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A follow up...

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Bruno712, Apr 8, 2004.

  1. Bruno712

    Bruno712 Banned User

    First and foremost, I will address what appears to be Bryans major problem with my original thread. Sorry for misspelling your name.

    I would like to thank everyone who responded (very intelligently and thoughtfully I might add) to my contribution. I wish I had the time to address the issues each of you expressed regarding my post. Oh, thats right, I do!

    Clj7221, although it is true that a defendant can choose to waive his right to a jury trial and choose to have his case heard by a judge, I would argue that Interdigits, by posting in a public forum, in no way waived his right to a jury trial. On the contrary, he chose to post ad popolum and by doing so made this a jury matter. It is not the judge that chooses the method of adjudication but the accused. Wow, I am getting real lawyery here, LOL.

    Grandmaster, the term used by a judge in his directions to a jury in a civil or tort case is preponderance of evidence, as opposed to the reasonable doubt BS that he gives in a criminal trial. But there must still be evidence. Hearsay is allowed more often in a tort case than a criminal case (wait until you see all the hearsay allowed in the Kobe case!), but only when substantiated by other prima fascia evidence.

    To Bryan, Spearmaster, Ryan, all other portal website owners/managers, all casino owners, software owners and developers, and respected members of the gaming community (that about cover it?): My post was not meant to be taken personally. The names mentioned could have been interchanged with a hundred others on any given day, given all the bizarre events and conflicts that take place in this wild and wooly world of online gaming. It was not an attack on Casinomeister. It was not an attack on Intercasino. It was intended as a constructive piece of criticism directed at all sides of the issue. I believe that all those involved admit that there are problems with this business remaining status quo. It is a reactive environment to the extreme. I believe that it serves the good of the whole more to live in the solution rather than to live in the problem. I believe the online casino business took a big step in admitting they have problems by creating ECOGRA. Historically, though, any business or group that attempts self regulation is doomed to failure. I offer Major League Baseball, public utilities in the US prior to 1984 and any police department in this country pre Knapp as proof. Self regulation ultimately results in self interest, self promotion, cover ups, kick backs and self destruction. Therefore, I am challenging the business as a whole to prove its good intentions are not a mere crumb thrown to the starving throngs. Go the extra step. Go all the way to legitimacy and involve your life blood, the player, in your attempt to mainstream this potential gold mine.

    And, finally to Dominique. I must, therefore conclude by both your defense of and complaint about your having to take part in mediation due to being a webmaster (Im assuming by your use of the first person that you are), that not one webmaster gets paid for the banners and ads I see on your websites. Otherwise, you would be merely complaining, as we all do, about the unpleasant aspects of doing our jobs. Input the appropriate players into the following scenario and see how your argument sounds. Exxon seeks out and pays a law firm to handle their legal and PR matters. Joe six-pack sues Exxon. Exxon, out of the kindness of their collective hearts, offers to pay for Joes attorney as long as it is an attorney that works for the same partnership that Exxon has retained for the last 60 years. Now, remember, Exxon sought out this law firm so they must be unbiased! As deep as I dig, the logic in that argument escapes me. For one thing the scenario I described is not only unethical but quite illegal. Webmasters, regardless of how loud you guys scream neutrality, get paid BY ONE SIDE ONLY to mediate a two sided matter. Your reactions shock me, to say the least. I am accusing you people of being nothing less than human beings! I do not doubt that your intention is to be as fair and as just as possible. And I mean that. But I have learned in my 30 odd years of litigation that the last place I would ever look for fairness and justice is in a court of law or at an arbitration hearing. The reason is that ultimately, the final decision is up to one person. One person cannot make an unbiased decision. Inherent in its oneness is the opinion of one!!!! And, if you dont think that the verdict of a jury is the direct result of the decisions made during the trial by the guy wearing the robes, you are naive to the extreme. Can you say OJ and Ito?
     
  2. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    "Balance of probabilities" is the term used in the UK (possibly excluding Scotland), Canada, Australia, and probably many other countries. The world does not consist of the US alone.
     
  3. kniepm

    kniepm Dormant account

    Actually, as of 9/11/01, GWB decided the world does, in fact, consist of the U.S. alone.

