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William Hill - What customer service!

Bandana -

Make SURE you do it today. There is zero point in procrastinating and leaving it over the weekend. The bank should be the least of your worries.

Every day you let pass by without seeking the right assistance detracts from your claim. There will be a point where someone will tell you "Too late - you should have come to us right away."

I cannot emphasize this point more strongly.
 
Firstly, I agree 100% with Jinnia. I truly believe that Bandana is sick as she claims to be.
My irritation does not lie with Bandana, as it does with WH. Tell me, how does a casino KNOW that a player is lying without even asking for her medical documentation? Additionally, WH is definitely responsible for overseeing that their players obide by the depositing limits. I have been stopped many times due to hitting my deposit limit for the week. In my opinion, WH was tickled pink when they saw Bandana depositing her life savings into their casino. It is also quite obvious that they do not care about their players as long as the money keeps pouring in.

I think WH should come and post their reasons for coming to the conclusion that Bandana is not ill and they will not refund her monies.

What a crappy world we live in!!!! Its amazing how the all mighty dollar has more worth than that of a human being.
 
jpm, the fact that you think I am a compulsive gambler,does not really alter anything.WH (until the re-design) printed on their code of conduct page :7. Controlling Compulsive Gambling
William Hill Casino is committed to detecting and reducing compulsive gambling. Our procedures include monthly deposit limits and analysis of gambling patterns.

Well they clearly do not have procedures that they state.With their revised deposit limits you can spend 200,000 pounds a month with them and they do not ,or not in my case analyise gambling patterns.I am not avoiding Gamcare,spear gave me a contact there and I used it and I had written to them prior to that as well,the fact that they had not got back to me,I assumed that they either could not help or are very busy.I will be getting in touch with them again today. Glodge,just because gambling was on your list of things to be manic about,does not mean anything other than we are all different.And as for me getting defensive,yes I know whats wrong with me and no one can take that away,but I think it is human nature to defend oneself when being attacked un justly.
 
First off, WH definitely is responsible regarding the deposit limits. However, one of the things that is making some of us skeptical is that intentionally or not, you bandana seem to be putting all the problems on WH, than on yourself. Plus the fact you went back and deposited again.
If I'm wrong, then I apologize.

There's been alot of good advice in this thread, some of it might not be what you want to hear, but when you pos a problem of this significance you're going to get all sides of it.

I am also another who has manic depression and an anxiety disorder, and like the others here I know how horrible it can get.
Gambling can be one way some people show it, but it can also be the other way around, a double-edged sword if you will.

I truly hope you get going with Gamcare, and that you receive regular counseling for your depression.

One thing I noticed in your original post: you stated that a doctor did claim you were incapable of working due to the illness. If you live in the USA, then you probably then received SSI / SSD.
Which means that there ARE papers stating that you are mentally incompetant, from both the doctor and Social Security. You said you didn't have any papers, but if all of the above is true, dig around, you'll find them.

Lastly, I resent the little pot shots taken on depression in this thread. I've been following this, but after MrR's remark about "having your meds adjusted" I'd had enough.
Being one who is on meds for this, I'm offended by that petty remark. That's an easy line to throw out as a cheap insult, but when you're a person who's been living with this illness and on medication for years, you get pissed off by this crap. So if you haven't lived it, step off.

I will now step off my Paxil soapbox. ;)
 
Hi Deeg,

Thanks for posting. I don't have medical papers myself but I would have no problems obtaining them.I have copies of doctors notes signing me off but would think that WH or whoever would want originals and that is no problem.I have been in counselling. I am now and have been for some time on a waiting list to see a psychologist to have a course of treatment.Off course to get on a waiting list even you have to have an assesment,which took place sometime ago.I am sorry you feel that I am putting everything on WH.I know and I am addressing I have problems,with regard to the money however,yes I am looking to them.Of course I want my money back,but it makes you wonder if I am not the only one this has happened to(I am sure I am not ) I feel that if a company advertise saftey measures for people who are ill (compulsive gambling) then they should not just advertise them,but also impliment them.I also think if they advertise limits that they should implement those too.If you purchase a food product and it states on the side of the box " contains NO traces of nuts " and you had a nut allergy, you would not then go looking on every other side of the box to make sure,you would just except what you had read.If you then ate the product and got ill or died,surley the company would have to take responsability and be accountable.At best its consumer mis-representation,which is what I am saying here. I am sorry to hear you too suffer with depression, take care,deeg.
 
