Affiliate income - megabucks or not?

[thelawnet]

The affiliate business is clearly an appealing one for many people, including many current and ex-players on here - compared with other online revenue opportunities, such as banner ads at 1 cent for 10, getting paid $200 for getting a player to sign up at a casino looks a much better choice.

Of course the reality might not live up to the appealing numbers, and reality is what we have to live with.

So can anyone share their experiences as an affiliate?

How easy is it to make something worthwhile (say $1000/month), an income (say $10,000/month), or a small fortune (say $100,000/month)?

I could come up with some numbers on the users you'd need to get this, but actual experiences would be more interesting.

 

[Webzcas]

I registered my first site which is still my main site on the 18th August 2004 whilst I was still working for Ladbrokes in Gibraltar. I had been working for Ladbrokes for four years at the time, having joined them a couple of weeks before they launched Ladbrokes Casino in October 2000.

My former manager at Ladbrokes who is one of my best friends who incidentally employed me in my previous job in the UK prior to Ladbrokes, convinced me to try my hand at becoming an affiliate. He left Ladbrokes in 2002 to setup 32Red with Ed and a few others. Ed was also my Managing Director when I started work at Ladbrokes.

I had at the time and still do a political forum which I started back in 2003. By August 2004 it was getting some great results in google and Graham convinced me that I should try and achieve the same in the casino industry, particulary as I had at that time 4 years experience working on the other side for an operator.

When I launched Online Casino Reviewer, I bought an off the shelf template and only promoted a few affiliate programs. This was also compounded by the fact that everyone in the industry knows everyone in Gibraltar, so I had to be careful not to promote properties managed and run by companies located in the same office building as Ladbrokes, due to conflict of interest in my role with them.

I spent pretty much all my spare time for the next nine months working on Online Casino Reviewer. From starting out as a very basic and not very pretty looking site it slowly started to take shape. But traffic was low, partly thanks to the google sandbox applied to new sites and revenue was non existant during this period.

Then in June 2005 Online Casino Reviewer started to achieve some good serps in google and I earnt my first paycheck as an affiliate. It was at this point that I realised now I was earning money albeit much smaller than my salary with Ladbrokes, I had a tough decision to make.

Do I continue working with Ladbrokes in a secure position in a secure environment or do I take the gamble and strike out as a fully fledged affiliate. So as you can guess I handed my notice in, which due to my contract and position was three months.

By the time I left at the end of August 2005, Online Casino Reviewer had reached it's first birthday and I made around 1000 that month. Quite a drop from what I was used to getting paid from my employment with Ladbrokes. But the fact my website was starting to earn money was all the incentive I needed to continue working on it, to achieve better results.

Fast forward four years and I am still doing the job I love. Being a successful affiliate whereby you do not require an additional paid revenue source takes a lot of hard work. But if you enjoy the industry then you will enjoy putting the time and effort in.

The UIGEA has affected us as it has all affiliates and obviously we are currently in the middle of a global economic crisis. But we get by to the extent that when we moved back to the UK from Gibraltar, my wife stopped work. Well she does, she works for our company. But like me she is now also self employed.

We are by no means Big Affiliates, but our revenue has consistently been higher than what our former salaries combined were when we were working for someone else.

By planning long term and running your site from a players perspective is the best way IMO to be successful as an affiliate. That is why I still to this day only promote a few select casinos, whereby I am happy to play at.

 

[dominique]

The vast majority of affiliates are in and out of the business within 6 months and have nothing to show for it. That's the reality. When you look at the number of affiliate sites produced by a google search, it's in the millions. Only the ones on the first 10 pages or so make any money.

The ones you see here regularly have been working at it for years and built something up for themselves. They are usually also players and understand what people are looking for.

If you have no experience playing yourself, the learning curve is quite large.

Then you have to deal with the search engines and with making a site that is both good for visitors and good for search engine bots.

It took me about a year to see any income, and all of that went back into growing the site.

In the course of 8 years I have built a site with some 8000 pages and support several families. Some months are better than others, some months I don't make any profit at all ( paying those who contribute always comes first) and others I do well. It's a gamble.

Also, affiliate programs don't always keep their contracts and I have incurred some major losses because I didn't get paid what I was owed. If I don't get paid, I still owe my staff all the same.

Being an affiliate is not much different from gambling yourself - and it's a lot of hard work and not as much fun. But you are dealing with the same gambling outfits, need to avoid rogues the same way and depend on luck as well.

If you work hard, grow a site that has value for players, stay on top of current events in both the player world and in the affiliate world as well as the search engine world, you can grow a profitable business.

It's not easy money, but it can be good money if you are willing to apply yourself. Just like anything else, really...

 

[lots0]

The business has grown much much more difficult to make any real money after UGIEA. I can safely say that the UGIEA has cost me well over 70% of my total gambling aff income.

Most new affs currently make far less than $500 a month and that is after a year or so of development during which they make very little or no money at all.

<added>
If you want to be an aff... there are venues in search marketing other than gambling that currently make me far far more money than gambling does.

 

[love2winalot]

Hiya: Here is the perspective from someone who had no idea what they were doing. It was many years ago, with Captain Cooks Casino. Here is the sequence of events for me, and the results.

1. I played about 5-6 times a week at the Casino, and took bonus money several times, and other times did not.

2. After several months of playing, and understanding their bonus terms, and how to deposit into, and get the money out of the Casino, i signed up as an affiliate. The Casino had no chargebacks, and paid %30.

3. I made a free web site using Tripod. I pasted my affiliate link on the site, and joined a few gambling message boards.

4. I made flyers up, directing people to the Tripod site, and to click on the Captain Cooks link. I put these flyers on windsheilds of cars at a bunch of local casino's here in vegas.

5. I promoted playing Roulette, and Sic Bo on my web site.

I ended up having a few players sign up, and was making between $100-$300 a month. This was as far as i got. I still have no idea how search engines actually work, and outside of spamming how to reach a larger portion of players. I will try it again in a few months when i move to the Philippines, so the more information you experts post, the more the rest of us will like it.......

 

[mojo]

I started out as a player. I met other players and then some webmasters. Started figuring out how things work. I remember looking for online casinos that were based in the usa. I didn't know there weren't any.

With the help of another webmaster, who is now my fiance, I got my first site up in 2005. But I really didn't have time for it with a job and kids. It wasn't until the last couple years that I really put any time in it. I quit my boring office job a little over a year ago now. It was the scariest thing because you really don't know whats going to happen in this biz. I am not a big affiliate by any means but I am ok and holding my own and very happy I took the risk. I really like that I am working for me and the success depends on only me.

It's a ton of work and definately not a get rich quick scheme. You have to commit and put in the time to keep up with the competition on a daily basis. Otherwise you will be left behind pretty quickly. I think this is where many fail, it's a commitment. It helps if you enjoy it. I do, this biz is constantly changing and evolving.

