32Red Allowed me to gamble after asking for self exclusion.

[hypeamg]

Im confused by all the hate towards the op here, i wonder if it would be the same if the complaint was against a less liked casino.

If the email is real then the op CLEARLY made 32red aware he had a gambling problem, that in itself should be enough to lock the account, it certainly would in a decent casino. The fact he stated he had a gambling addiction AND to close the account just makes it worse. If he also told live chat, then its worse again. The fact that 11 days later he could still login is pretty disgusting, assuming the info in the thread is true, and if it is then i hope 32red get hauled over the coals for it.

As to previous thread, the guy has an addiction. If soneone was addicted to crack you wouldnt say tough, you took some last week, no good crying about it now.

Thanks Colins, really appreciate the kind words! I know I gambled the money away, but yes if I could switch this off and just be someone who could spend £10 occasionally for entertainment purposes I would, but my brain just doesn't work like that unfortunately for some reason. Thanks for the comments though, I am not trying to swindle anyone out of anything here I am just stating what happened after another devastating night.

 

[hypeamg]

I also believe that under the terms of The UK Gambling Commission License Conditions & Codes of Practice which I read up on after last night...

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3.5.1 Licensees must have and put into effect procedures for self-exclusion and take all reasonable steps to refuse service or to otherwise prevent an individual who has entered a self-exclusion agreement from participating in gambling

3.5.3 Licensees must close any customer accounts of an individual who has entered a self exclusion agreement and return any funds held in the customer account. It is not sufficient merely to prevent an individual from withdrawing funds from their customer account whilst still accepting wagers from them. Where the giving of credit is permitted, the licensee may retain details of the amount owed to them by the individual, although the account must not be active.

All of which were failed, reasonable care could of been taken to help me actually help myself. I think it's legally known as a breach of duty of care, ie negligence to protect the player. In my past experience, if I had of sent an email like I did to other casino's they would of stopped me immediately.

 

[hypeamg]

I have just spoken to the UK Gambling Commission on the phone, and told them all of the details as outlined in the posts here, upon looking at my email and hearing about the chat transcript (given I could not find any settings on the site to self exclude) they have told me 32Red should not of allowed me to gamble, so hopefully it may be resolved. I told her about the "terminology" difference but she still said given the circumstances and the details that were sent directly to 32Red on email, duty of care measures should have been taken to protect me as a player.

 

[incrediblestuff]

I also believe that under the terms of The UK Gambling Commission License Conditions & Codes of Practice which I read up on after last night...

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3.5.1 Licensees must have and put into effect procedures for self-exclusion and take all reasonable steps to refuse service or to otherwise prevent an individual who has entered a self-exclusion agreement from participating in gambling

3.5.3 Licensees must close any customer accounts of an individual who has entered a self exclusion agreement and return any funds held in the customer account. It is not sufficient merely to prevent an individual from withdrawing funds from their customer account whilst still accepting wagers from them. Where the giving of credit is permitted, the licensee may retain details of the amount owed to them by the individual, although the account must not be active.

All of which were failed, reasonable care could of been taken to help me actually help myself. I think it's legally known as a breach of duty of care, ie negligence to protect the player. In my past experience, if I had of sent an email like I did to other casino's they would of stopped me immediately.

Fair enough - you weren't addicted to drinking, i just assumed so because of the way you described it: used to drink to escape - aftereffects so bad - anxiety attacks and paramedics sure made it easy for me to think so, especially since you have those disorders and obviously an addictive personality -or at least it seemed obvious to me.

Still doesn't mean i wasn't giving you good advice regarding steps to take, and frankly, as you also said you have self excluded over 100's of accounts, i would to explain why i quoted the above:

It's really easy to shift responsibility, especially for people with severe problems of this kind. Again, i say you seem to be an intelligent chap, and i wonder why instead of all this effort to get back money you lost, you had not already made more effort in the past to prevent any such scenario from ever happening again? Having a mac is not an excuse, if it really was, then you could have solved it by switching PC's, after all, the danger of losing a house is nothing compared to learning to operate windows instead of Apple, right? I know that this may sound silly to some, but if you have gambling problems, yet 'solve them' time and time again by excluding from Casino X, then proceeding to the next, your obviously not really working on quitting. Instead, and i say this because again, you seem intelligent, you should have focused on preventing yourself to ever get into trouble again with gambling online, at least.

You quoted the UKGC -but as someone who has set up a successful business yourself, you should know enough about responsibilities, and the way things work
regarding banking and money transfers, that is is foremost your own responsibility to take all reasonable steps to prevent yourself getting into trouble.

You clearly haven't, and again i say, start now! You could have started after the first of those account exclusions, but definitely after the previous thread.

 

[hypeamg]

Fair enough - you weren't addicted to drinking, i just assumed so because of the way you described it: used to drink to escape - aftereffects so bad - anxiety attacks and paramedics sure made it easy for me to think so, especially since you have those disorders and obviously an addictive personality -or at least it seemed obvious to me.

Still doesn't mean i wasn't giving you good advice regarding steps to take, and frankly, as you also said you have self excluded over 100's of accounts, i would to explain why i quoted the above:

It's really easy to shift responsibility, especially for people with severe problems of this kind. Again, i say you seem to be an intelligent chap, and i wonder why instead of all this effort to get back money you lost, you had not already made more effort in the past to prevent any such scenario from ever happening again? Having a mac is not an excuse, if it really was, then you could have solved it by switching PC's, after all, the danger of losing a house is nothing compared to learning to operate windows instead of Apple, right? I know that this may sound silly to some, but if you have gambling problems, yet 'solve them' time and time again by excluding from Casino X, then proceeding to the next, your obviously not really working on quitting. Instead, and i say this because again, you seem intelligent, you should have focused on preventing yourself to ever get into trouble again with gambling online, at least.

You quoted the UKGC -but as someone who has set up a successful business yourself, you should know enough about responsibilities, and the way things work
regarding banking and money transfers, that is is foremost your own responsibility to take all reasonable steps to prevent yourself getting into trouble.

