wofacai bonus issue: Pontoon = Blackjack Game?

tristan727

Banned user - violation of <a href="http://www.ca
Joined
May 31, 2006
Location
London
Hi,
A certain, as yet un-named, Playtech Licensee has a rather ingenious method of making profit, I have found to my cost. Anyone who meets their sign-up bonus conditions & then dares withdraw, is labelled a bonus abuser, and deposit returned, all profit revoked. The withdrawal is declined due to 'security purpose'. I know this from my own experience, and a fellow gambler....so it is the norm apparently.

They can call me a bonus abuser if they like, but the fact is, I ain't stupid - and test out every casino's withdrawal facility, before considering making a 2nd deposit & giving them my future patronage. No intention of winding up like some of the poor guys here who find themselves $20,000 in the hole.

Any advise appreciated, as I am out possibly over a $grand myself - slightly less if the deposit is actually returned. Not used a PAB yet, is non-accredited this one.

cheers
 
Well name and shame them is the first thing you should do IMO.

Pople need to find out about these dodgy operators asap so they know to avoid them.

Apart from that you can PaB in case Bryan has any contacts there.
 
Cheers, will do - but I only received all this info. a couple of hours ago (although I've been screwed around with ID nonsense for 2 weeks now - they never requested any until I called them a week after submitting my w/d) - so am still waiting for the dust to settle, before naming and shaming.

To clarify - I employed no tactics whatsoever with the upfront bonus given, to increase my balance. It made no difference at all to my winnings, as I simply played at $10/hand or so, and got off to a good start, never once being in a losing situation (sans bonus) even. So if they want to remove the bonus & give me the rest, then whatever - you only live once & let's move on. But the fact is I was 45 hands up over 300 or so...I would like the profit of that please. I wonder if they returned the deposits of those who lost & tried to withdraw what was left, after meeting the terms?:rolleyes: Nor, come to think of it - did I enter any bonus code, or tick any box agreeing to the bonus - they simply stuck it in my account & gave me no choice.

p.s. is there any Playtech representation or comms here? The fact that this casino is a licensee of a well-known market leader is what I am hoping will at least give a half-sensible resolution to this, although from reading other people's problems in the past briefly, I am not confident.
 
cheers for the advice - just to update, I got the 'bonus abuse' email in the end - so sent them an emailing explaining how it wasn't - and that by the morning I would submit a formal complaint to Playtech if he hasn't over-ridden a hopefully 'automatic software decision' (no sense not giving them the doubt)- which I notice you advise to do 1st in the PAB link you provide.

However the link to Playtech goes to the main page of Playtech - am I right that this is the actual form need to fill in?

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Oh, and p.s. - the wagering requirement of the bonus was 60 times, FWIW.
 
As soon as CM has taken a look at it, toss it all out in open asap. Players would appreciate that. Chat logs and mail exchanges would provide a good read I believe.
 
Just got this...

We would like to inform you that your case has undergone thorough investigation. In line with this we have finalized our decision to close your account and return back your deposits per casino policy.



We have sufficient evidences that will support this action.
 
Just PAB'd now - although my final paragraph is oddly garbled - just about readable though.

Doubt very much he is familiar with the casino concerned - there are no mention of them at CM at all, in fact. If they weren't Playtech, I wouldn't have touched them. Will leave to him to advise if should name & shame at this stage.
 
Just PAB'd now - although my final paragraph is oddly garbled - just about readable though.

Doubt very much he is familiar with the casino concerned - there are no mention of them at CM at all, in fact. If they weren't Playtech, I wouldn't have touched them. Will leave to him to advise if should name & shame at this stage.

Casinomeister and Vortran know many more operators than those which actually make the Accredited list. In fact, I'd swear that they know operators who aren't even known to anyone at all except the software provider!
 
Excellent - here's hoping then.

Must admit, I thought I'd never have to PAB. I mean,in my entire 10 years of playing online casinos - I have never wagered, far as I know, with companies operating in some of countries to be avoided, ie. Russia & certain C.American places (the one concerned is apparently owned by a Cypriot firm). I have never been tempted to commit once, any form of ID manipulation or multiple account abuse etc. I am from a country which has no payment probs or restrictions etc.(UK). I have never attempted to play out bonuses through dumb 'no-risk' abuse strategies on Roulette, Baccarat etc. I've therefore not had any real probs so far to date, as a result.
 
Just PAB'd now - although my final paragraph is oddly garbled - just about readable though.

Doubt very much he is familiar with the casino concerned - there are no mention of them at CM at all, in fact. If they weren't Playtech, I wouldn't have touched them. Will leave to him to advise if should name & shame at this stage.
Got it, and it's been sent. And yes, I do know this operator and it's a good group. It may take a few days to get this taken care of since they are on the other side of the planet and it's the weekend already over there.

