Spear, the reason I am now going down the route of chargeback is because no one will get back to me and I have been advised to try that by someone I trust.If WH were talking to me I would not be doing it.I have written to my MP who got back to me today(well someone acting on their behalf) he is out of the country on biz and they will draw his attention to my letter next week.For all you sceptics out there,I have kept my bank out of this until now,why would I do this if I was a fake? I am sick of defending myself,think whatever you like!
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William Hill - What customer service!
- Thread starter bandana
- Start date
A chargeback is basically stating that you did not receive the goods or services that you have been charged. Or you did not authorize your credit card / debit card to be charged.
As neither of these circustances have taken place, and adding the fact that you went back and deposited a further 10 pound, then sent WH an e-mail stating why you deposited again, ( they already have a confession that you deposited the 45,000 English Pounds ) basically makes a chargeback a one way ticket to getting yourself in deeper water & possibly charged with attempted fraud IMHO.
As neither of these circustances have taken place, and adding the fact that you went back and deposited a further 10 pound, then sent WH an e-mail stating why you deposited again, ( they already have a confession that you deposited the 45,000 English Pounds ) basically makes a chargeback a one way ticket to getting yourself in deeper water & possibly charged with attempted fraud IMHO.
Spear,
In regards to GamCare, if they operate along the same lines as Gamblers Anonymous, then I doubt they'd get involved in any attempt to retreive this money.
Basically the doctrine behind GA is that if you " bail out " a compulsive gambler, this person will continue to gamble.
However if this person is not " bailed out ", thus forcing them to take resposibility for their actions ( that is gambling & whatever damage they have done ) the compulsive gambler is more inclined to face up to their problem & seek help.
Growth & or change doesn't normally come about without some form of pain, thus in the case of GA a gambler must hit their " rock bottom " before they will seek any real help.
If we take away the mental illness, ( which in all honesty I'm starting to question ) then the only thing we are left with IMO, is a compulsive gambling binge.
binge an unrestrained and often excessive indulgence.
In regards to GamCare, if they operate along the same lines as Gamblers Anonymous, then I doubt they'd get involved in any attempt to retreive this money.
Basically the doctrine behind GA is that if you " bail out " a compulsive gambler, this person will continue to gamble.
However if this person is not " bailed out ", thus forcing them to take resposibility for their actions ( that is gambling & whatever damage they have done ) the compulsive gambler is more inclined to face up to their problem & seek help.
Growth & or change doesn't normally come about without some form of pain, thus in the case of GA a gambler must hit their " rock bottom " before they will seek any real help.
If we take away the mental illness, ( which in all honesty I'm starting to question ) then the only thing we are left with IMO, is a compulsive gambling binge.
binge an unrestrained and often excessive indulgence.
bipolar disorder.
Includes:
manic-depressive illness, psychosis or reaction
Mania (Manic Episode)1:
Mania often begins with an intense burst of energy, creativity, and social ease. People with mania typically deny that anything is wrong, and angrily blame anyone who points out a problem.
In a manic episode, the following symptoms are present for at least 1 week:
Feeling unusually "high," euphoric, or irritable
Plus at least 4 of the following symptoms:
-needing little sleep yet having great amounts of energy
-talking so fast that others cannot keep up with the thought pattern
-having racing thoughts
-being so easily distracted that their attention shifts between many topics in just a few minutes
-having an inflated feeling of power, greatness, or importance
-doing reckless things without concern about possible bad consequences (eg, spending too much money, engaging in inappropriate sexual activity, or making foolish business investments)
In severe cases, the person may also experience hallucinations or delusions.[color=ff0000](Psychosis)[/color]
Hypomania (Hypomanic Episode)2:
Hypomania is a milder form of mania that has similar but less severe symptoms. In a hypomanic episode symptoms are present for at least 4 days.
[color=0000ff]
"At first when I'm high, it's tremendousideas are fastlike shooting stars you follow until brighter ones appearall shyness disappears, the right words and gestures are suddenly thereuninteresting people, things, become intensely interesting. Sensuality is pervasive; the desire to seduce and be seduced is irresistible. Your marrow is infused with unbelievable feelings of ease, power, well-being, omnipotence, euphoriayou can do anythingbut, somewhere this changes."[/color]
Depression (Major Depressive Episode)3:
In a major depressive episode, the following symptoms are present for at least 2 weeks:
*Feeling sad, blue, or down in the dumps or losing interest in the things one normally enjoys
*Plus at least 4 of the following symptoms:
-changes in appetite or weight
-changes in sleep
-difficulty thinking, concentrating, or making decisions
-feeling slowed down
-feeling worthless or guilty
-thoughts of death or suicide
Severe depression may also include hallucinations or delusions.[color=ff0000](Psychosis)[/color]
[color=0000ff]
"I doubt completely my ability to do anything well. It seems as though my mind has slowed down and burned out to the point of being virtually useless. [I am] haunt[ed]with the total, the desperate hopelessness of it all Others say, 'It's only temporary, it will pass, you will get over it.' But of course they haven't any idea of how I feel, although they are certain they do. If I can't feel, move, think, or care, then what on earth is the point?"[/color]
Mixed Episode 4:
In a mixed episode the symptoms of both a manic and major depressive episodes are experienced nearly every day for at least 1 week. This may be one of the most disabling episodes, as well as the greatest risk for suicide.