You clearly haven't, and again i say, start now! You could have started after the first of those account exclusions, but definitely after the previous thread.

Yes you did give me good advice and I am going to do something about it and put everything in place that I can, before I have just burried my head in the sand but now it's a life threatening situation so all advice is much appreciated.

 

[Deeplay]

Yes you did give me good advice and I am going to do something about it and put everything in place that I can, before I have just burried my head in the sand but now it's a life threatening situation so all advice is much appreciated.

A few links to help you other than the UKGC.

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[Mark_32Red (retired acct)]

Hi All.

Just a quick note to confirm that 32Red are aware of this thread/complaint and we will respond to the player when the relevant processes have been completed.

Thanks to everyone who brought the thread to our attention.

Regards,
Mark

 

[SpinUk]

A lot of semantics going on here. Ultimately, if you put that email the Op wrote in front of any offical third party - a judge etc - and the email was proven to have been received by 32Red, then 32Red will be required to refund the deposits. Whether or not the Op's words explicitly asked for "self-exclusion" is immaterial - it is a condition of their gambling licence that 32Red exert a duty of care to their customers due to the nature of their business. Not acting on the distressed tone of the Op's email is clearly a breach of that.

I don't expect Mark the rep to give any sort of meaningfull response here and it would be foolish of him to do so.

I also don't think that this will be the end of the of the Op's gambling addiction, regardless of him getting this money, but that is an entirely differant conversation.

 

[slotter999]

A lot of semantics going on here. Ultimately, if you put that email the Op wrote in front of any offical third party - a judge etc - and the email was proven to have been received by 32Red, then 32Red will be required to refund the deposits. Whether or not the Op's words explicitly asked for "self-exclusion" is immaterial - it is a condition of their gambling licence that 32Red exert a duty of care to their customers due to the nature of their business. Not acting on the distressed tone of the Op's email is clearly a breach of that.

I don't expect Mark the rep to give any sort of meaningfull response here and it would be foolish of him to do so.

I also don't think that this will be the end of the of the Op's gambling addiction, regardless of him getting this money, but that is an entirely differant conversation.

Well said sir.

 

[petro]

Hi All.

Just a quick note to confirm that 32Red are aware of this thread/complaint and we will respond to the player when the relevant processes have been completed.

Thanks to everyone who brought the thread to our attention.

Regards,
Mark

Thanks Mark, maybe this will make the casino re-think their slow self exclusion rules.

 

[DreamRJ]

Hi All.

Just a quick note to confirm that 32Red are aware of this thread/complaint and we will respond to the player when the relevant processes have been completed.

Thanks to everyone who brought the thread to our attention.

Regards,
Mark

Thanks Mark.

But can i just say, from what i understood i really thought that 32red has done nothing wrong in this case. But sometimes i can be wrong, but we shall see when you have done your internal investigations.

Cant wait to read the outcome.

 

[hypeamg]

Thanks Mark.

But can i just say, from what i understood i really thought that 32red has done nothing wrong in this case. But sometimes i can be wrong, but we shall see when you have done your internal investigations.

Cant wait to read the outcome.

In fairness this is an issue between 32Red and myself, and therefore regardless of their decision I will be 100% respectful and confidential, and pursue the matter through legal channels if need be. However, apart from this issue 32Red has always been a very good casino and far superior to many others - it's just a shame I can't play recreationally like everyone else.

Lastly, this is an issue between myself and the casino that needs to be resolved in some form or another. So regardless of the outcome, and whether or not I have to take it further (which I will if necessary) ultimately it's something I just want to put behind me, get help, and move on with my life.

 

[DreamRJ]

In fairness this is an issue between 32Red and myself, and therefore regardless of their decision I will be 100% respectful and confidential, and pursue the matter through legal channels if need be. However, apart from this issue 32Red has always been a very good casino and far superior to many others - it's just a shame I can't play recreationally like everyone else.

Lastly, this is an issue between myself and the casino that needs to be resolved in some form or another. So regardless of the outcome, and whether or not I have to take it further (which I will if necessary) ultimately it's something I just want to put behind me, get help, and move on with my life.

but you did so in a public forum? made me chuckle. usually we do get to know the outcome of cases when threads get made anyway. So even though it is between you and the casino, usually we still do get informed as to what the outcome was or is most of the time anyway.

And if you do actually get a refund of the deposits made since the 6th june, what is to say you wont do it again, then days/weeks/months down the line, make a new account and do it again and again?

And the reason you would make a new account in CM is so that people wouldnt know it is the same person. But i will be sure looking out for such threads in the coming weeks anyway. So i suggest you take on board what people have said and get help for your underlying anxiety issues which will mean you need a lot of help and you will need to close all of your gambling accounts, and i dont mean close, i mean self exclude from all of them. And ring your bank and get them to block all payments to gambling organisations and also block them to ewallets as well, ewalltes being skrill/neteller/paypal/ecopayz/paysafecard, soo many you need to get blocked from your bank end.

And only then you can start to put this behind you.

I wish you the best of luck.

 

[hypeamg]

but you did so in a public forum? made me chuckle. usually we do get to know the outcome of cases when threads get made anyway. So even though it is between you and the casino, usually we still do get informed as to what the outcome was or is most of the time anyway.

And if you do actually get a refund of the deposits made since the 6th june, what is to say you wont do it again, then days/weeks/months down the line, make a new account and do it again and again?

And the reason you would make a new account in CM is so that people wouldnt know it is the same person. But i will be sure looking out for such threads in the coming weeks anyway. So i suggest you take on board what people have said and get help for your underlying anxiety issues which will mean you need a lot of help and you will need to close all of your gambling accounts, and i dont mean close, i mean self exclude from all of them. And ring your bank and get them to block all payments to gambling organisations and also block them to ewallets as well, ewalltes being skrill/neteller/paypal/ecopayz/paysafecard, soo many you need to get blocked from your bank end.

And only then you can start to put this behind you.

I wish you the best of luck.

