William Hill Casino RTP

[Greigssy]

I thought I would share this chat I had,

I had a horrible 3 day run at William Hill Casino and asked for my Rtp for the past 3 days. Obviously the chat rep did not have a clue what I was asking.

I will add this is not "William Hill Casino Club" apparently they are two separate casinos but the same family.

 

[bpb]

Why are you wasting the time of their customer support by asking such a meaningless question? If you want to know your last 3 days loss to play ratio, then track your own wagering.

 

[bigjohn]

Why are you wasting the time of their customer support by asking such a meaningless question? If you want to know your last 3 days loss to play ratio, then track your own wagering.

Does somebody pee in your cheerios every single morning?

 

[bigjohn]

I thought I would share this chat I had,

I had a horrible 3 day run at William Hill Casino and asked for my Rtp for the past 3 days. Obviously the chat rep did not have a clue what I was asking.

I will add this is not "William Hill Casino Club" apparently they are two separate casinos but the same family.

The forum seems to be getting a lot more comments like this. The first line support staff appear to have no or little training in anything but the most basic queries. I often picture they have a selection of pre-written replies that they must mold to individual circumstances. I must admit the idea of imposing a fee for account info is new to me.

 

[maxd]

Why are you wasting the time of their customer support by asking such a meaningless question?

Is it your intention to harrass and bully people? If so, please don't. If not, please consider how things like this sound to other forum readers. You're creating a seriously negative vibe here and there's no call for it. As I've said, please don't.

 

[Balthazar]

Charging you £10 to tell your RTP isn't good. I'd not pay either.

 

[mimi26]

I played at WH for a number of years best decision I ever made was to leave and never look back

 

[Greigssy]

Why are you wasting the time of their customer support by asking such a meaningless question? If you want to know your last 3 days loss to play ratio, then track your own wagering.

I'm not the first one on this forum to ask from RTP after a bad run, its probably quite common. Most Microgaming Casino live chat can give the RTP instantly.

I find it useful to know my rtp especially over extended periods and if its very low then I can change up the software or the casino. Nobody wants to continue playing at a casino/software where they have a constant run of bad luck.

I would find it very difficult to track my rtp of the casino software(Playtech) when i have been switching between different software over tens of thousands of spins on the same website. Who actually could be arsed doing that anyway?

 

[GrandMaster]

Charging you £10 to tell your RTP isn't good. I'd not pay either.

£10 is the maximum that can be charged for a subject access request under the Data Protection Act. For this you get all the personal data held about you.

 

[hunnyliz]

delete

delete

 

[dunover]

Why are you wasting the time of their customer support by asking such a meaningless question? If you want to know your last 3 days loss to play ratio, then track your own wagering.

Well it isn't meaningless to the OP is it?

Firstly it helps set your mind straight about how bad your run/luck has been.
Secondly, it's easier to assume the casino can pull this data out of the hat rather than you work it out - and many do in an instant.
Lastly it can help explain how quick you lost the money.

If you had an RTP of 99.6% say on a 100 pounds deposit, it would last hours at small stakes. If you played small stakes and lost it in 20 minutes, you can confirm your RTP was unusually bad for the session.

Many of the established members here have been quoted as asking this question themselves, so don't belittle it.

You can also work out winning RTP's easily - you deposit 100 and cash out 150, you've had a 150% RTP for the session - that's simple.

When you LOSE it's no so straightforward to get without trawling through play logs on most casinos. So it's easier to ask their CS to provide it. Come on, give the guy a break!

 

[lotusch]

I played at WH for a number of years best decision I ever made was to leave and never look back

I quit their casino as well...
Last months they sucked my bankroll dry...Not a single decent win on any slot...
And I know as a seasoned player you lose more times then you win but at WH you can play any slot for hundreds of spins and just not get a bonusgame,it feels wrong that's all it is.
Got a whopping 4500 grand on signup but after that a few small wins aside I was just depositing depositing depositing and that's that.
Again,they are an accredited casino but not my cup of tea anymore,used to love playing there.


Ontopic,I had similar discussion on chat when asking for my RTP a few weeks ago and they asked the manager and I was told they do not provide this RTP figure on a personal basis,and that's that.
When I asked if I could speak to a manager that wasn't possible either.
I am 100% sure my RTP overall on this casino must be staggering low.

So that was for me the last drop and decided to put this casino on my personal "ignore" list.