Bandana,
I am a little confused here. I used to suffer from depression/anxiety and have "panic attacks".
However,I was put on meds immediately to take care of my condition and I am fine now. Earlier you posted that one night you went to the emergency room with a "query heart attack", this is very common with people in an anxious state. I too have had this happen quite a few times. But,
I have to admit my doctors never told me to "take a holiday", instead they instructed me to continue with my psychiatrist and watch my meds.
Your post above says that you have seen a counselor. A counselor is not able to prescribe medication, they are "talking doctors". You said you have been assessed and have been waiting quite sometime on a waiting list to see a psychologist. Bandana, from what I have read you have not ever seen a psychiatrist on a regular basis, and if you have been rushed to the ER for anxiety induced heart scares, why were you not admitted and had treatment? The way you are describing your medical care, I am interested to know what doctor "signed you off" and what does that mean. Before anyone says that I know nothing of this disease, I think you should all know that my case was so severe that I could not leave my house for two years when I was 19.
 
Hi Linda7, No,thats correct,my counsellor could never perscribe me anything.When my illness first started about two years ago,I went to the doctor,I didn't really know what was happening to me.The doctor put me on seroxat and after a couple of weeks I felt abit better,not alot,and I don't even know if better is the right word,but I was able to function abit more,as in had some energy,would shower and could manage to go out a little to buy essentials.However a whole chain of events that were very difficult,more difficult than the one that seemed to trigger my illness started.On top of that I started to feel very weird in my body and my body was doing weird things,ie: if I touched my skin,I would just bruise,I was black and blue at one point but I was not self harming nor was I being beaten.With the chain of events that went off, I started drinking,the pills did not seem to be helping and things got much worse.I went back to the doctor who switch my pills to Citalopram.These made me feel awfull.I stuck with them for a while and then stoped takin them.I went to see a counselor,but I did that on a private basis as the waiting list was so long on the NHS.I only went for 3 months as I could not afford it after that.Then more ongoing stuff kept happening in my life.I too got to the point where I could not even go out for a pint of milk and that lasted for months.My mind felt very mad at this time and I really thought I as losing it.I ended up in hospital,not long before I sold my home,moving and everthing attached to it was really increasing my anxiety.The doctors at the hospital and the paramedics said a holiday would not be a bad thing,once they had established if there was anything of a very stressful nature going off in my life.I had seen the doctor not long before this happened and said that I had stoped my pills as they were making me feel awfull,but that I was concerned as I had alot of practical things that I had to do (as in find somewhere to live and sell my home) he gave me a different pill and said he would send my for a psychological assessment as he thought it would be helpful.The assesment took place and I am on a waiting list.I did go on holiday,2 days after I moved,felt very anxious the whole time and it did not help in any way.When I got back was when I really looped out.The move and having to re-home my dogs sent me quite nuts I think.I went back to not wanting to leave my home and it was at this time that I was playing at WH.I am up and down,some days are better than others.If I really push myself on the slightly better days I can make it out,but I really hate it and get quite panicky.Some days I cannot even deal with the phone.So,the doctor is the one that gives me pills and signs me off.I don't know where you live,but I live in the UK and whilst our NHS is good for some illnesses,it is not great for mental health problems,not in my experience in any case.
 
Thanks Jinnia, that is enlightening.

The problem is that will hill's limits are posted in the cashier deposit window which she had to have seen at least 300-400 times. They are the actual limits which are much higher than 1000# limit posted on the old website. That's why it was allowed.

What should not have been allowed was the pattern of an average 10+ deposits and losses per day for weeks without flagging it as a gambling problem and locking the account. That is where Will Hill is at fault.