I raised the complaint yes, because that's what I believe would be the only way initially - however I don't want this to turn into a barrage of posts because ultimately it's a single decision by a casino for which I am waiting to hear on - however I think it's very clear that stricter self-exclusion measures should be put in place at 32Red, especially given the fact I could not find anywhere to self-exclude on the actual website, and live chat would not accept my request.

 

[DreamRJ]

I raised the complaint yes, because that's what I believe would be the only way initially - however I don't want this to turn into a barrage of posts because ultimately it's a single decision by a casino for which I am waiting to hear on - however I think it's very clear that stricter self-exclusion measures should be put in place at 32Red, especially given the fact I could not find anywhere to self-exclude on the actual website, and live chat would not accept my request.

actually you do have a point there. I did just login and check and your right, there is no easy to find section to do it in the browser version.

But in the help section i found this:

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it basically states that to self exclude you need to ring a phone number.

So actually you found a casino that does not have a good policy for self exclusion and that is required by any casino who has a UKGC license. I should have probably checked this before i posted my previous posts. But still you didnt state in the email you wanted to self exclude only in that live chat that we have yet to see the transcript off.

If this is the case then yes, maybe 32red are in the wrong then. And you do actually in fact have a case. But if you did this knowingly on purpose because of this and the fact the amounts was huge as well also adds some more caution to the fact that if you was well aware of it before hand. And the fact you had made that other thread about the MT group of casinos as well before 32red makes me think you might have done this on purpose, and are testing casinos integrity and policies and finding these loop holes and then attacking them.

but eitherway, I am sure that Mark will investigate this further anyway. It just makes me question as to why on earth you would deposit such a huge amount still. to me i am sorry but i still have some alarm bells.

I am now just torn in 2, I can see yes that 32red have flaws and maybe they do not deserve to stay accredited but then on the otherhand what i said above in this post as well regarding yourself.

Anyway lets just wait and see what Mark comes back with.

Could be today or in the coming days we will find out.

 

[greylady]

I really do hope that 32Red respond sooner rather than later to the OP, I can only imagine the personal torment he is going through whilst waiting for a decision - he already sounds desperate.

I know it is a public forum but can people remember the OP is vulnerable before posting, thank you

 

[Deeplay]

In fairness this is an issue between 32Red and myself, and therefore regardless of their decision I will be 100% respectful and confidential, and pursue the matter through legal channels if need be. However, apart from this issue 32Red has always been a very good casino and far superior to many others - it's just a shame I can't play recreationally like everyone else.

Lastly, this is an issue between myself and the casino that needs to be resolved in some form or another. So regardless of the outcome, and whether or not I have to take it further (which I will if necessary) ultimately it's something I just want to put behind me, get help, and move on with my life.

Well if the above was the case why post on a public forum ? If you wanted between yourself and the casino you should not have posted here. So the cats out of the bag, and people will comment and will give there own opinions. And will want to know the outcome. I think im reading veiled threats in your post above against the casino.

I think people here are waiting and wanting to see both sides of this issue, not just your own.

 

[ricky]

Well if the above was the case why post on a public forum ? If you wanted between yourself and the casino you should not have posted here. So the cats out of the bag, and people will comment and will give there own opinions. And will want to know the outcome. I think im reading veiled threats in your post above against the casino.

I think people here are waiting and wanting to see both sides of this issue, not just your own.

i dont understand why 32red didnt reply to the email

 

[hypeamg]

Well if the above was the case why post on a public forum ? If you wanted between yourself and the casino you should not have posted here. So the cats out of the bag, and people will comment and will give there own opinions. And will want to know the outcome. I think im reading veiled threats in your post above against the casino.

I think people here are waiting and wanting to see both sides of this issue, not just your own.

I have received a reply from 32Red, who have stated it will take 7 days in total to investigate. That's quite a substantial amount of time for such a simple issue?

Furthermore, on 3 individual occasions for which I have documented them all, I kindly requested Live Chat Transcripts, which again I have yet to receive.

I would imagine (given I run a software company) that these records can be accessed in a matter of minutes. Yes, obviously discussion will need to take place and everything will need to be reviewed, but 7 days seems extreme when I brought the issue first to them more than 16 hours ago.

I don't suppose the "issue" would take 7 days if it was a deposit issue by any chance, do you?

 

[Deeplay]

i dont understand why 32red didnt reply to the email

Well all we have is the OPs side of things up until now and i could be wrong and if so I say publicly sorry before hand. But the OP had exactly the same issue (see the other thread) back on june 5th with MT Secure trade casinos and was making threats to charge back. There is a pattern here. Sure 32RED have a full responsibility for responsible gambling but on this one today I smell bullshit. I could be wrong , might be wrong, but dont change the fact the OP seems to be looking for casinos he is not SE from, gambling then when he looses crys wolf.

And the op would not have made any complaint if he had won. Thing is 32red can stop all this crap by just having an automated system so with 1 or 2 clicks the player can SE without the need to call a number or fill in forms. And for this one yeah they should be dragged over the coals if it was found that the OP did clearly request a SE.

Its a messy one for sure .... with no winners this time I fear.

 

[Jono777]

In fairness this is an issue between 32Red and myself, and therefore regardless of their decision I will be 100% respectful and confidential, and pursue the matter through legal channels if need be. However, apart from this issue 32Red has always been a very good casino and far superior to many others - it's just a shame I can't play recreationally like everyone else.

Lastly, this is an issue between myself and the casino that needs to be resolved in some form or another. So regardless of the outcome, and whether or not I have to take it further (which I will if necessary) ultimately it's something I just want to put behind me, get help, and move on with my life.

Then I have to ask, why post on a very popular public forum

 

[Deeplay]

I have received a reply from 32Red, who have stated it will take 7 days in total to investigate. That's quite a substantial amount of time for such a simple issue?

Furthermore, on 3 individual occasions for which I have documented them all, I kindly requested Live Chat Transcripts, which again I have yet to receive.

