
 

mack341

Senior Member
Joined
May 8, 2018
Location
south east england
If Banks are vulnerable...

Rise in ‘inside job’ bank frauds​

Staff are being targeted by scammers hoping to get hold of customers’ financial details​

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
[paywalled but the first lines give the gist]

Fraudsters are bribing or blackmailing bank staff for customers’ information, The Times has learnt. As banks reveal a startling increase in scams during lockdown, the number of bank insiders being targeted by criminal gangs has doubled in the past year.

There is a special police unit focusing on insider crime, where bank staff paid by criminals could compromise the personal information of hundreds of thousands of customers.


-------
Another good reason SOW's should probably be based on gambling behaviour rather than blanket, wonder if the ukgc or information commissioner ever considered the data protection implications of people being required to send their private financial information via email to online casinos in the uk or abroad, and any extra safeguards required due to the sensitivity of the info?
 

trancemonkey

Ueber Meister
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Location
United Kingdom
A question not related to games being rigged:

How much access do frontline support staff have to sensitive systems/documents?
I'm sure at the bigger reputable casinos it's probably limited, but I can't help think that at the smaller, dodgier casinos "Mike" in the live chat is selling our ID documents to the Russian Mafia and filling his friends accounts up with free money each Friday night...
I'm afraid I don't know the answer to that. In Europe I imagine there is a lot of protection, but outside of GDPR areas, I imagine you might be right...
 

sledge13

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2014
Location
York
So if slots have no memory than how do Wild Swarm, Lil Devil and the new Jammin Jars 2 know your progress even if you come back 2 weeks later?
 

burgstrom

New Game: Divine Links :)
Joined
Mar 18, 2018
Location
Malta
So if slots have no memory than how do Wild Swarm, Lil Devil and the new Jammin Jars 2 know your progress even if you come back 2 weeks later?
Some Slots do have a "memory". These slots are persistent state slots or binding feature slots (there are many industry names). They record events that may or may not impact RTP, both on an individual player level but also Progressive Jackpot games can be seen as this too, depending on how you look at it.
 

Slotplayer83

Full Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2021
Location
World
Also I, like you, sit there and swear at games. I literally have to say to myself 'You know this isn't screwing you on purpose.... but it's still BS' :p None of us are immune to it, and I can easily see how people who don't have detailed knowledge just get convinced it's all a sham.

Well, there's only one guarantee we have to this. We're losing. And pretty much fast. It's designed to take your money. But the fairness seems more to be in favor of the casino then the players. How else can you look at this objectively. I've read all the dozen articles about entering with a clear mind etc and not be sucked into it. It's very difficult. Lets put it like that.

How do i otherwise express myself. If i had to choose in between spending 500 euro in a landbased or online. I'd take landbased all day and night. It's not because of the lower RTP's. It's because of actually standing a more fair chance to come ahead. If i'm not winning i could switch fysical machine and try my luck there. The volatility might not be so extended to planet uranus, but it really takes a good handpay and call it a day.

At least we know for instance, that machines are independent. And the actions are truely random. And that once i won big on machine A, i could try my luck on machine B, C, D and so on. We all know the fun stops at a certain point in online, where "somehow" none of the slots seem to work. Rigged? Limited? Capped?

You tell me (And trancemonkey) why the obvious seems to be mocked here as "humans like to see patterns" .. no shit sherlock. It's based on experience. And everytime almost yields the same results at some point. So how on earth is this just my mind as it's right in front of me.
 

neon claws

Experienced Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2020
Location
Australia
At least we know for instance, that machines are independent. And the actions are truely random. And that once i won big on machine A, i could try my luck on machine B, C, D and so on. We all know the fun stops at a certain point in online, where "somehow" none of the slots seem to work. Rigged? Limited? Capped?
While I disagree with absolutely everything in your post I particularly wonder why you assume to "know" that land based machines are "independent"?

You know they're all linked via a network right? There's no reason they couldn't be doing all the shenanigans you imagine they're doing with the online slots with the physical ones also.

What it comes down to is your accusations are vague and unprovable - can you sum up what your actual theory is on how the slots are rigged in a sentence, not a sprawling paragraph of anecdotal observations, because from there you could go about debating it via gathering actual evidence.