[color=ff0000]Psychosis[/color]
Psychosis is a mental and behavioral disorder in which a person has trouble telling the difference between what is real and what is not real. It may cause bizarre thoughts and behavior. A person with psychosis may have:
Delusions, which are firmly held but false beliefs. Irrational suspicion of others (paranoia) is a common delusion. The person may think others are watching or trying to hurt or even trying to kill him or her.
Hallucinations, which are false perceptions. Hallucinations can include seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling, or tasting things that are not really there. Personality changes.
-So, unless you have been there, don't questions as to WHY this or that was done to a person who is ther!! They have NO idea!! They will feel pressured into giving the uninformed an answer that will only lead into more questions. you will NEVER understand this disorder unless, as I said, YOU yourself have beeb there, or suffering from it yourself.
So if bandana truly suffers from this, be supportive, or be NOTHING at all!!
Includes:
manic-depressive illness, psychosis or reaction
Mania (Manic Episode)1:
Mania often begins with an intense burst of energy, creativity, and social ease. People with mania typically deny that anything is wrong, and angrily blame anyone who points out a problem.
In a manic episode, the following symptoms are present for at least 1 week:
Feeling unusually "high," euphoric, or irritable
Plus at least 4 of the following symptoms:
-needing little sleep yet having great amounts of energy
-talking so fast that others cannot keep up with the thought pattern
-having racing thoughts
-being so easily distracted that their attention shifts between many topics in just a few minutes
-having an inflated feeling of power, greatness, or importance
-doing reckless things without concern about possible bad consequences (eg, spending too much money, engaging in inappropriate sexual activity, or making foolish business investments)
In severe cases, the person may also experience hallucinations or delusions.[color=ff0000](Psychosis)[/color]
Hypomania (Hypomanic Episode)2:
Hypomania is a milder form of mania that has similar but less severe symptoms. In a hypomanic episode symptoms are present for at least 4 days.
[color=0000ff]
"At first when I'm high, it's tremendousideas are fastlike shooting stars you follow until brighter ones appearall shyness disappears, the right words and gestures are suddenly thereuninteresting people, things, become intensely interesting. Sensuality is pervasive; the desire to seduce and be seduced is irresistible. Your marrow is infused with unbelievable feelings of ease, power, well-being, omnipotence, euphoriayou can do anythingbut, somewhere this changes."[/color]
Depression (Major Depressive Episode)3:
In a major depressive episode, the following symptoms are present for at least 2 weeks:
*Feeling sad, blue, or down in the dumps or losing interest in the things one normally enjoys
*Plus at least 4 of the following symptoms:
-changes in appetite or weight
-changes in sleep
-difficulty thinking, concentrating, or making decisions
-feeling slowed down
-feeling worthless or guilty
-thoughts of death or suicide
Severe depression may also include hallucinations or delusions.[color=ff0000](Psychosis)[/color]
[color=0000ff]
"I doubt completely my ability to do anything well. It seems as though my mind has slowed down and burned out to the point of being virtually useless. [I am] haunt[ed]with the total, the desperate hopelessness of it all Others say, 'It's only temporary, it will pass, you will get over it.' But of course they haven't any idea of how I feel, although they are certain they do. If I can't feel, move, think, or care, then what on earth is the point?"[/color]
Mixed Episode 4:
In a mixed episode the symptoms of both a manic and major depressive episodes are experienced nearly every day for at least 1 week. This may be one of the most disabling episodes, as well as the greatest risk for suicide.
[color=ff0000]Psychosis[/color]
Psychosis is a mental and behavioral disorder in which a person has trouble telling the difference between what is real and what is not real. It may cause bizarre thoughts and behavior. A person with psychosis may have:
Delusions, which are firmly held but false beliefs. Irrational suspicion of others (paranoia) is a common delusion. The person may think others are watching or trying to hurt or even trying to kill him or her.
Hallucinations, which are false perceptions. Hallucinations can include seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling, or tasting things that are not really there. Personality changes.
-So, unless you have been there, don't questions as to WHY this or that was done to a person who is ther!! They have NO idea!! They will feel pressured into giving the uninformed an answer that will only lead into more questions. you will NEVER understand this disorder unless, as I said, YOU yourself have beeb there, or suffering from it yourself.
So if bandana truly suffers from this, be supportive, or be NOTHING at all!!
spearmaster
RIP Ted
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2001
- Location
- Heaven
Gamcare is not exactly GA, in that Gamcare also helps to set guidelines for responsible gambling - you might call them a much bigger, more involved group.