I would imagine (given I run a software company) that these records can be accessed in a matter of minutes. Yes, obviously discussion will need to take place and everything will need to be reviewed, but 7 days seems extreme when I brought the issue first to them more than 16 hours ago.

I don't suppose the "issue" would take 7 days if it was a deposit issue by any chance, do you?

Well 25k is no small sum so naturally they are going to want to fully investigate. I know I would if speaking of such large sums of money.

But just a question for you ... since the MT secure trade issue you had back on the 5th June didnt you think about what you were doing ?

You need help fella and fast ... and stop chasing the losses!

 

[hypeamg]

Well if the above was the case why post on a public forum ? If you wanted between yourself and the casino you should not have posted here. So the cats out of the bag, and people will comment and will give there own opinions. And will want to know the outcome. I think im reading veiled threats in your post above against the casino.

I think people here are waiting and wanting to see both sides of this issue, not just your own.

They are not veiled threats, I am protecting my rights as a player according to duty of care. I have every right to question the licensing UKGC compliance of the casino in accordance with how my self-exclusion chat request and email requests were handled. This isn't a "threat" it's a without prejudice complaint as set out in my original email to them.

 

[lockinlove]

I have received a reply from 32Red, who have stated it will take 7 days in total to investigate. That's quite a substantial amount of time for such a simple issue?

Furthermore, on 3 individual occasions for which I have documented them all, I kindly requested Live Chat Transcripts, which again I have yet to receive.

I would imagine (given I run a software company) that these records can be accessed in a matter of minutes. Yes, obviously discussion will need to take place and everything will need to be reviewed, but 7 days seems extreme when I brought the issue first to them more than 16 hours ago.

I don't suppose the "issue" would take 7 days if it was a deposit issue by any chance, do you?

Wow really, complaining about the length of time they are taking to investigate this? You know they have thousands of players and cases going on right. You are not the only player in their casino.

This is not the same thing as a deposit issue. This is about $25,000 you are wanting back and where back dated chatlogs, emails, gaming commission guidelines and gameplay will be reviewed.

I would just be quiet and wait if I were you.

 

[hypeamg]

Wow really, complaining about the length of time they are taking to investigate this? You know they have thousands of players and cases going on right. You are not the only player in their casino.

This is not the same thing as a deposit issue. This is about $25,000 you are wanting back and where back dated chatlogs, emails, gaming commission guidelines and gameplay will be reviewed.

I would just be quiet and wait if I were you.

Maybe I am a little heated, so yes I will take a seat and wait!

 

[nutnut]

I have to say I am disgusted by how the forum has responding to the opening poster, but sadly not suprising. Aside from Colin who decide to break away from forum group whitch hunt, most other people have weirdly been rather harsh and critical which boggles my mind.

I read one of you guys saying because he never used the words "self exclusion" 32red did not need to close his account? I honestly hope that person is joking or must have shares in 32red.

This guy contacted live chat stating he had a problem and wanted to be banned, that moment the live chat should have alerted someone to do this, right there they made the mistake themselves in not dealing with the problem. Asking someone with mental issues and a addiction to send a e-mail is a disgrace. Some of your attitudes to mental health issues is why stigmas exist.

How can you not understand a person with that much mental problems is not going to be stable enough to compose a e-mail asking for self exclusion, in HIS case he did e-mail stating he wanted it closed, and he had a gambling addiction.

If this is correct, he has every right to get back his deposits and 32red should be fine for openly allowing a addict to continue when he alerted them TWICE.

Please opening post make sure you get every penny back and more, and ignore this forum with it's usual 32red chanting of how wonderful they're.

You're fully in the right here if what you say happened. As for people judging him for not using the word self exclusion, you're a embarrassment to this forum for using this as a defence for 32red.

 

[miksaxxx]

..

25k is farth from 32red to One player . But if they need to pay , this would maybe bring samekind of cases. And then it isnt farth anymore

I understand that they need to go everything through.

 

[Deeplay]

I have to say I am disgusted by how the forum has responding to the opening poster, but sadly not suprising. Aside from Colin who decide to break away from forum group whitch hunt, most other people have weirdly been rather harsh and critical which boggles my mind.

I read one of you guys saying because he never used the words "self exclusion" 32red did not need to close his account? I honestly hope that person is joking or must have shares in 32red.

This guy contacted live chat stating he had a problem and wanted to be banned, that moment the live chat should have alerted someone to do this, right there they made the mistake themselves in not dealing with the problem. Asking someone with mental issues and a addiction to send a e-mail is a disgrace. Some of your attitudes to mental health issues is why stigmas exist.

How can you not understand a person with that much mental problems is not going to be stable enough to compose a e-mail asking for self exclusion, in HIS case he did e-mail stating he wanted it closed, and he had a gambling addiction.

If this is correct, he has every right to get back his deposits and 32red should be fine for openly allowing a addict to continue when he alerted them TWICE.

Please opening post make sure you get every penny back and more, and ignore this forum with it's usual 32red chanting of how wonderful they're.

You're fully in the right here if what you say happened. As for people judging him for not using the word self exclusion, you're a embarrassment to this forum for using this as a defence for 32red.

No one can make an assessment as to if someone has mental health issues aside from a medical professional. But he was clear enough to fight a similar issue with MT Secure trade last month and clear minded enough to post over on Ask Gamblers complaining about another casino a short time back.

Its not a witch hunt but i seen too many people come here, sobbing about the losses and using the SE thing as a weapon to reclaim losses. I have said it before and will say it again even if he does get refunded (who knows on that one yet) it wont resolve the problem and until the gambling addiction issues are dealt with he will continue to gamble sadly.

 

[danchop]

I have to say I am disgusted by how the forum has responding to the opening poster, but sadly not suprising. Aside from Colin who decide to break away from forum group whitch hunt, most other people have weirdly been rather harsh and critical which boggles my mind.

I read one of you guys saying because he never used the words "self exclusion" 32red did not need to close his account? I honestly hope that person is joking or must have shares in 32red.