Interestingly enough, they older versions of software used to have a place where you could set your own deposit limits, but that seems to have been removed in the current version. At least I haven't been able to find it again.
 
Posted by mrracetrack:

jpm, correct me if I'm wrong in interpreting your comments, but are you trying to say that since the deposit limit is posted, therefore it's on the PLAYER to abide by them?

No, that's not at all what I'm saying. And I agree that would be 100% wrong. What I meant was: bandana was saying the website posted a 1000# limit on deposits but she was able to do much more than that, and therefore Will Hill was responsible. But in the deposit window within the cashier part of the s/w (that is displayed on each of the 400 or so deposits she made) it lists the deposit limits, which were much higher than the 1000# limit that had previously been shown on the webpage. She seemed to have expected this to be enforced (maybe in hindsight), but on average made over 1000# of deposits each day. So saying you didn't realize that the 1000# limit was not being enforced is hard to believe. Again, saying that the erroneous 1000# limit on the website was the reason just won't fly since the real limits were displayed to her hundreds of times in the cashier window. Her best course for recovery will be that Will Hill did not recognize a problem gambler and lock her account over this 3-5 week spree as they claim they take steps to do. She had to tell them to close the account.

Your comment of "this board is full of fraudsters", and your basic "contempt" for most everyone that posts any type of problem with a casino, leads me to that opinion of you.

If you are going to quote me, please quote me CORRECTLY. I said I was "...just very skeptical given the large amount of fraudsters and scammers that post here." I stand by that. Look at the recent complaints from people who have 'had their deposits stolen by x casino', and were later shown to have had multiple accounts, or claiming multiple signup bonuses, or not following the posted rules and then crying fowl. And I don't have contempt for 'everyone that posts any type of problem', which is obvious if you'd read every post I've made rather than just the few that we've butted heads in.

And yes, I do get a pretty good gut feeling of when some people are lying or cheating. As for when they are violating T&C, that's simple reading comprehension. They are black & white, not grey. You've either complied with them or you didn't.

I have no idea what a 'wolf ticket' is, so I haven't a clue what you're talking about there. I think glodge 'switched horses' about the same time I did after seeing the same thing I did.

BTW, your personal attack on myself and glodge was totally inappropriate, especially considering glodge's history which he posted here. I've never attacked you personally and have never seen glodge do so either. I for one expect the same courtesy from you.
 
Bandana wrote:

WH (until the re-design) printed on their code of conduct page :7. Controlling Compulsive Gambling
William Hill Casino is committed to detecting and reducing compulsive gambling. Our procedures include monthly deposit limits and analysis of gambling patterns.

I agree bandana, this is where they fell down as they did not detect and stop this behavior.

I don't want to see you lose any more money so please call Gamcare and get some help for this problem. That is priority one, recovering some of the lost money is priority two.
 
Bandana:
I totally understand how horrible it is to be in the throws of this mental illness. There is a Doctor who wrote alot on this topic, her name is Dr. Claire Weekes. She explains why we spiral downward and why our bodies do the wierd things to us that they do. I promise you that anything that is going on or any new illnesses you may feel, such as vertigo, skipped heart beats, churning stomach, etc. are just symptoms and they mean nothing. Dr. Weekes' books are titled "Hope and Help for your Nerves", "Peace from Nervous Suffering", and "More Hope and Help for your Nerves". They are paperback and very easy to read. They are dedicated to people like us who suffer from anxiety/depression. I know that you are short with money and I would be more than happy to buy you the books and send them to you. Trust me Bandana, they are life savers! When my Dad died in 1996, my anxiety went through the roof, between my doctor and re-reading these books, I was able to pull it together. My heart breaks for you and I want to help.

(((hugs and love))) Linda
 
Jetset posted..."..was the rather harsh tone of the post concerned really necessary?..."

Perhaps not "necessary", but intended to strongly make my point, not to start a battle.

Posted by deeg... "..Lastly, I resent the little pot shots taken on depression in this thread. I've been following this, but after MrR's remark about "having your meds adjusted" I'd had enough.
Being one who is on meds for this, I'm offended by that petty remark..."