As I said, I do not know what they would do in a situation like this - but they are still through experience and connections way more likely to be able to do something than any of us are.
As I said, I do not know what they would do in a situation like this - but they are still through experience and connections way more likely to be able to do something than any of us are.
mrracetrack
Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2001
- Location
- North of Pluto
Dominique is a compulsive gambler.
That is quite obvious. Perhaps some other problems may also exist, but for this discussion and this situation, "compulsive gambler" is the key factor here.
Dominique has displayed all the signs and patterns of this illness. A compulsive gambler IS a disease, and is reconized as such by most of the people in the medical industry.
jpm, you are clueless about this. Absolutely clueless. For you to make this statement..."[color=0000ff] If you were really on the verge of homelessness and poverty, you wouldn't even THINK of dropping another 10 pounds to 'prove a point' since that money would represent the difference between eating and not eating for a day..."[/color] proves my point.
A compulsive gambler would gamble his or her last dollar, and worry about "eating" later. A compulsive gambler would continue to gamble with ANY available money, regardless of other obligations. Every last dollar!!
jpm, I have been involved in gambling for 36 years. I made my living gambling for 21 years.
I KNOW what compulsive gamblers do, and why.
Comments like you've made in this thread show how uneducated you are about this subject.
At least glodge has shown some awareness of this disease, and some compassion, unlike you.
The "Bottom Line" here, as I see it, is Dominique feels that William Hill was negligent by not protecting Dominique from herself, and allowing her to deposit far more money than their T&C dictated. And I feel she has a valid point with this.
Is William Hill "legally obligated" to refund her money? Probably not. Would it be the "right thing to do" in this specific situation? I believe it would be, if Dominique can substantiate her illness with valid medical documentation.
The sad part to this is that if Dominique DID get her money refunded, she would most likely gamble it away again, by any means accessable to her.
A compulsive gambler doesn't "Just Stop". They are helpless to control this.
I wish the best for you, Dominique.
That is quite obvious. Perhaps some other problems may also exist, but for this discussion and this situation, "compulsive gambler" is the key factor here.
Dominique has displayed all the signs and patterns of this illness. A compulsive gambler IS a disease, and is reconized as such by most of the people in the medical industry.
jpm, you are clueless about this. Absolutely clueless. For you to make this statement..."[color=0000ff] If you were really on the verge of homelessness and poverty, you wouldn't even THINK of dropping another 10 pounds to 'prove a point' since that money would represent the difference between eating and not eating for a day..."[/color] proves my point.
A compulsive gambler would gamble his or her last dollar, and worry about "eating" later. A compulsive gambler would continue to gamble with ANY available money, regardless of other obligations. Every last dollar!!
jpm, I have been involved in gambling for 36 years. I made my living gambling for 21 years.
I KNOW what compulsive gamblers do, and why.
Comments like you've made in this thread show how uneducated you are about this subject.
At least glodge has shown some awareness of this disease, and some compassion, unlike you.
The "Bottom Line" here, as I see it, is Dominique feels that William Hill was negligent by not protecting Dominique from herself, and allowing her to deposit far more money than their T&C dictated. And I feel she has a valid point with this.
Is William Hill "legally obligated" to refund her money? Probably not. Would it be the "right thing to do" in this specific situation? I believe it would be, if Dominique can substantiate her illness with valid medical documentation.
The sad part to this is that if Dominique DID get her money refunded, she would most likely gamble it away again, by any means accessable to her.
A compulsive gambler doesn't "Just Stop". They are helpless to control this.
I wish the best for you, Dominique.
At the end of the day we are all allowed our own opinions here. However someone's life is involved here & the outcome of this could have a devistating effect on their future.
With this said IMHO it is fair to say that be this from a mental illness or that of a gambling addiction, Dominique has a very REAL problem.
If WH & their daily / weekly / monthly deposit limits have been breached then it would seem that WH must wear responsibility for for this.
However IMHO this is not going to be a situation that will be addressed quickly, yet I feel; be this right or wrong, WH may fall due to public pressure & put forward an amicable solution to save their face & reputation.
With this said IMHO it is fair to say that be this from a mental illness or that of a gambling addiction, Dominique has a very REAL problem.
If WH & their daily / weekly / monthly deposit limits have been breached then it would seem that WH must wear responsibility for for this.
However IMHO this is not going to be a situation that will be addressed quickly, yet I feel; be this right or wrong, WH may fall due to public pressure & put forward an amicable solution to save their face & reputation.
Glodge,I have a problem with your comment about fraud.
The definition of Fraud, from the Oxford English Dictionary: Criminal deception; the using of FALSE REPRESENTATIONS to obtain an UNJUST ADVANTAGE or to injure the rights OR INTERESTS OF ANOTHER.
I have not done this,WH have, by stating a 1,000 pound limit a week and chosing not to implement it to their gain and my loss.I have been up front with them about what I have done,I have not tried to hide anything.
