Affiliate Union

Webzcas

Winter is Coming!
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Location
Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
I'm still playing catch up with what is going on in the industry at this current moment in time. I was perusing the GPWA Board this morning when I came across a link to a new Affiliate Community in the making

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The Affiliate Union (AU) is bound by its belief that gambling affiliates have rights to fair treatment, contractual terms void of deceit and honest ethics by gambling affiliate programs. To maintain its autonomous core values and full transparency the gambling Affiliate Union is fully self-funded.

The AU founding members donate their time freely void of compensation, monetary reward or gratuity.The founders are volunteers and servants to the Affiliate Union.The AU does not accept sponsorship nor does it display any form of advertising. Its objectives ensure the voices of gambling affiliates will be heard and less than honourable treatment abolished.
So since the spectacular self destruction of CAP earlier this year we are now seeing another Affiliate Community/Portal rise from the ashes of CAP.

I can completely understand why the people behind this site want to launch it. I am just worried that the affiliate community will become even more fragmented as a result.
 

RobWin

closed account
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Location
A Vault!
I'm still playing catch up with what is going on in the industry at this current moment in time. I was perusing the GPWA Board this morning when I came across a link to a new Affiliate Community in the making

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.




So since the spectacular self destruction of CAP earlier this year we are now seeing another Affiliate Community/Portal rise from the ashes of CAP.

I can completely understand why the people behind this site want to launch it. I am just worried that the affiliate community will become even more fragmented as a result.
So who's behind this new place Webzcas if you know and don't mind saying that is?
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swampwitch

ProfessionalUnderachiever
Joined
Nov 20, 2002
Location
Iowa, dammit.
As a Nobody in the grand scheme of things, here's my 2 cents...which doesn't mean much...and all I really have to go on is that GPWA thread...

While I have some respect for certain of the "founding members", some of them I most certainly do not. Apparently "ethics" is a term that is subjective, and will only apply to how affiliates are treated, and not how they act.
I applaud the idea of not being beholden to sponsorships and the like, but I wonder how long that can last, knowing the history of past and present affy organizations.
I wish them well, but I see no advantage for the small, ethical, non-super affiliate to join. Mama don't shmooze.
At best, I will take a "wait and see" posture.
 
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mojo

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Location
East Coast
There are so many changes going on right now and things subject to change.
But I'll try to come back with more info.

I can confirm I am a founding member along with Greek and Chalkie and that it is not a forum. AussieDave is the owner and will be coming out with announcements.

As I said at GPWA, affiliates need to be wary. We have no choice and we have learned the hard way that to survive in this business we have to be cautious, if not downright distrustful. I wouldn't expect affiliates to be any other way regarding the AU.
 

JHV

<a href="http://www.casinomeister.com/meister_awar
Joined
Jun 2, 2005
Location
Perennial Traveler
There are so many changes going on right now and things subject to change.
But I'll try to come back with more info.

I can confirm I am a founding member along with Greek and Chalkie and that it is not a forum. AussieDave is the owner and will be coming out with announcements.

As I said at GPWA, affiliates need to be wary. We have no choice and we have learned the hard way that to survive in this business we have to be cautious, if not downright distrustful. I wouldn't expect affiliates to be any other way regarding the AU.
This is an interesting concept. I just checked out the site which appears to be under construction.

Are you able to give us more info mojo? It the simple idea to build numbers large enough to throw weight around in disputes? Cause I'd be down with that.
 

chalkie

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Location
UK
I would like to chip in now and allow you all the knowledge that i am 1 of the founders, none of us have a reason to hide our involvement as we will all be there on display when the doors are open.

I for one hope that it does not fragment the industry any further and can categorically state that we are not looking to replace CAP or sneak in to the void left since its demise.

Look guys, not taking direct sponsorship for the organisation is completely different to whatever any affiliate does in their own business.

OK, playing with the devil will not be a good idea for any founder, however, in todays climate, if any affiliate was to omitt every program that had some sort of issue in lets say the previous 12 months, then we would all be carrying very few banners etc.

