32Red Allowed me to gamble after asking for self exclusion.

[DreamRJ]

I think what everyone should do is take away everything and look at just the responsible gaming part. Whether there was sneakiness or not.

The player told live chat he has serious gambling issues. He sent an email stating he had a serious gambling sickness. 32red read these chats and emails and did absolutely nothing.

Do you know how many accredited casino's I could go to and say even half of this and my account would be instantly closed? I would say almost all of them. I would know, trust me. I have said the words..I need a break im tired of gambling. And bang support closed my account and told me I am now excluded from their casino. I wasnt even saying anything about a problem but they took it this way. Its happened a couple times a couple years ago.


I feel as though some people are holding onto what 32red used to be and also in the back of their mind thinking of the exceptional Mark.

What matters is this player showed every sign of what a sick gambler is and even plead for help and 32red turned their back on him and instead thought of the financial gain. Do you know what that is in words? Preying on the vulnerable. Its irresponsible but it also crosses a line.

I get why people want to defend the casino because if the player did find a loophole and know what they were doing, its wrong. But 32red is a company. A company in the gambling industry where people can lose their entire lives. This is why there are gambling commissions to oversee casino's to make sure they dont prey on the vulnerable and sick. 32red did exactly that.

They must return the $25,000.

And we all know that the player will take this money and gamble it somewhere else. But that's not our problem or anyone else's. 32red has to be held accountable and I would go as far to say I would like to see them fined for this type of behaviour. Its unacceptable.

@32red. You guys will always come ahead. Your slots are set at 88%-97%. You have every edge possible. Stop the nonsense. The delays in withdrawals, no more flushing, reducing bonuses and now preying on the vulnerable. What have you guys come to?

I am not disagreeing with your points you made.

But to be fair I am more waiting for Mark to respond with an update or outcome until i comment any further, as i said what i said already and that can not be undone now. I am still swayed in 32reds favour in light of what has been said and also what you have said and others. And i know casinos need to abide by rules and some do and some don't.

But in all fairness the OP has made it very clear they was aware of this self exclusion flaw not only in 32red but others. I just can not sway back into the players favour because of this fact.

I mean look as i said in previous posts, i too have asked 32red to close my account many many times over the years. And this was also before the UKGC forced casinos to get a UKGC license and abide by the new SE policies.

But 32red still do allow closing of accounts separately from SE closures. And you can get your account closed in 32red within minutes of going to live chat.

then as new management taken over they then made it so you had a confirmation email after you asked for your account closed via live chat to reply to confirm you still want it closed. And as i said a few times i did reply and said no dont close it. and others i did say close it.

So this is also a factor to take into account too in this case. The OP emailed them and spoke to them in live chat. Asked in email to close account forever. To which he should have got an email back asking to confirm it by replying yes close it or no dont close it. then it would have been closed. Then as i said it would then be upto the casino to enforce that sentence or make a note on the closed account, player asks that it may never be open ever again. Some casinos like i said in previous posts do abide and stick to a said note on the closed account, like mrgreen did and vera and john did for me and i have tried and failed over the last years to get them to reopen it, they just keep saying that the note i asked them to put on the account can not be ignored and we take it very seriously.

But as i said i have had a said note on my account at 32red as well a few times that also said forever, but 32red still used their discretion and allowed me back again upon asking.

So i am not saying 32red are right or wrong in the way they use their own discretion but closing of account is a completely different meaning to a self exclusion.

And because we have still yet to see that live chat session transcript we do not know if the OP did say self exclude me in that live chat session as we all know we have saw the email he wrote and sent, but we have not seen the replies if he got any or not. Or maybe he did and didn't realise and they went into junk folder. who knows. We just do not know why he didn't get any replies yet. And that is another question in itself. We do not know which email provider he uses. I know for a fact that if it is a Microsoft email address, some casinos emails do get filtered and blocked. That is why i now do not use live.com email because soo many casinos emails i was not receiving. So this could also be a factor in as to why he wasn't getting the emails from 32red. I do recall that i too stopped getting emails to my live.com email address a few years ago, and i never get any emails now either.

But still, lets just wait and see the outcome if Mark decides to post it

 

[lockinlove]

I am not disagreeing with your points you made.

But to be fair I am more waiting for Mark to respond with an update or outcome until i comment any further, as i said what i said already and that can not be undone now. I am still swayed in 32reds favour in light of what has been said and also what you have said and others. And i know casinos need to abide by rules and some do and some don't.

