32Red Allowed me to gamble after asking for self exclusion.

[hypeamg]

Dear Casinomeister Members,

I would really like you help with something please if you wouldn't mind. First off I will start by letting you know that I have a severe gambling addiction which is mainly routed in the fact that I have panic disorder and agoraphobia meaning I can't leave the house. Unfortunately to try and escape my problems, I gamble.

On the 6th of June I sent 32Red a long email outlining the fact I had a gambling addiction, and that I have a huge problem. I basically asked them to refund deposits, and I asked them to close my account on live chat for which they told me that they couldn't on live chat. So I emailed basically telling them that I cannot control my gambling and begging them for the money back. Since then they have allowed me to deposit a further 25,000 even though they were full aware of the fact I have a huge problem. I know many will say it's your fault deal with it, but as a human being who has had a rough time in life unfortunately something just isn't right with me to the point where I can't control it, similar to a drug addict I suppose. Ultimately I am a nice guy, I work hard, have never done anything wrong in my life apart from this and it's just been a way to cope with my problems.

I have launched a complaint with the gambling commission but I wanted to get some advice on where I stand legally with this. As 32Red have an email directly from me outlining the fact i have a severe gambling addiction that I cannot control, and the fact I asked them to self exclude me on live chat but they didn't do I have any grounds on this under player protection? It's clear unfortunately that they were well aware of this and have since taken a further 25,000 from me.

Any advice would be hugely appreciated?

 

[lockinlove]

It sounds awful.

I think everyone will agree that they should have closed your account when you told live chat you had a problem. Why cant live chat close your account btw? Every other casino lets you. It seems they are making it very hard for the player to self exclude.

Assuming the above is true. Shame on 32red for taking advantage of a clearly gambling ill person when you were practically begging them for their help.

I know people will say that you cant have your money back because if you won, you would have cashed out. Basically freerolling the casino. However, I think that is 32reds fault and should refund the $25,000 after stating you had a sickness.

There is a rep here. I suggest you speak to him and let him look at your case. https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/mark_32red.html

 

[danchop]

they didnt take,you gave.....if you have that big of a gambling problem and know it,self excluding at a certain casino is pointless and fruitless,its a half hearted attempt by your part.
Because you can easily open a fresh account at any other of the million casinos online,you should if you were serious contacted your bank to limit or prevent such online transactions..
thats what i think anyway

 

[dunover]

It sounds awful.

I think everyone will agree that they should have closed your account when you told live chat you had a problem. Why cant live chat close your account btw? Every other casino lets you. It seems they are making it very hard for the player to self exclude.

Assuming the above is true. Shame on 32red for taking advantage of a clearly gambling ill person when you were practically begging them for their help.

I know people will say that you cant have your money back because if you won, you would have cashed out. Basically freerolling the casino. However, I think that is 32reds fault and should refund the $25,000 after stating you had a sickness.

There is a rep here. I suggest you speak to him and let him look at your case. https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/mark_32red.html

Yeah, but he wouldn't have. He'd have carried on until busting. Addicts don't win money, they simply win the means for their next gambling session. This is why it's SO important to have instant self-set SE and not this 1-3 day BS delay you get with the rare sites that do this like 32 Red.

Taking the OP at face value he picked the wrong site to SE from instantly. Now this is why the UKGC has SE rules in place but a few casinos choose to use the imprecise wording to not have instant self-set.

Naturally this will cream in large amounts from problem gamblers, as there they are doing their bollocks, out of control, only half way down the credit card limit or bank overdraft and desperately seeking to stop only to find delay and obstruction. So they carry on until their funds and self-esteem are destroyed and hating themselves and the site which wouldn't let them stop when they needed to.

If I were the OP I would make an official complaint to the UKGC if he has the record of the sent e-mail and chat etc. We've seen them smash Cassava for millions in refunds for taking bets from SE players, maybe one day those sites that have obstructed SE could be called to account for deposits made and lost after the first problem gambling communication from the player. Unfortunately problem gamblers are a significant source of profit for online casinos, as they seldom attempt to withdraw and deposit high amounts to boot.