It can be done. If I can do it, anyone can. I didn't know a thing about html let alone running a website. Some of it is very tedious, like anything I suppose. It's pretty much self taught by reading, reading and more reading.

 

[JHV]

When I read thelawnet's OP, I thought to myself "oh god, there's going to be a string of replies from people talking about how hard it is and how little they make" etc. I was pleasantly surprised to read the responses thus far, which are very balanced and quite accurate.

The answer to the question is a bit like when people (who don't play poker) ask me "How much money can you make playing poker?"

I mean, that a tough question to answer. The correct answer is probably something like:

"Between negative 10 million to positive 10 million per year." (is what you can make - it depends on how skilled / lucky you are)

But in reality, 90-95% of online poker players are losers lifetime. If a friend was asking me if I'd recommend it as a career, I would scream "HELL NO!" (for about 117 reasons that spring to mind, and probably another 500 reasons that don't)

It would be the same for the affiliate industry. The vast majority of affiliates make next to nothing. If you don't really know what you're doing, it's a very steep learning curve. There are literally millions of affiliates all competing with you. The top SERPs (i.e. any that are going to bring you nice search engine traffic) are all owned by people who spend millions on linkbuys or who use Black Hat - or...are held by websites like this one that have been established for years and have thousands or tens of thousands of incoming links and tens of thousands of pages of content. But if you are starting from scratch, you won't be able to "work" your way into high ranking online gambling keyword SERPs for a very long time unless you SPEND or BLACK HAT. (at least, this is what the smartest SEO guys I've met have effectively said re: the current algorithms)

$200 CPA is a bit lol. I honestly don't know what is 'taboo' to discuss regarding this industry as I've never really been interested in the affiliate forums - they're depressing more often than not, from what I've seen (if you're wondering what I mean by 'depressing', I refer you to the locked thread regarding the Affiliate Union). And I'm not bagging affiliates (I'm a poker affiliate myself, although rakeback is a kind of different thing altogether and not comparable with what this thread is discussing) - it's just that the industry attracts a lot of "bad apples", and people start out with good intentions more often than not, and I know a lot get disillusioned along the way or get corrupted by the $.

But anyway, screw it if it's taboo...I know some affiliates who are getting $400 CPA or even higher, in some cases. I guess it comes down to your connections and networks, but Rev Share %'s can go as high as 60% or even higher for short term promos etc.

But whilst the numbers above might make someone think "OMG!" - the truth is really what dominique said, it can be great money if you really apply yourself or if you have the right connections or some original ideas (like providing a niche service or other marketing opportunities).

--------

I set up my rakeback site for poker with absolutely no intention of building it into a big money-spinner. I was already reasonably wealthy from poker, but I was burned out and the thought of opening my poker clients to play made me nauseous. So for a couple months, I was posting on a lot of poker forums and not playing - and I was just getting more and more tilted reading about unprofessional, unethical, (in some cases, just pure thieving) rakeback affiliates - and when friends of mine started to tell me stories of how much they'd had stolen from them (added to my own experiences which involved large amounts stolen), I decided I'd had enough and set up my site paying out players in advance daily for their protection, full transparency in all aspects of data reporting, etc.

I really only set it up to protect my friends and because I had nothing better to do at the time - I had 0 intention of even bothering with SEO as I knew one of the world's biggest rakeback providers was spending a fortune trying to compete for SERPs and getting owned for a variety of reasons. I had no marketing avenues apart from word-of-mouth. Within a year, my players were doing 2-3million MGR annually (obv rakeback affiliates work on very small margins).

But then the hits started coming. In Feb, a site defaulted on $150,000 payment owed (I'd paid almost all that out to players in advance, obv). Other smaller sites went bankrupt or otherwise defaulted. The internal systems of some major online poker affiliate departments are....just shockingly bad. Admin is an endless nightmare chasing up late payments, chasing up player complaints regarding data given to us by the poker rooms, a lot of interacting with jokers who I wouldn't hire for a CS low-level position (but they're the head of the affiliate department for an online poker room). I could write books about the insanity, but I'll settle for saying absolutely nothing surprises me about this industry anymore.

Baron Acton said "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely."

This is so true for $ as well. Every successful online poker player I know, and every successful online affiliate I know - if they were being honest, would admit it's just a world of madness. Friends who've been close for 10 years want to kill each other now. I'm owed a 6 figure amount by friends I would have considered to be ethical beyond reproach prior.

Yes, you can make huge amounts of money in this industry. But you can lose your mind and your faith in humanity also - when you inevitably combat the endless scams (often by close friends or people you mistakenly thought were close friends) or be corrupted yourself and end up miserable in the process.

It's just all very...disillusioning.

 

[WagerWitch]

I have made 3,000.00 in one month - and nothing for 8 months straight.

It truly depends on the contracts you have - and the casinos you operate with.

Personally I'm not sure it's worth the work - and my affiliate business took a major hit when I got sick...

I haven't seen any increase lately - regardless of the time I put into it - so I kind of weaned myself away from it - to step back - take a look and see if there is anything else that I can do to improve it.

Currently I am not employed - and while I never expected affiliate work to pay the bills - it would be nice if there was something there. LOL!

But right now I have 4.00 in one place - 36.00 in another - and no one - regardless of my traffic and placement in Google (Top 10 for quite a few decent keywords) has actually deposited lately.

The trend seems to be to locate FREEBIES only - and not pursuing the Repeat and Bonus Deposit deals.

Either that or the casinos who I'm affiliated with are not telling the truth - because I can tell how many people are clicking on links daily - and have statistics daily to prove it.

Anywho - unless the agencies I have are lying - then the current trend is NON-DEPOSITing Players and downloaders.

I dunno - it is a hit and miss operation I think.

I could probably be doing more - and would certainly not mind hearing some suggestions that ALL affiliates could use - BESIDES GOOGLE placement - cause that does NOT always work.

 

[KasinoKing]

Well for my experience just go back up & re-read the posts from Webzcas, Dominique (though I started after them and my "business" is much smaller) and in particular Mojo - I could have written her post myself!
(Except the bit about having a fianc & kids )

This bit is absolutely spot on:-

It's a ton of work and definitely not a get rich quick scheme. You have to commit and put in the time to keep up with the competition on a daily basis. Otherwise you will be left behind pretty quickly. I think this is where many fail, it's a commitment. It helps if you enjoy it. I do, this biz is constantly changing and evolving.

It can be done. If I can do it, anyone can. I didn't know a thing about html let alone running a website. Some of it is very tedious, like anything I suppose. It's pretty much self taught by reading, reading and more reading.