But in all fairness the OP has made it very clear they was aware of this self exclusion flaw not only in 32red but others. I just can not sway back into the players favour because of this fact.

I mean look as i said in previous posts, i too have asked 32red to close my account many many times over the years. And this was also before the UKGC forced casinos to get a UKGC license and abide by the new SE policies.

But 32red still do allow closing of accounts separately from SE closures. And you can get your account closed in 32red within minutes of going to live chat.

then as new management taken over they then made it so you had a confirmation email after you asked for your account closed via live chat to reply to confirm you still want it closed. And as i said a few times i did reply and said no dont close it. and others i did say close it.

So this is also a factor to take into account too in this case. The OP emailed them and spoke to them in live chat. Asked in email to close account forever. To which he should have got an email back asking to confirm it by replying yes close it or no dont close it. then it would have been closed. Then as i said it would then be upto the casino to enforce that sentence or make a note on the closed account, player asks that it may never be open ever again. Some casinos like i said in previous posts do abide and stick to a said note on the closed account, like mrgreen did and vera and john did for me and i have tried and failed over the last years to get them to reopen it, they just keep saying that the note i asked them to put on the account can not be ignored and we take it very seriously.

But as i said i have had a said note on my account at 32red as well a few times that also said forever, but 32red still used their discretion and allowed me back again upon asking.

So i am not saying 32red are right or wrong in the way they use their own discretion but closing of account is a completely different meaning to a self exclusion.

And because we have still yet to see that live chat session transcript we do not know if the OP did say self exclude me in that live chat session as we all know we have saw the email he wrote and sent, but we have not seen the replies if he got any or not. Or maybe he did and didn't realise and they went into junk folder. who knows. We just do not know why he didn't get any replies yet. And that is another question in itself. We do not know which email provider he uses. I know for a fact that if it is a Microsoft email address, some casinos emails do get filtered and blocked. That is why i now do not use live.com email because soo many casinos emails i was not receiving. So this could also be a factor in as to why he wasn't getting the emails from 32red. I do recall that i too stopped getting emails to my live.com email address a few years ago, and i never get any emails now either.

But still, lets just wait and see the outcome if Mark decides to post it

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I used the word forever with trada once when I had enough and that got me self excluded for life

 

[DreamRJ]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I used the word forever with trada once when I had enough and that got me self excluded for life

yes and as i said its the same for me at mrgreen, vera and john, and i also forgot to mention casumo too is now the same as mrgreen and vera and john with the same note. But your forgetting a closure is different to a SE.

SE expire after a set timeframe and is based on gambling issues.

Closures are based on other factors, not just gambling issue factors. yes they can be used in similar contexts, but they are still 2 completely different processes.

EDIT: I mean look, no casino is 100% perfect in every way, no casino have a 10/10 accreditation on CM either. every casino has at least 1 or more bad negative factors. Some obviously more than others. And i am not a fan of 32red myself as i have said in other threads. And in my opinion they shouldn't even be accredited because of the fact withdraws are very very slow compared to others. When withdraws speed are the main factor for many when choosing to play in a said casino these days. that in itself is enough in my eyes to take away 32reds accreditation until they make withdraws at weekend again and make them 10 times faster than they currently are.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Whatever might have happened in the end, I know 32RED has the integrity to do the right thing should they find out that they have been at fault in this case. Mistakes happen and so far 32RED has always acknowledged when it was the case. They will do a thorough investigation as to what was when said and draw a conclusion after seeing all the facts.

I am sitting on the fence right now, not siding with anyone and waiting to hear 32RED's side as it will always take two to "tango".

After all the deliberations in this and the other thread, the OP has still not mentioned a single word that he has a plan, or is making one, or whatever to get his issues, not just gambling, under control. What I do know though, is that heavily addicted gamblers will pull all stops when it comes to getting the hands on some cash. And in this case, it is a serious amount, not just pennies. Trust me, i have seen it all in the years i did voluntary work for one of those help organizations, and this is by far, very far actually, not the worst.

Having said that, the LCCP code was updated this year and includes now much more defined instructions on how to detect problem gambling, especially in paragraph "F". When I take this case and read all information from the OP, then all alarm bells should have gone off at 32RED when he chatted with a support officer and sent an email within an hour to them. Stephanie has been with 32RED for some time, hence, I would be surprised if she wouldn't have taken some action.