 

[zebedy]

Are casino's obligated to supply you with you RTP statistics if you request them or can they refuse

 

[Nifty29]

Are casino's obligated to supply you with you RTP statistics if you request them or can they refuse

I don't think there are any enforceable global laws that will assist you obtaining such information should the casino not be willing to provide it.

As Grandmaster alluded to, you may be able to obtain all personal information they hold about you via the DPA in the UK. However, it may not extend to personal RTP if that is not a live calculated figure that is actually stored somewhere i.e. they may have to send you a gazillion pages of game logs but you might have to work it all out yourself.

IMO, any casino that will not provide at least your lifetime RTP isn't worth playing at....there are far better places that will provide all of this plus more...see the Accredited List.

Mind you, historical data like RTP doesn't change anything. It is only a measure of how you have done so far, and is not and accurate indication of how you will go in the future, particularly in the short term.

 

[zebedy]

I don't think there are any enforceable global laws that will assist you obtaining such information should the casino not be willing to provide it.

As Grandmaster alluded to, you may be able to obtain all personal information they hold about you via the DPA in the UK. However, it may not extend to personal RTP if that is not a live calculated figure that is actually stored somewhere i.e. they may have to send you a gazillion pages of game logs but you might have to work it all out yourself.

IMO, any casino that will not provide at least your lifetime RTP isn't worth playing at....there are far better places that will provide all of this plus more...see the Accredited List.

Mind you, historical data like RTP doesn't change anything. It is only a measure of how you have done so far, and is not and accurate indication of how you will go in the future, particularly in the short term.

Thanks Nifty

I only asked because i was trying to get my RTP figures for my last deposit at a casino when i received this as a reply.
Actually this was the second reply as in the first one they had no idea what RTP was

I regret to advise you that we will not be able to issue the requested information. It would not reflect actual RTP due to the low volume of data available. What we mean by that, is that the RTP of any given game is calculated on millions and millions of bets, and in comparison, the RTP of one deposit and its subsequent game play, would not give an accurate overview.

I tried to explain that i didnt want the actual RTP as they meant, but the RTP on my gaming session but they didnt seem to understand this.

Am i being unreasonable to request this on a $100 deposit playing on average 0.50-0.75 per spin that lasted about 420 spins

Just checked my gameplay and it was 306 spins

113 spins at 0.40
105 spins at 0.75
35 spins at 0.60
53 spins at 0.50
busted out

 

[bigjohn]

Judging by the second reply you got from them they still don't get what you are asking for. Either that or they just don't want to tell you.

By the figures you gave your RTP for that session was, I believe, 71.45%.

 

[Igor82]

Hey zebedy,

It's 41.67%.

Your total bet was 171.45, while you lost a 100, making your total win 71.45 (you get the total win by deducting your losses from your total bet).

RTP=win/bet so 71.45/171.45 = 0.41674 = 41.67%

pretty dire

 

[zebedy]

Hey zebedy,

It's 41.67%.

Your total bet was 171.45, while you lost a 100, making your total win 71.45 (you get the total win by deducting your losses from your total bet).

RTP=win/bet so 71.45/171.45 = 0.41674 = 41.67%

pretty dire

I thought it was bad. No wonder they didn't want to tell me, they were probably to embarrassed to say

 

[Redbet-Andy]

I thought it was bad. No wonder they didn't want to tell me, they were probably to embarrassed to say

I've seen worse, depends on the game.
In fact I just calculated one for someone which was a shade under 25%.
it was for a play session of Dead or Alive on a 25 euro deposit mind you.

I always mention session RTP to games providers as something they should provide in their admin systems (that way CSRs won't need to use a spreadsheet and the info would be much more readily available), until then a lot of casinos simply aren't going to take the time to calculate it unfortunately.

 

[zebedy]

I've seen worse, depends on the game.
In fact I just calculated one for someone which was a shade under 25%.
it was for a play session of Dead or Alive on a 25 euro deposit mind you.

I always mention session RTP to games providers as something they should provide in their admin systems (that way CSRs won't need to use a spreadsheet and the info would be much more readily available), until then a lot of casinos simply aren't going to take the time to calculate it unfortunately.

Ive probably had worse Gambling...... Why do we do it

Or take a leaf out of BET-AT.EU book and publish these in the account section No annoying support. no having to check the play-logs which could be 100s of pages,

A great idea whomever came up with it, anything that makes the casino's and players life easier is always a good thing

 

[Igor82]

I've seen worse, depends on the game.
In fact I just calculated one for someone which was a shade under 25%.
it was for a play session of Dead or Alive on a 25 euro deposit mind you.

