Affiliate Union

[mojo]

I want to perhaps shed some light on why this was started in the first place. I think we have lost that in all the muck.

The affiliates right now are in crisis. What we are doing is not enough! It's not working! Term changes, stats problems, payment problems to name a few are out of control. It is getting worse and worse. AGD is only one man. He can't be expected to fight alone. He does a dam great job of it though and I personally am endebted to him. I can't say enough about AGD.

What is wrong with trying to help fight the fight? No one had to worry. This wasn't going to be another forum.

The last thing I wanted to see was harm from this. Seriously, I am aghast at the way things turned out. I was donating time and money freely. I know it's hard to believe. Others were too. No good deed goes unpunished I think is the saying.

 

[Nandakishore]

This thread and the parallel thread in the GPWA forum have shocked me. They show how a good and laudable idea can get crushed due to high degree of mistrust and aggression among those who are either involved in the process or interested in its outcomes. It is just horrifying

 

[greek39]

My Personal Opinion,

I remain certain something good will be derived from these minor distractions. The bottom line is WE NEED CHANGE! And now. Programs are changing their T&Cs or the way they conduct business every other second. Webmasters IMO have remained stagnate letting it slide for too long. Collectively individual affiliates can make change happen.

Details

Affiliate Union and the process and design in it's being have not been thought out properly.

I must ask do we continue with the outdated mindset we currently have. Or do we shake of the dust and start thinking about new and innovative approaches. Because IMO nothing seems to be working. I do not relish in the fact Grand Prive or GW are running around smoking big cigars and driving fancy cars at the expense of more nobler persons. Grand Prive should be brought down to their knees and beg for mercy. Think I enjoy watching the theft go on month after month. Do you really think the same old song and dance will work?

If your earn your keep you deserve to be paid regardless if the program is rouge or not. BTW regarding gamtrak people have went far and beyond abuse. Please give her a break already.

The fact is the AU has good intentions wait and see. I refuse to travel the same old dirt road on this one. The only mess here is the failure to stay on the intent of the thread, which was,

I am just worried that the affiliate community will become even more fragmented as a result.

My input, it already is so what difference would it make this thread demonstrates this fact.

greek39

 

[jas2587]

All affiliate communities including CAP should be coming together and acting in tandem to tackle head on the programs who have stepped out of line.


I am trying to understand this post here Cap charges dont they an the AU was or is gonna be free So how can you include Cap into this an they have a huge record of Ripping people off yes Lou is no longer with them so they say but Warren was a member toooo when all the Cap nonsense went down


Cindy

 

[greek39]

I am trying to understand this post here Cap charges dont they an the AU was or is gonna be free So how can you include Cap into this an they have a huge record of Ripping people off yes Lou is no longer with them so they say but Warren was a member toooo when all the Cap nonsense went down

IMO CAP has no business here half the reason were in this mess. But collectively individual affiliates do. A grass roots approach to solving some issues. Big or small affiliates heavy weights small weight does not matter if we are treated as equals a good thing or not?

greek39

 

[Webzcas]

I am trying to understand this post here Cap charges dont they an the AU was or is gonna be free So how can you include Cap into this an they have a huge record of Ripping people off yes Lou is no longer with them so they say but Warren was a member toooo when all the Cap nonsense went down


Cindy

My point being that any and all communities or organisations that support affiliates in this industry need to sing from the same hymn sheet. This includes CAP - as they are still in operation - Many of their current members are new blood.

If the current existing affiliate organisations are unable to work on a strategy to combat the likes of Grand Prive, then what hope does a new union, nay two proposed new unions have?

 

[greek39]

communities or organisations that support affiliates in this industry need to sing from the same hymn sheet.

From some communities or organizations have we seen adequate support for the individual affiliate. Not really IMO otherwise Mojo and another thousand individual affiliates would not be screaming their heads off. Some get the attention some don't and for me that is unacceptable.

BTW I seriously do not think we need public boards to take the fight to Grand Prive. Most process skills to make their existence miserable.

greek39

 

[mojo]

If the current existing affiliate organisations are unable to work on a strategy to combat the likes of Grand Prive, then what hope does a new union, nay two proposed new unions have?

