William Hill - What customer service!

[glodge]

jinnia,

Agreed.

However apart from Kniepm, I think people who have posted, are genuinely concerned & showing empathy.

Unfortunately as I'm sure you know, when it comes to illness such as this, most people haven't got a clue.

I guess if people don't speak out, then nothing changes and things like this, remain out of sight & out of mind.

No offense intended to anyone.

 

[glodge]

jpm,

The e-mail no I didn't, I have had some probs lately with OE. Most 2/3 of my e-mails got corrupted yesterday, and today it's not much better.

Think I'll have to do a fresh install; looking forward to that, not!

---------------------------------

As hard as it maybe to get your head around the high possibilty that if bandana won a jackpot, it would probably have all gone back to the casino.

I won $16,750S in around 7 hours and put the entire lot back over the following 12 hours, when on a huge manic episode.

Fortunately that was before I got treatment.

So yes it possible & IMHO a very real outcome.

Hence if bandana had won a jackpot, we may have still been presented with the same story, however it may have been dated a few weeks forward.

 

[jinnia]

(((jpm:: I know its not all about that, the friend I described was a diagnosed bi-polar and did exactly what you described above, spent money on useless stuff, gave it away, etc. But she never gambled. ))

Was she also inflicted with severe anxiety? That holds a person captive in their own home, depending on the depth of it. You get the urge to throw money away, you do it, by what ever means is available to you and not realizing you're doing so.

I have a friend who absolutely throws up and shakes as you wouldn't believe if/when being pushed to any degree to step outside. The fear on ones face, it is not funny in any manner.

((jpm::My initial point with the statement though was that Will Hill had said that they take steps to detect problem gamblers and close their accounts))

If bandana truly has this illness, then closing her account was good, for she/he is not responsibe for their action. And it was not detected by Will Hill, it was told to him.

 

[jinnia]

glodge,

Amen to that!!

Stay Well and Good Luck in life!

 

[jetset]

I guess most of us can only try to imagine what it must be like to be truly debilitated in a mental sense, or appreciate the loss of control it clearly entails.

And I think that most gamblers lend a genuinely sympathetic ear to complaints of problem gambling - that's been proved on any number of message boards where these unfortunates surface.

There are, however con artists who will try to exploit this mind disease to screw casinos, so I can understand a casino being exceptionally careful in their approach to a demand for wiping the slate clean in this far from ideal world of ours.

Having said that, and assuming that we are in possession of all the facts in this matter I can't understand why the management at William Hill did not ask for medical expert proof as this complaint dragged on and was obviously more serious than the usual hit and run conman attempt.

Surely someone there would have flagged a six week back 'n forth email complaint and said "We're listening to you - provide medical reports and be prepared to submit yourself to a neutral medical examination and we'll talk." Rather than what appears to be an outright and uncaring (almost arrogant) rejection that even dismissed the possibility of mediation?

And surely a high roller depositing GBP 1800 every day or so and gambling it away would have raised another flag, even if only a high roller? Correlate the two and it could be another indicator that the complaint was genuine.

I think the Brit gambling authorities will be all over this as it becomes more public (and the complainant has sent the story to the press who as we know love this sort of copy)

Will Hill could be in for a rough ride on both the moral and financial (share price) aspects here and may be advised to take early steps to bring things under control by doing what they should have done earlier - getting medical evaluations as a start.

 

[Casinomeister]

Hi Bandana,

Welcome to the forum, and I'm sorry about the mess.

I'm on the road until early next week. But in the meantime, could you please forward to me any names and email addresses that you've been in contact with at Wiliam Hill? Thanks!

 

[jetset]

CM, we've emailed R. Sadler with a request for media comment, which we will post here when received.

 

[glodge]

Notably there are some low lifes that would probably stoop to such depths as to use this in a con. Maybe I'm just a optimist & want to believe in the good of everyone.

IMO I think banada is telling the truth; for everyone's sake I hope I'm right.

 

[jinnia]

glodge,

I'm with you on this, I HOPE the truth is being told here, and I myself feel it is, but we really don't know.

If it is, this person should have plenty of medical documentations readily available to prove it, and if so, then it can be filed on in a court of law, then left up to the presiding judge to determine the outcome.