This guy contacted live chat stating he had a problem and wanted to be banned, that moment the live chat should have alerted someone to do this, right there they made the mistake themselves in not dealing with the problem. Asking someone with mental issues and a addiction to send a e-mail is a disgrace. Some of your attitudes to mental health issues is why stigmas exist.

How can you not understand a person with that much mental problems is not going to be stable enough to compose a e-mail asking for self exclusion, in HIS case he did e-mail stating he wanted it closed, and he had a gambling addiction.

If this is correct, he has every right to get back his deposits and 32red should be fine for openly allowing a addict to continue when he alerted them TWICE.

Please opening post make sure you get every penny back and more, and ignore this forum with it's usual 32red chanting of how wonderful they're.

You're fully in the right here if what you say happened. As for people judging him for not using the word self exclusion, you're a embarrassment to this forum for using this as a defence for 32red.

i am going to ask you one serious question only,which day were you on really bad drugs?was it today with the above post or was it 6th of june when this comment was aimed at the same op in his previous thread?im hoping bad drugs is the case because schizophrenia is a serious mental health issue......

Quote Originally Posted by nutnut
You don't deserve a penny back, I hope you get nothing. You knew full well you was excluded yet YOU decided to sign up, YOU decided to deposit and because you lost you KNEW you was entitled to the money back.

I would be embarrassed to make this thread if I was you, but dignity and self respect doesn't seem to matter to you.

Everyone has problems in life, it is up to you to get them sorted. If you had won you would have been screaming to be paid, I do not like casinos but in cases like this I side with them.

 

[Jono777]

As I said many posts back, no make that many threads back, every man and his dog are using this "SE Loophole" when they land themselves in shit street and nothing personal but I believe that is exactly what we are witnessing here, again!

 

[dunover]

As I said many posts back, no make that many threads back, every man and his dog are using this "SE Loophole" when they land themselves in shit street and nothing personal but I believe that is exactly what we are witnessing here, again!

The matter is serious and I think it is irrelevant whether the OP is refunded or not - as I said earlier, the refund will just be more means to gamble somewhere else. Secondly, as I said before, posters conjecture "you wouldn't complain had you won" but that ignores the fundamental issue that people badly addicted never win, so it's a non-argument. They just spend until it's gone and seldom withdraw so never win. In fact, this is perfectly demonstrated in the OP's communication to 32Red where he states he was 19k before spunking it all back then more. If his text on 32Red via CS isn't proof he needed stopping from playing and fast, I dunno what is!! He should have been stopped at that point, then he came up against the convoluted and ridiculous SE process at 32Red which we all know about from before.

This 'SE Loophole' would not exist if the casinos did their job properly, or were made to by the UKGC. Example, if you are SE'd from Mecca games, try opening an account at sister site Grosvenor and see how far you get! On the other hand, do it at an EveryMatrix site and we know what happens....

It's all very well a licensee having a cheap and profitable side line in White Labels for example which are nothing more than flags of convenience, but with that should come some responsibility, i.e. cross-referencing sign-ups across all the casinos under the license, something which Cassava are now paying a huge sum out for failing to do. Hopefully EM will be next. Maybe the UKGC should make every casino have it's own license, or threaten to, then they'd poo themselves at the cost and soon 'discover' how to effectively ensure SE across the license/White Labels.

OK, a slight digression there as the cross-license SE is another issue, although related. This whole thread wouldn't be here if 32Red had not chosen to interpret the rules differently from 95% of other UKGC licensed casinos and decided not to have a one-hit SE button for simple instant automated account lock-out. They have the e-mail delay of up to 3 days (or 4 if a Bank Hol weekend) which to the desperate addict is far longer than they need to destroy themselves and bust every penny they have access to. This issue first came to light and was extensively discussed in April 2016, so over a year later it still prevails - neither they nor the UKGC have acted since despite both of these entities being fully aware of the problem.

One can only speculate as to why 32Red haven't installed this speedy SE system yet....

P.S. Has this been changed since 2016? I quit there after that TAB nonsense so when I last looked it was e-mail TAB and a convoluted series of screens to find the SE tool? Perhaps he went on CS because it was quicker?

 

[interlog]

As I said many posts back, no make that many threads back, every man and his dog are using this "SE Loophole" when they land themselves in shit street and nothing personal but I believe that is exactly what we are witnessing here, again!

If we take at face value what the OP said, then what he lost before he made 32red aware of his gambling problem should be money lost and never returned to the OP.

However, no matter what spin you put on it, once 32red was aware this player had problems (first via chat then via email), the account should have been closed forthwith and he should not have been able to make further deposits. Those deposits should be returned.

That is aside from the fact that the OP needs help with his problem and should share some responsibility too. But that doesn't stop 32red being responsible too.

I asked another casino to close my account permanently (not because of gambling problems) and 10 minutes later it was done. No questions asked just a simple reply email it was done.

That is how you run a proper casino.

 

[Jono777]

The matter is serious and I think it is irrelevant whether the OP is refunded or not - as I said earlier, the refund will just be more means to gamble somewhere else. Secondly, as I said before, posters conjecture "you wouldn't complain had you won" but that ignores the fundamental issue that people badly addicted never win, so it's a non-argument. They just spend until it's gone and seldom withdraw so never win. In fact, this is perfectly demonstrated in the OP's communication to 32Red where he states he was 19k before spunking it all back then more. If his text on 32Red via CS isn't proof he needed stopping from playing and fast, I dunno what is!! He should have been stopped at that point, then he came up against the convoluted and ridiculous SE process at 32Red which we all know about from before.

This 'SE Loophole' would not exist if the casinos did their job properly, or were made to by the UKGC. Example, if you are SE'd from Mecca games, try opening an account at sister site Grosvenor and see how far you get! On the other hand, do it at an EveryMatrix site and we know what happens....

It's all very well a licensee having a cheap and profitable side line in White Labels for example which are nothing more than flags of convenience, but with that should come some responsibility, i.e. cross-referencing sign-ups across all the casinos under the license, something which Cassava are now paying a huge sum out for failing to do. Hopefully EM will be next. Maybe the UKGC should make every casino have it's own license, or threaten to, then they'd poo themselves at the cost and soon 'discover' how to effectively ensure SE across the license/White Labels.

