All British Casino & Issues with a cashout

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
What I have a problem with is that they'll gladly accept thousands of euros or pounds or whatever without actually caring at all if it's clean or not. As long as you don't cash out anything you can fund their casino with all the not so clean money in the world and they couldn't give two shits about it.

That's just wrong IMO. A casino should NEVER be able to hold someones money as hostage. They're not any government agency.
I don't disagree, but you need to blame the UKGC for that, when they are going round fining casinos millions for not doing this, it's inevitable that casinos will do it.
However, they can't just hold money hostage, there are steps to take, and it might not be resolved within an hour, but it will get resolved, even if it means at the worst, going to court.

I've had different emails from customer service and customer complaints, some say its SOW then some say its EDD. All I know is no matter what I've said or asked they simply refuse to pay out no matter what.

In which case I would ask for which exact regulation they are relying on to hold your funds, and then start a PAB or go to the ADR.
 
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Carl8/11

Newbie member
Joined
Mar 22, 2021
Location
Essex
I don't disagree, but you need to blame the UKGC for that, when they are going round fining casinos millions for not doing this, it's inevitable that casinos will do it.
However, they can't just hold money hostage, there are steps to take, and it might not be resolved within an hour, but it will get resolved, even if it means at the worst, going to court.



In which case I would ask for which exact regulation they are relying on to hold your funds, and then start a PAB or go to the ADR.

I'm not an impatient person, I'll gladly wait, and I'll very gladly take them to court if I need to. Then it would allow everyone to see how they behave when you try to make a withdrawal. I'm aware these regulations are because of the UKGC but some casinos are interpreting it however it suits them to hold withdrawals hostage and this just isnt on
 

Mr Wild

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Location
Malta
The only reason they could keep your funds is if they got strict orders from NCA to do so. Otherwise they are in so many breaches not only with their licence conditions. However I have hard time seeing that L&L would make such a mistake.
 

Mr_Slot5

Senior Member
Joined
May 6, 2019
Location
Cheshire
I can’t see it being in anyone else’s hands other than ABC as they are the ones wanting the docs.

When all said and done I think they’ll just close his account and pay him...but they sure have dragged it out. I still think it’s a business decision to try and get the docs so the account doesn’t need to be closed. For every instance of closing an account like this, they won’t get the withdrawals played back as future deposits.
 

Carl8/11

Newbie member
Joined
Mar 22, 2021
Location
Essex
The only reason they could keep your funds is if they got strict orders from NCA to do so. Otherwise they are in so many breaches not only with their licence conditions. However I have hard time seeing that L&L would make such a mistake.

Well according to them they are doing everything right and above board.
As I've said I've supplied redacted bank statement which show my payments to my bank account from my business account all of which tie in with my deposits to them, (which are also shown on the bank statements) so I don't see any reason the NCA would be involved.

Plus All British said in the last email which is on here if I send them full bank statements showing all transactions they will pay the withdrawal so I really feel it's just them trying to keep me as a customer and being very awkward with the withdrawal. (I mean why would I stay with a casino that hold withdrawals to ransom?)
 

L&L-Jan

Affiliate Manager for Accredited Casinos
Joined
Jun 15, 2013
Location
Malta
The MLRO wants to establish the source of funds used to gamble, for that the last step is the bank statement. I know we have players here who had to provide a bit more, and some a bit less. Unfortunately that's not up to me to decide.

As for holding the funds as pending, as far as I know the UKGC says that is not allowed if you had enough time to conduct these checks. That's not always the case during a customer journey. Some customers hit our SOW thresholds within a matter of minutes.

I know it's not fun and negatively affecting the customer experience. The first casino asking a bank statement for SOW from me was Cashmio, didn't provide and never logged in agian. After that more requests came and I've just been providing them accordingly. For me personally I simply need to accept those requests and provide whats asked for, or stop gambling. I opted for the first option.
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
The MLRO wants to establish the source of funds used to gamble, for that the last step is the bank statement. I know we have players here who had to provide a bit more, and some a bit less. Unfortunately that's not up to me to decide.

As for holding the funds as pending, as far as I know the UKGC says that is not allowed if you had enough time to conduct these checks. That's not always the case during a customer journey. Some customers hit our SOW thresholds within a matter of minutes.

I know it's not fun and negatively affecting the customer experience. The first casino asking a bank statement for SOW from me was Cashmio, didn't provide and never logged in agian. After that more requests came and I've just been providing them accordingly. For me personally I simply need to accept those requests and provide whats asked for, or stop gambling. I opted for the first option.
But you can't just keep customer funds as you are saying in the emails posted. It's also doesn't help (if the OP is correct) that you are saying it's for SoW purposes in some emails, and EDD in others (you as in L&L not you personally).