What games did you play by the way?
 
That's good to hear you know them - I won't ever doubt your contacts and knowledge again!

Sadly I played a game which I have just noticed they have updated the terms of the bonus to ban...Pontoon. I quite like Playtech's version, as they don't check for 21 everytime, unlike Crypto's.

Before & during terms....

This bonus doesn’t apply for any blackjack games.

Any non-risk bet (such as bet same time in banker and players in baccarat, or bet same time in red and black in Roulette etc), will not be counted under wager.


Today's

This bonus doesn't apply for any blackjack games and Pontoon.

Any non-risk bet (such as bet same time in banker and players in baccarat, or bet same time in red and black in Roulette etc), will not be counted under wager.


It should also be noted that not once yet, in the 7 or 8 emails and one phone call they made to me, have they said I played a banned game, all they discussed was getting my correct docs for withdrawal, and then telling me I was banned. This rather goes together with the fact that Pontoon was only banned today.
 
That's good to hear you know them - I won't ever doubt your contacts and knowledge again!

Sadly I played a game which I have just noticed they have updated the terms of the bonus to ban...Pontoon. I quite like Playtech's version, as they don't check for 21 everytime, unlike Crypto's.

Before & during terms....

This bonus doesnt apply for any blackjack games.

Any non-risk bet (such as bet same time in banker and players in baccarat, or bet same time in red and black in Roulette etc), will not be counted under wager.


Today's

This bonus doesn't apply for any blackjack games and Pontoon.

Any non-risk bet (such as bet same time in banker and players in baccarat, or bet same time in red and black in Roulette etc), will not be counted under wager.


It should also be noted that not once yet, in the 7 or 8 emails and one phone call they made to me, have they said I played a banned game, all they discussed was getting my correct docs for withdrawal, and then telling me I was banned. This rather goes together with the fact that Pontoon was only banned today.

Pontoon is definitely a Blackjack family game. They probably added that phrase as clarification.
 
A nice clarification that - they get to keep all the winner's funds, and the loser's then. But wouldn't clarification say instead 'All Blackjack variations, such as Pontoon' not 'and Pontoon' then, if their intent was as you believe?

Another brand new term they've started using just today is that it is a Play Bonus.

Before anyone says it is another clarification - I have an automated withdrawal notification from them, from a week ago - which stated the full amount.
 
Pontoon is definitely a form of blackjack, I don't think that any one can dispute this fact, nor the the fact that the terms actually said "all blackjack games".

While it could indeed be because of you that "pontoon" was added - I'd say your case isn't particularly strong. I do agree that they could have told you this before asking for your documents though.

If you think they should be explicit and state each and every variation, I am sure there are many readers in here that would disagreee. And as for the semantics ('such as' instead of 'and') - judging by the level of the English used on the rest of the page, I do not think you have a reasonable claim there either.

By the way I find it quite refreshing to see T&Cs that are extraordinarily simple compared to the pages of crap that some other casinos put out. Yes, the English isn't that fluent - but you can still easily tell what the T&Cs are in 30 seconds or less.
 
By the way I find it quite refreshing to see T&Cs that are extraordinarily simple compared to the pages of crap that some other casinos put out. Yes, the English isn't that fluent - but you can still easily tell what the T&Cs are in 30 seconds or less.


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13.13. Bets placed on all versions of Baccarat, Craps, all versions of Roulette, all versions of Sic Bo, all Video Poker games, Blackjack Switch and Blackjack Surrender will not be counted toward wagering requirements.

13.14. Wofaca Casino reserves the right to withhold any amount in excess of the players original deposit from a player's withdrawal if the bonus is wagered in Roulette (all sorts of Roulette), Baccarat (all sorts of Baccarat), Blackjack (all sorts of Blackjack, Craps (all sorts of Craps), SicBo (all sorts of SicBo) or Pontoon.

13.15 By participating and winning in any promotion, tournament, contest or other games at Wofaca Casino you grant the right your name, e-mail address and/or username to be used for promotional purposes without further compensation by Wofaca Casino.

13.16. Players may request a maximum of 2 withdrawals from their account at anytime within a maximum overall withdrawal limit of $5,000 per month. No one withdrawal may have a value in excess of $2,500. At the management's discretion this rule may be waived for Wofaca Casino VIP Club members.

13.17. The management reserves the right to end or cease awarding any promotion as well as change the terms and conditions at any time and it is player's responsibility to periodically check up the web site for changes.

13.18. In the event of a dispute, all decisions made by the casino will be final.
 
Pontoon is definitely a form of blackjack, I don't think that any one can dispute this fact, nor the the fact that the terms actually said "all blackjack games".