That is my point. If the existing affiliate organizations are unable to work on a straegy, then the answer is THE AFFILIATES. The affiliates have the power that is not tapped into. Individual entities and individuals are not working! The current status quo is not effective. My ideal was claiming the right to organize as affiliates together as one.

Why say doom before there is even a try for it? That is what I don't get. Why shoot it down?

At any rate it is counterproductive to have two. So it's all moot.

 

[AussieDave]

If the current existing affiliate organisations are unable to work on a strategy to combat the likes of Grand Prive, then what hope does a new union

I'm all for discuss issues but in CM own words:

Just a polite reminder - please feel free to begin another thread dealing with any other aspect of the AU. This thread has the probability to become a monster in length, and I just want to make a preemptive strike to keep things organized. Thanks!

Or are you continuing to allow it to be off topic because it serves a purpose. A way to convolute & or avoid the APCW Anthony involvement


Cheers

Dave

 

[mojo]

I'm all for discuss issues but in CM own words:


Or are you continuing to allow it to be off topic because it serves a purpose. A way to convolute & or avoid the APCW Anthony involvement


Cheers

Dave

Dave, I don't understand.

Webzcas and the rest of us are having a healthy affiliate debate.

 

[greek39]

That is my point. If the existing affiliate organizations are unable to work on a straegy, then the answer is THE AFFILIATES. The affiliates have the power that is not tapped into. Individual entities and individuals are not working! The current status quo is not effective. My ideal was claiming the right to organize as affiliates together as one.

Why say doom before there is even a try for it? That is what I don't get. Why shoot it down?

At any rate it is counterproductive to have two. So it's all moot.

It will happen regardless who supports or not for me, for you, and for any others who demand real change. Programs will be held accountable for their sometimes brutish actions. Only then we need not worry if our labors go unappreciated.

Man I am starting to sound like Obama trying to pass Health Care Reform. Good analogy lol.

greek39

 

[casinojack]

Just need organization and a team and you guys can do well, take your time...

Don't jump the gun, and when you go forward stay focused...Don't start , then stop, then start, etc etc.

I am wishing you luck..

 

[greek39]

Thank you Jack and this is the attitude we must have, positive!

greek39

 

[jas2587]

I'm all for discuss issues but in CM own words:


Or are you continuing to allow it to be off topic because it serves a purpose. A way to convolute & or avoid the APCW Anthony involvement


Cheers

Dave

Dave I have a question for you or for any that was to be the founding members of the AU since the AU website was signed over to you (( Dave)) we can say that you now own it now I am wondering does Mr X Mr Y an Corfman have any stake in it an if so what is that stake? Was there a contract signed between Mr X Mr Y an Corfman an the founding members that was picked to head the AU?


Thanks
Cindy

 

[mojo]

Dave I have a question for you or for any that was to be the founding members of the AU since the AU website was signed over to you (( Dave)) we can say that you now own it now I am wondering does Mr X Mr Y an Corfman have any stake in it an if so what is that stake? Was there a contract signed between Mr X Mr Y an Corfman an the founding members that was picked to head the AU?


Thanks
Cindy

Thanks for the question Cindy.

The general consensus as far as the domain.. affiliateunion.org .. is that is was given to the founders in good faith to be used for the good of the union. However, Dave chose to take control and be at 'the helm'. He shut it down on the rest of us without consulting us or with our consent.

There was no contracts or anything. Just a bunch of affiliates trying to do the right thing.

 

[jas2587]

Thanks Mojo


I will think before I post what is coming to my mind lol

Cindy

 

[jod5413]

Well Jas,

The only thing I can think of is...

This "venture" was doomed from the get go because the founding members all had to many "issues", whether personal, physical, or mental, to give it any chance at all of it succeeding.

Lets see, one member is bi-polar, and possibly has other "issues", one is a drunk that likes to threaten people, one is an unknown entity, and one is too naive to be up to the task.

The fact that they are sniping at each other here at Casinomeister tells me they are not mature enough, at the least, to make this "AU" or "GAU' work.

Definitely not the right people to make this type of venture work.

 

[mojo]

Well Jas,

The only thing I can think of is...

