Accredited CM casinos without Danish license

[rainmaker]

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59 (1) Anyone who intentionally or by gross negligence provides or organises games in Denmark without holding a licence under this Act shall be liable to a fine or imprisonment for up to six months.


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As from today, operators who want to offer play to Danish customers should have a Danish gambling license.

Operators who now are licensed in Denmark are obligated to pay a duty of 20% on the gross gaming revenue + regular corporate tax + license fee.

Yes, it is expensive to operate in a regulated and legal marked. But the Danish regulation is seen as quite reasonable.

The case is that there are several CM accredited casinos who have applied (and been granted) one or several licenses. Some examples are Nordicbet, Ladbrokes, Betway (Gnuf) and Bet365. But most casinos on the accredited list have not applied, so they hold no Danish gambling licenses.

Responsible operators who do not hold a Danish gambling license should therefore not accept Danish customer.

I contacted some accredited unlicensed (unlicensed in Denmark to my knowledge) casinos today and asked them “do you accept Danish customers?”.

This is what I was told (by e-mail or live chat):


3Dice:

thank you for contacting support. We do welcome Danish players, but leave it to the player to know the legislation in his or her locality.

Paddy Power:

No im afraid we do not accept players from this Country

32Red:

Yes

+E-mail from Nedplay:

As we have not been advised to the contrary, then at this moment we are still happy to accept players from Denmark.
If and when this situation does change, then of course we will contact any players affected and update as necessary.

Club World Casino:

We are based in England, and we welcome players from all over the world, however it is up to the player to find out if playing online is illegal in their state / country

Platinum Play (Fortune Lounge):

With regards to your request I can confirm that at the moment we are not able to acquire any new players from Denmark.
*
We have applied for all the various licences required by your government, and this should all be confirmed and approved by March if not before then.

Bodog:

Yes, sir. We accept players from any part of the world

Virgin Games:

Yes we accept players from Denmark at Virgin Games.

INetBet:

Yes we have many players from Denm\ark, you are welcome.



The Danish Gambling Authority has already said that they will at any time consider to IP block unlicensed casinos and relevant payments. So yes, I am quite surprised to see that many unlicensed accredited casinos will continue to accept Danish players. These casinos are putting their Danish players at risk in my opinion (funds may be confiscated, players may have problems with withdrawals etc).

And there is also a ethical side of this as well. Some accredited casinos are now a part of the player protective regulation where they are paying duties and taxes (+license fee) for their Danish income, while other accredited casinos…well, they do not.

 

[rockycatt]

with all do respect , the fees that that [new to the game ] countries that want to cut to the front of the line like im expecting the U S A to do got some nerve bryan and max should look them over and make shure there in the best interest of the players [all of a sudden its there game ]

before they even start to think there a over seer lets put them on probation also lets see first what in fact they can do to improve the return to player and demolish rogue casino groups

they have no power on the net just greed for a piece of the action
comments please R C

 

[Silencio]

All I got till now are messages from sites who have been granted a danish license. None reported leaving the Danish market yet.
Including but not limited to:
betway
purple lounge
intercasino
roxy palace

 

[rainmaker]

with all do respect , the fees that that [new to the game ] countries that want to cut to the front of the line like im expecting the U S A to do got some nerve bryan and max should look them over and make shure there in the best interest of the players [all of a sudden its there game ]

before they even start to think there a over seer lets put them on probation also lets see first what in fact they can do to improve the return to player and demolish rogue casino groups

they have no power on the net just greed for a piece of the action
comments please R C

The tendency in Europe is quite clear. More and more countries will regulate their own market. Denmark is only one country on a longer list of countries who already have started to regulate or are planning/ discussing regulation. I think the regulation in Denmark is quite reasonable for both operators and players. There are examples in other countries where operators have been required to for example pay tax based on turnover etc.

 

[P.V.]

It's pretty straight forward, you either have, or have applied for the new required Danish gambling license.