Small affiliate, large affiliate, super affiliate, we are all affiliates and suffer to some degree with bad apples.

The AU will not be asking for people to drop out of supporting here, the GPWA, APCW or anywhere else, especially as all these organisations have much to offer to the affiliate community.

The AU will maybe work with all the other organisations at times and autonomously at other times.

To succeed the AU will need the support of the affiliate community and will need to come up with methods not so far employed by any organisation yet! The AU will need to show results, and i can assure you that all founders are 100% committed to trying to create a much more level playing field for all.

What i will say is that every single 1 of the founders is so because they want to help sort out some if not all of the problems we all see on a daily basis.

In my mind, the more people fighting the issues the better and if 1 organisation comes up with a system of winning the war against the crooks then that can only be good.

Do i ask for support? NO

Do i want support? YES

Will we succeed without support? NO

Will we succeed with support? MAYBE

So what have we to lose offering support to the AU?

We the founders of the AU are not intending on using the AU as a tool for gaining any type of rewards for ourself, however, we will as individual business people continue to earn a living out of the industry by other means!
 

JHV

<a href="http://www.casinomeister.com/meister_awar
Joined
Jun 2, 2005
Location
Perennial Traveler
OK, playing with the devil will not be a good idea for any founder, however, in todays climate, if any affiliate was to omitt every program that had some sort of issue in lets say the previous 12 months, then we would all be carrying very few banners etc.

Small affiliate, large affiliate, super affiliate, we are all affiliates and suffer to some degree with bad apples.

We the founders of the AU are not intending on using the AU as a tool for gaining any type of rewards for ourself, however, we will as individual business people continue to earn a living out of the industry by other means!
I'm interested in your idea and will likely lend my support to it if I am convinced that the project truly turns out to be a "non-profit organisation", as you claim.

Couple questions if I may:

1. That point you make early about bad apples...will there be some kind of committee who decides what bad apples are to be 'tolerated' (still good for apple pie, etc) and also decides which bad apples are to be universally discarded by members?

2. If so, who will form this committee - and how could online casino affiliates making a living out of the industry be expected to be objective in this regard? Will the proof simply be in the pudding? Wait and see whether there is true objectivity in the decision making process?

3. Also, every union I've ever heard of has elections every year or so. Do you plan to hold such elections? If not, what would be your reasons for not wanting to consider that model?

 

chalkie

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Location
UK
I'm interested in your idea and will likely lend my support to it if I am convinced that the project truly turns out to be a "non-profit organisation", as you claim.

Couple questions if I may:

1. That point you make early about bad apples...will there be some kind of committee who decides what bad apples are to be 'tolerated' (still good for apple pie, etc) and also decides which bad apples are to be universally discarded by members?

2. If so, who will form this committee - and how could online casino affiliates making a living out of the industry be expected to be objective in this regard? Will the proof simply be in the pudding? Wait and see whether there is true objectivity in the decision making process?

3. Also, every union I've ever heard of has elections every year or so. Do you plan to hold such elections? If not, what would be your reasons for not wanting to consider that model?

Thanks for your pledged possible support and for posing some good questions.

I can only answer briefly as the foundations are not completely set as yet.

We have every intention of never changing our stance on taking funding from programs. To change this would involve breaching the whole make up of the AU and we will never do this!

There may be times when members (only affiliates and not programs will ever be allowed to be members) are asked to contribute to maybe a fighting fund or for other similiar reasons and even then, we will most likely do so in a way that the AU is never allowed to handle the finances. for example if a court case was needed, then we may ask for donations of the figure required to be made direct to the legal team. This is all conjecture, however, an insight in to the ways that we are looking at.

Basically, no one person or even the AU as a whole will expect any type of compensation for time spent doing any type of AU business.

In vague response to your questions, it is intended to allow the membership an equal vote on all issues, therefore, the white, grey and black lists will be drawn up by the members and not the founders. There may well be a committee and if there is then this will no doubt be subject to a periodic vote.

I am sorry that i cannot set you answers out in stone, however, as you can appreciate, we are still setting the foundations and are unable to give precise answers to most questions.