{Edited to add}
Sorry, I forgot to say MASSIVE kudos to Webzcas :notworthy who invited me to my first affiliate conference back in 2007, and introduced me to Bryan, Simmo, and many other familiar names around this forum.
And a similarly HUGE kudos to Simmo! :notworthy who encouraged and inspired me to carry on with my website after a fairly slow start.
Without these two guys I probably wouldn't be where I am today.

Either that or the casinos who I'm affiliated with are not telling the truth - because I can tell how many people are clicking on links daily - and have statistics daily to prove it.

This is one thing I think many players (and maybe some affiliates) don't consider; there is absolutely no way to tell if a casino is ripping you off by stealing your players. You have to trust them 100%.
e.g.
About 6-months back I was very excited about a new casino and created a special website just to promote that one brand. They had a very generous sign-up bonus and well-known B&M games which no other online casinos had!
But their affiliate system does not record impressions or clicks...
Now in 6 weeks I know for a fact my website had well over 50,000 visits, yet according to the casino I did not get even one player registration...
Several days work & lots of 's spent for nothing.
That leaves a bad taste in your mouth I can tell you!

Another case;
I had 2 or 3 regular players at an MG casino. There was activity and/or income nearly every month from Nov 2006. I guess I could say at least one of them was a high-roller because this casino produced my single biggest source of income 4-months straight, from Oct'08 to Jan'09. Then BAM! Nothing. Not a peep.
OK this player could have quit and moved on, or the casino could have got greedy and just severed my affiliate income from him. There is no way I can EVER find out what happened.

So players, please remember that affiliates have to trust casinos just as much as you do!
(In fact, more so. If you deposit & they steal your money you would know you've been ripped off. Affiliates do not know when they get ripped-off).

KK

 

[WagerWitch]

Another case;
I had 2 or 3 regular players at an MG casino. There was activity and/or income nearly every month from Nov 2006. I guess I could say at least one of them was a high-roller because this casino produced my single biggest source of income 4-months straight, from Oct'08 to Jan'09. Then BAM! Nothing. Not a peep.
OK this player could have quit and moved on, or the casino could have got greedy and just severed my affiliate income from him. There is no way I can EVER find out what happened.

So players, please remember that affiliates have to trust casinos just as much as you do!
(In fact, more so. If you deposit & they steal your money you would know you've been ripped off. Affiliates do not know when they get ripped-off).

KK

Correct - that is WHERE my problem lies.

I had a decent player for 2 months. Which then stopped.

Yet this player still goes to my website... However - no signs of any playing (edited to add FROM THE CASINO SIDE.

I don't know how ETHICAL it is to ask a player if they are still playing at a casino - but I WOULD LOVE TO...

I mean - WHO is watching the casino affiliate sites - and how do we TRUST them when things like this happen?

I mean - I'm serious - I went from 3000.00 one month to ZERO the next with 5 players. I just cannot believe ALL five chose to quit depositing at the same time.

But that is what the reports said.

So - although this wasn't the trend of the discussion - I'm not sure how to combat this issue.

And it isn't something I've seen discussed anywhere openly before...

I'm not willing to name names - not yet any way - but I'd like to know if OTHER affiliates have noticed a trend like this recently?

 

[TOC]

Wrong place for this thread..

 

[WagerWitch]

Wrong place for this thread..

Possibly - but it is a point to consider if you are an affiliate - or if you are thinking about becoming an affiliate.

It is indeed a money issue - and whether or not you are actually earning the money you should be.

In other words:

Let's say I think I should be making "XX" amount
But casino says I only made "XX" amount

yanno?

 

[lots0]

There are ways to tell if a casino has ripped you off as an affiliate.

For one... have some one you know make a small deposit through your aff links... If the deposit don't show up, you know your getting screwed.

I've caught several well known casinos cheating this way.

<added> after more than a decade in this business.. I start out with the idea that any casino I don't already know are a bunch crooks... they have to prove to me that they are not before I'll do business with them.

Sometimes they still fool me though... cough.. rome.. cough..

 

[WagerWitch]

There are ways to tell if a casino has ripped you off as an affiliate.

For one... have some one you know make a small deposit through your aff links... If the deposit don't show up, you know your getting screwed.

I've caught several well known casinos cheating this way.

<added> after 14 years in this business.. I start out with the idea that any casino I don't already know are a bunch crooks... they have to prove to me that they are not before I'll do business with them.

Well ANYONE is welcome to PLEASE deposit through my links...



No - seriously - If anyone wants to test it out - I'll take it - but other than you guys online in the small groups (here and GG) - I don't know very many people who gamble online to go out and ask...

I did just post a post that asked my players to comment if they use the promos - but all in all - most of my players don't hang around to come back and comment...

But lotso - if you ever want to share which groups (look at my site - and the last 2 months of posts) I have and let me know if any of those were on your list - PLEASE let me know... IF you're in the mood to do that. Otherwise - no worries.

I'm still a major newbie getting my feet wet in the affiliate stuff. Been in a long time - just figuring it out. LOL!

 

[lots0]

Actually, I ask one of my monkeys to register and deposit $100.00 (from a unique IP) and I provide the cash.

I usually do 100 and then only play 20 because that way you can play a few games, get a feel for the casino and get a really good idea about their CS, deposit, withdrawal and time frames.

But beware, some casinos don't like this kind of thing very much... for obvious reasons.

<added> Reading two months worth of forum posts sounds like work...
I'll take a look when I get time, but it might be a while.

 

[zebedy]

There was a poll over at AGD about how much affiliates make a month, id sure like to know the secret to making $150.000 a month,

$0 - $500 - 4
$500 - $1000 - 3
$1000 - $5000 - 6
$5000 - $10,000 - 7
$10,000 - $20,000 - 4
$20,000 - $50,000 - 4
$50,000 - $75,000 - 2
$75,000 - $100,000 - 0
$100,000 - $150,000- 0
$150,000+ - 1

 

[WagerWitch]

There was a poll over at AGD about how much affiliates make a month, id sure like to know the secret to making $150.000 a month,

WOW - no kidding. Please... Share info.. LOL!

Lotso - only if you feel like glancing at them - I'm set up as a blog - and each post has a "promo" or something interesting in it - You can pretty much skim it to get an idea of what I have...

It would be pretty easy. LOL!

But - I can see what advantage that would have and why the casinos would NOT like that.

DO WE HAVE ANY CASINO AFFILIATE REPS here on CM?

 

[lots0]

I'd like to make one other point about becoming a gambling affiliate.

Casino Affs are fast becoming a thing of the past.

When the UGIEA goes away.. the big boys will come back and when online gambling is legal in the US they won't NEED affiliates anymore.

888 and Harrahs have already teamed up and are waiting for the UGIEA to be over turned.. they are both anti affiliate in a big way and looking to control online gaming inside the US.

The way I see it, when online gambling becomes totally and completely legal in the US it will be the end of casino affiliates, at least as we know them.