The definition of Fraud, from the Oxford English Dictionary: Criminal deception; the using of FALSE REPRESENTATIONS to obtain an UNJUST ADVANTAGE or to injure the rights OR INTERESTS OF ANOTHER.
I have not done this,WH have, by stating a 1,000 pound limit a week and chosing not to implement it to their gain and my loss.I have been up front with them about what I have done,I have not tried to hide anything.
bandana,
Given the fact that you brough up the chargeback issue, I was making a general view point.
However as you have giving the meaning as " FALSE REPRESENTATIONS to obtain an UNJUST ADVANTAGE "
In the context of purchasing casino credits of which I'm sure your not going to deny doing. To me the term fraud is pretty clear cut in regards to the function of chargebacks.
I think until we can establish concrete evidence that clearly shows that WH botched up their deposit limits, this case ufortunately will always be a he said, they said state of affairs.
No offense intended to anyone.
Given the fact that you brough up the chargeback issue, I was making a general view point.
However as you have giving the meaning as " FALSE REPRESENTATIONS to obtain an UNJUST ADVANTAGE "
In the context of purchasing casino credits of which I'm sure your not going to deny doing. To me the term fraud is pretty clear cut in regards to the function of chargebacks.
I think until we can establish concrete evidence that clearly shows that WH botched up their deposit limits, this case ufortunately will always be a he said, they said state of affairs.
No offense intended to anyone.
bandana,
I also like to add that I find it rather strange that even though your calling a foul now, I asume all the while in the 3 weeks your were fully aware of the limits set by WH; if these were current, yet still deposited 45,000 pound.
Sorry, but things just don't add up!
I also like to add that I find it rather strange that even though your calling a foul now, I asume all the while in the 3 weeks your were fully aware of the limits set by WH; if these were current, yet still deposited 45,000 pound.
Sorry, but things just don't add up!
Glodge, it does not surprise me that things don't add up for you, you don't listen.As far as evidence is concerned with regard to deposit limits,I have the page saved on my computer and dated 08/08/03, after my game play.
<table border=1><tr><td>WH - limits as of 08/08/03
William Hill Casino - Miscellaneous Questions.htm (16.1 k)</td></tr></table>
William Hill Casino - Miscellaneous Questions.htm (16.1 k)</td></tr></table>
Bandana,
If this ever went to court, I'm sure the cross examining would be by far worse than anything I could suggest. Without getting narky, your listening skills are not exactly primed either, so how about jumping down from your high horse!
Having this page saved on your PC really proves nothing. I think jpm brought up the issue regarding what limits are in the banking area of the software ( where you actually purchase credits ).
Unfortunately anything else I doubt is worth jack.
If this ever went to court, I'm sure the cross examining would be by far worse than anything I could suggest. Without getting narky, your listening skills are not exactly primed either, so how about jumping down from your high horse!
Having this page saved on your PC really proves nothing. I think jpm brought up the issue regarding what limits are in the banking area of the software ( where you actually purchase credits ).
Unfortunately anything else I doubt is worth jack.
Mrracetrack, you have proven my point for me exactly. My point was that this was compulsive gambling and not this other alleged mental illness that caused this situation. So thank you for proving my point, but you obviously didn't read what I was saying very carefully. I suspected this was compulsive gambling from the start, and I'm far from clueless on the subject. I've been involved in gambling for many (double digit) years as well but don't make my living from it, just supplement my life with it. I don't need to have gambled for as long as you or be a mental health expert in order to recognize this behavior. As for compassion, I expressed that early on, go back and read it. That was before it was obvious that she was trying to blame her compulsive gamling on another illness. And then go back and read the part where I told bandana to get into a GA program twice and to have her partner notify proccyber, casinos, etc. about her problem so they don't allow her to open new accounts. Reading is fundamental.
Jinnia, there has been no proof provided here that bandana is diagnosed bi-polar or anything else other than compulsive gambling and gambler's remorse, so I will continue to comment however I please. The fact that she defends keeping open a sportsbook account supports my contension even further."Why would I ask for my single(as far as I was concerned) sports acc to be closed when as far as I was concerned it was nothing to do with my casino account!" Problem gambler with remorse plain & simple.
Will Hill has no obligation to return any money, and no obligation to stop a problem gambler from playing at their casino. They may stop them out of courtesy or some moral sense, but there is nothing obligating them or any other online casino to do this. I'd say most of them wouldn't care one way or the other.
In the cashier interface it lists on the right side the limits EVERY TIME YOU DEPOSIT. Since she made approximately 450 deposits of 100 pounds each over about a 5 week period, I would expect that she'd have this screen memorized by now. Saying that this information is moot because the website said something different won't cut it when the limits are there in your face every time you make a deposit. When you are making over 10 deposits a day on average, at 100 pounds per deposit, you know damn well you are exceeding the 1000 pound limit you are now trying to use to your advantage.