    God help us all.
     
  4. cipher

    cipher Banned member - being a jerk

    First off, why is it that everywhere you look on the Internet you see all of these casinos touting such slogans as: "Just like Vegas odds" or, "Better than Vegas odds from the comfort of your own home", that's a good one.

    Last time I checked Vegas was and still is in the United States. Lastly, you can rest assured without the good old U.S. DOLLARS derived from players here in the United States there would be no internet gaming business and that's a fact.
     
  5. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    I didn't see it that way either.

    I know, and I believe most everyone else felt the same way too.

    And this is what makes this industry so interesting and fascinating to watch. There is a human need to gamble. You find games of risk and chance in every culture imaginable, and this online industry is born from this. Gambling is a risk, operating a casino is a risk, providing information on online gambling is risky in terms of veracity and responsibility. Advertising is risky. It all feeds on and assimilates itself.

    Kinda like the Borg.

    So in a way. The self regulation is there -- to an extent. Operators know that if players get shafted, they will lose business. The problem is that many casinos are set up with improper funding and can't/won't pay players who win large sums. These businesses usually go tits up and slink off to neverland.

    It's the larger companies that have been known to screw players and remain in business that bother me. Casino-on-air has/had cheating software and people still play there. I just got a complaint yesterday in the "Pitch a Bitch" section from someone owed money. Grand Banks and Black Widow still stall payments - even a year later when one of the operators told me face to face that they do this to discourage bonus players. I could go on and on...but I digress.

    One thing that I feel some people misunderstand is my role in arbitrating. I don't arbitrate. I've been told a number of times by casino operators that they would abide by my "decision" which ever way I went with it. I never seek this sort of role - it's usually place on my shoulders unwittingly.

    The only casino group I've been willing to arbitrate for is the Virtual Group. When players complain through me, the complaints are streamlined to the head of management. That's it.

    What I do here is provide information. This is the core of Casinomeister and always has been. Type in "online casino information" at google and see what comes up. And this is not a paid spot. I normally come up in the top three because this is what is here - information.

    Communication is the other primary function. Players have the forum to discus whatever, I have a newsletter and webcast to blab about current issues. And the news section is updated weekly with current issues as well.

    And then there is assistance. I set up the "Pitch a Bitch" section mainly to organize player complaints that came to me. This form allows them to give me the information I need to handle these things effectively. Name, account number, url of casino, etc. I don't solicit this, I merely make this available.

    When players have an unsolved problem with an online casino, I forward the problem to the online casino - either to my contacts or their support - and ask them to look into it. Most casino operators know that I feel obligated to warn my members and players in general when things are amiss, and will do whatever it takes to correct the malfunction. It's as simple as that. Players don't pay me. And I don't want them to either. And most of the casinos that I receive complaints for aren't clients of mine.

    These are the complaints that have come in since this Monday via "Pitch a Bitch"

    Connect To Casino
    casino on air
    Giant Vegas
    hamptoncasino
    *InterCasino
    *Jackpot city
    Isla Bonita casino
    Grand Banks
    Grand Banks Casino
    Black Widow Casino
    Pokerroom

    * = client

    True, the only decision I make is whether to warn players or not - and at what level. There are levels of mismanagement/incompetence/evil. Some casinos are cautioned about, some are warned about via Vortran (my robot sidekick), some are not recommended, and some are slam dunked into the infamous "rogue" section.

    As for fraudulent players, I usually let them walk away from it all unless they make it a public spectacle, or they are downright evil. See the Evil Players section for examples.

    And it's easier for me to be unbiased when I am alone and no one depends on me for their "buttered bread" :D I think that is what I was trying to get at in the other thread. And if I decide to rogue someone, it's done with a heavy heart because I know someone is getting screwed; either the player or operator. We all have mouths to feed.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2004
  6. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    In a nutshell, I cannot agree with the "getting paid by ONE SIDE ONLY" theory. I do not get paid to help resolve disputes; if anything, a casino operator may take that the wrong way if I find for the player.

    Furthermore, of the disputes I have gotten involved in, roughly 75% of them were resolved in favor of the player. Yet the player does not pay me anything and I do not ask for anything either.