Deeg, I apologize if that reference offended you, as "the little pot shots taken on depression in this thread" was not my meaning for that comment.

I myself take anti depressants. Zoloft. And I HAVE had the dosage adjusted. Yes, the comment was made to show my irritation, but not as a "cheap shot" at people who take this medication.

Perhaps mine needs to be adjusted further, Ya' think?? :eek:

And on to jpm... who posted..."Your comment of "this board is full of fraudsters", and your basic "contempt" for most everyone that posts any type of problem with a casino, leads me to that opinion of you."

If you are going to quote me, please quote me CORRECTLY. I said I was "...just very skeptical given the large amount of fraudsters and scammers that post here." I stand by that...."

jpm..."this board is full of fraudsters", and "the large amount of fraudsters" is basically the same thing. Picky, Picky.

Anyway... You're wrong. How many "documented" cases have there been? 4 or 5? Not "allegations, but "proven". 5 Tops! I don't think that's a "large amount", considering the amount of people who post here.

Next... "...And I don't have contempt for 'everyone that posts any type of problem', which is obvious if you'd read every post I've made rather than just the few that we've butted heads in..."

Well, you could have fooled me. And I have read about 90% of your 636 posts. Along with everyone elses. That way, I DO have some background on which to base my opinions.

I have nothing against you personally, jpm. I just disagree with a lot of what you post. And I'm certainly willing and able to engage in an adult discussion on a given topic.

My style of "abrasivness" and "sarcasm" may annoy some, but it doesn't offset the fact that what I post has relevance to the topic being discussed, and contains a point of view that differs from yours.

And... "...BTW, your personal attack on myself and glodge was totally inappropriate, especially considering glodge's history which he posted here..."

jpm, you are very much entitled to your opinion of me, and what I post. I have no problem with that at all.

"... I've never attacked you personally and have never seen glodge do so either. I for one expect the same courtesy from you..."

I don't feel I "attacked" you. I stated my "opposing viewpoint" in a way that I felt was appropriate. Guess I'm just not "as courteous" as you are.

And last but not least... ".. I have no idea what a 'wolf ticket' is.."

LOL..."selling wolf tickets"... is a slang way of saying you're bluffing or bullshitting someone.

jpm... Don't take things so seriously. It's a gambling forum, not the senate. There is more to life that actually means something.
 
I'm probably not going to win any popularity contest with this post, but then again I've never been one to follow.

Bandana
Contact Gamcare. Trying to chase your lost money is a second priority, IMHO your first priority should be avoiding losing any further money to your gambling problem.

There are a lot of people here trying to help you bandana including myself, but we didn't find out until you wanted to prove some point that you had a further sportsbook accounts at WH.

Sorry but this to me signals that maybe your not being as open as you should be in regards to this matter.

If you've got nothing to hide, why did you not state this in the begining?

Maybe you can now see why I changed my views towards this issue.

It also surprises me that WH has not commented or made any attempt that I'm aware of to address this issue, apart from the e-mails sent back and forth.

With this amount of publicity & the fact that you'd go to the press if need be, why is it that WH does not seem that concerned?

Are they aware of something we don't know!

Bandana can you see my quandary?

----------------
Yes WH states on their site that they take a pro active stand towards monitoring compulsive gambling behaviour. Unfortunately I'm yet to hear of any casino actually locking or banning a player based on compulsive gambling behaviour, and I've been around this industry since 97.

As they say one persons fortune, is anothers chump change.

IMO it's advertising propaganda, it helps lift the casino's intregrity & further enhances their moral / business ethics.
 
Linda7, thanks for your post,it really touched me,that a stranger would be willing to buy me a book and would want to help me.
Glodge,I am sorry that you think I have not been open in these postings and that in your mind I with held info (sports book account ) The reason I did not mention it,was I had forgotton.I am 99.9 % sure that I never used it,if I did it was once.That account was opened in the first place because at the time I thoght that was how you would deposit in the casino.I had not downloaded the casino at that time and did not know about ecash.Please try and remember I was abit out to lunch at the time.I do not bet on sports.To say I never have would be a lie,but very rarely and I would walk into a bookies to do that or use a telephone betting service.As for WH not getting back to me,your guess is as good as mine.I don't know if you live in the UK Glodge,but this is a huge company and I guess they think they are big enough to not be damaged by this.Spear, I did contact Michael at Gamcare again yesterday, not by phone as I was having a bad one.I sent an e mail to him and I know it was read as I always request a read reciept when I send mail of that nature.He got it like he got the others and is not getting back to me - why I have no idea!
 