This "venture" was doomed from the get go because the founding members all had to many "issues", whether personal, physical, or mental, to give it any chance at all of it succeeding.

Lets see, one member is bi-polar, and possibly has other "issues", one is a drunk that likes to threaten people, one is an unknown entity, and one is too naive to be up to the task.

The fact that they are sniping at each other here at Casinomeister tells me they are not mature enough, at the least, to make this "AU" or "GAU' work.

Definitely not the right people to make this type of venture work.

Ouch Jod. Downright nasty. I guess I am the naive one.

I am out of this whole "venture". As I said before.

I don't know where you got your information but no matter what you think that is not very nice of you at all to judge like that.

Not kind!

 

[greek39]

Well Jas,

The only thing I can think of is...

This "venture" was doomed from the get go because the founding members all had to many "issues", whether personal, physical, or mental, to give it any chance at all of it succeeding.

Lets see, one member is bi-polar, and possibly has other "issues", one is a drunk that likes to threaten people, one is an unknown entity, and one is too naive to be up to the task.

The fact that they are sniping at each other here at Casinomeister tells me they are not mature enough, at the least, to make this "AU" or "GAU' work.

Definitely not the right people to make this type of venture work.

Not good at all good thing i will respect the rules here.

greek39

 

[mojo]

Moderator Please Close

 

[greek39]

Don't bail Mojo because were under a noob attack lol.

I think this thread has run its course.

 

[jod5413]

No, it is not kind, it is the truth though. I am sorry, but every time someone wants to "make a difference" they do not seem to understand that their "background" counts. That simply dooms the "project" from the get go. It requires an impeccable background, and more to make people listen.

Ouch Jod. Downright nasty. I guess I am the naive one.

I am out of this whole "venture". As I said before.

I don't know where you got your information but no matter what you think that is not very nice of you at all to judge like that.

Not kind!

 

[AussieDave]

Lets see, one member is bi-polar, and possibly has other "issues", one is a drunk that likes to threaten people, one is an unknown entity, and one is too naive to be up to the task.

As I'm one that likes to be an open book, I'll put my hand up to having bi-polar...I've not hidden that fact a number of people know it...

However taking wise cracks at anyone with a disability is about as mature a school yard bullying.

You ought to be totally ashamed that you'd even think such a thing, let along post it to a public forum.

I actually pity people like you. And you think I'm the one with the mental issues

It's people like you who keep things like the KKK active.


Cheers

Dave

 

[mojo]

Don't bail Mojo because were under a noob attack lol.

I think this thread has run its course.

Personal attacks. I hope this closes.

 

[greek39]

Your an wicked breed Jod5413 what does calling people drunks, bi-polars have anything to do with the intent of the thread. If you would like to talk about people I will meet you on Dark Net in twenty. My user name is flewtrap.

You too mrractrack.

Go there it will be my pleasure.

greek39

 

[jas2587]

I just found it odd that they would just turn a site over to you Founding members an not want something in return I mean Mr X an Mr Y an Corfman could have done this new AU site theirselves
What is their Motive behind it all something is not being said at all an the fact that they Chose Dave to issue the License too an not The other Founding Members an that they Picked who they wanted something isnt adding up

Then out of the blue Dave decides to shut down Until Mojo an I am sorry I dont remember the persons name chose to open GAU then he decides hmmm maybe I will still go ahead an open it

I like to fish an I even bait my own hook but for some reason this is way to fishy

Cindy

 

[jod5413]

Aussie Dave,

I am not taking cracks at anyone here. I am stating facts. I am being truthful and do not see that I am someone who should be ashamed. Never been a member of the KKK, sorry to disappoint you. Cheers.

Greek,

I have too much personal experience with you to even dream of going to Dark Net, whatever that may be. You and I have a bit of history or have you forgotten that? Wicked Breed? Who's kidding the kidder here, Peter?

Mojo,

Truly I do not like having to address you, I do think you are the " nice one" and yes, very naive. I think you let certain elements in this business steer you the wrong way.

My personal thoughts, only.

Jod

 

[greek39]

Greek,

I have too much personal experience with you to even dream of going to Dark Net, whatever that may be. You and I have a bit of history or have you forgotten that? Wicked Breed? Who's kidding the kidder here, Peter?

