Affiliate Union

[suzecat]

Are you interested/involved in the online gaming industry and are pondering whether to keep your membership at Casinomeister?

FWIW, it would have taken just a few minutes of searching this board to discover that Gamtrak promotes rogue casinos. Would have saved a few eggs if that was done before she was presented as a founding member of an organization established as an affiliate union interested in fair play (gulp).


Anyone still pondering their membership here?

 

[swampwitch]

Hi all,

I'm not going the lay the boots into GamTrak.
She has been around long enough to know that both gamblingwages and Virtual Casino Group are at best doggy. At worst, clip joints that operate rogue casinos & sportsbooks. And webmasters should not touch them with a barge pole!

However I've made an observation that I feel most of you have overlooked. Or at least no one has posted about it.

As this thread was commenced on the AU topic, it's fitting to remind everyone that GamTrak was recommended as an Affiliate Union founding member to me by APCW Anthony.

However even after Gamtrak responded to Webzcas and admitted she was promoting a Virtual Casino Group casino, and all of the founding member of the AU coped it sideways...APCW Anthony didn't have the balls to post that he'd recommended GamTrak as a founding member of the AU.

That's why I ended up posting the entire story.

Surprisingly enough within 10 - 20 min of the AU details being made public by me, I receive a PM from APCW Anthony requesting a MSN chat and I also received an email too. Since then I've got several from APCW Anthothy.

Obviously tipped off by someone that he needed to get his butt over to the AU thread pronto.

If the truth be know, I'd bet he'd been there since GamTrak answered the VCG question.

I find it extremely funny and ironic that everyone is questioning GamTrak's ethics and integrity. But no one here (I've quit the GPWA so no idea what's been posted there) has bothered to raise any questions about the ethical part in which APCW Anthony played.

To me that sucks...


Cheers

Dave

You are absolutely correct. I've made my views known about "X and Y" across the street at the-place-that-shall-not-be-mentioned and haven't rehashed them here.
Answer...The APCW's 2 biggies and the GPWA are owned by you-know-who...GW cheerleaders all. Why wouldn't they insist Gamtrak, a mover and a shaker with a great big rep, be a "founder" when they see nothing wrong with GW anyway?
There's motives, and then there's motives. Do the math.

 

[AussieDave]

it would have taken just a few minutes of searching this board to discover that Gamtrak promotes rogue casinos. Would have saved a few eggs if that was done before she was presented as a founding member of an organization established as an affiliate union interested in fair play

I agree that this forum is a Pandora's box if you want to find info on someone

However, lets look at this in the exact and factual manner in which it was presented and also by whom this recommendation for GamTrak to be a founding member of the AU.

As an example...If CM's recommended something I doubt you or anyone else here would conduct a quick search to see if it's legit.

The same went for me when APCW recommended GamTrak as a founding member.

Hindsight is a great friend but reiterating...Although I questioned GamTrak's ability to keep her mouth in check, I didn't for one second question APCW Anthony's recommendation. Because like CM he's also well trusted.


Cheers

Dave

 

[mojo]

FWIW, it would have taken just a few minutes of searching this board to discover that Gamtrak promotes rogue casinos. Would have saved a few eggs if that was done before she was presented as a founding member of an organization established as an affiliate union interested in fair play (gulp).

As an (ex) founding member, I have to take my part of the resposibility for not checking out other founding members. I used to promote gambling wages myself a long time ago and it didn't occur to me that any founders would currently doing so.

Apologies and now I know better than to take something like this for granted.

 

[AussieDave]

Apologies and now I know better than to take something like this for granted.

I'm sorry that I didn't check too. But it's certainly given me a big wake up call. In future I wont be taking anyone's word on face value.


Cheers

Dave

 

[jas2587]

To be fair, Gamtrak has stated that when her media buy thingy with GW is up she won't be promoting them anymore.
Just putting that out there....

contracts can go on for years an years an years so...................
an lookin at her history with the rogue casino's .............

Cindy

 

[suzecat]

As an example...If CM's recommended something I doubt you or anyone else here would conduct a quick search to see if it's legit.

The same went for me when APCW recommended GamTrak as a founding member.Dave

Sure I would, especially if I had memory of involvement with rogues

 

[luckydabberbingo]

I agree that this forum is a Pandora's box if you want to find info on someone

However, lets look at this in the exact and factual manner in which it was presented and also by whom this recommendation for GamTrak to be a founding member of the AU.

