Solaris vs Leovegas

Solaris

Abusive language and behavior
PABnoaccred
Joined
Feb 1, 2018
Location
Norway
Hello everyone

I'm a Norwegian casino player which have used one and a half year of my life playing a lot of casino.
And I mean A LOT.

I want to share my story with casino players on how I have experienced being a online slot player.
Hope if you choose to read it you have an open mind and do not be judgemental and give me the chance of expressing my thoughts and feelings.

I remember I started playing at Maria Casino Easter 2016. There was a registration bonus and I thought maybe you can win without depositing. My family and I were at our cabin and I sat down with my niece and nephew pushing the spin button on rounds. And wow Lucky Leprechaun build us up from 20£ to 200£ in just an hour. It was great fun, we laughed and smiled and joked.
The next day I wanted to withdraw our winnings, but I was inexperienced on how bonuses work. All the money from the account money was suddenly gone. The bonus had to be played 35x and within a couple of hours. I got mad at the customer service becuase I saw this as a fraud like marketing. And I thought that I'd never deposit something to a casino because of this.

This is how my story as a casino player started, but should have ended there.

I got home after the vacation and with my very good job and high salary I thought why not deposit 100£, I can afford it. After all Lucky Leprechaun gave me a lot of features, can't be that hard can it?
So I lost 100£ and won it back the same day. The next couple of days I tried a few more slots, but always returned to the bloody Leprechaun for a reason I can't understand right now.
My girlfriend did not have a big issue with me playing so I introduced her to the casino and we played together starting to up the bets and we won suddenly 2000£ on a 6£ spin. Of course we were in joy and I filled the glasses and started to get tipsy. She went out and I continued playing and lost all included the deposit in just 30 minutes. I think that was the turning point of my dedication to hit the spin button trying to force a bonus round out of the slot machines. It came to my mind that pure willpower would start the features in the slots, and this willpower haven't gone away after that.

From here on it never stopped. The following months the deposits became more and more frequent until I had lost 25000£ in half a year and told myself I'd never play again. I played quite hiddenly when no one was around because of my own damned self respect, in toilets, while driving the car, always looking for an excuse to spin. Eventually I shared my loss story with my girlfriend.
We broke up half a year later and this was naturally a part of it. Bless her, she deserves a good life for the fantastic person she is and thankfully we are friends now.

The biggest problem after a year being a frequent casino player was that I still had access to acquiring huge amounts of money when banks gave me loan after loan without hesitation.
I had changed casino now because I was pissed off at MariaCasino for both valid and unvalid reasons until they closed my account. I won't forget that "friendly" customer service guy who suddenly became unfriendly when he closed my account. Is this the tactics of casinos? Squeeze out as much as possible from customers until they rage and then a reason for closing accounts is suddenly valid?

I started playing at LeoVegas, and I started to became good I thought, playing very carefully and run through every bloody game they could offer playing small spins and built my winnings gradually. I was up 13000£ in a month and thought, this is going the right fucking way.
I lost all in three hours a Saturday night while being drunk. That is one of the worst days in my life. I contacted my ex girlfriend and she gave me comfort in my dark dark evening.
Why didn't LeoVegas contact me after playing so much in one evening? They actually did contact me earlier when they saw I became a very frequent player and asked if I were comfortable playing this much. My answer to them was obviously yes.
I've had an ok dialogue with VIP customer service. They responded as good as they could to small rages I had now and them and gave me som shit bonuses to try to calm me down, carefully talked about their playing limits I could set. One question I had was about my losses during my play time at LeoVegas. I showed how much I had lost during 8 months and asked if this was normal. Yes, they said. I guess you can question if a casino says it's normal to loose in average 8000£ every month.
Do you just buy an experience that is bound to be a loss?
In the end I had a rage to them obviously and they closed my account.


So where am I now?

I have not played casino in a month and removed myself from all possible casinos on pure willpower.
I have sold my appartement.
I have 80000£ in debt to banks.
I have calculated 150000£ in losses playing casino.
I'm trying to get a new job after quitting because I just needed to get away from reality for a while.
I have a new girlfriend who is a lovely person. Yes, she knows.