OK, a slight digression there as the cross-license SE is another issue, although related. This whole thread wouldn't be here if 32Red had not chosen to interpret the rules differently from 95% of other UKGC licensed casinos and decided not to have a one-hit SE button for simple instant automated account lock-out. They have the e-mail delay of up to 3 days (or 4 if a Bank Hol weekend) which to the desperate addict is far longer than they need to destroy themselves and bust every penny they have access to. This issue first came to light and was extensively discussed in April 2016, so over a year later it still prevails - neither they nor the UKGC have acted since despite both of these entities being fully aware of the problem.

One can only speculate as to why 32Red haven't installed this speedy SE system yet....

Agreed throughout!

We pretty much made very similar posts back in page 2 of this thread.

Another thing I wish to add (wish I'd stuck as I said and stopped out of this thread!) is that regardless of whether 32 Red should have done this, that or the other is that from the players side I feel that they've played away thinking along this route as a "Back up Plan" in case things (as they did) went south!

IMO the best outcome from this and multiple other instances along this subject is that this loophole or "Get out of jail free card" is closed and fast!

 

[danchop]

The matter is serious and I think it is irrelevant whether the OP is refunded or not - as I said earlier, the refund will just be more means to gamble somewhere else. Secondly, as I said before, posters conjecture "you wouldn't complain had you won" but that ignores the fundamental issue that people badly addicted never win, so it's a non-argument. They just spend until it's gone and seldom withdraw so never win. In fact, this is perfectly demonstrated in the OP's communication to 32Red where he states he was 19k before spunking it all back then more. If his text on 32Red via CS isn't proof he needed stopping from playing and fast, I dunno what is!! He should have been stopped at that point, then he came up against the convoluted and ridiculous SE process at 32Red which we all know about from before.

This 'SE Loophole' would not exist if the casinos did their job properly, or were made to by the UKGC. Example, if you are SE'd from Mecca games, try opening an account at sister site Grosvenor and see how far you get! On the other hand, do it at an EveryMatrix site and we know what happens....

It's all very well a licensee having a cheap and profitable side line in White Labels for example which are nothing more than flags of convenience, but with that should come some responsibility, i.e. cross-referencing sign-ups across all the casinos under the license, something which Cassava are now paying a huge sum out for failing to do. Hopefully EM will be next. Maybe the UKGC should make every casino have it's own license, or threaten to, then they'd poo themselves at the cost and soon 'discover' how to effectively ensure SE across the license/White Labels.

OK, a slight digression there as the cross-license SE is another issue, although related. This whole thread wouldn't be here if 32Red had not chosen to interpret the rules differently from 95% of other UKGC licensed casinos and decided not to have a one-hit SE button for simple instant automated account lock-out. They have the e-mail delay of up to 3 days (or 4 if a Bank Hol weekend) which to the desperate addict is far longer than they need to destroy themselves and bust every penny they have access to. This issue first came to light and was extensively discussed in April 2016, so over a year later it still prevails - neither they nor the UKGC have acted since despite both of these entities being fully aware of the problem.

One can only speculate as to why 32Red haven't installed this speedy SE system yet....

have you physically checked cause its there?
took me two minutes,i clicked on responsible gaming and this appeared.....

If you believe that you have a gambling problem you are urged to seek help and give consideration to using our Self Exclusion facility.

i then clicked on the icon and was too scared to click further because i sensed doing this may bring on sweats,cold chills,ghost pains,homophobia and a great sense of loss,oh and anxiety of course

 

[danchop]

If we take at face value what the OP said, then what he lost before he made 32red aware of his gambling problem should be money lost and never returned to the OP.

However, no matter what spin you put on it, once 32red was aware this player had problems (first via chat then via email), the account should have been closed forthwith and he should not have been able to make further deposits. Those deposits should be returned.

That is aside from the fact that the OP needs help with his problem and should share some responsibility too. But that doesn't stop 32red being responsible too.

I asked another casino to close my account permanently (not because of gambling problems) and 10 minutes later it was done. No questions asked just a simple reply email it was done.

That is how you run a proper casino.

i read and reread the email he sent,in my eyes its a desparate plea to have his money returned only or else his life is ruined(which i could relate to),i read that if 32red refunds his money he will do them a favour by allowing them to close his account.
nowhere does he admit he is a PROBLEM gambler,compulsive yes,addicted yes.
its soley sent to plea for a refund because of a bad night.

i cant comment on the live chat because its not there,but should a live chat graduate have the power to shut out his/her employers income based on a request from a user who is under duress,obviously due to a large loss incurred just prior..and who also may return the next day accusing the chat graduate that they misunderstood and why the fuck is my account closed?Sorry but that pressure and accountability should not have to be endured,unless thier salary and training befits a psychologist.

This ukcc that you english have need to implement a system for online casinos whereby if someone excludes themselves from a casino because they have a problem, and cant help themselves then banning yourself at one casino,bans you from the whole fucking lot that this organisation oversees,until thats done it bloody obvious self banning at one casino, is in no way what so ever helping a problem gambler end his/her addiction.Only at that ONE casino,well fuck me problem gamblers werent born yesterday and a few clicks later with your new welcome bonus pack,it starts again.Until that happens its fraud city played by both sides

 

[interlog]

i read and reread the email he sent,in my eyes its a desparate plea to have his money returned only or else his life is ruined(which i could relate to),i read that if 32red refunds his money he will do them a favour by allowing them to close his account.
nowhere does he admit he is a PROBLEM gambler,compulsive yes,addicted yes.
its soley sent to plea for a refund because of a bad night

Semantics. That email should have resulted in an immediate closure of the account.

Don't also forget the chat he had prior to the email.

If I ran a casino, after this email and chat I would treat this customer as "trouble" and would not want to deal with him. That is beside the fact that that email alone has all signs of a problem gambler and his account should be treated as such - closed forever whether he likes it or not.