 

[DreamRJ]

Whatever might have happened in the end, I know 32RED has the integrity to do the right thing should they find out that they have been at fault in this case. Mistakes happen and so far 32RED has always acknowledged when it was the case. They will do a thorough investigation as to what was when said and draw a conclusion after seeing all the facts.

I am sitting on the fence right now, not siding with anyone and waiting to hear 32RED's side as it will always take two to "tango".

After all the deliberations in this and the other thread, the OP has still not mentioned a single word that he has a plan, or is making one, or whatever to get his issues, not just gambling, under control. What I do know though, is that heavily addicted gamblers will pull all stops when it comes to getting the hands on some cash. And in this case, it is a serious amount, not just pennies. Trust me, i have seen it all in the years i did voluntary work for one of those help organizations, and this is by far, very far actually, not the worst.

Having said that, the LCCP code was updated this year and includes now much more defined instructions on how to detect problem gambling. When I take this case and read all information from the OP, then all alarm bells should have gone off at 32RED when he chatted with a support officer and sent an email within an hour to them. Stephanie has been with 32RED for some time, hence, I would be surprised if she wouldn't have taken some action.

View attachment 79915

yep and like i said, maybe they did try contacting the OP and he never got the said emails. The way 32red work now is they do not act until they get a response and further correspondence from the player.

So maybe it is down to the fact that emails was not being received on the OP end so he couldn't reply to emails he didn't get. Because as i said, many casinos including 32red i no longer get emails from them, promotional or support emails. Via my live.com email address i used to use and do still have for some casinos. I just never got round to changing my email address in all those affected casinos including 32red to my gmail account.

So maybe it is just a case of this missing emails and 32red was acting, they was just not getting a response back to the emails they sent because the player was not getting those emails to reply back too

so if that is the case, it is not actually 32reds fault. Then you might ask why didn't 32red then try to call the player on his phone number. the response is, we do not know if the player had their phone number on the said account. And if the said phone number was outdated or not. We do not know they might have attempted to call the player by phone and couldn't get hold of him via phone either. As i said 32red usually do not act without speaking to the player first when it comes to closing of account issues anyway. Some casinos do act without any further correspondence but 32red do not.

 

[danchop]

i was willing to wait for the outcome but others are carrying on so im jumping back in..
i only made my first deposit at 32red last week so i can hardly be bias toward them
I easily found thier responsible gambling section and it seems well laid out,the self exclusion option,albeit im now made aware it breaches rules by having to go two steps?Well its one easy step to accidently hit max bet isnt it?2 steps would be fairer and eliminate debate.
The op goes to the trouble of emailing his vip manager late at night,who obviously wont see the email for ??i bet the se 2 step process required a lot less effort and gauranteed se within the hour.
We dont know yet how 32red has handled that email,when it was read or if it was read..The context of that email has major flaws and can only be seen as a manipulative pull at the heart strings to solely get 32red to refund money,money which at most was winnings and deposit,not soley DEPOSIT
The claim of being financially ruined if the money wasnt refunded proved wrong by the op a few days later
We dont know the content of the live chat ,but it appears the op was guided to the 2 step process by his own admission but failed to go through with it,instead opting for his 4 step email to a vip manager obviously waiting in bed with work laptop on standby.
The problem gambler?problem,addicted,compulsive its all a matter of an individuals interpr etation,and we know everyone thinks differently...i think a punter that asks on live chat for a freechip or measley spins without been given them has a problem.....i think a person wanting to conduct thier own survey of a slot they cant keep away from over the course of one million spins has a problem..and the casino offering incentive to that person through bonuses isnt being responsible,..i think a person complaining about thier money having no playtime anymore,and cant believe his luck,and then goes on to say his daughter has a medical condition he cant afford to keep on top of has a problem...
All these problems are on here,so are the casino reps...how about doing the right thing and guys and close thier accounts because the last two scream problem to me..
Lying and sob stories for the intended purpose,solely to gain a refund on a huge mistake is a different kind of problem,op never filed the 2 step se procedure which he was guided to...and that only leaves the email,which we all dont know the outcome of...What happened between the 6th and 17th june,the period between the 2 large deposits?

 

[greylady]

I am sorry for all parties involved but i am now favouring 32red that they do not refund because i am sorry to say feel it was a deliberate ploy by the OP who was well aware of their policy before he then decided to deposit a further 25k after the 6th June email and live chat session we still have not seen the transcript for.