If you don't get one, you've been warned by their government, they will do whatever is necessary to block the I-Gaming sites and players.

This equals losses for everyone..

 

[vinylweatherman]

This could generate a few nominations for the 2012 "Head in the sand" award. Those that have not acted are probably still relying on the fact that the internet is hard to police, and that prohibition hasn't really worked in the US.

The Danish authorities should call their bluff and ENFORCE the new rules, and show that they are serious. Operators should have been applying last Autumn, and clearly some have. They will not be too pleased to find that this was a waste of time and money because no effective enforcement is taking place.

 

[spoton]

It's pretty straight forward, you either have, or have applied for the new required Danish gambling license.

If you don't get one, you've been warned by their government, they will do whatever is necessary to block the I-Gaming sites and players.

This equals losses for everyone..

One can see that the danish government wants a piece of the cake, but as it has been said, policing the internet is pretty impossible. They can either go for the dns-block or ip block, but using another dns-server or a vpn will get around it. The same with blocking payment methods.

Something tells me this will favour a few casino groups who doesent tend to care about any laws at all.

Atleast the danes doesent use the the problem gambling excuse, as they do here. Allowing people only to play with the company the government owns who gives like 50% back to the players.

 

[Dipity]

Spain is going down the same route now, and I have already recieved several emails about operators pulling out, or removing certain parts of their casinos for Spanish players.

EDIT: Most notably Paddy Power and Party Casino.

 

[Silencio]

o, bad news for Danish players, 32red added Denmark to it's restricted territories.

 

[prk]

.
Virgin Games:
Yes we accept players from Denmark at Virgin Games.

Hi guys,

Virgin Games stopped accepting players from Denmark last month.
Rainmaker, apologies if you were informed otherwise.


Cheers,

 

[rainmaker]

Hi guys,

Virgin Games stopped accepting players from Denmark last month.
Rainmaker, apologies if you were informed otherwise.


Cheers,

It is great to see that Virgin respects the regulated marked in Denmark and that you do not operate there as an unlicensed operator.

Yes, I was told otherwise by your support (e-mail). Thanks for your clarification

 

[The Viking]

thos casinos below are not allowed at Inetbet dont know if they just added it or not but i can see Denmark there,if they told you they allow Danish players they must have just added it, anybody know were is the list at 32red page is cant find it

Albania, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Byelorussia, Bosnia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Cost Rica, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Hungary, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Myanmar, Zimbabwe, Denmark, Indonesia, Kosovo, Latvia, Lithuania, Malaysia, Moldova, Montenegro, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Ukraine and Yugoslavia.

 

[rainmaker]

thos casinos below are not allowed at Inetbet dont know if they just added it or not but i can see Denmark there,if they told you they allow Danish players they must have just added it, anybody know were is the list at 32red page is cant find it

Albania, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Byelorussia, Bosnia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Cost Rica, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Hungary, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Myanmar, Zimbabwe, Denmark, Indonesia, Kosovo, Latvia, Lithuania, Malaysia, Moldova, Montenegro, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Ukraine and Yugoslavia.

Thanks for that information. Yes, they may have updated it now. As stated by their CS (e-mail), not only did they accept new Danish players, but they even had plenty of current Danish players


-Yes we have many players from Denm\ark, you are welcome.

 

[rainmaker]

.

Just an update regarding 32Red (32Red Plc).

32Red contacted me and clarified this issue. They confirmed that they do not accept Danish players.

-We have instigated IP blocking and are restricting any purchases attempted from Danish Card Issuers so as to comply with this new legislation.

As mentioned by Silencio, bad news for their Danish fans.