 

[Harry_BKK]

I see we are "beamed" back to April 2016.

The latest LCCP came into effect on 6th April 2017 and the text has been changed, see highlighted section. How 32RED are still operating with only one part of that is certainly debatable.



The sections relating to this can be read here, starting page 49, particularly interesting is section 3.5.4, paragraph 5d:

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This SE business is getting "messier" by the day!

 

[Jasminebed]

The plea for the refund should have been rejected, nor should he been offered a goodwill chip for his losses.

But the email clearly asked for the account to be closed forever, and stated both in the opening and closing that he was a compulsive and addicted gambler.

This should have lead to immediately putting a SE in place.

Deposits subsequent to this must be returned, if the dates are accurate, and the OP has not left out anything else.

You want to know why the same guy keeps having the same issues? He's a compulsive, degenerate, out of control addict. I'm not trying to shame you hypeamg, you have an illness and know it.

You should be glad you are dealing with 32Red.

It's actually a good thing for you that you will have to wait during an investigation. This gives you a great chance to have a little detox time, to put a plan in place with your bank to block gambling, make monies inaccessible, get yourself to a meeting and make and keep a psychiatric appointment. I know it will be difficult, go by ambulance if you have to, as I think you are at quite a bit of risk right now, and might benefit from a change in medication.

Self-exclude at more casinos. Attend a GA meeting, or at least phone and talk, and join an online support group.

You are a smart guy, and your past losses are just that, losses. You made it once, you can make it again.

I've been critical of how 32Red's SE policy is handles in the past, and here we have a case where the player does compy and somehow it does not get actioned on properly. This should be a good incentive to re-think how you handle them 32Red.

 

[Deeplay]

Thing is they are multiple issues here which have come into play.

It highlights 32reds inept and possibly in breech of the UKGC terms SE/RS settings. It should always have been a 1 or 2 click operation. Same as the likes of Trada, Royalpand, VS and many others do.

Then the OP desperate to claw back losses. Clearly a person who needs to get to grips with his addiction. Personally paying him back wont help. He will gamble it all away again. And I dont wanna see him paid actually as I think he is playing the system (probably not a popular view here but there you go) he should suck up the losses and start to get to grips with this.

Then finally just how much the UKGC Have made a mess of this , not making clear cut rules with ZERO ability to maneuver left or right. It should have been set so you are either compliant or you are not. Yet still we has this grey area which has given birth to a while new industry of the SE hunters (same as in the past we had the bonus / advantage play bonus hunters)

The casinos that do not have a clear cut easy to system for a player to be in FULL control of there own experience and the UKGC are responsible for this mess. And until it is properly addressed (I doubt anyone at UKGC HQ is listening) we will continue to see this kind of thing happening.

If it is foul play by 32red then woe unto them, but honestly a company as big as 32red should know better that to even have the remote possibility of opening themselves up to this kind of bullshit.

Bad all round.

Finally to the OP he may think im bashing him. Im not I actually feel sorry for the guy, but he is not helping himself and until he does he will continue to loose his shirt and probably every thing else. Why do I know that ? cause one time way back I was him almost! .......

 

[interlog]

I see we are "beamed" back to April 2016.

The latest LCCP came into effect on 6th April 2017 and the text has been changed, see highlighted section. How 32RED are still operating with only one part of that is certainly debatable.

View attachment 79904

The sections relating to this can be read here, starting page 49:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

This SE business is getting "messier" by the day!

So, taking what the OP said:

When I spoke to the operator on live chat, I made them aware I had a gambling problem and told them I needed to self-exclude immediately. At the time I got quite upset and angry because they told me the only way they could do this was on email, and this was after I spent 20 minutes on the website trying to find out how to self-exclude within the my account settings without any joy.

as granted, then 32red should do the right thing and refund the £25k.

 

[danchop]

have any of you accessed the 32 red website in the last 24 hours before pressing keys and had a look for yourselves?

 

[interlog]

Thing is they are multiple issues here which have come into play.

It highlights 32reds inept and possibly in breech of the UKGC terms SE/RS settings. It should always have been a 1 or 2 click operation. Same as the likes of Trada, Royalpand, VS and many others do.

Then the OP desperate to claw back losses. Clearly a person who needs to get to grips with his addiction. Personally paying him back wont help. He will gamble it all away again. And I dont wanna see him paid actually as I think he is playing the system (probably not a popular view here but there you go) he should suck up the losses and start to get to grips with this.

Then finally just how much the UKGC Have made a mess of this , not making clear cut rules with ZERO ability to maneuver left or right. It should have been set so you are either compliant or you are not. Yet still we has this grey area which has given birth to a while new industry of the SE hunters (same as in the past we had the bonus / advantage play bonus hunters)

The casinos that do not have a clear cut easy to system for a player to be in FULL control of there own experience and the UKGC are responsible for this mess. And until it is properly addressed (I doubt anyone at UKGC HQ is listening) we will continue to see this kind of thing happening.

If it is foul play by 32red then woe unto them, but honestly a company as big as 32red should know better that to even have the remote possibility of opening themselves up to this kind of bullshit.

Bad all round.

Finally to the OP he may think im bashing him. Im not I actually feel sorry for the guy, but he is not helping himself and until he does he will continue to loose his shirt and probably every thing else. Why do I know that ? cause one time way back I was him almost! .......

But the new rules (as stated by Harry) have made it a little easier for the punter because a simple contact with customer services (that he did via chat) should have resulted in no further deposits. The punter doesn't have to use the online facility irrespective how easy or difficult that is to find at a casino.

Refunding the £25k will indeed most probably result in it being spunked away at another casino by the OP but that is not the point here. The point here is the lack of action 32Red appears to have taken. And for that they ought to pay.

All of this, of course, that there is no more to this that we are not aware of.

 

[Deeplay]

But the new rules (as stated by Harry) have made it a little easier for the punter because a simple contact with customer services (that he did via chat) should have resulted in no further deposits. The punter doesn't have to use the online facility irrespective how easy or difficult that is to find at a casino.