As an aside, for information, the ONLY casino I have gone through a SoW check with is L&L, as mine is particularly complicated having income from multiple sources, and no payslips, but got through it relatively quickly with Jan acting as a go between with the MLRO. I know for a fact it wouldn't have been so painless with any other casino, or if Jan hadn't been involved.
 

johnnymcc1966

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2017
Location
United Kingdom
I've just been asked for a utility bill by AllBritish,which I have just provided and hope to get my first reasonable withdrawal in some time very soon. I suppose that the annoying thing is that customers are never asked when they don't make a withdrawal and are just depositing and losing it all and then when they actually win they ask for information. This is where the frustration stems from.
 

Mr_Slot5

Senior Member
Joined
May 6, 2019
Location
Cheshire
I think there’s going to be a crunch point where these overseas casinos have to make a decision whether it’s worth it to keep offering their services to UK players. Is it really worth the hassle with more and more red tape being heaped on by the UKGC?

I think it comes down to the point that most casual players will be ok with slow spins, even auto play removal but for many, having intrusive requests for scrutiny of bank accounts is a step too far. I mean, you can go and deposit a cheque for £1000 at a bank with no hassle but you can’t deposit £100 to play at a casino without being suspected of RG issues or a launderer.

The whole thing needs to be cleaned up and I think a lot of frustration from players could be avoided by simply halting deposits rather than allowing them and then denying cash outs.

Going forward I think something better needs to be implemented. Perhaps verification at source I.e the banks certify the bank account used to fund the play so the casinos are removed of that burden...perhaps only needing to verify ewallets and other methods of payment that don’t involve the bank. Banks carry out their own AML checks anyway so I’m not sure there is much risk to casinos from card deposits anyway as things stand. Large scale fraud would already be picked up.

I also think there seems to be too much conflation between the checks. If it’s an RG check then this should be communicated to the customer...and obviously this isn’t a valid reason to withhold withdrawals.
 

danofthewibble

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Location
UK
Reading what has been said here, it looks like the casino is erring on the side of caution. The OP has said his source of funds is his own business, i.e. not a regular salary.

It also seems that he’s a high-roller, and has hit the SOW checks very quickly.

Realistically, my advice remains the same at this point; provide the docs they want, you’ll get your money. I have no doubt of that. And then never gamble online again, because these requests aren’t going away.

Even the providers that don’t do it yet will; it’s only a matter of time. Usually when they get their first big fine for inadequate SOW checks.

(I suspect the less famous operators, the ones we here like more, they’re doing it because they can’t afford massive fines. Sky and Ladbrokes - fines are a drop in the ocean, so leave it until they have no choice.)
 

Mr_Slot5

Senior Member
Joined
May 6, 2019
Location
Cheshire
(I suspect the less famous operators, the ones we here like more, they’re doing it because they can’t afford massive fines. Sky and Ladbrokes - fines are a drop in the ocean, so leave it until they have no choice.)
As Colin has said before, the likes of Sky, Hills and Ladbrokes have been doing them for years- they just seem to understand and can spot which players constitute an AML or fraud risk better than the Maltese casinos who haven't had to deal with SOW much before. This has led to them being caught with their trousers down, with the main documented cases involving 6 figure sums. Ergo they are now cracking a nut with a sledgehammer in some cases.

Someone depositing large and often, only turning the deposit over once or twice before withdrawing is clearly a risk. Someone depositing £50 and sitting for a couple of hours playing Book of Dead and Bonanza clearly isn't.

If the industry is going to survive, there clearly has to be a modicum of perspective and common sense instigated. Rather than a blunt arbitrary figure for a checks trigger, the MLRO should be actively looking at individual cases. What are the deposit levels like? turnover? Does the player have active deposit and loss limits active on the account (shows RG unlikely to be an issue). A lot of due diligence can be done behind the scenes.

It's a fine balance between turning players away and satisfying the regulators to the minimum requirements.
 

Carl8/11

Newbie member
Joined
Mar 22, 2021
Location
Essex
Reading what has been said here, it looks like the casino is erring on the side of caution. The OP has said his source of funds is his own business, i.e. not a regular salary.

It also seems that he’s a high-roller, and has hit the SOW checks very quickly.

Realistically, my advice remains the same at this point; provide the docs they want, you’ll get your money. I have no doubt of that. And then never gamble online again, because these requests aren’t going away.

Even the providers that don’t do it yet will; it’s only a matter of time. Usually when they get their first big fine for inadequate SOW checks.

(I suspect the less famous operators, the ones we here like more, they’re doing it because they can’t afford massive fines. Sky and Ladbrokes - fines are a drop in the ocean, so leave it until they have no choice.)
I wouldn't say I'm a high roller at all.
My account with All British after the £4k withdrawal would be about -£1800 over a couple of months.