Do I have a problem with addiction? Do I need help? My answers is no, I choose this life and now I must pay for it. I have made my descision then and now.
Do the casinos have a problem? Yes, because they can't earn money unless most of the customers loose. In my opinion that is horrible for most people, but how else will they survive?
Do I blame those who created the slots? Of course, I've seen it all. I've experienced playing 10-30£ bets not hitting one feature, and when I'm almost out of money setting the bet to 1£ and magically getting a feature on the first spin. And the list goes on and on with strange experiences. But it must be RNG and I have just been unlucky, right?

Casino players does not buy anything more than an experience and a few ones, very few ones actually manages to make this a rather risky way of living by being professionals with a tad of luck. I was never one of them and will never be. Maybe most of you who reads this are the few ones that have a self control, knows when to quit, accepts small losses. And that actually have earned more than you have lossed. Well, I am honestly happy for you and pray that you'll never experience that Saturday I had last year.

This is a lifetime experience. There have been a lot of fun yes, no doubt. I have loved it like many of you do. And I can't regret it, but it is time to move on to a new life. And it is a relief I can't even start to describe.


Dear casino players,
I just wanted to share my story for my own personal reasons. A story which is worth a lot of income for MariaCasino and LeoVegas.

And last I want to tell you that my favorite slot machine (absurd as you might think) was Golden Mane. It did save me so many times when I was about to loose a lot. Second must be Beauty & the Beast with golden bet.


Thanks for reading and hope this is not offending the Casinomeister forum in any way.​
 
Last edited:
Leo Vegas is reviewed at Casinomeister

SpinMeUp

Newbie member
PABinit
Joined
Apr 3, 2018
Location
Germany
Hey mate, 'beautiful' story.. Hope everything goes on well for you!
Take care of your girlfriend please!! :)
 

greylady

A greyhound loves you more than you love yourself!
Joined
Jan 30, 2017
Location
Scotland
Good luck for the future and I am keeping my fingers and toes crossed for you that you manage to put the losses behind you and stay away from gambling - look it as the start of a new life and a second chance :)

My losses nowhere equate to what you have lost but I have turned a corner too, made the decision to quit gambling and make no more deposits and I stand by that - you can spend a lifetime chasing losses only to end up with more losses because a customer at any casino is never really the winner.

Good luck.
 

robby811

Hottie Tottie Meister
Joined
Dec 21, 2016
Location
Germany
Wow great Story Dude and how u handled it.

Very Welcome on Board enjoy the ride !!!

But this was the Best Introduction i have ever read.
 
Last edited:

Solaris

Abusive language and behavior
PABnoaccred
Joined
Feb 1, 2018
Location
Norway
Hello and thank you for your nice replies.

Tomorrow is one of my most important day in my life because I do believe I will get a phone call that will give me a job
that is very good paid.
Strangely I thought one time that 96% RNG would also pay me well :confused:

Keep playing on casinos, but know the limits. Balance is always the best option to achive long term happiness in life in my opinion :)
 

bebo67

Ueber Meister
PABnonaccred
MM
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Location
Ontario Canada
What a great story! Your hidden talent could actually be writing. I'm sorry that you had a rough go, but kudos to you for being " aware". Things happen for a reason, and if you are ever inclined to write let me know. ;)
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
CAG
mm3
Joined
May 22, 2012
Location
the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
Great story and good luck with the future!

I must say in your brief dalliance with gambling you have made a few points which must be answered:

1. You were always an addictive personality but until you gambled this was undiscovered and may never have been discovered had you not joined that site.
2. NO! It is not 'normal' for players to lose 8000 a month, what LV told you.
3. You mention 'professionals' and there is no such thing - we all lose 4% per euro staked on average on slots, unless you are referring to other casino games.
4. You state that some us that read your story may be "the few ones that have a self control" but in reality it's the opposite - MOST have self-control and it's the few who end up addicted.
5. On a more debatable point, you said "I've experienced playing 10-30£ bets not hitting one feature, and when I'm almost out of money setting the bet to 1£ and magically getting a feature on the first spin. And the list goes on and on with strange experiences. But it must be RNG and I have just been unlucky, right?" Well I have to admit this is not the first time I have seen this myself or heard others say it, although theoretically it shouldn't be the case as that would imply some kind of compensation or 'unblocking' of features when the game has been fed enough money, but we'll leave that one for another day....