    The only thing I get out of this is what Bryan gets - integrity and trust. Players know we can be counted on to provide a balanced view of things.

    Though we may sometimes appear overly harsh on the occasional player, keep in mind that we are often much harder on the casinos, both publicly and privately.

    You demand a fair playing field. We demand a fair playing field. So we're on the same side, trust me.
     
  7. clj7221

    clj7221 Dormant account

    Worst thing to do here is to get political........but you opened the door.



    if your not happy with your country you can always leave!



     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2004
  8. ueber_alles

    ueber_alles Dormant account

    Ah yes....the love it or leave it saying :rolleyes: :puke:

    How about if you don't like your country work to CHANGE IT
     
  9. clj7221

    clj7221 Dormant account

    Exactly and you should send that to
    kniepm. He is the one with complaints against his country.Not I.





     
  10. lanidar

    lanidar Dormant account

    kniepm should live here in New York City.
    kniepm should have been here when 9/11 took place.
    kniepm should have seen the Towers crashing down as I did.
    kniepm should not complain about this GREAT country we live in!!!
    kniepm should leave if he's not happy here.
    kniepm should check Travelocity...airfare is cheap.
     
  11. amandajm

    amandajm Experienced Member

    No politics please.
    The whole world seems so angry sometimes and I don't like it.

    I have tried to build a spaceship in the backyard but do not have enough room to keep all the space in otherwise i'd have left already.
     
  12. lanidar

    lanidar Dormant account

    You're right...this is no place for politics.
    But...as CLJ7221 said:
    "Worst thing to do here is to get political........but you opened the door."
    (Speaking of kniepm)
    I will not stand by and allow ANYONE to mock The United States of America .
    We Americans realise that "the world does NOT, in fact, consist of the U.S. alone."
    But where would the rest of the world be without the U.S.A.
    [​IMG]
    Kudos to you...CLJ7221 :thumbsup:
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. clj7221

    clj7221 Dormant account

    It's great to see a fellow American who knows the truth and is proud of this Country as I am.
    Thank You lanidar.
    God Bless America



     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2004
    1 person likes this.
  14. Rambler

    Rambler Banned User

    Hi there (Pilgram)(lol), I assume you think all of us here in the good old USA are weakminded, commi loving chinkidinks (aka Warren Cloud of Crystal Palace( Also known as Hong Kong phoey, literally, in the academic world( trust me he is from Saipan or Shangai based on his syntax to the meister or maybe he is a fourth grade computer flunkie?); However, after reading his responses to the meister, he is no AMERICANO, lol). So the Question is this, pilgrim, what are you anyway? Or anyday? Are you a fairweathered socialist or a commi loving Hong Kong phoney baloney like Warren cloud? Look, I love gaming as much as the rest of us here in the Pacific Rim, Europe and the Good Old US Of A) As my GRANDPA always said, you don't talk about religion and politics unless you are among intimate friends or running for office in your respective country. God help us all if this type of bs continues on a gambling portal. Proud to be an American.
    PS. I didn't cut down or pick from the proverbial cherry tree. I honored it like George Washington and his namesake, G W Bush. Peace.










     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2004
  15. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    I'm not an American but it bugs me to see folks hammering the Yanks at every turn...until there's a need for military help or financial aid, when the tune quickly changes.

    Let's remember the good, too. And that's hopefully my last political statement on this forum!
     
  16. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Chill please

    I'm stepping in because this thread is getting derailed here. Chill on the political stuff since it has nothing to do with the initial post. Political rants and raves are welcome in the Wild Cards section. Thanks!
     
  17. m249a

    m249a Dormant account

    'nuff said :cool:.............p.s. meister, did you get my private message reply???
     
  18. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Yep, all the way and then some :D

    So when I tell some casino manager to get their head out of their fourth point of contact, at least you'll know what I'm talking about. :thumbsup:
     
  19. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    1 person likes this.
  20. lanidar

    lanidar Dormant account

    Shameful :confused: ...Not at all.... :D
    I just clicked on the link :thumbsup:
    PROUD TO HAVE YOU AS A FRIEND.
     
    1 person likes this.

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