Oh,and by the the way,this stuff about the ammount of deposits I made - On the account transactions that they eventually sent me,it shows that some days(most days) I made approx:15-18 deposits,not 10. I do not remember seeing anything else about limits in the main casino,I was not looking for it,I had read what I had read whilst the casino was downloading.I cannot get into the casino now to see it as it is locked,but Sirrius said that it is there but in very smaill print on the right hand side,in other words on the opposite side to where your typing.
 
"jpm... Don't take things so seriously. It's a gambling forum, not the senate. There is more to life that actually means something."

Good point - perhaps all the more reason for courtesy and control?
 
bandana,

At the end of the day, regardless of anything else, I'd simply like to know that your getting the help you need; be this gambling & or your mental well being.
 
Next time put "Referred by Spearmaster" in the subject line.

I think you really need to pick up the phone. It was already clear earlier that he isn't or wasn't responding to emails so the phone should have been the next option - I must point out to you that this no longer seems to be as desperate an issue as you made it out to be in the beginning.
 
Thanks for your concern glodge.

Spear, I put spearmaster/your real name in the subjuct heading twice.It is a desperate situation,one that I am dealing with to the best of my ability.Somedays I just cannot handle the phone.He has obviously read the emails,if the guy does not want to help,then I guess thats up to him.
 
It's his job to help. Whether he likes it or not, he is supposed to be able to assist.

I continue to recommend the phone. If you really are in a desperate position then there should be no hesitation in picking up the phone yourself (do not delegate this task).
 
LOL..."selling wolf tickets"... is a slang way of saying you're bluffing or bullshitting someone.

That's the first I've ever heard that expression, lol. Thanks for the explaination, is it a UK expression perhaps? Reminds me of one or two that I've heard from some UK friends.

jpm... Don't take things so seriously. It's a gambling forum, not the senate. There is more to life that actually means something.

On this we agree 100% MrR. Note this on your calendar, it could be a first!
 
will hill's bj is rigged one on one. The best is to play u and one other person and u be dealt to first. I want someone to play there so I can test this theory. Do not play by yourself u cannot win.
 
I'm on the 'compulsive gambler with remorse' side of this conversation but I do have one question. In the third email from the casino what does this mean?
-------
Quote: In your previous correspondence you stated that there was a discrepancy in the account statement. If you send me proof of this I will arrange for the 60 to be reimbursed.
-------
Where's the other email from your partner and what's the discrepancy of 60? I thought it was for 45,000
 
Ginger...... Before the account was closed and when I first told my partner what had happened,my partner tried to download the account statements from WH site.There for some reason were only three dates showing.On one of the dates there was a clear mistake in their favour of 40 pounds.Robert Sadler asked for this and said if there was a mistake they would reimburse.A copy of that statement with the mistake was sent to him and they got out of it,more or less by saying it was a typo error.I was not that interested in the 40 pounds I just wanted them to know and admit that they can and do make mistakes.Hope that answers your question
 
I called my telephone company and asked for itemised billing for the time I was playing with WH.I have been going through this today and comparing it with the game logs they sent to me.The game logs show I was online when I was not.What should I do now,any suggestions?
 
Hi Bandana,

Are you implying that someone else was playing and not you? Could it be that their game servers are in a different time zone?

Has Michael still not responded to your emails?
 