And as I said before, you may be able to recover SOME of the money you lost because they did not recognize this compulsive behavior as quickly as they should have, since they claim to take steps to do just that. They may be partially negligent under this theory, but not totally. I do not believe they should refund all of the money however, since they were not totally at fault here.
I agree with mrracetrack though that any money refunded will most likely be gambled away again. No lesson will be learned and no help for the problem will be sought until there are some consequences for her actions. The cycle will just continue.
Jinnia, there has been no proof provided here that bandana is diagnosed bi-polar or anything else other than compulsive gambling and gambler's remorse, so I will continue to comment however I please. The fact that she defends keeping open a sportsbook account supports my contension even further."Why would I ask for my single(as far as I was concerned) sports acc to be closed when as far as I was concerned it was nothing to do with my casino account!" Problem gambler with remorse plain & simple.
Will Hill has no obligation to return any money, and no obligation to stop a problem gambler from playing at their casino. They may stop them out of courtesy or some moral sense, but there is nothing obligating them or any other online casino to do this. I'd say most of them wouldn't care one way or the other.
In the cashier interface it lists on the right side the limits EVERY TIME YOU DEPOSIT. Since she made approximately 450 deposits of 100 pounds each over about a 5 week period, I would expect that she'd have this screen memorized by now. Saying that this information is moot because the website said something different won't cut it when the limits are there in your face every time you make a deposit. When you are making over 10 deposits a day on average, at 100 pounds per deposit, you know damn well you are exceeding the 1000 pound limit you are now trying to use to your advantage.
And as I said before, you may be able to recover SOME of the money you lost because they did not recognize this compulsive behavior as quickly as they should have, since they claim to take steps to do just that. They may be partially negligent under this theory, but not totally. I do not believe they should refund all of the money however, since they were not totally at fault here.
I agree with mrracetrack though that any money refunded will most likely be gambled away again. No lesson will be learned and no help for the problem will be sought until there are some consequences for her actions. The cycle will just continue.
Do you feel like a MAN now JPM?You and glodge should have your own litte tea party,your like two old ladies banging on with closed,judgemental,minds!Whilst your last post was directed at me,you are now being rude to people like jinnia,where do you get off on that.What do you know about anything? What facts have you got infront of you?What have you experienced in your life?Try doing some research before commenting on depression and in turn compulsive gambling.Compulsive gambling is sometimes just the efect of depression.If your going to have an opinion,at least be informed,otherwise it makes you ignorant.Like you said,there is no proof of my illness,nobody has wanted or requested it,I am only too pleased to provide the right people with it.When you have not had sight either way of that,how can you make such a sweeping statement?They let me breach their contract,for their gain,how MANY times do I have to repeat myself?
spearmaster
RIP Ted
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2001
- Location
- Heaven
Bandana, did you call Gamcare?
If the lady is bipolar she will have documentation to prove so, no problem there and it is relevant.
I can type in to my address bar Outdated URL (Invalid) and land upon a site that offers an online bookie, a casino, a poker room, an arcade and a Billhill radio station..
In so doing one would imagine they are a collective venture but my little experience will say not, however, it would be difficult for Bryan to argue the same about his stuff above ie the rogue section etc.
If it's on 1 site then it's it's not impossible to imagine William Hill may allow
Even avenues that can be described as taking a shot in the dark are imo worth a go.
Is totally possible for a manic depressive to get uncontrollably caught up in this kind of thing and that is even with the correct medication and related, frequent checks as to the salt or whatever levels of the patient.
I wish you well Bandana girl. Honest.
I fear if you get some of your money back Dom you may do it again. I can only hope not for your sake.
I for 1 think Billhill should not have accepted so much in deposits and should bite the bullet and sharpen up in future regarding.
I can type in to my address bar Outdated URL (Invalid) and land upon a site that offers an online bookie, a casino, a poker room, an arcade and a Billhill radio station..
In so doing one would imagine they are a collective venture but my little experience will say not, however, it would be difficult for Bryan to argue the same about his stuff above ie the rogue section etc.
If it's on 1 site then it's it's not impossible to imagine William Hill may allow
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to mediate and if ibas say they will which i doubt, atleast the attempt has been made to exhaust all avenues.Even avenues that can be described as taking a shot in the dark are imo worth a go.
Is totally possible for a manic depressive to get uncontrollably caught up in this kind of thing and that is even with the correct medication and related, frequent checks as to the salt or whatever levels of the patient.
I wish you well Bandana girl. Honest.
I fear if you get some of your money back Dom you may do it again. I can only hope not for your sake.
I for 1 think Billhill should not have accepted so much in deposits and should bite the bullet and sharpen up in future regarding.
((jpm...Jinnia, there has been no proof provided here that bandana is diagnosed bi-polar or anything else other than compulsive gambling and gambler's remorse, so I will continue to comment however I please. The fact that she defends keeping open a sportsbook account supports my contension even further."Why would I ask for my single(as far as I was concerned) sports acc to be closed when as far as I was concerned it was nothing to do with my casino account!" Problem gambler with remorse plain & simple.))