All My Best to you glodge
and Good Luck banada

 

[bandana]

Just wanted to thank you all for your posts,it means alot and gives me a little strength which I truly need at the moment.
Of course I have documentation of my illness,I was always ready to supply WH with that if they had asked.I can understand a casino being careful in a situation like this,but I can prove that I have been unwell for a long time.I was infact feeling alot better but I had to move home,I sold my flat and went into a rented one,hence why I had that kind of money in the bank.In selling my home I also had to re-home my dogs(who mean the world to me)as I could not find a rented place that excepted pets.The move and the dogs tipped me totally off balance.I joined the casino 3 days after I had moved to my new place.
Like I said in my letter to the newspaper,I don't want this happening to any one else, of course I want my money back, but I really do not want another human being to go through this.Their new limits of 10,000 per day and 50,000 a week are surley so iresponsible! Why did they change those limits? I have looked around other online casinos and most of them seem to have much lower limits than that.The statement on the site about being commited to detecting and stoping compulsive gambling is a joke with limits set so high.Thanks to all again.

 

[spearmaster]

Bandana -

10K and 50K are definitely off the wall, and I'm sure Gamcare would be very interested in that. If you need I can provide you the necessary contacts at Gamcare.

I would also suggest you forward copies of your doctor's documentation of your illness to WH as well.

BTW - if you intend to contact the media yourself, I would highly recommend starting with the tabloids, which are much more likely to move quickly, and which a respected operation like WH would be most likely to fear.

 

[cipher]

Spearmaster, I think Bandana should provide his or her attorney with any medical documentation and let the attorney forward those records to Will Hill when and if the need arises. Have a good one.

Cipher

 

[spearmaster]

That would probably be a good idea too... LOL... the whole point is that such documentation should be available.

In any case, Bandana has contacted me and I am providing her with contacts for Gamcare, who are much better equipped to deal with something like this than I could possibly ever be - fortunately I know people there as well

 

[sirius]

I thought I'd give everyone reading the thread a bit more information although the message below is not addressed to you, Dominique.

I have been trying for over a month to get William Hill to respond properly. I've emailed them quite a few times but their responses were terrible. One thing was that they wouldn't accept any mediation. I took Brian's advice a few weeks ago and suggested they could have their own medical assessment made of the player but they didn't even respond. They just totally stopped responding after a few emails and basically didn't accept any third party mediation even after she officially appointed me as mediator. I will probably post some of their responses later but they were embarrassing.

They even wrote in an email to the player that the problem was 'resolved' and the 'correct' decision was made but they didn't even ask for medical evidence.

I think it's rubbish what the site says about detecting problem gambling patterns. I was provided with the game logs by the player and it indicated she played between June 21st to August 6th. There was a break near the start between June 26th to July 5th but other than that she played almost every day over six weeks or so (about five weeks if you don't include the period near the beginning she didn't play).

Her deposits were all quite small (around 100) and she often played through the night. There were hundreds of these deposits and she lost on every one and never cashed anything out.

By the way, the game logs WH sent the player (the spreadsheet contains online links to the information) are starting to expire and get deleted. They no longer show any gameplay information from before July 11th.

 

[bandana]

The reason there is a week of no play Sirius,was because I was on holiday and not even in the UK.Just before I moved my stress and anxiety was so bad that it put me in hospital one night with a query heart attack.Thankfully it was not a heart attack,the doctors said it was caused through severe stress and strongly recommended that I go on holiday.I have heard nothing from William Hill since sending a fax to the CEO 2 days ago as yet.I also have not heard back from the newspaper so need to write to some more.

 

[bandana]

This is the e mail from sadler that sirius has just made reference to:
********************************

Dear Dominique,


I have been in contact with the third party you have tried to involve in this situation..

Just to clarify. I made my decision after examining all facts at my disposal and after
consulting my colleagues within William Hill. This was not a decision taken lightly
but it is the correct one.

I will not be reversing my decision.

With reference to your allegations of discrepancies I have passed these on to Ecash
who will report back to me in the next day or so. If there is a discrepancy this will be
returned to you.