 

[4 of a kind]

I found this thread very interesting, and not surprised to find it somewhat depressing. I would guess like any other business some people end up fairing pretty well while most fall to the way side.

But after taking into consideration what actually takes place with online casinos and poker rooms, why would anyone seriously consider getting involved investing their time and money with such a group of proven crooks?

Of course just like accredited casinos that pay their winners, more then likely their are accredited ones that also pay their affiliates. Yet, based on what I could tell, maybe 5% are straight up with 95% bad in one way or another. You also run the risk of being involved with a good place to play today, but rogue tomorrow.

When you consider all the legitimate problems and bullshit we read about day in and day out about online casinos and poker rooms, why should it be any different for affiliates.

I couldn't even imagine my income being based on trusting an online casino being forthcoming about who signed on and deposited thanks to me. I'd feel safer getting a shopping cart and walking around picking up deposit bottles.

Based on the posts I read up to this point on this subject, it sounds like you might have a better chance investing your time and money actually playing at one of the accredited casinos, and hope you get a cash out.

I'm certain a small percentage of people might fair okay with this program today but tomorrow sure looks scary. It seems to be safe to say that your hard work and what appears to be long hours invested, might be better spent on another idea.

 

[Webzcas]

Based on the posts I read up to this point on this subject, it sounds like you might have a better chance investing your time and money actually playing at one of the accredited casinos, and hope you get a cash out.

I'm certain a small percentage of people might fair okay with this program, but it also appears that your hard work and what appears to be long hours invested, might be better spent on another idea.

Many affiliates are players and started off as players. It was their enthusiasm playing that made them decide to become affiliates in the first place.

You can make a living from being an affiliate in this industry and a pretty good one too for that matter. It is certainly not as lucrative as it was in the past, but the opportunities are there and will be even more so once the UIGEA becomes a thing of the past.

 

[4 of a kind]

The way I see it, when online gambling becomes totally and completely legal in the US it will be the end of casino affiliates, at least as we know them.

It is certainly not as lucrative as it was in the past, but the opportunities are there and will be even more so once the UIGEA becomes a thing of the past.

I see these opinions also differ. I'm sure there are a few people doing well at this point with the program, and certainly would never condemn anyone trying to work hard and honest for a buck. It just seems to be a risky place to work.

P.S. Can anyone tell me how to take quotes from two or more posts and reply to them in one post????

 

[zebedy]

I found this thread very interesting, and not surprised to find it somewhat depressing. I would guess like any other business some people end up fairing pretty well while most fall to the way side.

But after taking into consideration what actually takes place with online casinos and poker rooms, why would anyone seriously consider getting involved investing their time and money with such a group of proven crooks?

Of course just like accredited casinos that pay their winners, more then likely their are accredited ones that also pay their affiliates. Yet, based on what I could tell, maybe 5% are straight up with 95% bad in one way or another. You also run the risk of being involved with a good place to play today, but rogue tomorrow.

When you consider all the legitimate problems and bullshit we read about day in and day out about online casinos and poker rooms, why should it be any different for affiliates.

I couldn't even imagine my income being based on trusting an online casino being forthcoming about who signed on and deposited thanks to me. I'd feel safer getting a shopping cart and walking around picking up deposit bottles.

Based on the posts I read up to this point on this subject, it sounds like you might have a better chance investing your time and money actually playing at one of the accredited casinos, and hope you get a cash out.

I'm certain a small percentage of people might fair okay with this program today but tomorrow sure looks scary. It seems to be safe to say that your hard work and what appears to be long hours invested, might be better spent on another idea.

I asked a similar question asked over a gawp(not a typo ) some time back

heres the link if anyones interested

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[JHV]

I don't know how ETHICAL it is to ask a player if they are still playing at a casino - but I WOULD LOVE TO...

I mean - WHO is watching the casino affiliate sites - and how do we TRUST them when things like this happen?

I'm not willing to name names - not yet any way - but I'd like to know if OTHER affiliates have noticed a trend like this recently?

Perhaps you could frame the question to the player in such a way that he might give you hints whether he's still playing there? Maybe frame it like a Customer Satisfaction survey of some kind? I know it's hard to believe, but some people actually love responding to surveys - and do it all day for token chump change (they're mostly just doing it cause they enjoy it). I'd rather take a cheese-grater to a vital part of my anatomy myself than fill out surveys all day, but some people really love giving feedback.

For one... have some one you know make a small deposit through your aff links... If the deposit don't show up, you know your getting screwed.

I've caught several well known casinos cheating this way.

<added> after more than a decade in this business.. I start out with the idea that any casino I don't already know are a bunch crooks... they have to prove to me that they are not before I'll do business with them.

Sometimes they still fool me though... cough.. rome.. cough..

Yep, this is a great test and one I do on any poker site I'm considering listing - it's also important to know how long CS take to respond, how fast does the signup show, is revenue tracked cleanly, and many more benefits. I have friends to help me with this - holla at me WagerWitch if you desperately need a test done before investing a whole bunch of time in a special page or promotion - I don't mind depositing and testing for you on occasion.

Of course, it doesn't help with your problem where the casino (imo) almost certainly just took the player off your affiliate tracking so they can keep his rev share. And I'm SURE it happens OFTEN with many casinos and is far more widespread a practice than many realise - just my gut feeling. I mean, it's just so easy for them to do and so incredibly hard for them to get caught as most of the time the affiliate and the player won't even be connected. Then if busted, they'd just claim some technical error, etc.

There was a poll over at AGD about how much affiliates make a month, id sure like to know the secret to making $150.000 a month,

I can't give you the answer to that. But if you type in "online casino" into Google, I bet the holders of these positions could tell you: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.....HOLY CRAP! WagerWitch! I've been to your site before, would that explain why you're showing on my Google "online casino" front page? What the....!?

Is WagerWitch front page for anyone who hasn't been to her site when you type in "online casino" into Google?

P.S. Can anyone tell me how to take quotes from two or more posts and reply to them in one post????

I have recently learned this mystical secret from Max and I shall share it with you. Press MultiQuote button for each post you want to quote, each MultiQuote button pressed will highlight Red (as least they do on my Firefox) and then press Post Reply.

 

[thelawnet]

I can't give you the answer to that. But if you type in "online casino" into Google, I bet the holders of these positions could tell you: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.....HOLY CRAP! WagerWitch! I've been to your site before, would that explain why you're showing on my Google "online casino" front page? What the....!?

I tried this in a fresh browser, and yep, she's there. Albeit not a search result but a blog post, after all of the search results.There aren't that many non-spammy casino blogs I guess.

 

[JHV]

I tried this in a fresh browser, and yep, she's there. Albeit not a search result but a blog post, after all of the search results.There aren't that many non-spammy casino blogs I guess.

Wow.

WagerWitch, you should be wealthy I think.