Kudos to 32Red as well for respecting the Danish regulation

 

[Silencio]

thos casinos below are not allowed at Inetbet dont know if they just added it or not but i can see Denmark there,if they told you they allow Danish players they must have just added it, anybody know were is the list at 32red page is cant find it

Albania, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Byelorussia, Bosnia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Cost Rica, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Hungary, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Myanmar, Zimbabwe, Denmark, Indonesia, Kosovo, Latvia, Lithuania, Malaysia, Moldova, Montenegro, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Ukraine and Yugoslavia.

lol don't you just love it how they nicely alphabetize the list, and even leave some non-existing countries in it

32red has it listed in: about us > restricted territories.
Denmark
Hong Kong
South Africa
Turkey
United States of America
US Virgin Islands
US Minor Outlying Areas
France and French Territories
Italy

 

[rainmaker]

Spain is going down the same route now, and I have already recieved several emails about operators pulling out, or removing certain parts of their casinos for Spanish players.

EDIT: Most notably Paddy Power and Party Casino.

Dipity

Just a couple of questions. I am not so updated about the Spanish regulation. But think I read somewhere that operators in Spain need to pay 25% tax on gross profit. Do you know if this is correct?

And it is correct that players need to pay tax on their winnings?

Thanks

 

[takethemoney]

Rainmaker, you want to gamble, right? Be glad you can. There are plenty of shitty casinos out there who will take your bet. I see no room to complain about the licensing. What are your alternatives? I suppose you could go play with the curgam-malta group, virtual, top game or others of their ilk. The choice as to whether to take the risk is yours alone. I think, however, that just because a casino is not licensed in a particular jurisdiction does not mean its a bad place to play. Take my situation...I'm in the USA and there are no online casinos that are licensed to do business here. I'm glad there are some casinos that will take our action, in spite of the fact some would deem it unlawful.

 

[Casinomeister]

I think this thread serves as an example on how turbulent the industry can be. Some changes come overnight, and many casinos really don't know how to respond yet - eventually they do one way or the other. Glad to see a number of casinos getting on the bandwagon of joining a regulated market.

On the flipside, traditionally many casinos have left it up to the player to ensure that they are in a non-prohibited state. Online gaming laws can be very obscure at times - just look at the US for example. Now we have the DoJ deciding they were wrong about the wire act after all.

Back to Denmark - I'm guessing that a majority of Accred Casinos will have a Danish license within the next few months. It's a domino effect.

 

[Nifty29]

My question is.....is the tax only payable on Danish transactions? Probably a stupid question.

What kind of teeth will the Danes have in regards to enforcement? If the DOJ couldn't stop US citizens gaming offshore what can the Danish government do?

If licensed casinos have to pay a 25% tax now, it means either Danish players will get no bonuses and/or be restricted from low edge games. The only other solution is to penalize all players via less bonuses/higher WR or perhaps even lower RTPs (where this facility is available). I just cannot see these operators absorbing that cost.

It's interesting how costly regulation really is. It's not the perfect solution that many think it is.....you can be assured that if US regulation occurs, RTPs will drop to cover costs and those who already believe they're being ripped off will be having a fit. Trust me, you will notice the difference.....just play our regulated machines here at 84-88% for a few months and you'll see what I mean (I'm sure Bryan will be happy to fund a study tour for some senior members )

Some casinos will find a way for Danes for play without gaining a licence, and will make it more attractive to do so by offering better promotions.

It would be far better for the EU to regulate gaming.

 

[Dipity]

Dipity

Just a couple of questions. I am not so updated about the Spanish regulation. But think I read somewhere that operators in Spain need to pay 25% tax on gross profit. Do you know if this is correct?

And it is correct that players need to pay tax on their winnings?

Thanks

Yes. It's a straight 25% of all profits, and the verification procedure for players is a lenghty, drawn out affair. About players paying tax on winnings, I'm not sure yet.

Pat H from 32red pm'd me this from yesterdays gaming magazine:

The launch of Spain’s online gambling market has been delayed by six months in order to give the regulator enough time to verify and issue successful applicants with their licences by 30 June this year.