As for showing her medical papers, no, no proof shown, but I unlike you tend to believe what a person says unless it's shown otherwise. I still believe in "Innocent til found guilty", instead of 'Guilty til found innocent'.
And showing a compulsive gambling personality would be one symptom a bipolar would show when in the manic state. Then remorse, confussion when in depressed state.
((so I will continue to comment however I please))
I'm sure you will!!
As for showing her medical papers, no, no proof shown, but I unlike you tend to believe what a person says unless it's shown otherwise. I still believe in "Innocent til found guilty", instead of 'Guilty til found innocent'.
And showing a compulsive gambling personality would be one symptom a bipolar would show when in the manic state. Then remorse, confussion when in depressed state.
((so I will continue to comment however I please))
I'm sure you will!!
((bandana...are now being rude to people like jinnia,where do you get off on that.What do you know about anything? What facts have you got infront of you?))
Thank you bandana, but I can handle or just ignore anyone who chooses to take me on.
I'm just a little tee'd that I spent over 1000 dollars on a new set of Encyclopedia's, when I could just come here..
Thank you bandana, but I can handle or just ignore anyone who chooses to take me on.
I'm just a little tee'd that I spent over 1000 dollars on a new set of Encyclopedia's, when I could just come here..
bandana,
I'm not doubting that mild to moderate depression could be a catalyst for someone to gamble compulsively. However depression is a byproduct of compulsive gambling. Which came first the chicken or the egg!
However speaking from my experience in relationship to my past depression/ manic states.
When I was trapped in the clutches of depression , I was incapable of doing even the most simplest of daily tasks.
It was not uncommon for me to spend 3 weeks locked in my bedroom, hardly eating, maybe showering once or twice a week, sleeping up to 18 hours a day and in essence trapped in a downward spiral of terror, fear, paranoia.
The last thing I'd want to do was gamble.
In reality, IMHO it is fair to say that jpm & myself are having a hard time believing that this is anything BUT a desperate ploy by a compulsive gambler, in an attempt to work an elusive loop hole in regards to WH.
A compulsive gambler who is in action, ( generalized overview ) will basically do anything & or say anything to feed their addiction and to stay active.
In the context that you originally based this thread on, through out this thread you have contradictions running rampant IMO. I for one am starting to find your claims to suffering from bi-polar hard to swallow.
If jpm, myself or anyone else does not believe you, why is this such a BIG DEAL to you. In my regard I'd simply know that I was suffering from a mental illness and leave it at that.
If people didn't believe me so what, but to turn to name calling and generally over reacting, throws ? marks up to the sincerity of this thread & your claims. Placing my thoery back to this being nothing more than a desperate plight of a compulsive gambler.
I'm not doubting that mild to moderate depression could be a catalyst for someone to gamble compulsively. However depression is a byproduct of compulsive gambling. Which came first the chicken or the egg!
However speaking from my experience in relationship to my past depression/ manic states.
When I was trapped in the clutches of depression , I was incapable of doing even the most simplest of daily tasks.
It was not uncommon for me to spend 3 weeks locked in my bedroom, hardly eating, maybe showering once or twice a week, sleeping up to 18 hours a day and in essence trapped in a downward spiral of terror, fear, paranoia.
The last thing I'd want to do was gamble.
In reality, IMHO it is fair to say that jpm & myself are having a hard time believing that this is anything BUT a desperate ploy by a compulsive gambler, in an attempt to work an elusive loop hole in regards to WH.
A compulsive gambler who is in action, ( generalized overview ) will basically do anything & or say anything to feed their addiction and to stay active.
In the context that you originally based this thread on, through out this thread you have contradictions running rampant IMO. I for one am starting to find your claims to suffering from bi-polar hard to swallow.
If jpm, myself or anyone else does not believe you, why is this such a BIG DEAL to you. In my regard I'd simply know that I was suffering from a mental illness and leave it at that.
If people didn't believe me so what, but to turn to name calling and generally over reacting, throws ? marks up to the sincerity of this thread & your claims. Placing my thoery back to this being nothing more than a desperate plight of a compulsive gambler.
I agree 100% glodge.
Jinnia, its not guilty until proven innocent, just very skeptical given the large amount of fraudsters and scammers that post here. Using a diagnosis of a more serious illness to try to get the casino to be sympathetic and refund compulsive gambling losses and refusal to admit that there is a gambling problem is what's irritating me. This is evidenced by going back and gambling there again, defending the keeping of other gambling accounts open, and making excuses for not contacting Gamcare. I was sympathetic until this came out, even offering suggestions on how to recoup some of the lost funds. (BTW, I would have sold you a dozen encyclopedia cd's for 1/2 what you spent! Much easier to carry too)
Bandana, I was not being rude to jinnia, just responding to the mandate that if I haven't been thru it, then I can't comment. Go back and read what I've posted previously as far as experience with bipolar/compulsive people. (I won't even go into how a friend I'd know since age 5 was so depressed that he blew his head off at 33 years of age using a gun he essentially stole from his brother without leaving his wife or family so much as a note)
The facts I have in front of me are the ones you've provided which to me and others show that you are a classic compulsive gambler. You may or may not also be bi-polar, but you definately have a gambling problem. Stop making excuses for not getting help for it and call Gamcare. And you had NO contract with Will Hill to breach, the limits are clearly spelled out EVERY TIME you made a deposit.