I realise it's a blog post, not a SERP, but it's front page on Google for freaking "online casino". I mean, I'm no expert, but this HAS to be worth SERIOUS $ surely!?!

 

[KasinoKing]

P.S. Can anyone tell me how to take quotes from two or more posts and reply to them in one post????

Yep!
Say you want to quote 3 posts; on the first two hit "MultiQuote" and on the last one just "Quote"

The only reason your second quote didn't come out right is because you must have deleted the / before the ending Quote -

Wow.

WagerWitch, you should be wealthy I think.

I realise it's a blog post, not a SERP, but it's front page on Google for freaking "online casino". I mean, I'm no expert, but this HAS to be worth SERIOUS $ surely!?!

Front page of Google means nothing if no-one is searching for what you have!
Shown below - result #1 from 22,400
I ain't no millionaire!

 

[Webzcas]

I realise it's a blog post, not a SERP, but it's front page on Google for freaking "online casino". I mean, I'm no expert, but this HAS to be worth SERIOUS $ surely!?!

I doubt it gets as much traffic as you would think. Especially as it is listed as a footnote blog link at the bottom. It is nevertheless a good achievement.

Up until recently when google had a minor earthquake of their serps, I ranked #5 for online casinos in google.co.uk. You would think that would bring in truck loads of traffic.

Whilst the traffic was nice, it was nowhere near as good as I would have expected.

Now adwords has opened up for gambling terms, it means it dilutes the clickthrus even further. 70% of all searches do not go past the number one ranked site. With the following 20% of searches sharing their clicks between 2nd and 3rd spot. The remaining 10% is then spread out. Reducing the further down the page you go.

 

[WagerWitch]

I've been telling you guys - I'm naturally good with SEO...

And I've worked really hard at it - AND --- AND --- People I know have helped me all along the way - teaching me things - helping me out... I've known some fabulous peeps who are amazing at what they do and what they know.

But it doesn't matter - I'm NOT drawing NEW players in no matter HOW top rate I am in the search engines.

And it's not just Google for top keywords...

I'm even a lowly PR2 site.

But - nevertheless - I KNOW what is going out to the casinos - HENCE my question: WHY AM I SEEING ZERO DOLLAR RETURN THE LAST COUPLE OF MONTHS?

ZERO FOLKS... NADA - NIP - ZERO.

Yanno?


I'm working from a freebie Blog site - and not paying anything but time... And while time is money - it's still free for me.

Like I've said - I HAVE MADE SOME money...

But lately NOTHING.

So my past questions are valid... Yanno?

ANyhow - thanks JHV for noticing about the Ranking - You ought to try BODOG NO DEPOSIT (yes, I know that Bodog doesn't have no deposit bonuses most of the time... in fact - I don't think I've seen one... LOL) But your newbie casino player does not know that... And I didn't mean to get there - but somehow my posts on Bodog - combined with No deposit posts created a top position (on most days) for that...

Anyhow - I don't really promote them as much and they are PAST posts - but because GOOGLE slurps EVERYthing and EVERY page.... well - they show up on my site because of past posts.

And - lately the casinos have taken to writing a MILLION singular BLOGS (not singular posts - but creating blogs) to up their linkage - BLACKHAT SEO tactic... And Google has taken note... So lately - my blog jumped ahead because it's a legitimate blog on the topics.

Anyhow back to the original intent...

NO - I am NOT making money right now - I have in the past, but not now - and I don't know why.

 

[JHV]

Front page of Google means nothing if no-one is searching for what you have!
Shown below - result #1 from 22,400

Whilst that's actually quite impressive a result in itself (I'm genuinely impressed) - I'm pretty certain it's a very low value search term. I used to be given these reports when I was working for a large casino affiliate site as Editor (to be used for content, etc) of the "value search terms" (I'm sure some affiliates know the reports I'm referring to - the people I was working with were buying ours but I imagine it's possible to get them for free - basically each search term listed in some tangible form of $ worth for the purpose of ranking their value) - and I just can't ever remember seeing "10c roulette" on any of those lists. I could be wrong but I vaguely remember "$5 roulette" or "$5 blackjack" scraping in at some point but this was some time ago.

Not to mention the obvious fact that someone searching 10c roulette is not going to be close (in terms of potential value) to someone searching $5 roulette.

I'm genuinely impressed though - but I can see why 10c roulette isn't making you rich despite being Result 1 of about 22,200 for 10c roulette - I mean, there's eBay auctions on Google front page SERPs for that search term.

But even though WagerWitch's listing was a blog link (now not showing so I don't know what's going on lol), it was smack there above all the "related searches" and anyone going to Page 2 is likely to see it - for like a top 5 or top 10 value search term (at least back when I last looked at one of these "value lists") - Results 1 - 10 of about 37,800,000 for online casino

Caveat: I could be talking gibberish - I'm really not even an amateur in regards to this stuff, let alone an expert. If someone could explain why it's now not showing, please do! I'm hella confused....

------------

No 5 for "online casinos" google.co.uk is pretty amazing webzcas. I'm am surprised it didn't bring in bucketloads of traffic, you are right there. But at the same time, I understand that 1 is god, top 3 is insane, front page is amazing, etc...

-----------

Every time I look at front page SERPs for high value $ keywords, I get depressed. So few of these sites are getting there via "legitimate" SEO. And, until just now (and I could be displaying my lack of knowledge in embarrassing fashion with the following), I really didn't know what Black Hat was apart from it being considered 'unethical'.

From a bit of reading, it sounds like it's basically just using tricks that Google says are not to be used. If that's correct, um - please don't jump down my throat if this is stupid - what's so bad about that? I say this because the game isn't fair as it is. Google, for whatever reasons, do not have the ability to create a level playing field where quality sites get the top SERPs - how is "black hat" worse than spending millions on targeting link-buys or endless link-swapping, etc? It's all just as bad as the next technique, from what I can see...am I missing something really obvious here?

I mean, in a perfect world, you would have quality sites with quality content on Google front page, but the No 1 SERP for "online casino" - I mean, they're geniuses - their forum has less than 600 posts, in TOTAL. This forum has over 300,000.

When I used to play competitive rugby at uni (I didn't have enough pace to be any good, but we had Australian U/21 rep players in our team, so it was SERIOUS. BUSINESS.), if the referee wasn't policing some aspect of the breakdown correctly, and the other side was smashing you as a result, you'd be a very foolish side not to react accordingly.

Is this analogy a terrible one for the "black hat SEO" issue? Cause to my noob mind, that's how I'm seeing it at the moment. Please correct me if I'm being retarded...

 

[WagerWitch]

TRUST me when I say Blackhat SEO has destroyed the very premise of what GOOGLE tries to be.

You're not wrong - it is a LOT of work to remain on a top position FOR LONGER THAN A DAY.

Check tomorrow and I'll be back up again - and the next day down.