As a result, the newly formed Spanish government, whose ministers met for the first time on 30 December, amended its gaming law and extended the amnesty period for dot.com operators in which they will be able to continue to offer products and advertise to Spanish players as well sponsor various activities in the country without fear of prosecution.

On 16 December last year eGaming Review revealed that a total of 62 operators have applied for an egaming licence in Spain, but that the sheer volume of paperwork needed to process applications was likely to scupper a 1 January launch.

Spanish regulator Juan Carlos Alfonso had met every deadline in the run up to the scheduled market opening however, the lack of time and manpower needed to process more than an estimated 600kg of documentation has halted recent progress.

 

[shakylegz]

Hi everybody. As a dane in denmark who likes to play online casinos this really sucks . first.. Lately I have been recieving lots of e-mails from various casinos(some of my favorites to) telling they are sorry to tell that they no more can support danish players.

Secondly, the few licensed casinos that are left for us to play have changed bonus and player policy in different, but radical ways.. and not in the favour of danish players I tell you. At intercasino even some slot games are restricted now (f.ex Buccaneer's Bounty) other have doubled the WR to 60X or even more. A black day for online gamblers in denmark

 

[rainmaker]

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Nifty: My question is.....is the tax only payable on Danish transactions? Probably a stupid question.

Yes, operators are only obligated to pay tax on Danish transactions.

Nifty: What kind of teeth will the Danes have in regards to enforcement? If the DOJ couldn't stop US citizens gaming offshore what can the Danish government do?

Good question. I have mentioned that they for example can block unlicensed sites/ relevant payments. But we all know that players “easily” can avoid these restrictions.

But a regulated market can not be compared to what has happened in US since the US market is not regulated. If the regulation is successful then there will be little need for enforcement.

First of all, most of the larger operators in the world will respect regulated markets. They will either apply for a license or pull out. This is exactly what we are seeing in Denmark right now. You have very large operators like Betsson, Unibet, Betfair, 888, Sportingbet, Ladbrokes, Pokerstars and Bet365 who all have been granted Danish licenses. While a large operator like Paddy Power has chosen not to apply and therefore has pulled out.

Secondly (and quite important), only license holders will be able to advertise.

The Danish Act :

Only game providers with a license are allowed to advertise games

According to section 59 (5) (iv) a penalty of a fine may be imposed on anyone who gives publicity to games or game providers that do not hold a license. Advertising and publicity cover the receipt of sponsorships from illegal game providers.

Thirdly, I think most active players in Denmark are aware of this new regulation and therefore will approach those who are actually licensed in Denmark. And Danish players who are using licensed casinos do not need to pay tax on their winnings (this is especially great news for poker players in Denmark).

And finally, I think the largest casino supplier also will respect regulated markets over time. For example, one of the replies I got from an accredited casino who is using Microgaming was:

“We are no longer accepting new players from Denmark. This is because of a change of policy within our software provider effected due to regulatory changes in the Danish market”


My point is that an accepted regulation (accepted by operators and partly by players) will “automatically” strangle those who are operating without a license. But yes, there will be examples of operators who are willing to accept Danish business without a Danish license. But I do not think these operators will “threaten” the regulation in any way simply because they are very small peanuts in the company of those who actually holds a Danish license. And as I already have said, responsible operators without a license will pull out.


.

 

[rainmaker]

.

Update regarding iNetBet.

The iNetBet rep has told me that the information I received from their CS was incorrect. They do not accept Danish players (IP ban)

 

[darkfire]

The other problem with regulation is that I've heard of some countries' regulation, in which they tax based on profit and consequently as part of the regulation they specify a maximum payout percentage on games. (ie. the higher the margins, the more tax they rake in). I've heard of max payout percentages as low as 50%.

The governments are even greedier than the operators...

 

[prk]

<derail>
Hey Rainmaker, we've been going through our email logs but can't find your interaction with our CS about Denmark.
Could you PM me more info on this (email address, etc...)? Thanks in advance
</derail>