I.

He would therefore have taken a huge risk as there is no guarantee his money would be refunded and considering he will lose his house car etc, why would anyone take such a risk - he is an addict, he has a sickness, his compulsion to play would have him on a 'high' without any thought for the consequences, compulsive gamblers have no impulse control, they just need their next fix - his e-mail/chat was crying out for help and it was ignored!

Compassion and understanding is what is needed, not judgement!

 

[maxd]

FTR Bryan has been away so far this week. He returns today.

 

[hypeamg]

I can't continually defend myself against this witch hunt, and a barrage of people who seem to get some kind of sick sadistic pleasure out of kicking someone when they are down, the same kind of people who would cheer on another mans death.

Maybe one day in the future when you face trial and tribulation and your life becomes too much, someone will turn around and tell you to "get lost" when you reach out for help, rock bottom.

People are so quick to judge, making out I am some kind of criminal or something - when the reality is I am a compassionate, self made businessman who has reached a point in his life where things have become too much.

Just re-affirms how sick this world is and why people can't get along.

 

[nikantw]

...As well as refunding losses, casinos are not supposed to pay winnings to a player marked as SE...

WTF!
Seriously? UKGC says don’t pay winnings to players?! Not pay ever?
I would understand if they took the money from the casino instantly but hold on to them until the SE person proves that all necessary steps have been taken to control the problem. That would make sense. But letting the casino keep the money doesn’t.

Someone with a 100k win (at a casino with 48hr reversal period and a month long paying time for that amount) would be nice to have the option to say “I am done” and ask for SE not because there is a big problem, just to eliminate any temptation to play any of it back. Why not get the money?

On the other hand new rules seem to force casinos take proactive steps. I like that. I would also like an instant SE with password, personal info and ID upload that takes effect immediately and blocks all online and ofline gambling. to UKGC for initiating that.

 

[hypeamg]

Another problem I had personally at 32Red was the withdrawl process. When I withdrew before all of this happened earlier in the year after winning a huge amount, which they can verify — the pending withdrawl would stay there and visible to 'reverse' at any time, sometimes for 2 - 3 days if not even more if it was a bank holiday.

Unfortunately having a severe gambling addiction I reversed it on many occasions, yet if it had of just gone straight to my bank it may have been a different story, and before you all attack me again yes I am currently seeking help.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Another problem I had personally at 32Red was the withdrawl process. When I withdrew before all of this happened earlier in the year after winning a huge amount, which they can verify — the pending withdrawl would stay there and visible to 'reverse' at any time, sometimes for 2 - 3 days if not even more if it was a bank holiday.

Unfortunately having a severe gambling addiction I reversed it on many occasions, yet if it had of just gone straight to my bank it may have been a different story, and before you all attack me again yes I am currently seeking help.

The pending periods have been debated many times here at CM and it is what it is. If you have a problem with those then you should have chosen other casinos who pay in minutes. Everyone knows what the payout times at 32RED are, even after just a few weeks of registering an account with them.

I would recommend you to stop posting for now and to wait for the outcome from 32RED. Any further details and posts might jeopardize your position or a PAB, should that become necessary.

People have always different opinions and that is what makes this forum a great place as we get all sides chiming in. Obviously, an OP will not like all comments. You can be assured that we call out strongly casinos who act wrongly, no matter what their status here at CM is, but we also apply the same standards to members trying to use this forum for their own or wrong purposes.

 

[hypeamg]

Thanks for your advice, I will be patient and wait to hear.

 

[Harry_BKK]

WTF!
Seriously? UKGC says don’t pay winnings to players?! Not pay ever?
I would understand if they took the money from the casino instantly but hold on to them until the SE person proves that all necessary steps have been taken to control the problem. That would make sense. But letting the casino keep the money doesn’t.

Someone with a 100k win (at a casino with 48hr reversal period and a month long paying time for that amount) would be nice to have the option to say “I am done” and ask for SE not because there is a big problem, just to eliminate any temptation to play any of it back. Why not get the money?

On the other hand new rules seem to force casinos take proactive steps. I like that. I would also like an instant SE with password, personal info and ID upload that takes effect immediately and blocks all online and ofline gambling. to UKGC for initiating that.