As an example...If CM's recommended something I doubt you or anyone else here would conduct a quick search to see if it's legit.

The same went for me when APCW recommended GamTrak as a founding member.

Hindsight is a great friend but reiterating...Although I questioned GamTrak's ability to keep her mouth in check, I didn't for one second question APCW Anthony's recommendation. Because like CM he's also well trusted.


Cheers

Dave

Dave ,
I feel like I have pieces of the Puzzle until we get to see all the conversations and the spirit in which this offered was extended to you.
You are an active member of the affiliate community so I can understand why 'they' were looking to get someody like you to head it up.
Honestly when i seen the original post i assumed you came up with the idea
to start this and I think we were all surprised to see anthony ,Jtodd and GPWA mentioned.They have a big enough following they could support this on their own but they are obviously not neutral as the minute you take payments you cannot claim to be neutral on any program.
None of this makes sense to me right now unless plan B will be surfacing soon and we see a different color of paint on the wall

Judy

 

[jas2587]

Dave ,
I feel like I have pieces of the Puzzle until we get to see all the conversations and the spirit in which this offered was extended to you.
You are an active member of the affiliate community so I can understand why 'they' were looking to get someody like you to head it up.
Honestly when i seen the original post i assumed you came up with the idea
to start this and I think we were all surprised to see anthony ,Jtodd and GPWA mentioned.They have a big enough following they could support this on their own but they are obviously not neutral as the minute you take payments you cannot claim to be neutral on any program.
None of this makes sense to me right now unless plan B will be surfacing soon and we see a different color of paint on the wall

Judy

Integrity whom I think is J Todd has offered to produce his correspondence that pertains to all this except AussieDave resigned over at GPWA so how can all the pieces of the puzzle be displayed for all to see????

Cindy

 

[suzecat]

As an (ex) founding member, I have to take my part of the resposibility for not checking out other founding members. I used to promote gambling wages myself a long time ago and it didn't occur to me that any founders would currently doing so.

Apologies and now I know better than to take something like this for granted.

I'm sorry that I didn't check too. But it's certainly given me a big wake up call. In future I wont be taking anyone's word on face value.


Cheers

Dave

I joined this board years ago and yes, you will find my old posts touting the goodness of Virtual casinos

Being thick-skinned and stubborn (yes, it's true) it took CM and others a long damn time to prove to me the error of my ways.

RIP Lanidar.

So what I'd like to say, without stumbling any longer, is that as difficult as it may seem to accept there are people in this biz who will take advantage for personal gain, it is unfortunately very true.

IMO free will can be a double-edged sword (just keep your hiney out of the way and your ducks in a row ...............

 

[Auditor]

I did in fact recommend Gamtrak. My recommendation was based on her character and her activity in the forums. I did not review her site. I did not ask any qualifying questions. I just thought she would fight for affiliates rights. I am sorry it was an issue. Don't blame Robin, it is my fault she was involved.
I did not mean to put Dave in a bad situation by it. My apologies to Dave and to rest of the AU gang.

~ Anthony

 

[unicorn40]

You recommended her based on her character and her activity in the forums??
Then you must have known the crap casinos etc. that she has promoted for years....?

 

[AussieDave]

Integrity whom I think is J Todd has offered to produce his correspondence that pertains to all this except AussieDave resigned over at GPWA so how can all the pieces of the puzzle be displayed for all to see????

The only correspondence I had with JTodd regarding the AU was over on Facebook on the 6'th September 2009.

I'm happy to post that here if CasinoMeister (it's his forum) and Integrity (JTodd) is in agreement for me to do so.

Hell I'm happy post everything here between myself, APCW Anthony and Michael.

But I ain't posting jack at the GPWA.


Cheers

Dave

 

[JHV]

To be fair, Gamtrak has stated that when her media buy thingy with GW is up she won't be promoting them anymore.
Just putting that out there....

And after I finish robbing the last 2 of my 10 planned banks in my target area, I'm not going to do armed robbery anymore.

Just putting that out there.

 

[AussieDave]

Don't blame Robin, it is my fault she was involved.

Just your fault?