Where is the muscle behind the mouth? Afraid? And you don't even know what Dark Net is and I am unqualified? Dark net has been around for the last twenty years.

Go there I will open up.

greek39

 

[mojo]

Mojo,

Truly I do not like having to address you, I do think you are the " nice one" and yes, very naive. I think you let certain elements in this business steer you the wrong way.

My personal thoughts, only.

Jod

I don't like it either jod. I am praying and hoping for a mod to come in.

 

[mrracetrack]

Your an wicked breed Jod5413 what does calling people drunks, bi-polars have anything to do with the intent of the thread. If you would like to talk about people I will meet you on Dark Net in twenty. My user name is flewtrap.

You too mrractrack.

Go there it will be my pleasure.

greek39

Hey Greek...

Why did you include "me" in your post?

I have hardly been "involved" in all this the past couple days.

You got a problem with me??

Did I post something about YOU in this thread??

Why would I possibly want to "meet you" anywhere?

 

[greek39]

Maybe a thanks for her/it post did it. Why meet me at Dark Net? Because many can vouch for my character there. Jod just put itself in liability status I kid you not. Lawsuits have been swinging all over Cyber space because of this.

greek39

 

[AussieDave]

Hi Jas,

If you haven't already I'd go take a read of the mini novel I posted at the AU thread over at the GPWA.

A synopsis would be...I brought up the subject of "someone should start an affiliate union" by posting this at the GPWA.

I also posted the same idea over at AGD. I even approached Andy and said he should do something like it...

3 - 5 days later I received a PM from APCW Anthony who said he's read my posts and agreed it was a good idea.

He approached the subject and stated he and JTodd tried this at CAP 4 years previously but it gone shot down in flames. However now he thought it would work and asked if I'd be interested in heading it up....

In so far as contracts or contra deals between APCW/GPWA/Casino City/Michael Corfman there were none. Least nothing that I signed or agreed to.

The only activity in which a direct connect was established was when APCW Anthony transfered the domain over to me and when Anthony suggested the three founding members, which included GamTrak.

It was not until Michael Corfman asked for a founding membership placement and the refusal that followed that things seemed to go haywire.

The GamTrak / GW / Virtual Casino Group bomb shell...Followed by every one taking pot shots at the founders followed in succession. With no show of hand from Anthony making a public announcement that it was he who chose GamTrak, I was left with no alternative but to realise the fact behind how the AU was commenced.

Not that anything in my mind pointed any type of integrity issues onto mojo, chalkie or I.

For the record and as I've said, in hindsight I shouldn't have just taken APCW Anthony's word on his founding member inclusions. I should have vetoed all candidates. However I didn't and I simply trusted APCW Anthony's judgement.


Cheers

Dave

 

[mojo]

Someone please put us out of our misery.

 

[mrracetrack]

Maybe a thanks for her/it post did it.

greek39

Greek... let me make sure I have this right...

So you're pissed off because I "thanked" a post a member made... and you add me to your silly response to jod5413 because of that?

Yeah... you sure would have been a "real asset" being one of the "founders" in that AU group...


Go have a few more drinks, Peter.

 

[greek39]

That's right and is accurate. Suppose I was right in my assumption considering you calling me a drunk. Which I am not and no worries you will never dampen my spirits.

Assuming I am drunk please go there.

greek39

 

[maxd]

Two questions:

1) WTF is going on here? Can someone explain the problem in 20 words or less?

2) Racetrack & jod5413: is there any connection between the two of you? If you'd prefer to respond via PM that is fine by me.

PS. Please forget this 'Dark Net' stuff. Encouraging our members to take CM discussions elsewhere is pretty dubious IMO.

 

[mrracetrack]

Nevermind.

 

[AussieDave]

I am not taking cracks at anyone here. I am stating facts.

I've got no problem with people stating facts, facts are good, just like the truth which should go hand in glove.

But you didn't just post facts, you took my disability and combined it into a context that even blind Freddy could see was a slur against my character.

Anyway...I'm not hear to debate my intellectual capacity or mental condition with someone that's obviously just stepped out of the La Chapelle-aux-Saints cave.