The UKGC stated in their deliberations that paying out winnings to a problem gambler would amplify the addiction, hence, not getting paid winnings is supposed to act as a deterrent.

Just imagine the mayhem and fraud when they would instruct operators to pay out winnings to a SE'ed player. You would have scores of fraudsters taking a "free ride", win get paid, lose get deposits back.

 

[nikantw]

The UKGC stated in their deliberations that paying out winnings to a problem gambler would amplify the addiction, hence, not getting paid winnings is supposed to act as a deterrent.

Just imagine the mayhem and fraud when they would instruct operators to pay out winnings to a SE'ed player. You would have scores of fraudsters taking a "free ride", win get paid, lose get deposits back.

Nothing to do with any of that. You need money to pay your rent, does paying your rent "amplify the addiction". We need money to survive, money should be paid. Hold on to the money untill help is given, that is the best action.

There is only room for fraud if UKGC and casinos leave room for it. Nothing to do with paying winnings.

 

[BlaCGaming]

I wonder where many of you draw the line then?

When is someone "not abusing" the system and really does need help? It seems to me that such cases cannot occur since everyone likes to jump on the "he just wants his losses back" wagon.

Its clear to me, most of us here "choose" to deposit and play. He doesn´t. He is fueled by addiction, not any desire for a fun time online.

Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

It doesn´t matter if any of you don´t buy his "bullshit". Sure its fine to have doubts, but don´t make assumptions that are hurtful in case OP is telling the truth, he is not in a place where any more emotional stress is easy to deal with.

 

[DreamRJ]

I wonder where many of you draw the line then?

When is someone "not abusing" the system and really does need help? It seems to me that such cases cannot occur since everyone likes to jump on the "he just wants his losses back" wagon.

Its clear to me, most of us here "choose" to deposit and play. He doesn´t. He is fueled by addiction, not any desire for a fun time online.

Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

It doesn´t matter if any of you don´t buy his "bullshit". Sure its fine to have doubts, but don´t make assumptions that are hurtful in case OP is telling the truth, he is not in a place where any more emotional stress is easy to deal with.

I have in no way been hurtful in my responses.

And i have also said in numerous posts that the OP needs help. All i was doing was reading the facts and stating my opinion based on the current evidence we have. And until we have even further evidence we will not know the full picture.

 

[BlaCGaming]

I have in no way been hurtful in my responses.

And i have also said in numerous posts that the OP needs help. All i was doing was reading the facts and stating my opinion based on the current evidence we have. And until we have even further evidence we will not know the full picture.

I didn´t mean to target you or anyone specific, its just the overall impression I get.

Keep in mind though that things you consider not hurtful could still be hurtful to others. For example your mention that he "chose" to deposit 25k$. I think someone with an addiction could take this in a bad way. Regardless it was not directed at you and I agree that we shall wait and see how this turns out.

I hope OP has no shame in asking for help, I`m sure the members will support him with overcoming his addiction.

 

[Deeplay]

I dont think anyone is trying be hurtful. But my past experience tells me especially with online forums to not take everything at face value. Everything the OP says and I mean everything on the house situation etc could be true... then again we only have his word for it ... so yes IM a skeptic and we have to wait to hear BOTH sides here. But again im sorry to say I have seen this kind of thing way to often. In the end HE has to take responsibility for his own actions. And 32red if there is a proven failure in the SE / RG system need to address this immediately!

Everyone is taking as fact every word said is 100% the truth .... think we need to pause a moment ... true innocent until proven guilty ... but this goes for both sides. Im no die hard 32red fan. I think there payout times suck, game selection sucks, support is mediocre to crap (often ) not of course including Mark who does a great job here. But that does not mean I will judge them on this until all facts are known.

Finally and yeah I know this aint the issue when speaking only of the whole RG situation. But the OPs only focus is reclaiming what HE chose to gamble. No on forced him. And I have no doubt if he does get refunded it will be spunked back into some other casino within weeks, and if he looses he will be back again crying wolf.

The above for sure probably wont be a popular view here but its my view ... take it or leave it.

 

[BlaCGaming]

I dont think anyone is trying be hurtful. But my past experience tells me especially with online forums to not take everything at face value. Everything the OP says and I mean everything on the house situation etc could be true... then again we only have his word for it ... so yes IM a skeptic and we have to wait to hear BOTH sides here. But again im sorry to say I have seen this kind of thing way to often. In the end HE has to take responsibility for his own actions. And 32red if there is a proven failure in the SE / RG system need to address this immediately!