I would like you to confirm who I need to contact in future. In all correspondence to
William Hill this has been from 'L Bayliss' who claims to be your partner. In
correspondence to the third party and on the thread held at "Winneronline" it seems
to be yourself. Could you please clarify.

Thank you.

With regards,

Robert Sadler
Internet Customer Services Manager
William Hill E-Commerce
rsadler@williamhill.co.uk

*****************************
I then wrote to him asking him what facts he had at his disposal, who took the desision and why it was the "correct desision". To that he replied 4 days later with this:

*********************************

Thank you for your e-mail.

As the Internet Customer Services Manager for William Hill I am empowered
to make decisions on behalf of the Company I represent.

The decision I made in this instance was made after extensive discussions
with my colleagues within the Company. The content of those discussions
is entirely confidential.

The decison not to return your stakes has now been made and there is no
reason for further discussion. I will not be negotiating with Mr Manso on a matter
which has already been resolved.

I am still awaiting the outcome of investigations by Ecash into your allegations of
an account discrepancy, I will be in touch in due course.

With regards,

Robert Sadler
Internet Customer Services Manager
William Hill E-Commerce
rsadler@williamhill.co.uk

 

[bandana]

Sorry it's me again! One thing that I would really like to know is who and where is the casino manager in all this. What happens normaly if there is a problem, do casino managers not manage the situation? Do WH even have a casino manager? If you try and use the e mail address on the site casinomanager@williamhill.co.uk it just bounces back saying that the DNS is not configured.

 

[jpm]

((jinnia:Was she also inflicted with severe anxiety? That holds a person captive in their own home, depending on the depth of it. You get the
urge to throw money away, you do it, by what ever means is available to you and not realizing you're doing so.))

No, actually she was quite gregarious, downright obnoxious at times! Didn't seem to be afflicted with any anxiety, just animosity towards her ex-hubby. But she still threw the money around like crazy.

((jinnia:If bandana truly has this illness, then closing her account was good, for she/he is not responsibe for their action. And it was not detected by Will Hill, it was told to him.))

I agree, it was good that they closed the account and the right thing to do.

I know it wasn't detected, that was my point. They SAY they take steps to detect compulsive behaviors, but they obviously didn't do that in this case. This is even more obvious after reading what sirius saw in the ecash logs. I was saying that since they didn't detect it and had to be told about it, they were somewhat negligent at that point. This is probably the best evidence they could use to try to recover some of bandana's funds. Any other angles would probably not be successful, since they don't show any negligence by the casino.

((glodge::I won $16,750S in around 7 hours and put the entire lot back over the following 12 hours, when on a huge manic episode.)

Wow, that too is just astounding to me Joel. Glad you got treatment though and haven't repeated that episode! Hopefully the same will happen for bandana as well. I'll resend the email, hopefully it'll make it thru this time.

 

[rainman]

well now I take it was not bj for it is rigged at will hill unlesw u playl with other players by yourself u cant win I recievec email jsut fine from casionmanager problaby how your email is set up is the problem my period button not working so bear with me

 

[bandana]

This morning I have e mailed my MP about this situation.I have still not heard from the CEO at William Hill Head Office, dispite sending two fax's to him.The first fax detailed what had happened and how it had been dealt with and the second I have cut and pasted below.Jetset emailed Robert Sadler a few days ago and asked for media comment and so far has had no response and in my opinion is not likely to.Jetset informed me that there will be a infopower story on Casinomeisters news and that it will be published sometime today for any of you that are interested.I think my MP will be very interested in this story due to the fact the the government are not happy about the fact that William Hill have Video Roulette machines in there land based betting shops, with huge payouts offered and are trying to stop it and also the fact that they are trying to legislate online casinos.William Hill by not responding to any of this are making themselves look ridiculous or like they have something to hide.Here is the second fax sent yesterday:
********************************************
Dear Mr. Harding,

It is now 3 days since I sent a fax to you, I was hoping that you would at least of had the courtesy
to acknowledge that.
Are you aware that you have a Code of Conduct page on your web site and that it states the
following :

4. Truth In Advertising
William Hill Casino shall be truthful in all advertising and promotional efforts and shall publish
only accurate information about its operations. Gaming and wagering rules and registration
procedures are made available to the public online.