Cheers

Dave

 

[greek39]

I call your bluff and say BS, post them.

You have that option turned off here

I am afraid I don't. Post the PM's I would like everyone to see.

greek39

 

[mojo]

Two questions:

1) WTF is going on here? Can someone explain the problem in 20 words or less?

Personal attacks. Superiority complex. Unresolved childhood issues. Nepoleon complex. Stuff like that.

 

[maxd]

Lets see, one member is bi-polar, and possibly has other "issues", one is a drunk that likes to threaten people, one is an unknown entity, and one is too naive to be up to the task.

Please take a few minutes to review the Forum Rules. In particular note the following:

1. General Posting Rules:

1.1 - No "Flaming": Please do not post any messages that harass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member or guest. Abusive behavior will not be tolerated and your account may be suspended. Please refrain from potty mouth language.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Regards,
Max.

 

[greek39]

Nevermind.

I thought so...

greek39

 

[maxd]

Nevermind.

Excuse me? I asked you a direct question and I expect an answer, on or offline as you prefer.

In case you've forgotten the question was:

Is there some connection between you and jod5413?

I ask because I have concerns regarding the integrity of posts made here in this thread. That is a fair and reasonable concern. I am waiting for your response.

 

[greek39]

Nevermind was replaced instead of mrracetrack's desire to post some really nasty PM's apparently from me. I suppose to demonstrate my drunken nasty behavior.

He spare me.

Calling it a day Max.

greek39

 

[maxd]

I've been told that Jod is posting for Racetrack because of computer problems or whatever ... dicey stuff but I think we've got bigger problems here.

I'm temporarily closing this so folks can chill a bit (and get their computers working again or whatever).

Come back with cooler heads folks.

 

[AussieDave]

Mental illness is No Joke!

Hi all,

I'm writing this because one of our peers decided to post a response to me that included the fact that I have a mental illness.

The payload intended to cause not only character damage but to inflict as much personal hurt as possible.

Fortunately for me things like this don't affect me because I simply view anyone who would stoop to such depths of depravity as being very iffy in their morals.

However it could certainly affect someone else who has a mental illness. In fact if the same post was sent to the a person who was in the depths of depression it could very well lead to this person committing suicide.

As senior member of this forum I'm totally disgusted at the level to which this post has been levelled.

It's one thing calling someone a mindless moron or other such personal digs.

But it's a totally different ball park when one thinks it's OK to take pot shots at someone with a disability.

1 in 4 people have some form of mental illness.
Anxiety and the by product of this panic attacks are on the increase.
These are a form of mental illness also.

As someone who has bi-polar and who has to deal with the issues that presents on a daily basis, I am compelled to by my own sense of moral fibre to say that anyone who throws such comments & or attitudes around or at another human being should hang their head in shame.

I sure hope that my my peers on CasinoMeister.com do not condone this type of behaviour.



Cheers

Dave

 

[daera]

Hi all,

I'm writing this because one of our peers decided to post a response to me that included the fact that I have a mental illness.

The payload intended to cause not only character damage but to inflict as much personal hurt as possible.

Fortunately for me things like this don't affect me because I simply view anyone who would stoop to such depths of depravity as being very iffy in their morals.

However it could certainly affect someone else who has a mental illness. In fact if the same post was sent to the a person who was in the depths of depression it could very well lead to this person committing suicide.

As senior member of this forum I'm totally disgusted at the level to which this post has been levelled.

It's one thing calling someone a mindless moron or other such personal digs.

But it's a totally different ball park when one thinks it's OK to take pot shots at someone with a disability.

1 in 4 people have some form of mental illness.
Anxiety and the by product of this panic attacks are on the increase.
These are a form of mental illness also.

As someone who has bi-polar and who has to deal with the issues that presents on a daily basis, I am compelled to by my own sense of moral fibre to say that anyone who throws such comments & or attitudes around or at another human being should hang their head in shame.

I sure hope that my my peers on CasinoMeister.com do not condone this type of behaviour.



Cheers

Dave

I don't condone it. And I don't think most people here condone it.

It was a b.s. thing to post. Forget it, it's not worth dwelling on too much.

 

[maxd]

AussieDave, I've merged your post -- originally a new thread -- here because it obviously is a response to an earlier post in this thread.