What i will say is that we are aiming to be completely transparent, open to all input from affiliates and only interested in fighting evil, for this we will require no compensation.

I hope that helps a little and would like to stress that we are not intentionally being vague, however, are unable to answer some questions as we have not agreed the answers as yet.
 

RobWin

closed account
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Location
A Vault!
I would like to chip in now and allow you all the knowledge that i am 1 of the founders, none of us have a reason to hide our involvement as we will all be there on display when the doors are open.

I for one hope that it does not fragment the industry any further and can categorically state that we are not looking to replace CAP or sneak in to the void left since its demise.

Look guys, not taking direct sponsorship for the organisation is completely different to whatever any affiliate does in their own business.

OK, playing with the devil will not be a good idea for any founder, however, in todays climate, if any affiliate was to omitt every program that had some sort of issue in lets say the previous 12 months, then we would all be carrying very few banners etc.

Small affiliate, large affiliate, super affiliate, we are all affiliates and suffer to some degree with bad apples.

The AU will not be asking for people to drop out of supporting here, the GPWA, APCW or anywhere else, especially as all these organisations have much to offer to the affiliate community.

The AU will maybe work with all the other organisations at times and autonomously at other times.

To succeed the AU will need the support of the affiliate community and will need to come up with methods not so far employed by any organisation yet! The AU will need to show results, and i can assure you that all founders are 100% committed to trying to create a much more level playing field for all.

What i will say is that every single 1 of the founders is so because they want to help sort out some if not all of the problems we all see on a daily basis.

In my mind, the more people fighting the issues the better and if 1 organisation comes up with a system of winning the war against the crooks then that can only be good.

Do i ask for support? NO

Do i want support? YES

Will we succeed without support? NO

Will we succeed with support? MAYBE

So what have we to lose offering support to the AU?

We the founders of the AU are not intending on using the AU as a tool for gaining any type of rewards for ourself, however, we will as individual business people continue to earn a living out of the industry by other means!

open to all input from affiliates and only interested in fighting evil
Welcome to Casinomeister Chalkie...:thumbsup:

I've just got two simple and quick questions for you here, if I may:

1. What is the AU's stance or policy on it's members, founders, etc. etc. promoting Known Rogue Casinos?

I'm not talking about a few casinos that have had a shaky or shady past over the last say 12 months or even two years but those Known Rogue Casinos that have fu*ked and screwed peeps over for the last decade. The likes of the notorious "Virtual Group" or the "Crystal Palace Group" !!

2. How will the ethical affiliates mix with the not so ethical ones?

Tuff questions I know, but they should also be two simple and easy questions that I for one would certainly hope that have been brought up for discussion amongst yourselves in laying the foundation of this new organization on granite and not clay.
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jas2587

Ueber Meister
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Location
FL
I believe the founder members are listed on the public thread in the GPWA. Those that I know of are:

Aussie Dave ( Trezz )
Gamtrak
Greek39
Mojo
Doesnt Gametrac promote Rogue Casinos on her site as of right now?


Cindy:rolleyes:
 

mojo

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Location
East Coast
Welcome to Casinomeister Chalkie...:thumbsup:

I've just got two simple and quick questions for you here, if I may:

1. What is the AU's stance or policy on it's members, founders, etc. etc. promoting Known Rogue Casinos?

I'm not talking about a few casinos that have had a shaky or shady past over the last say 12 months or even two years but those Known Rogue Casinos that have fu*ked and screwed peeps over for the last decade. The likes of the notorious "Virtual Group" or the "Crystal Palace Group" !!

2. How will the ethical affiliates mix with the not so ethical ones?

Tuff questions I know, but they should also be two simple and easy questions that I for one would certainly hope that have been brought up for discussion amongst yourselves in laying the foundation of this new organization on granite and not clay.
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____
Good questions and the first one not tough at all.

1. Founding members will not promote Virtual/GW casinos or any other well established rogue casinos. Period. We did discuss this and it is firm.

2. Is actually a little tougher. I'm sure you know that affiliates cannot be told who they can/can't promote. It only alienates everyone. That is not the purpose of the AU. We do hope however that we can strive for influence in this area.