 

[danchop]

Yeah, but he wouldn't have. He'd have carried on until busting. Addicts don't win money, they simply win the means for their next gambling session. This is why it's SO important to have instant self-set SE and not this 1-3 day BS delay you get with the rare sites that do this like 32 Red.

Taking the OP at face value he picked the wrong site to SE from instantly. Now this is why the UKGC has SE rules in place but a few casinos choose to use the imprecise wording to not have instant self-set.

Naturally this will cream in large amounts from problem gamblers, as there they are doing their bollocks, out of control, only half way down the credit card limit or bank overdraft and desperately seeking to stop only to find delay and obstruction. So they carry on until their funds and self-esteem are destroyed and hating themselves and the site which wouldn't let them stop when they needed to.

If I were the OP I would make an official complaint to the UKGC if he has the record of the sent e-mail and chat etc. We've seen them smash Cassava for millions in refunds for taking bets from SE players, maybe one day those sites that have obstructed SE could be called to account for deposits made and lost after the first problem gambling communication from the player. Unfortunately problem gamblers are a significant source of profit for online casinos, as they seldom attempt to withdraw and deposit high amounts to boot.

Still pointless as far as i can see..
If im a problem gambler,even if a casino has decent self exclusion facility in place and easy to implement,my addiction will just force me to use another casino, which is just as easy to do.
The source is your bank,if your serious talk to them and have stops put in place

 

[interlog]

Still pointless as far as i can see..
If im a problem gambler,even if a casino has decent self exclusion facility in place and easy to implement,my addiction will just force me to use another casino, which is just as easy to do.
The source is your bank,if your serious talk to them and have stops put in place

Whilst I see your point, you're missing the other point made that casinos should share some responsibility as well in accordance with the license that they operate under. The minute the OP told them he had a gambling problem and wanted to self exclude it should have happened there and then - no excuses. No further funds should have been accepted by the casino.

For that reason, a refund of £25,000 should happen immediately. Refund of funds prior to that not as the casino wasn't aware of the gambling problem then.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Getting a gambling addiction under control is not that easy. Problem gamblers need help from various angles:
- casinos, betting places - SE procedures
- bank, accounts, cards - limits or handing over control to a trusted person
- GA or other organizations - psychological help
- ...list not complete

Sure, ultimately, it is down to the gambler as to how much he really wants to get his addiction under control but the chances of being successful depends on more than one factor. One which was singled out by the licensing authorities are the betting operators themselves, hence we have today the whole RG controls.

The UKGC specifically asks operators to train their staff in recognizing problem gamblers and to take pro-active actions. Further, the soon the SE issue comes up, they have the duty to inform the player about the available RG options, SE procedure, consequences of a SE and to direct him/her to organizations that are offering help. This is clearly written in the latest LCCP from the UKGC.

We all know that 32RED had a self-set RG console in place that included SE and decided to remove it last year to replace it with the email to support. This certainly acts as a delay in having the SE activated, a fact which we hotly debated last year. What I do not understand is why 32RED is not putting a temporary block on an account where SE is being debated or asked for until a final decision is made by the player. That would inhibit such cases like this OP.

However, knowing 32RED and Mark, I am sure they will try their best to solve this amicably.

 

[danchop]

Whilst I see your point, you're missing the other point made that casinos should share some responsibility as well in accordance with the license that they operate under. The minute the OP told them he had a gambling problem and wanted to self exclude it should have happened there and then - no excuses. No further funds should have been accepted by the casino.