Everyone is taking as fact every word said is 100% the truth .... think we need to pause a moment ... true innocent until proven guilty ... but this goes for both sides. Im no die hard 32red fan. I think there payout times suck, game selection sucks, support is mediocre to crap (often ) not of course including Mark who does a great job here. But that does not mean I will judge them on this until all facts are known.

Finally and yeah I know this aint the issue when speaking only of the whole RG situation. But the OPs only focus is reclaiming what HE chose to gamble. No on forced him. And I have no doubt if he does get refunded it will be spunked back into some other casino within weeks, and if he looses he will be back again crying wolf.

The above for sure probably wont be a popular view here but its my view ... take it or leave it.

I totally get it, I really do. But the issue here is generalization. "Because it happened many times before". We are seeing the same thing in real life. "All muslims are terrorists" kinda thing. I know its over the top and I don´t mean to bring politics into this, but its the best example I can think of. No matter how it sounds, if we take his word for it and give him advice based on it it can really help the few people who are actually truthful. This doesn´t mean people should attack 32Red or anything, just a bit sad to see this amount prejudice and taking sides, when it would be a better deal to just try and help and give neutral viewpoints. Thats my 2 cents, but I can respect your opinion on it too.

 

[Deeplay]

I totally get it, I really do. But the issue here is generalization. "Because it happened many times before". We are seeing the same thing in real life. "All muslims are terrorists" kinda thing. I know its over the top and I don´t mean to bring politics into this, but its the best example I can think of. No matter how it sounds, if we take his word for it and give him advice based on it it can really help the few people who are actually truthful. This doesn´t mean people should attack 32Red or anything, just a bit sad to see this amount prejudice and taking sides, when it would be a better deal to just try and help and give neutral viewpoints. Thats my 2 cents, but I can respect your opinion on it too.

Not about taking sides ... for me its now about waiting to see all the facts - (if we ever do ! )

As for player responsibility and addiction ... sure I feel for anyone who is struggling with this but I also know holding such a persons hand and giving sympathy does NOT work. Empathy sure ... understanding sure ... but a person has to take responsibility in the end and want to get help and I know for a fact reclaiming or trying to reclaim losses is doomed in the end. And for such people (speaking here in general terms not about the OP) ... For such people it sadly takes them loosing almost everything or everything and only when at the absolute bottom of the pit will they be ready to take on the challenge of working through the addiction.

 

[richmcd]

Everyone is taking as fact every word said is 100% the truth .... think we need to pause a moment ...

Actually, I doubt ANYONE is taking what the OP says as 100% true. He's an admitted problem gambler. Addicts lie. I'm fully on his side, and I hope he gets his refund and the help he seriously needs, but I'm not gullible.

I think you're misunderstanding the major argument for OP being refunded. The "truth" of the OP's situation is almost entirely irrelevant. His account doesn't need to be 100% true. It doesn't even need to be 10% true. It DOESN'T MATTER if the OP is lying to us now, or in his email to 32Red (provided he sent it, of course - that has to be true). It DOESN'T MATTER if he's the world's most cold-hearted scammer or if he's a secret millionaire trying one on for laughs.

(Of course I sincerely hope he isn't, and like others I'm a bit dismayed at the lack of compassion for someone who seems to have a serious gambling addiction. But that's irrelevant too.)

The ONLY detail that matters is this: If someone sends an email to a casino claiming they have a gambling problem, that casino should immediately close that player's account. Anything else is taking advantage. That's all there is to it. It's the ethical thing to do, it's the kind thing to do, and it's the only legal thing to do. (Barring some extreme semantic acrobatics with the regulations. But then we're back to ethics.)

I don't expect 32Red have been malicious here. I think some casinos are, but most are just lazy. I expect the chat staff member wasn't properly trained, and someone just didn't bother to read the email until it was far too late. But that's irrelevant too. Casinos have a responsibility. They make a shit ton of money for nothing. (Yes, yes, it's not nothing, it's providing entertainment - but the casinos don't actually provide that, game developers do. The casinos just license it. Creativity I respect. "Having the money to provide servers and a glitchy front-end", less so.) The very least they can do is have stringent measures in place to protect vulnerable players.