I always mention session RTP to games providers as something they should provide in their admin systems (that way CSRs won't need to use a spreadsheet and the info would be much more readily available), until then a lot of casinos simply aren't going to take the time to calculate it unfortunately.

Why wait for game providers? I dont think they even need to expose this... The formula is so simple that operators really shouldn't be so apprehensive about it: Each operator has the transactions and the time-scale requested is almost always the same: last sessions (log-in to log-out across all games), last game session or lifetime... IMO this 5 sec job can be done for everyone, especially by someone as huge as will hill.

What I'm baffled about is why hide it???

It's not like not telling the player will make them feel any better about the game-play they've been experiencing "Ah you cant tell me the RTP? Oh well, I must have imagined the utterly rape-like session I've just undergone..."

Like that's ever going to happen... ehhh

 

[zebedy]

I should just add my game-play wasn't at Will Hill but another accredited casino. I just posted here as the thread was also about RTP

 

[Redbet-Andy]

Why wait for game providers? IMO this 5 sec job can be done for everyone, especially by someone as huge as will hill.

What I'm baffled about is why hide it???
:

I see what you're saying but it can be difficult, especially for the bigger players with hundreds of thousands of customers.

In a past life I launched this.
We then had to take it down because it led to so much confusion among players.

"How can I have got 97% return when I didn't win any money?"
"You liar you are saying I won money and I have never withdrawn anything!"
"What the hell is this?"
"I want a refund, you said I'd get 97.5% back and I only got 80%" etc


Fair play to you for having it though.

 

[Igor82]

In a past life I launched this.
We then had to take it down because it led to so much confusion among players.


Fair play to you for having it though.

I don't completely agree personally. These days, information is so readily available that while it works well for players in deciding which business to give their money too, it also works in their favour in educating themselves.

It's not rocket science to explain that RTP% on a losing player is simply an indication of their game play duration - how much fun was awarded for their investment while having a possibility to come out on top.

Transparency and reason do work in every industry in overwhelming quality (you do get the odd customer here and there that's just a plank but that is true for every business).

Even in my previous job working for the top 5 operator - we always gave out RTP% details and a fair explanation. I'm yet to remember if it ever worked against us.

I know it doesn't take much, i know it's readily available and it comes down to policy. I just simply disagree with the one outlined at the beginning of this thread.

Just my 2 pence really

 

[chris87]

As a new member of Casinomeister I thought I'd add my experience of being a William Hill customer games slots player and the issue of RTP.

I joined WH 2 months ago, deposited £100 and took the £20 welcome bonus. This soon disappeared, ok it happens, so I thought I'd try another £100 and if I lost that I'd call it a day. Well, my luck was good and I won £600, so I cashed out. To be fair it only took a couple of days for the money to be in my bank account.

But since then the story has been different. I do understand that gambling is a risk and you should expect to lose if you take the risk. I've been gambling long enough to know that. The bottom line is that since my £600 withdrawal 2 months ago, I've deposited just short of £2000 and lost it all. More fool me, yes I accept that, but the RTP (if I could find it out!) must be shockingly low. I'm a regular player at 3 other on line casinos and over the past 5 years probably played at 10 others and can honestly say I've not experienced anything like it.

My deposits have not being in big chunks, usually £50, but sometime £100 and my stakes never exceeded £1.50 per spin. Typical results have been two £0.75 wins for £50 of play and I had one run of two £1.25 wins and three £3.00 wins from £100 of spins. Bonuses are rare, when they have come up the maximum total win from 10 spins has been less than £15.00.

So, I thought I'd check my RTP and so contacted the WH on line help. It was obvious the gentleman did not understand what RTP was and after nearly 30 minutes of going back and forth could not, or would not tell me. All he kept saying was that my average return should be 98% and the slots are regulated and calibrated. I therefore called WH customer service to be told that the gentleman on line would not have been able to help as English was not his first language, but then was curtly told that she could not help either as they were having "technical difficulties", so I am none the wiser.

I do realise that the claim is that casinos cannot influence pay outs, but it seems significant that many have had a similar experience with William Hill. I would certainly not recommend them given my experience. I get the feel that as a big player in the UK high street that customer service is not a priority. Maybe they're having to recoup some funds to pay their fine to 32Red!

CM is a great website btw

 

[wobble33]

As a new member of Casinomeister I thought I'd add my experience of being a William Hill customer games slots player and the issue of RTP.