Again good luck and stay away from the casinos - every day you go without playing is putting distance between you and this unfortunate chain of events from your past, where it should be kept. :thumbsup:
 
Last edited:

LadyJelena

CM Account Manager
Staff member
CAG
MM
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Location
Serbia
Wow breathtaking! I was always wondering how people actually get so addicted to gambling and let it harm their life. From your story it unfortunately sounds so easy to happen.
Sadly, you experienced that cruel part of this entertaining world, including big money and love losses, addiction, rough casino staff and management.. and (hopefully once for good) learned self-control - harder way tho.
Something that turns on my red alarm lamp is when I notice gambling and drink being mentioned together. One of the first things to avoid.

Your writing skills are very good indeed and it's so lovely to read about happy end and how things are getting nice again :) Really moving story and thank you so much for sharing it with us :)

Now tell us did you get that job you were hoping for? :)
 

deadoralive23

Registered
Joined
Nov 21, 2014
Location
uk
You wouldn't expect something which seems so fun to be extremely dangerous and not just financially.
Deposit limits hardly help as there are thousands of different sites to play on.
Limiting yourself is the only way to overcome the addiction but it's easier said than done.
Ps. nice story
 

Solaris

Abusive language and behavior
PABnoaccred
Joined
Feb 1, 2018
Location
Norway
Great story and good luck with the future!

I must say in your brief dalliance with gambling you have made a few points which must be answered:

1. You were always an addictive personality but until you gambled this was undiscovered and may never have been discovered had you not joined that site.
2. NO! It is not 'normal' for players to lose 8000 a month, what LV told you.
3. You mention 'professionals' and there is no such thing - we all lose 4% per euro staked on average on slots, unless you are referring to other casino games.
4. You state that some us that read your story may be "the few ones that have a self control" but in reality it's the opposite - MOST have self-control and it's the few who end up addicted.
5. On a more debatable point, you said "I've experienced playing 10-30£ bets not hitting one feature, and when I'm almost out of money setting the bet to 1£ and magically getting a feature on the first spin. And the list goes on and on with strange experiences. But it must be RNG and I have just been unlucky, right?" Well I have to admit this is not the first time I have seen this myself or heard others say it, although theoretically it shouldn't be the case as that would imply some kind of compensation or 'unblocking' of features when the game has been fed enough money, but we'll leave that one for another day....

Again good luck and stay away from the casinos - every day you go without playing is putting distance between you and this unfortunate chain of events from your past, where it should be kept. :thumbsup:


Thanks for your reply. Just want to reply to your answers :)

1. Yes, but luckily no heavy drugs or alchohol.
2. I sent them a document in February when I was on the verge of massive rage. I always recorded monthly balance and their reply was (transalted from Norwegian):
"Looked at your document and compared a little. Looks quite normal. During longer runs you will unfortunately have minus on your account, but nice to have + some months."
These two months in plus was 630€ and 71€, the rest average on approx. 8500€ in minus....
3. I dare to disagree, you can be a professional. I could play low bets on the slots that I found to be the best ones mathimatically (mostly Greentube) and climb 100€ in average each day, but I needed so much time for this. It was hell, but I never failed until I played high stakes. I did this several times. Would love to show you one day. Or was it just luck? :confused:
4. Ok, won't argue with this.
5. Yeah, let's leave this. We've all seen it with our own eyes, but have no recording of it :laugh:
 

Solaris

Abusive language and behavior
PABnoaccred
Joined
Feb 1, 2018
Location
Norway
This is a thread to post my experiences with Leovegas and my gamling issues which lead to huge losses.
It is not a post to warn about or encourage gambling in any sense, that will be up to those who reads it to make their own mind about.

After being gambling free for a couple of months I think it is important to go back in time and understand what really happened. After all I lost 80'000€ playing on Leovegas from May 2017 to February 2018.
I loved playing...at times, because most of the times I was destined to loose money it seems.

So I dug up my old mails to Leovegas and manage to categorize the worst dialogues I had. I must say I did not recognize myself in many of these and got a little embarrassed when reading them. Oh, how sudden loss of money can affect a persons mood...

Here are the highlights:

-Mail sent 21st of September 2017 where I demand 10% back of everything I have lost since May.

-Mail sent 28th of September 2017 where I state that Leovegas is making fraud against customers through marketing.