It is a constant jockeying - figuring out what works - what does not and so on.

It's a lot of work.

It used to be fun - until I realized that I don't think GOOGLE matters that much in this industry.

And this is just MY opinion... I get a decent amount of traffic in Google - but not what you would think...

And I watch the trends and I have been top spot on many keywords for long periods of time - and it doesn't bring in the amount of traffic one would think it should.

It is quite a letdown.

I wonder how the BIG business folks who pay for top spot feel?

Advertising and Google are Tricky things.

And I'm not so sure that Google isn't much different in the respect that they are GIANT affiliates for EVERYTHING in the world.

 

[JHV]

NO - I am NOT making money right now - I have in the past, but not now - and I don't know why.

So you got mad SEO skills - but you're not converting the traffic into $....

I'm thinking one or a combination of 3 things:

1. Your casino affiliate departments are screwing you.

2. You're attracting players that don't covert into $ due to incorrect structuring of your affiliate deals? (I don't know if you're using CAP or Rev Share [I think you've referred to the latter a couple times] or hybrids or a combination of all 3 - but if you are using some CPAs, maybe they've been structured too high to qualify your players on first deposit - example: I don't do any CPA stuff but was going to at one point. I had a $250 CPA offer where a qualifying first deposit was $200 and something like 500 raked hands [this is online poker - obv]. I said "Let's make that $50 min deposit and 50 raked hands to qualify" - and he just responded "Ok sure, no problem" - I never ended up using the CPA and I apologise if this is really basic stuff, but it shocked me a little how easily I was able to get him to change the qualifying terms and how huge an impact it would have on revenue).

3. You're attracting players who don't convert well into $ - i.e. people looking purely for free stuff because they simply don't have the money to gamble with. Have you considered using those mad SEO skills to get your stuff up there for searches NOT related to "no deposit"?

-----

Caveat: Just spit balling ideas, etc. I don't know squat really...

 

[dominique]

Re. testing:

Yes, you can test whether clicks, downloads and initial deposits are recorded properly by sending a friend to play, and I do it when I am suspicious. But it's near impossible to test for what's called "shaving" - i.e. removing players from your account and into the casino's account, removing some deposits from long term players, and all sorts of tinkering with statistics. There are no backend audits in this industry, and you have to operate on blind trust.

And yes, I think shaving is wide spread.

Re. google rankings:

They are nice, yes, they do bring people to look at your site and see your work and effort. But the real reason you get signups is because players found what they wanted when first they came and bookmarked your site. A site with over 50% bookmark traffic is a truly healthy site, and one that has earned trust and provides what people need.

As long as you depend entirely on google for traffic, you are in double jeopardy - google has proven over and over that it is fickle and just when you think you are sitting firmly in your positions you lose them. And you still have to contend with dishonest affiliate programs (shaving) and with breaches of contract.

Being an affiliate is indeed a slippery slope, your world changes from day to day and there are many factors that make it a gamble.

The one thing that you can really trust is players. The only way to create a stable, long term business under such precarious conditions is to put your players first - before programs and before google. Because in the end neither google nor casinos put bread on your table - players do.

Place your trust in players (easy to do if you are one yourself) and your players will trust you too. That is what makes everything tick - then you get word of mouth referrals and that is the best "thank you" you can get for your hard work.

Re. UIGEA -

yes, business is way down since then. But it's still good enough to hang in there.

And the future -

hardly any online business makes it without affiliates, big or small, old or new, land based or not, affiliates are the best promoters of online commerce and online commerce knows it. I trust this will hold true, no matter what casinos enter the market.

 

[WagerWitch]

Also JHV - *LMAO* thanks for your offer - FEEL FREE to play at my links :notworthy

Anyhow Yes - I can explain why links move continuously.

As google bots run through the millions of pages daily - it shifts on what I BELIEVE to be an hourly basis now.

If you post a post to a blog - within 30 minutes it can be showing up - if you have your googlebot - or other spiderbots increased to be able to CRAWL your page that much.

I keep my site open and allow ALL robots - and allow ANYTIME crawl.

What this does is positions me constantly for whatever they crawl and results are IMMEDIATE for me.

However - what this also means is that my positions are NOT static and can be changed rapidly based on other sites jumping in and using this tactic as well...

OR GASP...

Something I DID.

For example: a new post with one too many keywords (regardless how they are used and if they are VALID content or not) can move me far down the line immediately upon crawl because the spider bot docks off points for certain "behavior" - calling it "spam" behavior - whether it is or not.

Or a repetitive type post for the same thing - can also knock me down...

However - some things can knock me back up (dang I sound like someone getting pregnant here)...

I just work with things and sort through things and see where they land me.

Google's algorythyms change continuously... And I think it depends primarily on whatever type of content they are working on at the time. For example - if they happen to be working on Advertising schemes for an Automaker - for some reason - any post with the word "CAR" in it - will bump up to the top - for no apparent reason...

And if they happen to be working on advertising about Chickens that live after getting their heads cut off --- well guess what - any words of "CHICKEN" are going to be culled closer to the top.

I think it may even have to do with their mood. *GRIN*

And yes... there was once a chicken who lived a very long time without his head. GOOGLE IT. LMAO!

Anyhow --- the point of my post is - that you have to watch what works and what doesn't on a daily - if not hourly basis.

Sometimes you'll stay on top - and somedays you will sink.

Google is volatile in that you can jockey positions within minutes.

Other search engines tend to stay more static.

So if you get in on the top with them - it is best to try to stay there - ALTHOUGH - 90% of people use Google.

Truth.

But that still does NOT equal traffic or customers.

And even though I can tell how many of my customers have clicked on to websites - and EVEN the websites themselves tell me how many impressions and or clicks - and downloads - I"M STILL NOT SEEING DEPOSITS BEING MADE in the last couple of months.

 

[WagerWitch]

So you got mad SEO skills - but you're not converting the traffic into $....

Exactly...

Sigh - I ought to think to get into another INDUSTRY completely - ROFLMAO.

I'd be worth something there. LOL!

 

[dominique]

.

And even though I can tell how many of my customers have clicked on to websites - and EVEN the websites themselves tell me how many impressions and or clicks - and downloads - I"M STILL NOT SEEING DEPOSITS BEING MADE in the last couple of months.

Firstly, test if the programs you promote actually record the clicks, downloads, signups and deposits accurately. That may well be your issue and if so, weed, weed, weed the bad ones out. Whether you like them or not. Bad accounting is bad accounting.

Secondly, if that doesn't correct the issue, rethink what you are offering to players. Is it what people really want? Is it EVERYTHING they want to know about it? Will they click through from your site, or will they go to another site to get additional info? Do you leave them with questions?

(BTW, as a side comment, some programs will show inflated clicks for certain websites, I have this issue with 3 programs and neither they nor me have figured out what causes it or how to correct it.)