CM.... The logs are in a different time zone I think. It does not tell you what time zone.I am in GMT if the logs were in GMT then I would not have been playing for over half the time.I am assuming that they are in EST which makes sense of the times that I was playing.If you compare the logs to the phone records based on this then it has me playing eg: 12.52pm but I actually got off the phone at 12.48pm.
No, Michael has not responded.
Spear... What do you mean, what is the point of getting logs? There is a point to everything that I am doing,would you not look at everything if this had happened to you? And what do you mean about picking up the phone? Pick up the phone to who- WH? If thats what you mean there is no point,CS is totally useless!
 
Spear... Please respect the fact that I don't always find it very easy to pick the phone up.I don't see what difference it makes anyway,Michael has my emails and is not responding.You were not clear in your posting,I did not know what you meant and as you made the reference after asking why I was bothering with logs I thought you may of meant WH.
 
Also, does anyone know what I should do with what I have found out (phone records/logs) Should I go to the police? I am not on the phone when I was supposedley in the games at the casino!What could cause that?I have found out that the time zone for the logs is EST, 5 hours behind GMT and with that in mind it is wrong, only by minutes not hours,but nevertheless WRONG!
 
Between your desperation to recover your funds and picking the phone up, I'd have to say you seem more afraid of picking up the phone than the fact that you may never recover your funds.

Forgive me for sounding harsh - but since you don't seem to want to respond to reasonable advice I don't think there is much else anyone here can do to help.

The logs are useless. You know that you played and that you lost. You never claimed that anyone else broke into your account and used up your funds.

Also, wrong by minutes - you DO realize that NOT all clocks are set by the atomic clock servers... a 4 minute difference most certainly is not going to be cause for concern to anyone.
 
Spear..Please do not speak to me like that,it is not necessary.I did what you advised and contacted Michael.Gamcare can't recover my funds,can they?I never stated that anyone broke into my account and stole my funds,but I have stated that I am sure I did not spend anywhere near what went from my account.I have also stated that on the statements from WH there are discrepancies.What if there was some sort of bug,what if someone was in my account? All I am saying is WH won't talk to me, or answer my questions about the disprepancies,as nobody there is doing their homework checking anything,I have to do it. The logs are also in $'s. Someone said this is probally just a typo error. So, we have typo error's, wrong times, money errors in the statements, a limit which they allowed me to break and no procedures put in place to stop compulsive gambling,even though they stated there were.This is not straight forward, there are many issues,oh and lets not forget,logs that are incomplete! Money transactions have taken place,just like they do in a bank.If you got a bank statement that was all wrong,would you just except it or would you turn it upside down and rip it apart? Typo errors and wrong times are just not good enough when you are dealing with thousands of pounds. If there servers are not set by the atomic clock,what is the point in putting times on transactions and game play.How are the transactions timed? I am using the transaction sheets with the phone records.The game log times do not match the transaction sheets at all.As for me not wanting to respond to resonable advice,therefore no one here being able to help.I have taken the advice,but am pretty concerned about getting some/all of my money back,can't you understand that?I am asking direct questions for advice with what I have found and all you can do is repeat yourself about Gamcare.I CAN HEAR YOU, SPEAR!
 
Gamcare, first of all, can help make sure it doesn't happen again.

Second of all, they MAY - I repeat, MAY - be able to help recover something. Don't think that I am just sending you there to "dry out" - if that was all that was involved I wouldn't have bothered after the first time.

When you get sick, you don't treat yourself. When you have a problem with others, you don't try to do everything yourself.

Get people who KNOW what they are doing to help you. The more you start chasing loose ends without a result, the more frustrated you are going to get.

Telephone logs will not help your case. If you have the game logs, you should also have the total "cost" to you. If that total matches up, there won't be much you can do - you will have a very difficult time proving fraud.

If you are not willing to talk to Gamcare - by phone - and find out what they can do for you, then I'm afraid that's about all I can do. I do know what I am talking about, and you have been given pretty sound advice - but you continue to go down dead-end streets as if you thought you dropped your wallet somewhere.
 
The best advice you've been given is to get help for this compulsive gambling problem, but you are so resistant do doing that for some reason. Why can you call WH and talk to their customer support people and you can call the telephone company to ask for these records, but can't call Gamcare? You seem to only want help in getting your money back, not with the bigger problem of the compulsive gambling. Getting the money back only gives you a second chance to lose it without getting help for the problem gambling.