BTW evidence is not; the slots are all cold!
Evidence would be; here's my spreadsheet of 100,000 spins showing a significant variation from the theoretical RTP.
 

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
question for @The Reel Story & @trancemonkey how many lines of code in your random function? Are you guys using some hardware to generate seeds? It seems fairly to write the code of a slot machine but making sure the RNG doesn't mess up it's another story
I don't work there anymore, and the platform I ran is no longer in use, so no idea on the number of lines of code (would estimate a few hundred) but I can tell you the model our RNG used.

The core algorithm was a Mersenne Twister, which is a predictable, but fast (back then) pseudo random number algorithm. We used (I think) 36 of them chained in a loop. The Mersenne Twister is predictable after collecting ~600 numbers, so after each twister had generated about 500, one of the RNG's is re-seeded by a 'true' random number generator. This could be our internal one (don't know the algorithm but used white noise in there somewhere I believe), or it could be an integration to a hardware RNG, or one a Casino provided.

When one of the twisters is re-seeded by the 'true' RNG, it then re-seeds the next one etc until the whole loop is re-seeded, and then they go and generate another ~500 numbers each.

Each twister only generates one number and then moves on to the next. This makes sure that no individual player is getting a stream of numbers from the same twister (even if they were the only player using the system).

Making sure the RNG is solid is actually fairly easy, because the RNG has to be accredited every year by an independent body who will deep it 'sufficiently random' for use in the industry. If the RNG is messing up, it will not get accreditation.

However, even this doesn't stop people worrying. I once had to deal with a Casino taking all our games off line, reverse engineering our RNG code and sending it to a 3rd party to analyse. They did this because a couple of people were winning big on Roulette (I think they using Martingale which can give good short term returns if keep a bit of luck). They were convinced the players had worked out how to predict the results and that our RNG was at fault. Their 3rd party pulled the code apart and, predictably, came back with the determination that we were using the Mersenne Twister which is a predictable pseudo RNG and therefore our implementation was flawed.

We spent a couple of days tearing through our code, just to be 1000000% sure there was no vulnerability, and then I spent hours on the phone to numerous senior people at the Casino, with a number of our engineers, explaining exactly how the model worked, how it wasn't possible to get to the required ~600 numbers for prediction, that even if they did, it was all but impossible for an individual to get those numbers from a single twister, especially considering the fact that there were thousands of concurrent players all getting sent random numbers.

I think it ended up with them never putting our games live again. Despite all the evidence we gave them, they just couldn't get past what some random 3rd party had told them. The main issue was that they didn't really understand Roulette, and what's funny is, they weren't the only ones. I would estimate we had worries from 5 or 6 Casino's about Roulette being broken (even using their own RNG's, because they had some big winners). It's frigging Roulette! How does a Casino not understand how that game works? People do win on it sometimes :) If you take the game down, all you do is stop them from putting their winnings back!

So yeh, anyway, there is how the RNG worked and some fun industry stories about RNG. It's not just players who get suspicious haha.
 

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
Well, there's only one guarantee we have to this. We're losing. And pretty much fast. It's designed to take your money. But the fairness seems more to be in favor of the casino then the players. How else can you look at this objectively. I've read all the dozen articles about entering with a clear mind etc and not be sucked into it. It's very difficult. Lets put it like that.

How do i otherwise express myself. If i had to choose in between spending 500 euro in a landbased or online. I'd take landbased all day and night. It's not because of the lower RTP's. It's because of actually standing a more fair chance to come ahead. If i'm not winning i could switch fysical machine and try my luck there. The volatility might not be so extended to planet uranus, but it really takes a good handpay and call it a day.

At least we know for instance, that machines are independent. And the actions are truely random. And that once i won big on machine A, i could try my luck on machine B, C, D and so on. We all know the fun stops at a certain point in online, where "somehow" none of the slots seem to work. Rigged? Limited? Capped?

You tell me (And trancemonkey) why the obvious seems to be mocked here as "humans like to see patterns" .. no shit sherlock. It's based on experience. And everytime almost yields the same results at some point. So how on earth is this just my mind as it's right in front of me.
You won't like the answer, but because our experiences are different and filtered through the perspective of our minds and our personalities.