-Mail sent 11th November 2017 where I state that I do not win anything anymore (it is hopeless) and suggest instability in the gambling business.

-Mail sent 27th of January 2018 where I am very angry because I continue to loose massive amounts of money.

-Mail sent 16th of February 2018 with document on how much I have lost in average each month and the reply is "looks normal". Is it normal to loose 7000€ in average a month?

-Mail sent 19th of February 2018 where I suggest that the slots are rigged when playing high spins and low spins.

After this I sent a very angry mail to the leaders in Leovegas and then they closed my account.
I have also not listed all the bonuses I was sent to try to comfort all my losses, but in fact made me play more.


Leovegas have stated that they followed every step to make sure they were delivering a responsible gaming experience to me by:
1. Calling me when I started to spend a lot of money asking if I was comfortable.
2. Suggesting to use Leo Safeplay when I complained.

Would a problem gambler care about what Leovegas suggests?
Would a problem gambler loose his mind and send very harsh content in the mails?
Why would Leovegas contantly send small bonuses when I complained?


I hope big spenders and all players for that sake can be treated better in the future. Gambling isn't going anywhere, but there should be a fine balance between operators and players. There are huge responsibilities on both sides. I have not seen this, only the greedy side that does not care for potential personal issues players can develope.
After all Leovegas has been penalised not so long ago for marketing towards problem gamblers which I have seen no comment on from them.


Thank you for reading and have a lovely summer!
 

nutnut

Meister of Infractions
Joined
Sep 11, 2014
Location
england
Sorry but I see nothing they did wrong. The fact they called you to check you are spending what you can afford suggests they did the right thing, you obviously answered yes and carried on. So what are they suppose to do?

All the rest of your post is just nothing but being annoyed at losing the 80,000 euro which I'm guessing you can afford? If not that is your problem to sort. I actually appreciate bonus offers after losing is a way of gambling but not risking as much and if you had won big off that offer your thread would not exist.

1) Accept it was you who choose to lose all that money
2) Accept you need to control your losses
3) Accept you have a gambling problem and sort it

The casino are not mind readers or baby sitters, not meaning to be harsh but it's tiresome how casinos are made to look bad when players lose large amounts then claim it was a sign to get help.
 

Solaris

Abusive language and behavior
PABnoaccred
Joined
Feb 1, 2018
Location
Norway
Sorry but I see nothing they did wrong. The fact they called you to check you are spending what you can afford suggests they did the right thing, you obviously answered yes and carried on. So what are they suppose to do?

All the rest of your post is just nothing but being annoyed at losing the 80,000 euro which I'm guessing you can afford? If not that is your problem to sort. I actually appreciate bonus offers after losing is a way of gambling but not risking as much and if you had won big off that offer your thread would not exist.

1) Accept it was you who choose to lose all that money
2) Accept you need to control your losses
3) Accept you have a gambling problem and sort it

The casino are not mind readers or baby sitters, not meaning to be harsh but it's tiresome how casinos are made to look bad when players lose large amounts then claim it was a sign to get help.


Yes, it seem that you got it worked out looking at a very easy side to the matter and do not present
any depth to your answer which actually could be considered provokative since you are so confident
about protecting the casino.

You could also say that they did do wrong considering the bad communication between the casino and the player.
Why even start asking if a player is ok with the amount spent if not for the sake of caring for the players?
I do not think you have an understanding between running a business fair and running a business trying to be fair
looking at your answer.
If you think there are any ethics and morality in this industry, you are very wrong.
I have plenty of examples/articles on how casinos run their business towards big spenders.
You think I'd just post something out of my own annoyance without any research?

I'm sorry to be harsh against you, I do not expect agreement, but it's tiresome listening to people trying to protect casinos as
if they work in a casino themselves, and do not actually have any in depth understanding of the industry on the player side.
"Mind reading" is measured by data. That is why they called me in the first place...and it is very easy to spot a potential risk player
when you deposit 10 times a day in average without any withdrawals for a longer period.

You are not here to discuss one of the bigger topics in the casino industry? Just to complain to someone who posting something you experience as negative towards a casino, right?
 
Last edited:

TheSam469

Newbie member
Joined
Oct 9, 2016
Location
Malta
I'm sure nutnut was just stating his opinion based on what you presented in your original post.
"It is not a post to warn about or encourage gambling in any sense, that will be up to those who reads it to make their own mind about."