Now you're nitpicking over phone records and timestamps that are off by 4 minutes, which is really nothing considering the phone company has its own clock that it goes by, and the casino servers have their own clock that they go by. A 4 minute difference is virtually no difference. And you already stated that you did play and lose the money, but now you're trying to show that someone else must have been playing on your account. This is really grasping at straws.

I'm sure that the casino logged your IP address each time you connected to them, and could match that up with your ISP's logs for each time you connected to them and were assigned an IP address. That would show better than the phone records whether it was you playing or not if you're really concerned about proving it.
 
Spear...Thank you,I do think that Gamcare have been in touch with WH because of all the info now printed on the re-designed site,so as far as it happening again,hopefully it won't.Having said that,until WH impose sensible limits it probally will.I will phone them!
JPM...The big problem is my money.You do not know me and therefore cannot state that I am a compulsive gambler.Yes, I had a few weeks of being very compulsive with gambling,but this is not something that I have been doing in my life.Yes, I have gambled in the past,but having read GA'S list of "what makes a compulsive gambler" which consists of 20 questions or more, I only answered yes to 4 of them.I am not thinking of my next bet,or where the money will come from.I had a compulsive episode,period!
As for everyone having different clocks,if thats the case,why do the police rely on phone records? I am not trying to say that someone else was playing my account, I am just stateing that there are many things that do not add up.If everyone has their own clocks,what is the point in timing anything?The isp logs that you talk about-how would I go about obtaining those?The example I gave to CM was 4 minutes,but some of them ae much longer.The logs show the games and also the session.According to the times on the session, at times there is a half hour discrepancie.Surley the statement times,game log times and session times should add up?They don't at all.Are you trying to say that the transaction times are on one clock,the game logs are on another,and the session on yet another? I did not phone the phone company or WH CS a friend did it for me.
 
bandana,

I was one of the first posters to support you, hence I've been following this entire thread. However from where I'm standing; sorry, but this is starting to turn into straw clutching & is sounding to much like a compulsive gambling problem.

Now your stating that the phone records are out of wack & that you doubt that you spent all that money.

IMHO your just a compulsive gambler who has not yet accepted the fact.

Just becuase you don't crave gambling every day, does'nt mean you don't have a problem. You could be a binge gambler. Maybe reading over those questions again & looking at all possibilites you may find a few more YES answers.

I don't think addressing people in the way you do, when they tell you something you don't want to hear is very nice either, all of us are trying to help you. However you keep changing feet.

Anyway I'm not bothering anymore, I think your a compulsive gambler and that's that.

(Message edited by glodge on October 10, 2003)
 
Look at those 20 questions from GA (
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) just to see how many you could answer yes to.

I think just from the information you've provided in this thread, you'd have to answer an emphatic YES to #s 2,4,7,9,13 & 20 (that's 6 so far), you'd probably have to answer yes also for #'s 6 & 14 (total of at least 8). Most of these yes answers come from your very first post btw. And I'd bet there's probably 1 or 2 more in that list that could be yes as well, but only you or your partner would know that for sure. I have to agree with glodge on this one, you don't want to accept that you have a gambling problem.

Perhaps it is the first time you ever had such a compulsive episode, but that does not mean it will be the last or only one, given the right set of circumstances. That is why it is so important that you call Gamcare. And if you can't call them yourself, then have your partner call for you as she did to WH & the telephone company.
 
Spear...I have phoned Michael today and he was not there,spoke to another guy called Andrew.Explained that I had been e mailing Michael and Andrew said he would tell him that I had called and he should get back to me on Monday.
 
Hi all,
After my call to Michael at Gamcare last Friday,I e mailed him again today and this was his reply:
************************************************
Dominique



I must apologise for the delay to responding to your email. I have been away from the office last week and got your message that you rang today. I have been in touch with William Hill regarding your email and have had some initial contact with them regarding arranging a meeting to look at their current operations in terms of social responsibility although I am still waiting to hear back from them.



