Winner Casino is not paying. Who played recently?

[wernerw]

I just received an email from winner casino:

Dear Werner,

During the period of March 10th to March 14th new software elements were implemented to our new game engine.

Few days after launching the new software we noticed that the Black Jack game engine was damaged during the implementation and all players of the Black Jack game were given significant advantage over the house, resulting in unfair results for the house.

As an immediate solution, the game engine was repaired on March 21st .

According to the terms and conditions you agreed upon installing the software, We will reverse the activity recorded between March 14th to March 21st .

In the next few hours we will reverse your initial deposit and welcome bonus back to your account.

We welcome you to continue enjoying our games and services.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you.

Sincerely yours ,
Casino Manager

This is the whole Email. nothing omitted. No mention of which casino, no name of the casino manager (although there is a name of a sender).

I played their welcome bonus (Deposit 100, get 185, sticky bonus), nearly busted but just when I was going to bust my luck changed and I could withdraw 600.

Was anybody playing this in the given timeframe and bust? Did he get such an email from winner, so his losses went back to the account?

I feel that I am being robbed.

What can I do?

 

[chesterp]

i won big time here and got the same email today. ridiculous. even if there were a glitch, we are being robbed.

 

[adha]

I got the email today to. $497 I cashed out.

 

[UKDafoe]

It would be worth taking a look at the software terms and conditions. Anyone want to find and post the relevant term?

 

[winbig]

It would be worth taking a look at the software terms and conditions. Anyone want to find and post the relevant term?

Interesting...There's no mention of what happens during such a "malfunction" on their website..unless it's in the EULA you agreed to when installing the software. Even then, what if others were playing the flash version? They'd never see this "malfunction" clause.

It's really a moot point when you think about it though. How can they claim a "malfunction" when:

1) they let it go a week without taking the game offline, even though they knew about it "a few days after" the upgrade.

2) if it was truly a programming error, then why haven't we heard about similar experiences from casinos with the same software (is it MG, Playtech, etc?)

3) as stated before, did they refund the money of those unlucky souls that had the bad luck of losing?

 

[Macgyver]

2) if it was truly a programming error, then why haven't we heard about similar experiences from casinos with the same software (is it MG, Playtech, etc?)

Winner doesn't use any of the brand name softwares ... it's proprietary and independent.

You can see screenshots of the software in this thread:

Is this a problem with BJ?

 

[wernerw]

So how should we proceed here?

I will try to to find somebody who lost and got back his losses in other forums, but then still this is not acceptable in my opinion.

 

[dresden]

I think we should wait and see what CM has to say. I'm informed through my affiliate that Bryan is aware of the situation.

This is eerily reminisicent of that Joyland mess I was reading up on in that a software "glitch" is being used to justify the voiding of players' balances. Although, here it's not even that a bunch of advantage players well...took advantage. I had no idea when I was playing and I don't think anyone else did either.

For the record, my 1300 winnings at Casinoforaces (Winner's sister) were voided and my balance was reset.

I was told this operation had no relation to the old Casino4aces.

 

[TheBloke]

Funny how, when there's a software glitch in the casino's favour, you have to pester and eventually all you get back is the difference between your actual return and the proper return.

When the software glitch is in your favour, all winnings are void.

Sounds like software glitches are very profitable for casinos, whatever type they are!


(PS. I don't know that this casino has ever fallen into the former category, my knowledge of errors that gave the casino an advantage is on other software providers. But I'd bet you all I have that this casino/group would do no more than refund the difference had the error been the other way)

 

[wernerw]

Just for the records: I did not hear of such a software "problem" until yesterday, so I was NOT taking advantage of it.

And I read this email again, it is unbelievable. They released on the 14th, then they found out about a problem and then "immediately" on the 21st they fixed the problem.

 

[jetset]

I think we should wait and see what CM has to say. I'm informed through my affiliate that Bryan is aware of the situation.

This is eerily reminisicent of that Joyland mess I was reading up on in that a software "glitch" is being used to justify the voiding of players' balances. Although, here it's not even that a bunch of advantage players well...took advantage. I had no idea when I was playing and I don't think anyone else did either.

For the record, my 1300 winnings at Casinoforaces (Winner's sister) were voided and my balance was reset.

I was told this operation had no relation to the old Casino4aces.

Two points here:

Werner's comment regarding the timing of this alleged glitch and the apparent procrastination before something was done about it are very valid.

If I recall correctly, the Joyland debacle was more incompetent management of a promo than a technical fault.

 

[The Dude]

...I was told this operation had no relation to the old Casino4aces.

New operators - new software. I met them in Vegas in September this last year.

Vortran and I discuss this a bit on this week's webcast - I'm emailing the operators now to find up what's up.

 

[dresden]

Vortran and I discuss this a bit on this week's webcast

D+ huh? You're an easy grader.