Just saying
 

GoldenGhoul

Experienced Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2015
Location
EU
That's all well and good but there is one basic question here: what would you say were they supposed to do? Suppose they closed your account, would that be ok or just make you mad they closed it? What then about rich people who can gamble this amount of money away no problem? Because of course casinos will want them to keep playing - this is the business they're in. So maybe send requests for source of wealth, but let me tell you that this is already annoying players by the dozens and is probably going to get worse - hard to say whether tha's a good or bad thing overall I admit, but many people are already getting annoyed by having to divulge private information. And yes they called you but if you say you have no problem then nutnut is 100% right - what happens next is your doing. It's like with an illness - I had issues with people that needed psychiatric help or to stop drinking but simply refused it and there is nothing you can do then - if you are not willing to stop yourself then you can always at the very least find a new place to play. Finally, you admit yourself reading some of your old messages you feel like it's not you - accusing them of fraud, slots of being rigged and so on, and here I agree with one thing - maybe this should make the casino more aware of the problem because you clearly acted like a problem gambler, but here we are back at the beginning - what were they supposed to do and how would that have helped you if you could always just play somewhere else?
 

Solaris

Abusive language and behavior
PABnoaccred
Joined
Feb 1, 2018
Location
Norway
That's all well and good but there is one basic question here: what would you say were they supposed to do? Suppose they closed your account, would that be ok or just make you mad they closed it? What then about rich people who can gamble this amount of money away no problem? Because of course casinos will want them to keep playing - this is the business they're in. So maybe send requests for source of wealth, but let me tell you that this is already annoying players by the dozens and is probably going to get worse - hard to say whether tha's a good or bad thing overall I admit, but many people are already getting annoyed by having to divulge private information. And yes they called you but if you say you have no problem then nutnut is 100% right - what happens next is your doing. It's like with an illness - I had issues with people that needed psychiatric help or to stop drinking but simply refused it and there is nothing you can do then - if you are not willing to stop yourself then you can always at the very least find a new place to play. Finally, you admit yourself reading some of your old messages you feel like it's not you - accusing them of fraud, slots of being rigged and so on, and here I agree with one thing - maybe this should make the casino more aware of the problem because you clearly acted like a problem gambler, but here we are back at the beginning - what were they supposed to do and how would that have helped you if you could always just play somewhere else?


Thank you for a good answer and to answer your questions from my view point:

-They should have closed it temporary giving the reason that I might be a problem gambler.
Would it help? Maybe a little. Maybe very much. At least they would have shown ethical actions which they barely show towards players.
-My point exactly is that they are simply running a business, but it's the worst kind of legal business for a consumers who looses (and most do)
That is why there should be more strict rules. I know they will come, but in the meantime casinos do their most to do business even if it triggers
addiction to people.
-People with addcitions must admit they have one to be cured faster I agree, but it seems very short to say "if they don't admit it, there is nothing we can do".
There are plenty ways of helping people in denial. A broad topic indeed, so let's stick to gambling addiction.
Here is a very easy understandable article that links to several help organistations:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
 
Last edited:

GoldenGhoul

Experienced Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2015
Location
EU
That is why there should be more strict rules. I know they will come, but in the meantime casinos do their most to do business even if it triggers
addiction to people.
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

This can be said about many things that cause addiciton or harm, gambling being just one of them, but I digress. I see another problem here though, namely that what these strict rules often tend to result in is that non-problem gamblers get "punished" by them more than they help the problem gamblers, case in point being the recent source of wealth requests issued against players, making them go through hoops, send private client information via mail and so on - clearly these things are not easy to implement and it's never going to work perfectly (or even properly). I could draw a parallel to anti-piracy measures in video games that hurt buyers with needless restrictions while pirates crack it quickly anyway. So I don't really think that "more strict rules" are likely to be a good thing, though it would be nice to be proven wrong.

And all things said and done this could lead to philosophical debates about just how evil gambling is, and probably would get a lot of advocates around the world for downright banning it, which is likely why I seem to find myself more in the "people should be responsible for their own actions" camp than in the "casinos should protect players" camp - though they both certainly do have a lot of merit.
 