Without hearing back from them I am unable to give any feed back, although hopefully they will be in touch with you shortly. GamCare doesnt actually get directly involved in disputes, although we are happy to support any individual who are concerned about their gambling, through the GamCare helpline 0845 6000 133.



When I hear back from William Hill I can update you, or hopefully they will get back to you.


Sorry again for the delay, and Im sorry I currently cant be more helpful.



Regards



Michael Smeaton

I think WH probaly did the re-design after Michael first contacted them as they offer all this advice about responsible gaming.They think that's enough.There do not appear to be ANY limits anymore and they took out their code of conduct page where they stated they were commited to detecting and stoping compulsive gambling through setting limits and anylising gambling paterns.

I have been intouch with another solicitor who deals with IT and Internet in the main.They do alot of work for corporate companies but are also happy to work for individuals.They are called Manches and are based not too far away from me in Oxford.It's expensive but I am trying to find a way of borrowing the money.I outlined what had happened with me and WH and they said they would be happy to act for me, so I just have to sort the money out.If I can't borrow it then I will sell things to get the money.

(Message edited by casinomeister on October 14, 2003)
 
Can you not get the solicitor to act based on percentage of amount recovered? That way you don't have to raise any money - if you win, you get a significant amount of your finds back and the solicitor gets a cut.

This is a common practice in the US but no idea if it will work in the UK.

Meanwhile - let's see if WH ever responds to Michael Smeaton. Gamcare has enough influence to make things awkward for WH if they do not explain why the issue occurred in the first place. Too bad they can't get involved - it's not even a dispute, you might want to point out that WH should in fact be responsible for the accuracy of their posted terms and conditions EVEN IF the updated data was supposedly available in the software - that is simply no excuse and not at all what you would expect from a "respected and licensed" bookmaker.
 
Hi Spear.... I was just about to mail Michael back when you posted.I will point out what you have just said - Thanks! With regard to Manches the solicitors, it can work like that in the UK sometimes,but I don't think in this instance that it would,mainly because they are huge and are not needing the work as they have so many corporate clients.The english are very short sighted at times! I can try putting that to them though.
 
I have just replyed to Michael at Gamcare with the following:
************************************************
Hi,

Thank you for your response Michael. I doubt they will contact me, I have written to the CEO Mr. David Harding 3 times and got nothing. I hope I am wrong,but I think they will not contact you either. Although this is a dispute in some ways,which you say you can't get involved in(understandable) in another way it's not. When I played,they were advertising a spending limit of 1,000 a week,which turned out to be wrong.They also were advertising on their code of conduct page the following :

7. Controlling Compulsive Gambling
William Hill Casino is committed to detecting and reducing compulsive gambling. Our procedures include monthly deposit limits and analysis of gambling patterns.

And the following :

4. Truth In Advertising
William Hill Casino shall be truthful in all advertising and promotional efforts and shall publish only accurate information about its operations. Gaming and wagering rules and registration procedures are made available to the public online.

Neither of which were true or upheld, hence 45,000 pounds of my money going to them In 3 and a half weeks. They had no social responsibility and yet where stating they did.

They recently have totally re-designed their website. The code of conduct page has gone and there appears to be no limits at all. They also have some advice about responsible gaming and a link to your website,which was not there before.This I imagine may be as a result of your e mail to them. The fact that there seems to be no limits at all,means nothing, because once they had changed the info that I read i.e.: 1,000 per week, it went to 10,000 per day or 50,000 per week. This made a mockery of statement 7 above about setting monthly limits to help reduce or stop compulsive gambling. 200,000 pounds per month!!!

Maybe you were not aware of this information before or maybe you were, whatever, thank you for your response to me I just wonder if this is usual practise and what one should expect from a respected and licenced bookmaker?

Kind Regards

Dominique Shipstone

WH do not seem to reply to anyone do they? Why is that?
 
Dominique:
I dont know how much money Manches is asking for, however, I am always leary when people want cash upfront for helping you to recover money.
Ask them to work on a percentage of what they collect for you. I would hate it if you had to borrow money and these people did nothing to help you.

(((hugs)))) Linda
 

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