Jinnia, its not guilty until proven innocent, just very skeptical given the large amount of fraudsters and scammers that post here. Using a diagnosis of a more serious illness to try to get the casino to be sympathetic and refund compulsive gambling losses and refusal to admit that there is a gambling problem is what's irritating me. This is evidenced by going back and gambling there again, defending the keeping of other gambling accounts open, and making excuses for not contacting Gamcare. I was sympathetic until this came out, even offering suggestions on how to recoup some of the lost funds. (BTW, I would have sold you a dozen encyclopedia cd's for 1/2 what you spent! Much easier to carry too)
Bandana, I was not being rude to jinnia, just responding to the mandate that if I haven't been thru it, then I can't comment. Go back and read what I've posted previously as far as experience with bipolar/compulsive people. (I won't even go into how a friend I'd know since age 5 was so depressed that he blew his head off at 33 years of age using a gun he essentially stole from his brother without leaving his wife or family so much as a note)
The facts I have in front of me are the ones you've provided which to me and others show that you are a classic compulsive gambler. You may or may not also be bi-polar, but you definately have a gambling problem. Stop making excuses for not getting help for it and call Gamcare. And you had NO contract with Will Hill to breach, the limits are clearly spelled out EVERY TIME you made a deposit.
mrracetrack
Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2001
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Posted by jpm...
"..And you had NO contract with Will Hill to breach, the limits are clearly spelled out EVERY TIME you made a deposit..."
jpm, correct me if I'm wrong in interpreting your comments, but are you trying to say that since the deposit limit is posted, therefore it's on the PLAYER to abide by them?
If you ARE saying that, and that's what it appears to me, you are 100% wrong.
The casino sets the deposit limits, and the onus is on the casino to enforce them.
If it states on the website that the limit is $2500 a week max deposit, yet the casino "allows" someone to deposit ten times that amount, what would be the point of posting a set limit?
Please tell me your not implying that the PLAYER is responsible for staying under the posted limit.
jpm, I get the feeling from your numerous posts all over this board, that if you were an "arbitrator" for Player vs Casino, you would find in favor of the casino 99% of the time.
Your comment of "this board is full of fraudsters", and your basic "contempt" for most everyone that posts any type of problem with a casino, leads me to that opinion of you.
You always seem to imply that you "know" when someone is lying, cheating, or has "violated the T&C".
Who died and left you boss??
You sell a lot of "Wolf Tickets", my friend.
I, for one, am not buying it. And other than Glodge, it appears that no one else is, either.
Glodge.... You certainly seem to have switched horses in midstream. From a once pleasant and friendly poster, you have apparently been going to "jpm school" and have passed with flying colors. Maybe your meds need adjusting. Or maybe your attitude. Or both.
"..And you had NO contract with Will Hill to breach, the limits are clearly spelled out EVERY TIME you made a deposit..."
jpm, correct me if I'm wrong in interpreting your comments, but are you trying to say that since the deposit limit is posted, therefore it's on the PLAYER to abide by them?
If you ARE saying that, and that's what it appears to me, you are 100% wrong.
The casino sets the deposit limits, and the onus is on the casino to enforce them.
If it states on the website that the limit is $2500 a week max deposit, yet the casino "allows" someone to deposit ten times that amount, what would be the point of posting a set limit?
Please tell me your not implying that the PLAYER is responsible for staying under the posted limit.
jpm, I get the feeling from your numerous posts all over this board, that if you were an "arbitrator" for Player vs Casino, you would find in favor of the casino 99% of the time.
Your comment of "this board is full of fraudsters", and your basic "contempt" for most everyone that posts any type of problem with a casino, leads me to that opinion of you.
You always seem to imply that you "know" when someone is lying, cheating, or has "violated the T&C".
Who died and left you boss??
You sell a lot of "Wolf Tickets", my friend.
I, for one, am not buying it. And other than Glodge, it appears that no one else is, either.
Glodge.... You certainly seem to have switched horses in midstream. From a once pleasant and friendly poster, you have apparently been going to "jpm school" and have passed with flying colors. Maybe your meds need adjusting. Or maybe your attitude. Or both.
Genuine sympathy for out-of-control gamblers always colours these debates when they surface, and that compassion is as it should be imo. There were some fierce exchanges on WOL a few years ago where a gambler in trouble started posting as is the case here and it split the readership for some time with conflicting views.