When I joined the casino and all through my game play you were advertising the following :

How Much ECash Direct Can I Deposit To My William Hill Casino Account
Each Week By Credit Card?
New players can make initial deposits of up to:
1,000 without a PIN
1,500 with their temporary (e-mail delivered) PIN
For first 90 days established players may deposit up to 2,500 per week on receipt of their
permanent 6-digit PIN
After first 90 days established players may deposit up to 3,000 per week on receipt of
their permanent 6-digit PIN
After 1 year established players may deposit up to 3,500 per week on receipt of their
permanent 6-digit PIN
Weekly deposit limits are reset each Friday at 12:00am EST.
I was told afterwards that this was incorrect, making a mockery of your above statement.

If that was not bad enough, on the same page you have this displayed:

7. Controlling Compulsive Gambling
William Hill Casino is committed to detecting and reducing compulsive gambling. Our procedures
include monthly deposit limits and analysis of gambling patterns.
This is clearly an out and out lie, your procedures do not work! If you analyzed gambling patterns
then my account would of been closed after a week or two, or you would of at least contacted me
to make sure that there was not a problem. Your now revised monthly deposit limits would allow
someone to stake 200,000 pounds. There are very few people who would be making deposits of
10,000 a day or 50,000 per week rendering the limits as no limits in most cases.
Your organization is pretending to be concerned about Compulsive Gambling with that kind of
irresponsible limit.
You also have printed on your web site an e mail address for:
casinomanager@williamhillcasino.co.uk
This infact will not work as the DNS is not configured correctly, so any e mail sent bounces back.
Are you happy as the CEO of William Hill with the inaccurate information as detailed above,that
is being displayed? Are you not at least embarrassed?
And what about this quote on your site :
We pride ourselves on providing a guaranteed
response to any of your problems 24 hours a day,
7 days a week.
So why did it take Mr. Sadler 10 days to even acknowledge the initial e mail sent to him?
Lastly, how you can have the nerve to state the following, is unbelievable:

The William Hill Organization is one of the world's
largest and most respected gaming companies.

We have over 1,600 offices and more than 10,000
employees with a reputation for integrity and
professionalism that stretches back over 65 years.
As I said in my last fax to you, I am writing to the papers, Gamcare, posting to online forums to
warn potential players and if necessary to my MP. I have only written to one paper so far, as I
was hoping that you would have the decency to contact me.

Sincerely

 

[sirius]

The mistake on the site for the manager's email address is that it should probably be casinomanager@williamhill.co.uk but it is given as casinomanager@williamhillcasino.co.uk. I explained this to them weeks ago and it's still not corrected. I've emailed the 'guessed' address before too and not had a response.

In one email I was forwarded by the player, Sadler said that part of the web page wasn't updated with the new limits but the cashier in the software contained the current limits. The problem is that this is in small writing to the right side of the screen and it's not obvious that a player would read it.

 

[bandana]

Just got this today are they taking the pi**!

<table border=1><tr><td>
Free Casino Cash is waiting for you!.eml (9.2 k)</td></tr></table>​

 

[jpm]

Bandana, you should edit that attachment to take out your email address!!! Bryan, maybe you can before it gets to far.

Rainman, give it a rest already, you're b.s. about cheating bj doesn't belong in this forum. It has nothing to do with it and I already explained that its playing by the rules that are clearly posted on the Intercasino website. Play a different game already, since this one doesn't have the rules you want.

 

[bandana]

Check out the WH site, it has been totally re-designed, VERY INTERSTING! They suddenley have a whole load of stuff and advice about compulsive gambling,with links to gamcare and GA. Cannot find anything about limits anymore,e cash do not seem to be mentioned anymore,but they have yet AGAIN screwed up with the casino manager e mail.The DNS is still not configured correctly.I am starting to find it all quite laughable in a perverse kind of way. Still no contact from the CEO which is just rude,but maybe he did realise the site was an embarrasment with all it's inaccurate information and lies!

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Go take a look!

 

[bandana]

They closed my account,because I was a problem or had a problem and this was verified in an e mail from Mr Manager Sadler! I have just downloaded the casino software again,deposited 10 pounds and played BJ.Amazing!!!! Of course I lost it, but that is not the point,my account is open for business as usual and with my old username and password!