For that reason, a refund of £25,000 should happen immediately. Refund of funds prior to that not as the casino wasn't aware of the gambling problem then.

yes i do see the casinos responsibility also,but it doesnt actually work to prevent/or cure a problem gambler unless self exclusion includes your ip address at every casino availible,not just one casino or others in its group.I also see how casinos abuse this to thier favour as well.I still believe the onus is on the player to put a stop to the source feeding his/her addiction,not the outlet.
Although going by the OPs previous thread about a different casino and self exclusion,i believe he tried it on,knowing he had a chance to gamble free money in the advent that he lost

 

[Harry_BKK]

Agree with danchop. We always have to take these SE stories with a grain of salt as we have plenty of fraudsters trying to freeroll casinos.

Not implying that the OP is one but i would like to hear him telling us what else he has done since his last thread to get his addiction under control.

Seems that he has access to large amounts of money, which so far he has not given up control of. That would be the first step.

 

[redsfan]

Sorry but I am seeing a trend. You claimed a similar problem at the beginning of June with MT casinos.

Think you need to close your funding methods down and have your bank ban deposits to Gambling Sites (Very easy to do)

 

[dunover]

yes i do see the casinos responsibility also,but it doesnt actually work to prevent/or cure a problem gambler unless self exclusion includes your ip address at every casino availible,not just one casino or others in its group.I also see how casinos abuse this to thier favour as well.I still believe the onus is on the player to put a stop to the source feeding his/her addiction,not the outlet.
Although going by the OPs previous thread about a different casino and self exclusion,i believe he tried it on,knowing he had a chance to gamble free money in the advent that he lost

Yes, indeed it's a 2-way thing. The player has to take some responsibility but when they are in 'the zone' at one particular site they need the instant escape route which the UKGC rules appear to demand. The OP has an issue regarding self-control and no single casino should be able to exploit it although as people have said they will simply go somewhere else. So as long as the individual casino does it's job then that's all that can be reasonably expected of them. If SE'd at one license and still being able to gamble (i.e. the EMSEB issue) then bets should be voided anyway and deposits returned when checked.

In the case of 32red's group of sites, I'd be surprised if they had gambled at another one under the license as 32Red would block the ability to deposit at all of them, that's one they do well and I can't recall EMSEB-type issues with them happening before. Whatever the motives of the OP, it still sucks that they can't exclude at the moment of panic and I'm surprised this is still occurring today TBH.

 

[hypeamg]

I am not a fraudster, yes with MT it was a similar issue but I found the deposits were dated forward so in essence they were for transactions before my self exclusion period. I am not a free-roller, or a fraudster, I am a very honest hard working man with a few problems in life that's all, gambling being one of them.

 

[dunover]

I am not a fraudster, yes with MT it was a similar issue but I found the deposits were dated forward so in essence they were for transactions before my self exclusion period. I am not a free-roller, or a fraudster, I am a very honest hard working man with a few problems in life that's all, gambling being one of them.

In that case did you make that clear on the MT Secure thread you made? That it was a case of 'no foul' on their part? It's ethical posting which we like on CM - casinos get all sorts of complaints and accusations flung at them so when it turns out they're in the clear or have resolved something nicely it's appropriate the complainant should confirm this.....

 

[hypeamg]

In that case did you make that clear on the MT Secure thread you made? That it was a case of 'no foul' on their part? It's ethical posting which we like on CM - casinos get all sorts of complaints and accusations flung at them so when it turns out they're in the clear or have resolved something nicely it's appropriate the complainant should confirm this.....

Sure, I will do that today no problem.

 

[Nate]

Sorry to hear of your issues.

Do you have evidence of explicitly stating that you have a problem on live chat BEFORE you went ahead and lost another 25k?

The thing is its easy to go ahead to live chat and say - 'close my account'. It could be for a variety of reasons and the casino may try to retain business.

But if you EXPLICITLY stated that you have a problem and want a self exclusion, there shouldn't even be a discussion over this.

Edit: Was this email that you sent BEFORE you deposited and did you receive a reply to it?

Nate

 

[hypeamg]

Thank you Nate, that's very kind.

So the details are as follows...