 

[chesterp]

so i'm guessing that in the meantime we shouldn't bet or cashout what they returned or anything? i could use the cashout, but not if it risks losing what i won. i have about $1000 in these casinos now, but they took $4000 from my accounts because of this glitch. can't wait to find out what the glitch is. should be fully refunded, but if not, what about remove the % the glitch favored us by? if we had a 5% adv. over the house, take 5% of our betting from us- not all our winnings.

 

[adha]

tehy wont let you cash out anyway. I just tried to cash out my original deposit only and get this:

We are sorry, the bonus you received had not been fully played
thus you cannot cash out money!

 

[soflat]

It's amazing that nobody lost money at the casino games there.

 

[dresden]

Exactly how would you know?

The people who lost aren't expecting any cash-outs. They are not surprised when their winnings are voided because they don't have any winnings.

When, instead of a cash-out, the winners receive a letter telling them their winnings are void they then have reason to vocalize.

 

[actyper]

During that time I received a free $40 from them which I lost. Just got an email saying they put $40 back into my account! I haven't heard from anybody who got refunded their full deposit yet though.

 

[soflat]

Exactly how would you know?

The people who lost aren't expecting any cash-outs. They are not surprised when their winnings are voided because they don't have any winnings.

When, instead of a cash-out, the winners receive a letter telling them their winnings are void they then have reason to vocalize.

I would know because until now nobody who has read this or the other forums has come forward and stated it.

I assume they'd want to get their losses back due to the unfair game, and thus they have a reason to vocalize, don't you?

It looks like most people won there.

 

[dresden]

Who do you think is going to notice the problem first? The people who won and were expecting cash-outs or the people who lost and were expecting nothing? Certainly, it's the former.

I'm sure there were people who lost. As I stated, when I played and software was supposedly "glitched" in my favor, it was unnoticeable. That is to say, it was not like I was winning every hand or four out every five hands or anything like that. There were normal steaks, both up and down. Because of this, I'm sure some people lost.

Yeah, they should be refunded and I'm sure as they find out they'll request to be.

 

[The Dude]

I've been in touch with the operators, and they've told me that all acounts of players who participated in this game were reset.

As of now, all players that played in either casino during this time have had their account balances reset to the amount of their initial deposit plus any relevant bonuses, regardless if they won or lost. The funds are now back in their casino account and they may cash out their deposits or stay and play.

 

[dresden]

Hmm...so I guess at 'Winner Casino' the losers turn out to be winners and the winners turn out to be losers.

I guess I should search for a place to play called 'Loser Casino' where the situation might be reversed.

Do you consider this to be a fair resolution?

 

[Slotster!]

Do you consider this to be a fair resolution?

It seems a fair resolution on the surface to me... I do wonder however, how much they were 'up' or 'down'?... A casino could suffer a freak really bad run for a few weeks and, as a result, decide to void all plays - refunding winners and losers, but giving them another crack at starting from zero with the house edge kicking in.

I'm not in any way suggesting this is what happened, and in my opinion the resolution for a 'software glitch' is fair. It does scare me a bit that casino's can do stuff like this though... Guess it's times like this that the real difference between 'online' and 'bricks and mortar' really hits home!...

 

[thelawnet]

It seems a fair resolution on the surface to me... I do wonder however, how much they were 'up' or 'down'?... A casino could suffer a freak really bad run for a few weeks and, as a result, decide to void all plays - refunding winners and losers, but giving them another crack at starting from zero with the house edge kicking in.

I'm not in any way suggesting this is what happened, and in my opinion the resolution for a 'software glitch' is fair. It does scare me a bit that casino's can do stuff like this though... Guess it's times like this that the real difference between 'online' and 'bricks and mortar' really hits home!...

Sounds like this a casino that won't have any more customers....

You'd have to be out of your mind to play at a place that will void winnings in this manner. How do they explain this? As a programmer I can't see how it could be magically paying out too much.

It's illogical and highly improbable.

There is no way that this could happen unless the software is crooked or if the casino was not following the rules (e.g., not withdrawing bets from the players' accounts).

Blackjack can only be implemented by dealing cards at random from a deck. I can't really see how this can go wrong. Nobody is saying they were not playing the right rules or not deducting losses or anything. They just seem to be saying the payout was set too low. What kind of casino sets payout? You do not 'set' payout, you deal random cards, observe a set of rules, and there is an expected casino win of a calculable percentage.

This is just garbage. How could anybody want to play here again after this non-explanation of exactly how it is possible that the casino was paying out wrongly.

Things like Playtech's blackjack switch are obvious - they changed their rules for switching, and that affects the game.

But they are claiming not to have changed anything and still want to take everybody's money.

This explains exactly why the USA wants to ban online gambling, and with shitty places like this that won't explain what they are doing and are completely unaccountable to anyone, who can blame them.

 

[Pinababy69]

It does scare me a bit that casino's can do stuff like this though...

I second that sentiment.