I joined WH 2 months ago, deposited £100 and took the £20 welcome bonus. This soon disappeared, ok it happens, so I thought I'd try another £100 and if I lost that I'd call it a day. Well, my luck was good and I won £600, so I cashed out. To be fair it only took a couple of days for the money to be in my bank account.

But since then the story has been different. I do understand that gambling is a risk and you should expect to lose if you take the risk. I've been gambling long enough to know that. The bottom line is that since my £600 withdrawal 2 months ago, I've deposited just short of £2000 and lost it all. More fool me, yes I accept that, but the RTP (if I could find it out!) must be shockingly low. I'm a regular player at 3 other on line casinos and over the past 5 years probably played at 10 others and can honestly say I've not experienced anything like it.

My deposits have not being in big chunks, usually £50, but sometime £100 and my stakes never exceeded £1.50 per spin. Typical results have been two £0.75 wins for £50 of play and I had one run of two £1.25 wins and three £3.00 wins from £100 of spins. Bonuses are rare, when they have come up the maximum total win from 10 spins has been less than £15.00.

So, I thought I'd check my RTP and so contacted the WH on line help. It was obvious the gentleman did not understand what RTP was and after nearly 30 minutes of going back and forth could not, or would not tell me. All he kept saying was that my average return should be 98% and the slots are regulated and calibrated. I therefore called WH customer service to be told that the gentleman on line would not have been able to help as English was not his first language, but then was curtly told that she could not help either as they were having "technical difficulties", so I am none the wiser.

I do realise that the claim is that casinos cannot influence pay outs, but it seems significant that many have had a similar experience with William Hill. I would certainly not recommend them given my experience. I get the feel that as a big player in the UK high street that customer service is not a priority. Maybe they're having to recoup some funds to pay their fine to 32Red!

CM is a great website btw

I know what you mean here chris but my experience has been with coral casino a playtech too. I play nothing but aces or faces. I know the stratergy on the back of my hand. I have accumulated over 190k comp points. gambling counts for comp points so lets take away 25%.
you post to get a royal flush every 47k hands? I have played treble this and still no royal flush! I have had 4 to a pat royal 16 times and not once have I made the royal! I am thinking about taking this up with corals because there is definitely something wrong here.

 

[Janek12]

I have had 4 to a pat royal 16 times and not once have I made the royal! I am thinking about taking this up with corals because there is definitely something wrong here.

Each time when you had a pat royal, you had a 1/48 chance you would get the royal flush. If you had 16 attempts, then the odds become 1/3 (48 divided by the 16 attempts). And now, for the sake of illustration, if you are familiar with roulette, try to recall for how many spins you have seen a dozen (the odds of which are 1/3) not showing up. Over my years of playing I personally encountered something around 30 spins without a certain dozen showing; and I experienced more than one series of this kind.
In other words, you could go without a royal flush in another 16 attempts x 30 = 480 attempts and, from the statistical point of view, it would still not be a reason for questioning the fairness of the game.

I make these calculations, without any proper background, out of necessity because I like to know my odds when I gamble, so please, anyone feel free to correct me, if my calculations are inaccurate in some way.

 

[wobble33]

Each time when you had a pat royal, you had a 1/48 chance you would get the royal flush. If you had 16 attempts, then the odds become 1/3 (48 divided by the 16 attempts). And now, for the sake of illustration, if you are familiar roulette, try to recall for how many spins you have seen a dozen (the odds of which are 1/3) not showing up. Over my years of playing I personally encountered something around 30 spins without a certain dozen showing; and I experienced more than one series of this kind.
In other words, you could go without a royal flush in another 16 attempts x 30 = 480 attempts and, from the statistical point of view, it would still not be a reason for questioning the fairness of the game.

I make these calculations, without any proper background, out of necessity because I like to know my odds when I gamble, so please, anyone feel free to correct me, if my calculations are inaccurate in some way.

hi janek

thank you for clearing my mind a lot here. not sure if I want to keep on trying for it though, or call it a day

 

[Janek12]

I know where you are coming from... I have not had a royal for months; by a rough estimate I must have played around one hundred thousand hands since the last one... The odds of the royal are simply "not good", as Nifty put it recently .
But still, IMO videopoker is one of the better options to play; IIRC, without a royal and straight flush, 9/6 JoB videopoker has around 97.5 % RTP, which is significantly better than the RTP of a standard online slot; and there is also the added bonus of the chance of hitting a royal or a straight flush and scoring a big win. That's how I view 9/6 JoB, I try to forget about a royal flush and try not to be teased by it and I play it simply as a 97.5 % RTP game .