June 6th, I lost £19,000 on 32Red. In a frantic panic realising what I had done when basically I had lost most of my savings I fired up live chat and spoke to a 32Red operator directly, for which I requested the live chat transcript for yesterday - they are sending it me apparently!?

When I spoke to the operator on live chat, I made them aware I had a gambling problem and told them I needed to self-exclude immediately. At the time I got quite upset and angry because they told me the only way they could do this was on email, and this was after I spent 20 minutes on the website trying to find out how to self-exclude within the my account settings without any joy.

So following this I emailed them, which I am very embarrassed about what I wrote but I was highly distressed at the time as you can imagine, this is included within this email, however all personal details are redacted obviously.

Subsequently I received no reply, and was able to deposit...

June 17th: £1,500
June 18th: £1,500
June 19th: £2,000
June 26th: £1,500
June 26th: £2,500
July 3rd: £16,000

I haven't slept all night, it's 10am here now and I am just sat here not really knowing what to do trying to stop shaking. I have emailed the UKGC and 32Red directly and made them aware of everything, and I just wish they would of self excluded my account when I asked them on live chat, and then again when I told them on email. I clearly told them I have a massive problem as you can see and I came clean about everything having realised what I had just done chasing losses, which I always do - I also told them that it doesn't matter if I win (and it doesn't) because of my illness it just all goes straight back in I just can't stop, it's sickening and it is completely destroying my life. I am probably going to lose my house (well definitely) if I can't get the deposits back from June 17th onwards. I know I am to blame also but I find it very hard, and as you can see I asked them on numerous occasions but they failed to protect me at all as a player and either unknowingly and knowingly took advantage of my desperation and my illness.

Stephanie is the club rouge contact at 32Red.

Finally — I may look like a degenerate gambler but I am a good person, I paid £4,500 for my friends dog to have an life threatening operation which ultimately saved his life 2-3 months ago without letting her owe me anything, so I do have a good heart I just try and find a way out of my other problems through gambling unfortunately. Just hope something can be done to help me here really, I probably deserved it but then having had a horrific few years, divorce, agoraphobia, panic disorder, etc etc... just find it very hard to even get through the day at the moment.

 

[DreamRJ]

Edit: Was this email that you sent BEFORE you deposited and did you receive a reply to it?

Well this is the point i am questioning too about the OP first post.

It was very vague in detailing what and when was in the email and when it was sent.

If the OP can give details and also provide prove that he sent the email days or weeks before he then lost a further 25K then ok then that is all fine and 32red are to blame.

But on the hand that if the email stated he didnt want to self exclude and was just emailing them to have a rant or moan and to explain his situation and didnt exactly say self exclude me, then that is also another thing altogether.

You could easily write 10 emails and each email could mean 10 different things with the way you word things, and without a specific sentence like "Please Self Exclude Me" then that wouldnt exactly make 32red support act upon it. We also do not know if 32red replied and if the OP replied and then changed his mind about the self exclusion, which i have also done over the years when i asked for a closing of my account, then when i get an email back to confirm i then email back cos i get the urge again to gamble so i say no, keep it open in my reply.

I mean i am also confused how u could have that type of money anyway if you say you suffer from things and you cant leave the house then where do you get money from? are you working from home??

I am not saying i do not sympathise with you because I think a lot of gamblers have anxiety issues, it is common and known as fact that addictive gamblers usually have anxiety disorders.

Maybe your best option is to try and get help for your anxiety, then get someone you can trust to control your bank account and they only give you what you need in cash.

Then once you have the help for anxiety and you feel you can start to take control back, then you could ask your trusted person to give you your bank control back.

I wish you all the best, but i am not on either side on this one until there is more evidence from both sides.

but best of luck

 

[hypeamg]

Well this is the point i am questioning too about the OP first post.

It was very vague in detailing what and when was in the email and when it was sent.

If the OP can give details and also provide prove that he sent the email days or weeks before he then lost a further 25K then ok then that is all fine and 32red are to blame.