Deleted my argument, as no doubt we could argue til the cows come home.

If I could however point you out to Term 13.13 & 13.14. It is very clear that they have tacked on Pontoon as an afterthought to 13.14 - and 13.13 they have forgotten to update. How on earth from reading 13.13 - would anyone deduce Pontoon is banned? They even state exactly which forms of BJ are banned.

Now surely, after reading 13.13 (my apologies for not pointing it out before) - you would agree with me that it was clear enough that Pontoon was an allowed game? I could point you out to several casinos which allow Pontoon, but not Blackjack...is quite normal.
 
One last damning fact

Another reason below why they have confiscated my winnings, entirely against their t&c's...as I never even came close to needing to use the bonus funds.

13.3. The first credits wagered will be deducted from your deposit(s) rather than from the PLAY BONUS

13.14. Wofaca Casino reserves the right to withhold any amount in excess of the players original deposit from a player's withdrawal if the bonus is wagered in Roulette (all sorts of Roulette), Baccarat (all sorts of Baccarat), Blackjack (all sorts of Blackjack, Craps (all sorts of Craps), SicBo (all sorts of SicBo) or Pontoon.

Therefore I am 100% fully entitled to my winnings - even under their rules - never mind a lawyer's or chat forum's code of conduct!
 
Therefore I am 100% fully entitled to my winnings - even under their rules - never mind a lawyer's or chat forum's code of conduct..

There is no code of conduct other than the house edge. If you want your 'winnings' don't use bonuses.
 
There is no code of conduct other than the house edge. If you want your 'winnings' don't use bonuses.

Hi Lojo,
I am sure you are a very intelligent bloke, just didn't read what they & I said.

Can I please re-phrase it for you then, in short.

a) Under their clearly written legally binding contract, which I agreed to - I did not use the bonus at all. Please re-read their terms (player risks deposited funds before bonus, and winnings from bonus will be removed, etc.) & how I played ($10/hand, winning from the beginning & never needing to use bonus funds) - and then say if you still do not understand. Maybe I'll try and draw a flow-chart or something.

b)the code of conduct I was referring to was not with them - I am aware that they have legally binding agreements under the govt. of the Filipines, I was referring to any general opinions or feeling at websites like this one.

P.S. would much appreciate if a Mod could change the title of this thread to 'Wofacai confiscates my winnings against their own t&c's' please.
 
If you played with a bonus you might be fecked.

I'm sure it will all work out well, you are in good hands here, as you know.
 
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Well, obviously - judging by the reaction here to the lack of concern about Pontoon being hastily added to the t&c's.

However their t&c's say you play with your deposit first, not bonus - and they only claim the right to remove winnings derived from bonuses. As I never needed to dip into the bonus, they have no right to remove their winnings.

These t&c's are cyrstal clear, and cannot possibly be construed in any other way.thank goodness.
 
And it will be handled, that's why you're here, and that's what keeps 'em honest.
 
Deleted my argument, as no doubt we could argue til the cows come home.

If I could however point you out to Term 13.13 & 13.14. It is very clear that they have tacked on Pontoon as an afterthought to 13.14 - and 13.13 they have forgotten to update. How on earth from reading 13.13 - would anyone deduce Pontoon is banned? They even state exactly which forms of BJ are banned.

Now surely, after reading 13.13 (my apologies for not pointing it out before) - you would agree with me that it was clear enough that Pontoon was an allowed game? I could point you out to several casinos which allow Pontoon, but not Blackjack...is quite normal.

You and I obviously weren't reading the same page - in fact, I read the page which is directly linked to the promo:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


50% First Deposit Bonus up to $200

New Players, we welcome you at wofacai casino with a 50% sign up play bonus! As much you can get $200 for Free!

Example Deposit Bonus
Example One $300 $150
Example Two $500 $200

This bonus only available for wofacai Casinos players who makes the first deposit!

Please notice that, each family could only have one account, if open the second account, this account will be frozen. Each family / account only has one chance to get the first deposit bonus.

For fair game, before you request to withdraw your deposit and bonus, you much wager at least 20 times your First Deposit plus the bonus.

This bonus doesn't apply for any blackjack games and Pontoon.

Any non-risk bet (such as bet same time in banker and players in baccarat, or bet same time in red and black in Roulette etc), will not be counted under wager.

This bonus may not be combined with any other bonus unless otherwise stated.

Wofacai Casino has the right to check any players game record, if we find some players together cheat on us when they use this bonus, we have the right to cancel their bonus.

Wofacai Casino has the right to make final decision.

Also, 13.14 does exclude pontoon, though I do not know if this was present in the past or whether it in fact was added in after the original rules.
 

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