But JPM's earlier comments about nine posts back to me presented a reasoned argument and a good explanation for his opinions. I don't think Bandana has helped her cause by her actions this week, and these have left me with some uncomfortable doubts, too I'm afraid.
Wm Hill have not handled this matter well either. There is no doubt, as JPM has pointed out on at least two occasions that they should have picked up this compulsive gambling pattern a lot earlier and done something about it, and the arrogant manner in which they have handled the issue or even refused to accept a genuine mediation does not reflect well on Robert Sadler or for that matter the CEO who has ignored Bandana's emails.
Bandana, you have been given some good advice in this thread - for your own good you should take it.
But JPM's earlier comments about nine posts back to me presented a reasoned argument and a good explanation for his opinions. I don't think Bandana has helped her cause by her actions this week, and these have left me with some uncomfortable doubts, too I'm afraid.
Wm Hill have not handled this matter well either. There is no doubt, as JPM has pointed out on at least two occasions that they should have picked up this compulsive gambling pattern a lot earlier and done something about it, and the arrogant manner in which they have handled the issue or even refused to accept a genuine mediation does not reflect well on Robert Sadler or for that matter the CEO who has ignored Bandana's emails.
Bandana, you have been given some good advice in this thread - for your own good you should take it.
MrR makes a very good point regarding casino limits and the responsibility for enforcing them, but my perception is that JPM was simply pointing out that Bandana could not possibly have missed the *real* limits at the cashier point if not onsite. That is a major part of her dispute with Wm Hill.
I would have to disagree with MrR about JPM's style and contribution here, however. In my opinion he is a balanced and sensible poster who in general appears knowledgable and helpful to others. And was the rather harsh tone of the post concerned really necessary?
I would have to disagree with MrR about JPM's style and contribution here, however. In my opinion he is a balanced and sensible poster who in general appears knowledgable and helpful to others. And was the rather harsh tone of the post concerned really necessary?
((jpm:: Jinnia, its not guilty until proven innocent, just very skeptical given the large amount of fraudsters and scammers that post here. Using a diagnosis of a more serious illness to try to get the casino to be sympathetic and refund compulsive gambling losses and refusal to admit that there is a gambling problem is what's irritating me.))
I agree, there are many fraudsters and scammers. No doubt in my mind about that.
((refusal to admit that there is a gambling problem is what's irritating me))
If bandana is actually suffering from this disorder, in her mind, it isn't a problem, unless a bit of reality hits home during the 'tween times of the mood swing. And depending on the severity of the disorder, reality come around that often, if at all.
((Using a diagnosis of a more serious illness to try to get the casino to be sympathetic and refund compulsive gambling losses))
Lets put it this way since you are hung up on Compulsive Gambling .. Yes, when having this disorder it can "mimic" symptoms of a compulsive gambler for you'll blow money in any means made readily available to you, and just maybe online gambling was the easiest for her to do that. And by Depositing again, saying just to prove a point (what ever she said reason) is typical of bipolar (psychosis) behaviour.
Anyway, seems we are ALL stubborn on this issue with our own views, beliefs..etc. I've only butted heads with people off and on, but not locked horns yet, I really don't want to for it wouldn't be good and here isn't the place for it.... So I'll just say......
If William Hill wants all this stopped, I see they need to at least work with Bandana, since they posted on their site about certain deposit limits, their software should have stopped any further deposits being made once that limit was reached. I see it as being on William Hill to have made it impossible to deposit more than their posted limit!
They need to work at getting this settled instead of ignoring it, at least ask for medical papers from bandana that shows she actually suffers this from this disorder.
I agree, there are many fraudsters and scammers. No doubt in my mind about that.
((refusal to admit that there is a gambling problem is what's irritating me))
If bandana is actually suffering from this disorder, in her mind, it isn't a problem, unless a bit of reality hits home during the 'tween times of the mood swing. And depending on the severity of the disorder, reality come around that often, if at all.
((Using a diagnosis of a more serious illness to try to get the casino to be sympathetic and refund compulsive gambling losses))
Lets put it this way since you are hung up on Compulsive Gambling .. Yes, when having this disorder it can "mimic" symptoms of a compulsive gambler for you'll blow money in any means made readily available to you, and just maybe online gambling was the easiest for her to do that. And by Depositing again, saying just to prove a point (what ever she said reason) is typical of bipolar (psychosis) behaviour.
Anyway, seems we are ALL stubborn on this issue with our own views, beliefs..etc. I've only butted heads with people off and on, but not locked horns yet, I really don't want to for it wouldn't be good and here isn't the place for it.... So I'll just say......
If William Hill wants all this stopped, I see they need to at least work with Bandana, since they posted on their site about certain deposit limits, their software should have stopped any further deposits being made once that limit was reached. I see it as being on William Hill to have made it impossible to deposit more than their posted limit!
They need to work at getting this settled instead of ignoring it, at least ask for medical papers from bandana that shows she actually suffers this from this disorder.
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