But on the hand that if the email stated he didnt want to self exclude and was just emailing them to have a rant or moan and to explain his situation and didnt exactly say self exclude me, then that is also another thing altogether.

You could easily write 10 emails and each email could mean 10 different things with the way you word things, and without a specific sentence like "Please Self Exclude Me" then that wouldnt exactly make 32red support act upon it. We also do not know if 32red replied and if the OP replied and then changed his mind about the self exclusion, which i have also done over the years when i asked for a closing of my account, then when i get an email back to confirm i then email back cos i get the urge again to gamble so i say no, keep it open in my reply.

I mean i am also confused how u could have that type of money anyway if you say you suffer from things and you cant leave the house then where do you get money from? are you working from home??

I am not saying i do not sympathise with you because I think a lot of gamblers have anxiety issues, it is common and known as fact that addictive gamblers usually have anxiety disorders.

Maybe your best option is to try and get help for your anxiety, then get someone you can trust to control your bank account and they only give you what you need in cash.

Then once you have the help for anxiety and you feel you can start to take control back, then you could ask your trusted person to give you your bank control back.

I wish you all the best, but i am not on either side on this one until there is more evidence from both sides.

but best of luck

I have a technology company I run from home and have done for around 7 years. Fortunately it's pretty successful but it's also meant I have got into debt as you can imagine. I've included the evidence above.

 

[Jono777]

Whilst I genuinely feel for the OP, I do not feel deposits should be refunded.

Sure all accounts should be closed to stop this ever happening again but the horse has bolted now. A very expensive lesson to be learnt but lets look forward and take action, little point in looking back.

I feel if refunds were to be made they are simply a source for more gambling elsewhere.

If 32 Red with their good nature decide a show of good will is in order then good on them but I do not feel they should HAVE to do anything.

Yes I have a history of backing these guys up, but as problematical as things are the OP didn't ask for account closure so IMO they haven't failed to fulfill any player requests.

Could you picture many other casinos refunding this sort of amount, I don't think so, I only feel due to their excellent reputation that these trains of thought about refunds or parts of are being suggested.

I may sound a bit harsh and if I have strayed from my 'normal' stance on this one but seen this too many times and its unfair to target the 'good guy' to make an example of in 32 Red.

Hope others see my point of view on this one.

 

[hypeamg]

Whilst I genuinely feel for the OP, I do not feel deposits should be refunded.

Sure all accounts should be closed to stop this ever happening again but the horse has bolted now. A very expensive lesson to be learnt but lets look forward and take action, little point in looking back.

I feel if refunds were to be made they are simply a source for more gambling elsewhere.

If 32 Red with their good nature decide a show of good will is in order then good on them but I do not feel they should HAVE to do anything.

Yes I have a history of backing these guys up, but as problematical as things are the OP didn't ask for account closure so IMO they haven't failed to fulfill any player requests.

Could you picture many other casinos refunding this sort of amount, I don't think so, I only feel due to their excellent reputation that these trains of thought about refunds or parts of are being suggested.

I may sound a bit harsh and if I have strayed from my 'normal' stance on this one but seen this too many times and its unfair to target the 'good guy' to make an example of in 32 Red.

Hope others see my point of view on this one.

If you look at my above post you'll see in the email I asked for account closure, forever.

 

[Jono777]

If you look at my above post you'll see in the email I asked for account closure, forever.

I must have missed that in your OP.

I've made my point now, Will stop out of this thread from now on and wish you the best of luck, seriously I mean it

 

[DreamRJ]

Thank you Nate, that's very kind.

So the details are as follows...

June 6th, I lost £19,000 on 32Red. In a frantic panic realising what I had done when basically I had lost most of my savings I fired up live chat and spoke to a 32Red operator directly, for which I requested the live chat transcript for yesterday - they are sending it me apparently!?