As I've told you, the person in question has been warned, dinged on Rep and Bryan has been notified. This is normal procedure for situations like this and not a trivial response.

If you have further issue with this please direct it to Bryan or myself. Posts to the boards which are obviously meant as messages to us personally are not really kosher.

I should also add that if you PM me and for whatever reason you decide you don't like my response to the issue raised your next step should not be to post your issue to the boards. Bryan, not the forums, is the proper next step for your complaint. Trying to use the boards to crowbar us into doing what you want is way uncool.

Regards,
Max.

 

[The Dude]

Sometimes it totally amazes me on how grown adults act in a public forum. What total bullshit.

Jod - 14 day suspension for making vicious comments about fellow members. Totally uncalled for.
Mrracetrack - your "thanks" capabilities have been revoked for thanking this post:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/affiliate-union.33462/

Some of you need to seriously grow up.

 

[JHV]

My Thoughts on the concept of an "Affiliates Union"

Some random thoughts / sentiments that others may share (note: I started writing this in response to suggestions in the [now-locked - (edit: now unlocked - thx Max, locking of thread was definitely appropriate ofc)] AU thread that an Affiliates Union would be setup where the people running it would receive no reimbursement):

I'd be a WHOLE lot more comfortable with being part of an affiliates' union if members were charged subscription fees (like every union does across the globe, at least I've never heard of one that didn't).

However, unions have power - that is their point, of course. But the power must rest with the union membership, not with union leaders. Union leaders should only ever be the public face of and the representatives of the union's power - they should never hold actual power - and the only way to ensure this is a proper charter and regular elections.

Frankly, I question why anyone would want to put in huge amounts of work running a union for no reimbursement - on the condition that their leadership cannot be revoked. That would not be a union, it would be more like fascism For what it's worth, fascism only has a negative connotation because humans are what we are. Power corrupts the best of men. I am only repeating what a journalist who claimed to be an expert on African affairs once told me, but he claimed Mugabe was a true patriot when he came to power - all he cared about was justice for his subjugated countrymen. And look at him now. A miserable wreck of a man doing more damage to his country every day he stays in power - living in palaces whilst children starve in the streets.

In regards to Nandakishore's comment about being uncomfortable with who attributes 'rogue' status in the AU thread: I would hope that one of the PRIMARY goals of any affiliate union would be to determine who is rogue and who isn't. And this would be done by public discussion and consensus - or even a vote requiring x% (where x = 2/3rds?) for the motion to be passed (should the particular Rogue Question be controversial or divisive).

But, however an affiliate union determines who is 'rogue' and who is 'not-yet-rogue', once that determination is reached, the union should show it's power by universal disassociation from that rogue operator. And any who don't like it can cross the "picket line" and subject themselves to calls of "scab" and whatnot - but they should have their membership revoked if they are draining the union's overall power by refusing to follow the union decision. I, personally, would see no point in being in an affiliates' union if that union allowed members - when faced with a union vote of (example only) 71% ROGUE - to continue to promote that Rogue without being forced to walk the picket line.

Unions can be incredibly powerful, but ONLY through effective organisation, a well-written and unambiguous charter, and transparent ballots which result in a strong Public Face of Singularity - this means strict "tow the party line" rules in regards to attitude and behaviour, even if you disagree with the consensus on that issue. A union allowed to have members who don't follow the consensus and just do their own thing as it suits them would, in my opinion, be a union with no power.

Without power, what would be the point?

---------

BTW I seriously do not think we need public boards to take the fight to Grand Prive. Most process skills to make their existence miserable.

I like the cut of greek39's jib

From what I've heard of Grand Prive, sure sounds like they technically 'deserve' it - and in a lawless environment, I can sympathise with the vigilante sentiment. Just not sure vigilante action is the answer though - there might be avenues like an Affiliates Union worth pursuing first - and, frankly, I'm a bit concerned such skills could be targeted at the "good guys" I guess.

I've always felt conflicted on the vigilante issue. I think I'm against vigilante action in principle. But I know that if placed in certain hypothetical situations, my 'principled' opposition to vigilante action would be dismissed in about 0.003 seconds.