#2 we need more discussion on Rob to be honest. For example, rogue affiliates, spammers etc. We are still working hard on a lot of things.
 

bb28

Meister Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Location
US
Good questions and the first one not tough at all.

1. Founding members will not promote Virtual/GW casinos or any other well established rogue casinos. Period. We did discuss this and it is firm.

2. Is actually a little tougher. I'm sure you know that affiliates cannot be told who they can/can't promote. It only alienates everyone. That is not the purpose of the AU. We do hope however that we can strive for influence in this area.

#2 we need more discussion on Rob to be honest. For example, rogue affiliates, spammers etc. We are still working hard on a lot of things.
In that case GamTrak needs to check her homepage. ;) Today's view lists Cirrus and Cool Cat on the front page.
 
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jod5413

Is That Better?
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Location
somewhere on the planet
If I was an ethical affiliate, only promoting good, trustworthy casinos, I wouldn't have anything to do with this new "program".

As a player, I have some knowledge of the founders, and it isn't very impressive, IMO.

You simply can not expect affiliates and others to believe your "mission statement" when some of the founders do, in fact, promote rogue casinos and programs, or have "other" problems.

So, as usual, it's all about the dollar.
 

JHV

<a href="http://www.casinomeister.com/meister_awar
Joined
Jun 2, 2005
Location
Perennial Traveler
In that case GamTrak needs to check her homepage. ;) Today's view lists Cirrus and Cool Cat on the front page.
Oh I'm sorry if this comes out too strong, but I will have NO PART of any organisation at ANY point which has an affiliate like this even as a member, let alone in some kind of influential or founding position / status.

Actually, I'm not sorry. Any organisation that has an affiliate like this as a member will be, for want of a better term, a 'target' for me to criticise (FAIRLY) and expose. If there are ethical affiliates in that founding group (as I firmly want to believe), I apologise if they are your personal friend or something, but I cannot see how your organisation can claim any kind of moral high ground with members of this ilk.

Cirrus Casino? I'm in such shock I'm not even able to objectively read my words to see if they are offensive. I'm trying not to be offensive.

But Cirrus were one of the most ROGUE casinos in the world FIVE years ago (and I hear are just as ROGUE now). They still owe me thousands from 5 yrs ago in PURE theft.

That someone is promoting them now whilst talking about (or in some way involved in) setting up an organisation which claims to "fight evil"....literally has me staring at the screen in shock.

I'm flabbergasted right now. I don't know this person, I have no 'agenda' against him or her, but I will not be a part of any organisation that allows them to be a member at any point (even if they dropped all their Rogue casinos before joining).
 

mrracetrack

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 14, 2001
Location
North of Pluto
The new Affiliate Union is being "closed" before it opens... :eek:

Seems the "founders" weren't aware of Gamtraks involvement with Virtual/Gambling Wages... :rolleyes:

You did the right thing, Dave... :thumbsup:


Posted on the GPWA by Dave:

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JHV

<a href="http://www.casinomeister.com/meister_awar
Joined
Jun 2, 2005
Location
Perennial Traveler
Wow. I just read the last page - in the past, I would have found that delightfully delicious drama. Am more 'sad' now though.

What a mess. I'm not even *close* to qualified enough to comment on any part of it (so out of my depth here it feels almost redundant to post) except to say it very much seems like you did the right thing, Dave! :eek:

AussieDave said:
The AU was something that could have worked.

However the stink in this industry is partners with corruptions, conflicts of interest and cliques who want a monopoly over not only gambling affiliates but the industry on a whole.
dammit. Is it a hopeless war this one that I've just started spectating from the sidelines?

....and I thought the online poker rakeback industry was a chaotic mess! What a world! I feel...inadequate and ill-equipped.
 

mojo

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Location
East Coast
Am more 'sad' now though.
Ditto. I was pretty passionate about it and still am. It was a bad start that just got worse and finally unfixable. Dave did a great job handling things the way he felt was right. However, I do have my own independant feelings on some things.

Maybe it'll go better next time. :)
 

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