When I spoke to the operator on live chat, I made them aware I had a gambling problem and told them I needed to self-exclude immediately. At the time I got quite upset and angry because they told me the only way they could do this was on email, and this was after I spent 20 minutes on the website trying to find out how to self-exclude within the my account settings without any joy.

So following this I emailed them, which I am very embarrassed about what I wrote but I was highly distressed at the time as you can imagine, this is included within this email, however all personal details are redacted obviously.

Subsequently I received no reply, and was able to deposit...

June 17th: £1,500
June 18th: £1,500
June 19th: £2,000
June 26th: £1,500
June 26th: £2,500
July 3rd: £16,000

I haven't slept all night, it's 10am here now and I am just sat here not really knowing what to do trying to stop shaking. I have emailed the UKGC and 32Red directly and made them aware of everything, and I just wish they would of self excluded my account when I asked them on live chat, and then again when I told them on email. I clearly told them I have a massive problem as you can see and I came clean about everything having realised what I had just done chasing losses, which I always do - I also told them that it doesn't matter if I win (and it doesn't) because of my illness it just all goes straight back in I just can't stop, it's sickening and it is completely destroying my life. I am probably going to lose my house (well definitely) if I can't get the deposits back from June 17th onwards. I know I am to blame also but I find it very hard, and as you can see I asked them on numerous occasions but they failed to protect me at all as a player and either unknowingly and knowingly took advantage of my desperation and my illness.

Stephanie is the club rouge contact at 32Red.

Finally — I may look like a degenerate gambler but I am a good person, I paid £4,500 for my friends dog to have an life threatening operation which ultimately saved his life 2-3 months ago without letting her owe me anything, so I do have a good heart I just try and find a way out of my other problems through gambling unfortunately. Just hope something can be done to help me here really, I probably deserved it but then having had a horrific few years, divorce, agoraphobia, panic disorder, etc etc... just find it very hard to even get through the day at the moment.

hmmm ok,

So email was sent on june 6th.

So as i said above in my first post in this thread. You didnt specifically say "SELF EXCLUDE" you said close my account. That has completely 2 different meanings. I have closed my 32red account many many many times over the years, a self exclusion is something that can not be undone until a set timeframe has passed.

Your completely Misconstruing your wording completely to make it out that 32red is in the wrong. I also do not know if they did reply to you back, but maybe the emails never got to Stephanie? Why did you not just sent the email to normal support instead? then you would have gotten responses pretty fast.

I am sorry you have lost all that money. But we all lose money and i feel in this instance that 32red are not in the wrong because as i said you didnt specifically say self exclude in your 6th june email, you said close my account.

I wish you the best of luck and i am sorry i really am.

 

[Jono777]

Edit: Quoted own message instead of edit

Ignore*

 

[hypeamg]

hmmm ok,

So email was sent on june 6th.

So as i said above in my first post in this thread. You didnt specifically say "SELF EXCLUDE" you said close my account. That has completely 2 different meanings. I have closed my 32red account many many many times over the years, a self exclusion is something that can not be undone until a set timeframe has passed.

Your completely Misconstruing your wording completely to make it out that 32red is in the wrong. I also do not know if they did reply to you back, but maybe the emails never got to Stephanie? Why did you not just sent the email to normal support instead? then you would have gotten responses pretty fast.

I am sorry you have lost all that money. But we all lose money and i feel in this instance that 32red are not in the wrong because as i said you didnt specifically say self exclude in your 6th june email, you said close my account.

I wish you the best of luck and i am sorry i really am.

I said "self-exclude" on the live chat to the operator minutes before sending the email for which I have requested the transcript for. I was in a complete panic and surely that coupled with the email is enough to get me self-excluded?

 

[danchop]

If you look at my above post you'll see in the email I asked for account closure, forever.

Far out last night must have been a FTW nightmare,i didnt realise that larger deposit could be taken out or deposited in one hit,but then i dont know english banking rules..
It does appear youve asked them through that email,BUT are you saying that email was never responded to?at all?