Refunding the £25k will indeed most probably result in it being spunked away at another casino by the OP but that is not the point here. The point here is the lack of action 32Red appears to have taken. And for that they ought to pay.

All of this, of course, that there is no more to this that we are not aware of.

Yup agreed .... and 32red should have it easy right there to SE without even the need to go through support. But they dont ... its a mess. As for if anything should be refunded or not im going wait to see what 32red have to say on this. Call me a skeptic but I seen it too many times where we see only one side of the story which many fall for only to find out in the end the full picture of what was a bucket of swill and BS.

 

[Harry_BKK]

have any of you accessed the 32 red website in the last 24 hours before pressing keys and had a look for yourselves?

I went through the process until this step. Last year it was leading to the request of the SE form which would be sent to the email registered with 32RED but not the actual activation of the SE. TBH, didn't have the "guts" to click on "here" to continue as 32RED is my one and only place I play download MG games. Hence, I do not know if the next step is now indeed activating the SE. Anyone who wants to try?

 

[interlog]

i cant comment on the live chat because its not there,but should a live chat graduate have the power to shut out his/her employers income based on a request from a user who is under duress,obviously due to a large loss incurred just prior..and who also may return the next day accusing the chat graduate that they misunderstood and why the fuck is my account closed?Sorry but that pressure and accountability should not have to be endured,unless thier salary and training befits a psychologist.

It is simple, punter says he has a gambling problem and wants to self exclude / close account then just press that button. If the punter complains afterwards about it, then tough shit.

We're talking about a multi billion pound industry here and they should and ought to provide correct training to their staff and pay them appropriate wages. If they don't do this, then it will only result in cases such as these which could in the long run ruin the Company, based on reputation alone (if the media gets hold of stories such as these).

Edit: I did the same at another casino, asked for the account to be closed which was done immediately. Regretted it afterwards and asked for it to be reopened only to be told no can do.

 

[nutnut]

i am going to ask you one serious question only,which day were you on really bad drugs?was it today with the above post or was it 6th of june when this comment was aimed at the same op in his previous thread?im hoping bad drugs is the case because schizophrenia is a serious mental health issue......

Quote Originally Posted by nutnut
You don't deserve a penny back, I hope you get nothing. You knew full well you was excluded yet YOU decided to sign up, YOU decided to deposit and because you lost you KNEW you was entitled to the money back.

I would be embarrassed to make this thread if I was you, but dignity and self respect doesn't seem to matter to you.

Everyone has problems in life, it is up to you to get them sorted. If you had won you would have been screaming to be paid, I do not like casinos but in cases like this I side with them.

You can band about different insults or mental illness at me, but I choose to react different to his thread as he clearly does have a problem, the thread you refer too I felt your typical "lost my money, I want it back" thread.
I can be as harsh as anyone on people like this. But in his case, he asked TWICE to be banned, they did not so he is owed back his money. Simple!

As for you, you have spent the day and evening posting with anger and resentment at the opening post. you clearly live a unhappy life if you get off on putting this guy down all evening. So crawl back under your rock.

 

[nutnut]

It is simple, punter says he has a gambling problem and wants to self exclude / close account then just press that button. If the punter complains afterwards about it, then tough shit.

We're talking about a multi billion pound industry here and they should and ought to provide correct training to their staff and pay them appropriate wages. If they don't do this, then it will only result in cases such as these which could in the long run ruin the Company, based on reputation alone (if the media gets hold of stories such as these).

He is clearly a troll, I wish people would not engage with him.

It is as simple as you said. No debating about it.

 

[Deeplay]

I went through the process until this step. Last year it was leading to the request of the SE form which would be sent to the email registered with 32RED but not the actual activation of the SE. TBH, didn't have the "guts" to click on "here" to continue as 32RED is my one and only place I play download MG games. Hence, I do not know if the next step is now indeed activating the SE. Anyone who wants to try?

View attachment 79905

I would ..... as I dont play often at 32red .... but ..... I still like to keep my account open ..... as every so often I do give them a few deposits. What indeed lays behind that door ? easy to find out ask Mark 32red he will clear it up

 

[danchop]

Semantics. That email should have resulted in an immediate closure of the account.

Don't also forget the chat he had prior to the email.

If I ran a casino, after this email and chat I would treat this customer as "trouble" and would not want to deal with him. That is beside the fact that that email alone has all signs of a problem gambler and his account should be treated as such - closed forever whether he likes it or not.

Well this is where you and i disagree,if you were cs youd close his account because it certainly appears hes about to lose his house etc.
I would on the other hand not close the account because its main focus is to give an upset customer a break in life and refund his loss,i would reply however and wait for his response to that.
We still dont have the missing link or links though and the fact 32red has a self exclusion tool(how long its been there i dont know)
One thing is for certain,if he was about to lose the house on the 6th june over a lost 19000 grand,the 25000 grand he lost a week or so later,was what?like wasnt he spose to be broke a week or so ago?
well he fooled you i guess

 

[interlog]

Well this is where you and i disagree,if you were cs youd close his account because it certainly appears hes about to lose his house etc.
I would on the other hand not close the account because its main focus is to give an upset customer a break in life and refund his loss,i would reply however and wait for his response to that.
We still dont have the missing link or links though and the fact 32red has a self exclusion tool(how long its been there i dont know)
One thing is for certain,if he was about to lose the house on the 6th june over a lost 19000 grand,the 25000 grand he lost a week or so later,was what?like wasnt he spose to be broke a week or so ago?
well he fooled you i guess

He asked for the £19k back. That should have resulted in a simple "sorry, no can do and see you later alligator you aren't playing at our casino any longer; go and seek help for the gambling problem you admitted to having, here are the links to some charities that can help"

But that is not what happened isn't it. They let him deposit some weeks later.

And that is the point that you appear to be missing.

Forget about how he got the money and that he has to share some responsibility too. This is about a casino letting the OP deposit when according to their license they shouldn't have let him do.