Gaz237

Ueber Meister
MM
Joined
May 8, 2014
Location
chelmsford UK
Yes, it seem that you got it worked out looking at a very easy side to the matter and do not present
any depth to your answer which actually could be considered provokative since you are so confident
about protecting the casino.

You could also say that they did do wrong considering the bad communication between the casino and the player.
Why even start asking if a player is ok with the amount spent if not for the sake of caring for the players?
I do not think you have an understanding between running a business fair and running a business trying to be fair
looking at your answer.
If you think there are any ethics and morality in this industry, you are very wrong.
I have plenty of examples/articles on how casinos run their business towards big spenders.
You think I'd just post something out of my own annoyance without any research?

I'm sorry to be harsh against you, I do not expect agreement, but it's tiresome listening to people trying to protect casinos as
if they work in a casino themselves, and do not actually have any in depth understanding of the industry on the player side.
"Mind reading" is measured by data. That is why they called me in the first place...and it is very easy to spot a potential risk player
when you deposit 10 times a day in average without any withdrawals for a longer period.

You are not here to discuss one of the bigger topics in the casino industry? Just to complain to someone who posting something you experience as negative towards a casino, right?

You should of pointed out, in your original post, That you only want replies from people who agree with you.
 

Solaris

Abusive language and behavior
PABnoaccred
Joined
Feb 1, 2018
Location
Norway
You should of pointed out, in your original post, That you only want replies from people who agree with you.

Thanks for the funny reply.
I'm sure you have a lot to provide in a discussion like this, but I disagree with your comment.
I do not intend to gain support and agreement even though it might be as black and white for you and that person who replied me first.
 

Solaris

Abusive language and behavior
PABnoaccred
Joined
Feb 1, 2018
Location
Norway
This can be said about many things that cause addiciton or harm, gambling being just one of them, but I digress. I see another problem here though, namely that what these strict rules often tend to result in is that non-problem gamblers get "punished" by them more than they help the problem gamblers, case in point being the recent source of wealth requests issued against players, making them go through hoops, send private client information via mail and so on - clearly these things are not easy to implement and it's never going to work perfectly (or even properly). I could draw a parallel to anti-piracy measures in video games that hurt buyers with needless restrictions while pirates crack it quickly anyway. So I don't really think that "more strict rules" are likely to be a good thing, though it would be nice to be proven wrong.

And all things said and done this could lead to philosophical debates about just how evil gambling is, and probably would get a lot of advocates around the world for downright banning it, which is likely why I seem to find myself more in the "people should be responsible for their own actions" camp than in the "casinos should protect players" camp - though they both certainly do have a lot of merit.


I was not clear enough about strict rules, that I admit.
Casinos now work after a well scripted model to prevent people to use more money than they can afford.
At least that is what the law forces the casinos to. But this model have in my opinion a very big potential to be more advanced. And of course we are talking about A.I
which casinos already use for their machine learning. You can by these elements actually in a very early process predict a potential problem gamber, thus preventing many
and tragic stories, but will the casinos do so? Not until they are forced to I believe.

I am in the camp between, I think it should be well balanced, and that is the hardest work for both players and casino providers.
 

Deeplay

New World Order
webmeister
CAG
mm1
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Location
The biG Eu
I feel for the OP i really do. 80k is a massive loss for most people. But in the end its down to the person to take control of there own gambling and there is more and more help out there now with different organizations , SE / DL but the player has to take there own responsibility. To truly beat a gambling addiction you need to take responsibility for your own actions. Block yourself everywhere online and put as many hurdles between you and the casino as you possibly can. Sure it has taken online casinos a long time to get there shit together when it comes RG , but finally things are changing. And certainly for UK players more and more protection is being implemented and i think its only a matter of time before the rest of the EU follows.

Harsh fact is even if Leo Vegas had closed your account earlier on, because you were in the throws of your addiction you would have just found another casino to spunk your money away. Which is why you need to work on the problem from within.

I will forever be a hapless addict because I love the game, but im back to cut throat DL Limits, and using TAB when I am feeling like tilt loometh on the dark horizon. I use ever safety net I can to enjoy my degenerate pass time - so that I can actually enjoy it. But hey thats just me. OP work on yourself and forget Leo Vegas and what they did or did not do. It dont matter now - does it ? what matters is you ensuring you never gamble again ever.

With you the best
 
Top