 

[chris87]

They say you shouldn't chase your losses, but based on my experience at other casinos, usually things turn round, eventually.

Unfortunately that's not the case at William Hill. In 5 years playing at on line casinos, I've had the worst run of luck ever, with this casino. What is more concerning is that they still won't tell me my RTP either on individual games or in totality. They just say it's "not available." In all cases I've been polite and respectful with the 3 people I've spoken to.

I think this state of affairs is shocking and there seems to be a level of arrogance with this casino. Time to cut my losses and call it a day............

In my opinion....not recommended

 

[lotusch]

Unfortunately that's not the case at William Hill. In 5 years playing at on line casinos, I've had the worst run of luck ever, with this casino. What is more concerning is that they still won't tell me my RTP either on individual games or in totality.

100% agree with you on that!
That casino is on my personal blacklist,they sucked me dry over several months of no pays at all on any slots,no matter which ones I was playing.
Also very questionable is the amount of players there that won huge jackpots multiple times,same names appear in the winners list quite often.
One guy won the JP on Leprechauns Luck twice in the space of 3 days,eeeeeeeeeh yeah right!
Winning a jackpot once is a very slim chance for everyone hence players who won 3 or 4 jackpots in a space of a few weeks on that casino.
What are the odds of that occuring?

No they got a good chunck of money from me and I hope they are happy with it.

Also in my case they would not provide me with my overall RTP on their slots which was for me the final straw.

 

[chris87]

100% agree with you on that!
That casino is on my personal blacklist,they sucked me dry over several months of no pays at all on any slots,no matter which ones I was playing.
Also very questionable is the amount of players there that won huge jackpots multiple times,same names appear in the winners list quite often.
One guy won the JP on Leprechauns Luck twice in the space of 3 days,eeeeeeeeeh yeah right!
Winning a jackpot once is a very slim chance for everyone hence players who won 3 or 4 jackpots in a space of a few weeks on that casino.
What are the odds of that occuring?

No they got a good chunck of money from me and I hope they are happy with it.

Also in my case they would not provide me with my overall RTP on their slots which was for me the final straw.

Interesting that you (and others) found the same with WH.

I just don't believe that this kind of luck can be produced via a random number generator. Also I think the refusal to provide RTP speaks volumes.

It was an expensive lesson, one I won't repeat in a hurry!

 

[lotusch]

Interesting that you (and others) found the same with WH.

I just don't believe that this kind of luck can be produced via a random number generator. Also I think the refusal to provide RTP speaks volumes.

It was an expensive lesson, one I won't repeat in a hurry!

Aye,

I find their slots at least questionable but that's maybe because I am blinded by the fact that I lost thousands without a decent win on their slots.
Biggest ever win was 5000 Euro on my FIRST deposit of 50 Euro's.
After that,wins were non existant.
Bad luck?Maybe.
I think there is more to it as I found a few times when they credited me with 10% of my losses for a certain amount of time bonusses on any slot were triggered very often,would give me a few pound winnings and at a certain point the bonus fiesta was over and non to be triggered anymore.

Hmmmmmm?????

But I never questioned them,I just cut my losses and cancelled my account.
Never look back to that place anymore.

 

[chris87]

Aye,

I find their slots at least questionable but that's maybe because I am blinded by the fact that I lost thousands without a decent win on their slots.
Biggest ever win was 5000 Euro on my FIRST deposit of 50 Euro's.
After that,wins were non existant.
Bad luck?Maybe.
I think there is more to it as I found a few times when they credited me with 10% of my losses for a certain amount of time bonusses on any slot were triggered very often,would give me a few pound winnings and at a certain point the bonus fiesta was over and non to be triggered anymore.

Hmmmmmm?????

But I never questioned them,I just cut my losses and cancelled my account.
Never look back to that place anymore.

It seems that the pattern of a large win with the first deposit and then substantial losses is a common theme with WH. Unfortunately my good luck from my first deposit was no where near yours, being £600+ only.

Since then, nothing. I'd been afraid to look, but following your post I checked and found that I'd lost £2500 since my first deposit 3 weeks ago. In your case I guess you could argue that it's an "evening out" process to get to the average RTP, but either way there's something not right here and it's certainly not a random number generation pattern as you could argue that every spin has the opportunity to win or lose!

And their refusal to give you your RTP figure just stinks. I'll never touch them again.

Thanks