But you told me that you and JTodd had discussed the AU and its set-up. Or has the clique now elected (cough...told) you to be the fall guy

Or worse did you just tell me JTodd was involved in these discussions, when he wasn't?


Dave

 

[Pinababy69]

I really don't like the way this thing has all gone down.Robin was at least willing to put her time and effort into trying to make this work.Now it is just a bashing session against her.If we have to rogue every casino site and portal who has gambling wages on their site there wont be many of us left.

What's that old joke....what do you call 1000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean? Punchline....a good start. Getting rid of each and every affiliate and webmaster who INSIST on promoting GW and all the other Virtual shitholes would be a great start to cleaning up this industry IMO. And no offense intended to any lawyers who may read this....just quoting an old joke.

As to Gamtrak in particular...I do agree that this topic/thread shouldn't be focused solely on her/her involvement. I see a whole lot of other things at play here.

You are absolutely correct. I've made my views known about "X and Y" across the street at the-place-that-shall-not-be-mentioned and haven't rehashed them here.
Answer...The APCW's 2 biggies and the GPWA are owned by you-know-who...GW cheerleaders all. Why wouldn't they insist Gamtrak, a mover and a shaker with a great big rep, be a "founder" when they see nothing wrong with GW anyway?
There's motives, and then there's motives. Do the math.

I couldn't agree more Swamp. It's really becoming clear to me that this is less about Gamtrak, and much more about motivation. And fear of any organization that doesn't accept money for sponsorship, paid advertisement, etc. That is most definitely seen as a threat to the "common good", which is making money. Nothing wrong with making money, as long as it's done in an ethical manner. What I'm really seeing here is a desire to have a complete monopoly on the affiliate market, and how business is conducted.

My recommendation was based on her character and her activity in the forums.

Her character? Dear God Lisa, bite your tongue, bite your tongue, bite your tongue. Sit on your hands...okay, better now.

The only correspondence I had with JTodd regarding the AU was over on Facebook on the 6'th September 2009.

I'm happy to post that here if CasinoMeister (it's his forum) and Integrity (JTodd) is in agreement for me to do so.

Hell I'm happy post everything here between myself, APCW Anthony and Michael.

But I ain't posting jack at the GPWA.


Cheers

Dave

I just read your posts over "yonder" Dave. Ha...that's about all I can say. Pretty clear to me you put someone's nose out of joint. It's like you're the good cop in the precinct full of dirty ones, who refuses to take the kickbacks that all the others take every month. One word comes to mind....Pariah. That's you...or will be, if you don't keep quiet. Shhhhhh...... are ya scared yet? It's too bad that some have to rip you down for trying to do something "real", and God forbid....for NO money. Imagine. The nerve of you. Don't you know you're upsetting the apple cart, and throwing the universe out of whack? Bad, bad Dave.

I really hope you guys succeed with this (and you shouldn't drop out Dave). There is no better revenge than success. Remember that.

 

[AussieDave]

Anthony,

As I no longer visit, much less post at the GPWA, this is place (unless you visit the place over yonder) is where I'll be posting.

Given that fact...I have no other way of asking you to please stop emailing me.

I'm not interested.

Anything that needs to be said to me by you can be said in public. If you can't do that then it probably shouldn't be said at all.


Dave

 

[triple777s]

I am sorry if what i am about to say pisses anybody off, but what the F**k!

Do you see how screwed up our industry is? This whole project was supposed to be something GOOD, HELPFUL for ALL Affiliates, but look at what has become of it, in what...a day or two?

Jesus Christ no wonder we can't get a F**king thing accomplished in the business, everyone is out to make a freaking soap opera!

Ok, So Gamtrak promotes rogue programs, I am sure there are others here that also do it to, we just don't check every single site, hell i probably still have some up if you go back far enough in my archives, and what about Casino City? I still have a BIG problem that they still have links for Grand Prive Casinos up? Regardless of the "reason" they give, it still stinks, but that seems to be ok with everyone. There are soooo many rogue groups out there, I am sure everyone has a list of who "they" think is rogue and others don't....so just drop the tar and feathering of Robin, and get to the real subject here,

Why doesn't this industry accomplish anything good? Because the minute someone takes an initiative, it gets shot down, dramatized, lied about..etc. Unless of course the person starting the new endeavor is one of the "Lord Affiliates or Webmasters" that can DO NO F**KING WRONG.!!