I've provided everything theyve asked for, and obviously they still want full disclosure to my bank statements but I wont give them that. That wont change as theres personal transactions on there that are none of their business.

I play on a few other sites, some of which I've spent 10s of thousands and never had an issue once. I've made withdrawals without any issues many times.

I think All British just dont really know what they should or shouldn't be doing. Many people are saying and have said they cant do the what they are doing but its not stopped them from continuing, but as I Replied to Colin I'm a patient person and will take this as far as I need to to get the right conclusion.

I'll just keep this thread updated so everyone can see what could happen with a casino that seems to want to withhold withdrawals.
 

Beer&Chillies

Registered
Joined
Apr 9, 2021
Location
Toronto
I want to let this thread know that I created a CM forum account this morning, to start a similar thread, but can report happily that it's no longer necessary; my Race Casino (L&L) account was just verified, and my withdrawal was approved.

I'd been waiting two weeks for them to complete their EDD process, and was getting very nervous that my money would be trapped forever. Their frontline customer service team is very pleasant and gets on chat right away, but they are a concrete wall between the customers and the EDD team.

Anyway, assuming my wire shows up in the next few days, all's well that ends well. For @Carl8/11 or anyone else in EDD/SOW limbo, L&L does get it done (eventually).

NB: They did ask for bank statements, which I submitted with all irrelevant transactions redacted.
 
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Carl8/11

Newbie member
Joined
Mar 22, 2021
Location
Essex
So just a quick update on the farcical All British Casino SOW/EDD or whatever else they call it.

I tried to complain to someone higher up and they pointed me to a separate company that handles there PAB. So I went through that process and they took 3 weeks to come back and auto reject my complaint as All Britihs told them I havent completed my EDD therefore there is nothing they can do.

So I bit the bullet and submitted my unredacted bank statements, thinking this will be a simple process in as its the o ly option left to me. Oh how wrong I was, they are happy with my money that comes from my business account to the account I use to deposit, and they are happy with the recycled money from withdrawals from them but they dont like that I have money going to and from my partners bank account, and have now told me I need to provide her bank statements to show proof of where her money comes from......they have literally requested he bank statements as proof and without them will still not release the funds.
 

Carl8/11

Newbie member
Joined
Mar 22, 2021
Location
Essex
Could someone knowledgable on this pleas tell me if I'm correct or not? I've told them to either start Money laundering procedures against me or pay me as there is no way they have the right to demand a third parties bank statements.
 

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Carl8/11

Newbie member
Joined
Mar 22, 2021
Location
Essex
Could someone knowledgable on this pleas tell me if I'm correct or not? I've told them to either start Money laundering procedures against me or pay me as there is no way they have the right to demand a third parties bank statements.

So another follow on, I've spoken with the UKGC who have told me that I have no obligation to supply third party bank statements unless they were used to deposit directly to the gambling site (which they were not) and theyve also informed me to take All British Casino to court to recover my withheld Withdrawal.

Be aware of this casino and the way they hide behind the AML rules and will do whatever thay like if it means they can withhold your money.
 

Mr_Slot5

Senior Member
Joined
May 6, 2019
Location
Cheshire
So another follow on, I've spoken with the UKGC who have told me that I have no obligation to supply third party bank statements unless they were used to deposit directly to the gambling site (which they were not) and theyve also informed me to take All British Casino to court to recover my withheld Withdrawal.

Be aware of this casino and the way they hide behind the AML rules and will do whatever thay like if it means they can withhold your money.
Wow that’s a development and a half. So they’re essentially saying casinos have no remit to ask for third party documentation. Huge. It’s what @colinsunderland has been saying all along.

I think if casinos are forced to not withhold withdrawals we’ll either see a lot pull from the UK market or, if they’re smart, be a little bit wiser as to who they send SOW requests to.
 

Carl8/11

Newbie member
Joined
Mar 22, 2021
Location
Essex
Wow that’s a development and a half. So they’re essentially saying casinos have no remit to ask for third party documentation. Huge. It’s what @colinsunderland has been saying all along.

I think if casinos are forced to not withhold withdrawals we’ll either see a lot pull from the UK market or, if they’re smart, be a little bit wiser as to who they send SOW requests to.

I went through my scenario with the man and he put me on hold to check exactly as he didnt want to miss inform me, but for my case (All British asking for my business account and my Mrs bank accounts as there is money transferred to my personal account that I used to deposit) he told me they dont have any right to ask for it as it wasnt used to deposit directly to them.

I'll keep this updated once I get a bit further down the line with my Solicitor and make some progress towards Court action.
 

Mr Wild

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Location
Malta
A woman last week in Malta was denied withdrawing cash from her own bank account due to bank didnt feel she gave them valid reason on what she intended to do with funds!

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