Ask yourself what type person will like your site. Does it appeal to slot players or BJ players? What are the demographics of these players? Male or female, age group? Will they like your colors, layout, graphics?

Lots to think about there, if they are over 40 they need larger print, if they are under 30 they will be more in tune with fashionable colors, and and and....

I haven't looked at your site, these are just thoughts off the top of my head.

Lots of little things can make a big difference...

 

[WagerWitch]

First - Thanks for that very valuable reply D.. It is much appreciated the effort that you put into it.

I'm decent on marketing and demographics, etc. But I do really really appreciate that info. (Every site may not be what the clicker wants - LOL!)

I have counted clicks and have checked impressions against what I have going out.

Going out IMPS and I'd say about 85% of clicks are recorded appropriately with no inflation.

I'm not seeing deposits being made. That is the only difference in the last 3 months.

Now... Knowing that the economy has taken a downturn - I'd like to think YES - this is possible.

BUT - knowing that in the past every 50 downloaders = at least ONE depositor for first deposit - and seeing NO DEPOSITORS lately... Well I am NOT calling the casino aff software liars - but --- seriously 3 months?

And I had some depositors just stop - ALL AT ONCE?

Interesting - possible yes - but interesting all the same.

These are just thoughts I have - doesn't mean that the casinos ARE cheating - I just don't know HOW to check it.

 

[Deeplay]

Really interesting thread - and a good insight to all view points. Im soon to launch my own gaming site which is a first for me. Luckily we wont need to rely on SE traffic as we are going to push traffic from our other sites. No idea if it will work out or not but am really looking forward to getting this going and see where it leads. I think though from all I have read so far money is to be earned without doubt so long as you have the right traffic - and can market a reasonble looking site/portal with honest reviews info etc of the products offered. Our none gaming business is heavily driven by affiliate sales and for sure the guys who sell our product and others in the same market can and do make mega bling. Its all about how much you want to put in - do the work and it will im sure pay.

 

[thelawnet]

I doubt it gets as much traffic as you would think. Especially as it is listed as a footnote blog link at the bottom. It is nevertheless a good achievement.

Up until recently when google had a minor earthquake of their serps, I ranked #5 for online casinos in google.co.uk. You would think that would bring in truck loads of traffic.

Whilst the traffic was nice, it was nowhere near as good as I would have expected.

Now adwords has opened up for gambling terms, it means it dilutes the clickthrus even further. 70% of all searches do not go past the number one ranked site. With the following 20% of searches sharing their clicks between 2nd and 3rd spot. The remaining 10% is then spread out. Reducing the further down the page you go.

I can't be bothered to check, so could somebody tell me what the adwords cost of 'online casino', 'roulette', 'blackjack', would be, to appear somewhere near the top ? (Here in the UK, William Hill and Ladbrokes are near the top, I suspect that's a combination of top dollar payments AND a good clickthrough from their brand recognition, so you can't simply pay $$$ to get to the top)

 

[WagerWitch]

I can't be bothered to check, so could somebody tell me what the adwords cost of 'online casino', 'roulette', 'blackjack', would be, to appear somewhere near the top ? (Here in the UK, William Hill and Ladbrokes are near the top, I suspect that's a combination of top dollar payments AND a good clickthrough from their brand recognition, so you can't simply pay $$$ to get to the top)

I can tell you to be in the top 10 of ANY keyword in Google that is related to Gambling does not TAKE dollars - it takes PERSISTENCE - Groups of people working - link connection - back links, permalinks, do follow, no follow - it takes creating your HTML to be read by Googlebots properly.

It takes time and massive efforts.

You cannot PAY to get to the top in Google any longer - FEATURED LINKS are the pay sites --- AND --- to get to the top --- You might have to PAY people to work for you --- or pay people to link you....

It's pretty mafia oriented.

LOL - ok - not mafia - but blackhat seo tricks are bad - because they require beating out other people by stealing their tricks and inflating links that do not exist - but that you created.

I could go out and make 10000 blogs that pointed back to WagerWitch - but I don't because that would be WRONG.

It isn't real...

But you cant pay Google for top placement.

And Google kinda "technically" frowns on Online Casinos - at least USA.

WW


PS - I twittered this Thread out --- We might get some response - I would really like to see folks talking about all of this stuff - if you don't mind.

Thank you for this thread in the first place - it has really given some interesting conversation.

I''m of the belief that the affiliates need to stand together and create a WHOLE... Because separately we're going to fail.

Like D said - WE ARE STRONG together.

 

[thelawnet]

I can tell you to be in the top 10 of ANY keyword in Google that is related to Gambling does not TAKE dollars - it takes PERSISTENCE - Groups of people working - link connection - back links, permalinks, do follow, no follow - it takes creating your HTML to be read by Googlebots properly.

It takes time and massive efforts.

You cannot PAY to get to the top in Google any longer - FEATURED LINKS are the pay sites --- AND --- to get to the top --- You might have to PAY people to work for you --- or pay people to link you....

I'm talking about the paysites - adwords.

People are willing to pay up to $100 per click for certain key words.

I just checked adwords for 'online casino' and 'online blackjack' and it said 0.37-0.55 for online blackjack and 0.44-0.66 for online casino. Which seems relatively cheap.

 

[lots0]

I'm talking about the paysites - adwords.

People are willing to pay up to $100 per click for certain key words.

I just checked adwords for 'online casino' and 'online blackjack' and it said 0.37-0.55 for online blackjack and 0.44-0.66 for online casino. Which seems relatively cheap.

They are cheap because those keywords don't convert.

 

[thelawnet]

They are cheap because those keywords don't convert.

So what does? What are people paying $$$ for?

 

[lots0]

So what does? What are people paying $$$ for?

You really expect me to answer that...

I have spent years of effort and tons of money figuring out what keywords convert.

If I publish those keywords in a public forum, I might as well just give away my business...

Just the fact I let out that those particular keywords you mentioned earlier don't convert.. will probably end up costing me money.

At one time I was foolish and told someone in an open forum that I ranked in the top three on the first page for [insert big money keyword], it took the competition less than a month before they pushed me down to page 15 in google for that keyword... It has taken me 8 months+ to climb back to the bottom of page 2 for that keyword. This little screw up cost me tens of thousands of dollars.

This is a cut throat business... and as has been mentioned many many times this business attracts some of the worst of the worst. People who have no qualms in stealing ideas, keywords, code, text, images or whatever else they think will make them a few bucks...

There are many people in this business that will act like your best buddy to your face while they attack your site and steal your stuff. Hence all the mistrust between the affs. The site listed in my profile has been under attack for longer than I care to think about. The only positive thing is that because of all these constant attacks I have learned to protect all my sites, gambling and non-gambling, from most attacks by black hat SEO and hackers.

 

[thelawnet]

You really expect me to answer that...