This all Stinks, and I am so sick of people ripping each other, whats that saying.....

Let the one cast the first stone...etc..etc..etc..

 

[mrracetrack]

This is posted on the APCW site...

Gold Sponsors:

400 Affiliates
Doyle Brunson Poker Network
Gambling Wages

This is AFTER J.Todd had his "infamous" meeting in Costa Rica with Gambling Wages Affiliate manager Robert Green... and AFTER J.Todd admitted that all the promises made (on his video webcast) by GW to pay outstanding monies owed to winning players had NOT been kept.

Still "Gold Sponsors" on your site, Anthony & J. Todd??

Not surprising really... money talks... bullshit walks.

 

[chalkie]

I am getting from this thread that people see the direction that we as a union are heading in as good and that we will be supported.

I would like to take some heat from the topic and ask that people support the union and it endeavours.

I do believe that all organisations involved in fighting the bad in our industry are there to do so, however, also look to earn in the process. This will always promote a feeling of distrust to varied extent.

I cannot knock people for earning money from this industry and until now there has been no 1 person prepared to fight the enemy without making a buck off the back of it.

This until now has been the norm in this and most online industrys.

It is now clear that making money as a sideline from an organisation that is trying to fight the bad guys within is fraught with issues.

This is the reasoning behind the union and why we will not give up and let people down.

The union will have to work with the existing organisations in many ways in the future and this will be beneficial for the union and affiliates in the longterm.

Time is nigh for supporting anyone that can and will make a difference to the industry issues.

The time is not right for organisations to fight each other, the time is right to be united and conquer.

 

[swampwitch]

The time is not right for organisations to fight each other, the time is right to be united and conquer.

Wal-Mart
Bell Telephone
Haliburton

Beware of big umbrellas. Sometimes the one holding the handle kicks you into the acid rain.

 

[spearmaster]

Dear God Lisa, bite your tongue, bite your tongue, bite your tongue. Sit on your hands...okay, better now.

You're not the bite your tongue type... why turn over a new leaf now?

I'm trying my best to stay out of this entire conversation, but I will admit one thing - I was one of the first to take Gambling Wages/Cool Cat on many years ago... but that was before anyone established that GW was part of the Virtual Group, plus someone I thought I could trust was working there.

I also took a chance with Casino Extreme, part of the Warren Cloud group, but under very strong conditions - and to their credit, not a single issue happened while I promoted them.

There are sometimes good reasons to give someone a chance to prove themselves. Sadly, sometimes people don't grasp that opportunity - and both of these groups had a very short stay on my site. But experiences like these made it doubly important that I (and Casinomeister as well) knew who the top management was before we ever took on an operator after that.

Sorry for the derail.

 

[casinojack]

I am getting from this thread that people see the direction that we as a union are heading in as good and that we will be supported.

I would like to take some heat from the topic and ask that people support the union and it endeavours.

I do believe that all organisations involved in fighting the bad in our industry are there to do so, however, also look to earn in the process. This will always promote a feeling of distrust to varied extent.

I cannot knock people for earning money from this industry and until now there has been no 1 person prepared to fight the enemy without making a buck off the back of it.

This until now has been the norm in this and most online industrys.

It is now clear that making money as a sideline from an organisation that is trying to fight the bad guys within is fraught with issues.

This is the reasoning behind the union and why we will not give up and let people down.

The union will have to work with the existing organisations in many ways in the future and this will be beneficial for the union and affiliates in the longterm.

Time is nigh for supporting anyone that can and will make a difference to the industry issues.

The time is not right for organisations to fight each other, the time is right to be united and conquer.

Any UNION I have ever seen is supported financially by the members of the union, ie, "union dues".

If you all can get that figured out, then a charter, then the agreement with the ops....Won't be easy but I wish you all well...

 

[johnsteed]

Awesome quote...

***

Thanks for trying. It can be done, I know it can. It is just going to take the "right" kind of people behind it.

Exactly! :notworthy



Steed

***

 

[lots0]

....And fear of any organization that doesn't accept money for sponsorship, paid advertisement, etc. That is most definitely seen as a threat to the "common good", which is making money. Nothing wrong with making money, as long as it's done in an ethical manner. What I'm really seeing here is a desire to have a complete monopoly on the affiliate market, and how business is conducted.

BINGO.... we have a winner.