Heck, at this point I'd settle for "adequate" measures. I like slots, I like gambling, and as my other recent posts make clear, I'm happy to defend casinos and slots against bogus charges until the cows come home. But the way casinos handle problem players and their legal responsibilities is appalling. I'm a freelance writer/editor, and my job sometimes involves checking and/or translating legal terms and conditions. I make a habit of checking the terms of every casino I might sign up for, and NOT ONE has fully accurate terms and conditions. NOT ONE. Of over 50 casinos. There's always at least typos and missing words, and many of them are such badly mangled translated English that I bet they'd crumble if anyone actually tried to mount a serious challenge in the courts. And for what? Chucking a couple of hundred quid on a proper editor/proofreader. It's arrogance, plain and simple. They think they don't need to bother.

And until the casinos - the ones with all the power and money, the ones CHOOSING to operate a business in this industry - start taking their most basic responsibilities seriously, then I'm afraid I'm going to find it hard to get too worked up about player responsibility.

 

[Deeplay]

Actually, I doubt ANYONE is taking what the OP says as 100% true. He's an admitted problem gambler. Addicts lie. I'm fully on his side, and I hope he gets his refund and the help he seriously needs, but I'm not gullible.

I think you're misunderstanding the major argument for OP being refunded. The "truth" of the OP's situation is almost entirely irrelevant. His account doesn't need to be 100% true. It doesn't even need to be 10% true. It DOESN'T MATTER if the OP is lying to us now, or in his email to 32Red (provided he sent it, of course - that has to be true). It DOESN'T MATTER if he's the world's most cold-hearted scammer or if he's a secret millionaire trying one on for laughs.

(Of course I sincerely hope he isn't, and like others I'm a bit dismayed at the lack of compassion for someone who seems to have a serious gambling addiction. But that's irrelevant too.)

The ONLY detail that matters is this: If someone sends an email to a casino claiming they have a gambling problem, that casino should immediately close that player's account. Anything else is taking advantage. That's all there is to it. It's the ethical thing to do, it's the kind thing to do, and it's the only legal thing to do. (Barring some extreme semantic acrobatics with the regulations. But then we're back to ethics.)

I don't expect 32Red have been malicious here. I think some casinos are, but most are just lazy. I expect the chat staff member wasn't properly trained, and someone just didn't bother to read the email until it was far too late. But that's irrelevant too. Casinos have a responsibility. They make a shit ton of money for nothing. (Yes, yes, it's not nothing, it's providing entertainment - but the casinos don't actually provide that, game developers do. The casinos just license it. Creativity I respect. "Having the money to provide servers and a glitchy front-end", less so.) The very least they can do is have stringent measures in place to protect vulnerable players.

Heck, at this point I'd settle for "adequate" measures. I like slots, I like gambling, and as my other recent posts make clear, I'm happy to defend casinos and slots against bogus charges until the cows come home. But the way casinos handle problem players and their legal responsibilities is appalling. I'm a freelance writer/editor, and my job sometimes involves checking and/or translating legal terms and conditions. I make a habit of checking the terms of every casino I might sign up for, and NOT ONE has fully accurate terms and conditions. NOT ONE. Of over 50 casinos. There's always at least typos and missing words, and many of them are such badly mangled translated English that I bet they'd crumble if anyone actually tried to mount a serious challenge in the courts. And for what? Chucking a couple of hundred quid on a proper editor/proofreader. It's arrogance, plain and simple. They think they don't need to bother.

And until the casinos - the ones with all the power and money, the ones CHOOSING to operate a business in this industry - start taking their most basic responsibilities seriously, then I'm afraid I'm going to find it hard to get too worked up about player responsibility.

All well and good if the OP is giving the full story on timings and what correspondence was between him and 32red. If he asked for SE and it was not granted this is the casino at fault. But we only have 1 side of the story so far. We have yet to hear from 32red so no one can state he should be refunded until the facts are known. Unless of course you believe every word the OP has said.

 

[nutnut]

He will get refunded because he posted live chat convo.

That is enough proof for me after that they should have closed it instantly.

The uk gambling laws always side with addicts. He will get it all back.

32 red should also face a fine

 

[DreamRJ]

He will get refunded because he posted live chat convo.

That is enough proof for me after that they should have closed it instantly.

The uk gambling laws always side with addicts. He will get it all back.

32 red should also face a fine

what who what where why when??

I do not see he has posted the live chat transcript yet? I just went through all of the pages again, the live chat transcript has still not been posted here yet??