I have spent years of effort and tons of money figuring out what keywords convert.

If I publish those keywords in a public forum, I might as well just give away my business...

Actually I was asking about the keywords that have high CPC, something which you can check in a few minutes with an adwords account.

Some high CPC keywords are very unprofitable because they are too competitive. If you are paying $100 CPC and have 5% conversion, then you need to be making well over $2000 for example.

It's not necessarily the case that a high CPC is a good thing to buy, in a sense that the value of that kind of customer acquisition will tend towards zero, because people will bid up CPCs to such an extent that there's no profit left. The only way around that is improving conversion rates on your site, increasing the vale of a conversion, or driving traffic through other means.

I've always thought that sites built for advertising (be it adsense, casino, whatever) are a thankless task, because it's easy to replicate.

Also I would be interested to see how gambling-related traffic breaks down. There are relatively few sites that seem much use, obviously things like wizardofodds, casinocity, this site, the various bonus-hunting sites, and a few others. But so much appears to be essentially parasitical, it reminds me of the monthly gambling magazine I receive courtesy of some casino (sorry, don't remember the magazine's name), that purports to compare two casinos and gives them star ratings for payout and the like - it's really just BS, a facade for promoting casinos to players.

I guess this is a function of what I mentioned in my OP - the ability to (possibly) make hundreds or thousands of dollars from a single player signing up is a strong incentive to generate content of little value in an attempt to cash in. So as a result we not only get the wizardofodds-type stuff that you'd expect to find online about anything maths-related (not limited to gambling), but also the junk that exists purely because there's a $ to be made.

There are some good sites made for the purpose of cashing in, the difference with the successful ones is time, effort and talent I guess. A site like gonegambling is designed purely to get players to signup and play (compare with wizardofodds - most people reading there will just read and leave - but then WoO has much more traffic), but is a good site because there is added value in the form of games and such like. This means investment of time/$$$/ideas. Others like reviewed-casinos (and in many ways casinomeister) have the advantage of being around a long time.

What it comes to is IMO you need novel content. I guess if you do enough black hat SEO you can make money out of crap as well, but that seems hard enough that you might as well do it the right way.

 

[love2winalot]

Hiya: OK I have a question. Do any of you use other means to get traffic to your site, besides everyone trying to be listed in the top 5 of Google? Like doing some stuff the old fashion way, add in newspaper, flyers, add in gambling magazine, sticker on your car, and so on?

 

[WagerWitch]

You really expect me to answer that...

I have spent years of effort and tons of money figuring out what keywords convert.

If I publish those keywords in a public forum, I might as well just give away my business...

Just the fact I let out that those particular keywords you mentioned earlier don't convert.. will probably end up costing me money.

At one time I was foolish and told someone in an open forum that I ranked in the top three on the first page for [insert big money keyword], it took the competition less than a month before they pushed me down to page 15 in google for that keyword... It has taken me 8 months+ to climb back to the bottom of page 2 for that keyword. This little screw up cost me tens of thousands of dollars.

This is a cut throat business... and as has been mentioned many many times this business attracts some of the worst of the worst. People who have no qualms in stealing ideas, keywords, code, text, images or whatever else they think will make them a few bucks...

There are many people in this business that will act like your best buddy to your face while they attack your site and steal your stuff. Hence all the mistrust between the affs. The site listed in my profile has been under attack for longer than I care to think about. The only positive thing is that because of all these constant attacks I have learned to protect all my sites, gambling and non-gambling, from most attacks by black hat SEO and hackers.

:notworthy

Uhm - no doubt.

However - if you want to send me those words via PM - I'll outrank you in 1 week... LMAO - ok not really - but I would try to get more conversions using those words.

Cause right now - I could REALLY use those conversions... LOL!

But seriously - I would think it would be a nice world to work together in... I wish people weren't so cut throat in this business. It makes me sad that it is so - but I have witnessed it time and time again.

 

[lots0]

Actually I was asking about the keywords that have high CPC, something which you can check in a few minutes with an adwords account.

If you can check it so easy your self, why bother to ask? (Rhetorical question)

FYI - I don't use adwords... IMHO adwords is for people that can't figure out how the system works. (Besides imo Brin and Page have more than enough money)

My take on Internet Marketing:

It does not matter how 'good' or unique your content is, if no one sees it. So you need good ranking in the search engines to bring in the eyeballs.

However...

If your content is 'crap' or spam then it won't matter how many eyeballs see it, cuz no one is going to convert/buy/sign up/download or whatever you want your visitors to do.

If you want to make money with Internet Marketing , you need it all, eyeballs and 'good' content.
Lots and lots of eyeballs and content that people like and use.
There is no substitute imo.

 

[mojo]

Hiya: OK I have a question. Do any of you use other means to get traffic to your site, besides everyone trying to be listed in the top 5 of Google? Like doing some stuff the old fashion way, add in newspaper, flyers, add in gambling magazine, sticker on your car, and so on?

I don't do any off-line ads yet but will after the UIEGA settles down. I think others outside the usa have done well with the old fashioned way though. I would like to do that eventually. It would be fascinating for me and something I would enjoy.

Meanwhile, it's best not to follow the crowd and seek the #1 'online gambling' spot on google. I leave that to the big dawgs and don't bother spending my energy competing. What I do is find my little niche and work with that.

 

[mac-online]

I work 10 hours a day and my head starts to hurt at the end of it. I had to stop for a week to let it all rest. I feel good now and am trying to relax at the work station. A calm attitude keeps me a bit cooler. But I think faster than when I first stared. My cognitive capacity has increased. It is good for me I think. I had to get used to the long hours sitting in the same position. It was my back at first. That went away. Then it was a muscle in my neck. That is almost gone. I wouldn't have though that this job was hard on your body. But it is. Long walks are good. I do a two hour every day. Optimism is KING. Two days ago I had my first deposit and I have been with more energy ever since. I opened my site 3 months ago, from a dead start. Now I have a steady 15 unique visitors per day. But I am concerned about the affiliate program. How can you trust them. I am going to start a new site and get into promoting a casino that is in the family. I should have done that from the start.

But the first site taught me a LOT.

There are a lot of interesting variables you need to cover. It is a dynamic challenge.

Good luck to anyone who will start a site. If you have done well at another type of work. Those same qualities should carry you through being a good Web master. This industry needs more good people, that can still wear the white hat once things get good. I find that to be a problem as much as not making it. Success is a drug,,, very addicting.

 

[thelawnet]

If you can check it so easy your self, why bother to ask? (Rhetorical question)

That's not what I said.

It's easy to check if you have an adwords account. I don't.

FYI - I don't use adwords... IMHO adwords is for people that can't figure out how the system works. (Besides imo Brin and Page have more than enough money)

So why are you being so cloak-and-dagger about Adwords CPCs?