Land based slots are designed and target a different type of player, in general (Trance can probably expand more). So it's not unusual to have someone who likes land based but doesn't like online. The games play and feel different.

However, your experience and my experience differ. I've been to Vegas a few times. Put thousands through the slots. Biggest win I've ever had is probably ~400x. Contrast that to online where my biggest win is over 3000x. My wife's biggest win is over 10000x (DOA2 wildline), and where I've had numerous >500x and >1000X.

So while I agree land based is less volatile, my experience is that I've had a better time online.

Strictly statistically, land based slots have much lower RTP, so while I know you said ignoring RTP, just for clarity, you mathematically have a better chance online.

Also, as was noted, most games in land based are networked these days, and you also have the added complexity of different rules around RTP. Land based often have worse RTP and lower denominations (1c) and better RTP at higher denominations ($1). Also the machines next to the exits are normally lower RTP, designed to drain the last of your money before you leave. Then there are the numerous other psychological tricks employed by land based Casinos (lack of windows, free drinks etc), so it's not just the slots working against you.

Still love Vegas tho :p
 

TamingTheBeast

Full Member
MM
Joined
Oct 5, 2019
Location
Canada
I don't work there anymore, and the platform I ran is no longer in use, so no idea on the number of lines of code (would estimate a few hundred) but I can tell you the model our RNG used.

The core algorithm was a Mersenne Twister, which is a predictable, but fast (back then) pseudo random number algorithm. We used (I think) 36 of them chained in a loop. The Mersenne Twister is predictable after collecting ~600 numbers, so after each twister had generated about 500, one of the RNG's is re-seeded by a 'true' random number generator. This could be our internal one (don't know the algorithm but used white noise in there somewhere I believe), or it could be an integration to a hardware RNG, or one a Casino provided.

When one of the twisters is re-seeded by the 'true' RNG, it then re-seeds the next one etc until the whole loop is re-seeded, and then they go and generate another ~500 numbers each.

Each twister only generates one number and then moves on to the next. This makes sure that no individual player is getting a stream of numbers from the same twister (even if they were the only player using the system).

Making sure the RNG is solid is actually fairly easy, because the RNG has to be accredited every year by an independent body who will deep it 'sufficiently random' for use in the industry. If the RNG is messing up, it will not get accreditation.

However, even this doesn't stop people worrying. I once had to deal with a Casino taking all our games off line, reverse engineering our RNG code and sending it to a 3rd party to analyse. They did this because a couple of people were winning big on Roulette (I think they using Martingale which can give good short term returns if keep a bit of luck). They were convinced the players had worked out how to predict the results and that our RNG was at fault. Their 3rd party pulled the code apart and, predictably, came back with the determination that we were using the Mersenne Twister which is a predictable pseudo RNG and therefore our implementation was flawed.

We spent a couple of days tearing through our code, just to be 1000000% sure there was no vulnerability, and then I spent hours on the phone to numerous senior people at the Casino, with a number of our engineers, explaining exactly how the model worked, how it wasn't possible to get to the required ~600 numbers for prediction, that even if they did, it was all but impossible for an individual to get those numbers from a single twister, especially considering the fact that there were thousands of concurrent players all getting sent random numbers.

I think it ended up with them never putting our games live again. Despite all the evidence we gave them, they just couldn't get past what some random 3rd party had told them. The main issue was that they didn't really understand Roulette, and what's funny is, they weren't the only ones. I would estimate we had worries from 5 or 6 Casino's about Roulette being broken (even using their own RNG's, because they had some big winners). It's frigging Roulette! How does a Casino not understand how that game works? People do win on it sometimes :) If you take the game down, all you do is stop them from putting their winnings back!

So yeh, anyway, there is how the RNG worked and some fun industry stories about RNG. It's not just players who get suspicious haha.

Thanks so much for this, very interesting. What about language for coding what did you guys used to write? I think you mentioned on another post that it has been a while since you were out of the industry so maybe I'm assuming Actionscript on the UI (because of flash) and what about the back-end ?
 
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