William Hill Casino RTP

Greigssy

Meister Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Location
Scotland
I thought I would share this chat I had,

I had a horrible 3 day run at William Hill Casino and asked for my Rtp for the past 3 days. Obviously the chat rep did not have a clue what I was asking.

I will add this is not "William Hill Casino Club" apparently they are two separate casinos but the same family.:confused:
 

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bpb

Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr
PABnonaccred
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Haverhill
Why are you wasting the time of their customer support by asking such a meaningless question? If you want to know your last 3 days loss to play ratio, then track your own wagering.
 

bigjohn

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Northeast Coastal USA
I thought I would share this chat I had,

I had a horrible 3 day run at William Hill Casino and asked for my Rtp for the past 3 days. Obviously the chat rep did not have a clue what I was asking.

I will add this is not "William Hill Casino Club" apparently they are two separate casinos but the same family.:confused:

The forum seems to be getting a lot more comments like this. The first line support staff appear to have no or little training in anything but the most basic queries. I often picture they have a selection of pre-written replies that they must mold to individual circumstances. I must admit the idea of imposing a fee for account info is new to me.
 

maxd

PAB (Complaints) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
Why are you wasting the time of their customer support by asking such a meaningless question?

Is it your intention to harrass and bully people? If so, please don't. If not, please consider how things like this sound to other forum readers. You're creating a seriously negative vibe here and there's no call for it. As I've said, please don't.
 

mimi26

Meister Member
Joined
May 17, 2012
Location
uk
I played at WH for a number of years best decision I ever made was to leave and never look back
 

Greigssy

Meister Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Location
Scotland
Why are you wasting the time of their customer support by asking such a meaningless question? If you want to know your last 3 days loss to play ratio, then track your own wagering.

I'm not the first one on this forum to ask from RTP after a bad run, its probably quite common. Most Microgaming Casino live chat can give the RTP instantly.

I find it useful to know my rtp especially over extended periods and if its very low then I can change up the software or the casino. Nobody wants to continue playing at a casino/software where they have a constant run of bad luck.

I would find it very difficult to track my rtp of the casino software(Playtech) when i have been switching between different software over tens of thousands of spins on the same website. Who actually could be arsed doing that anyway?
 

dunover

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Why are you wasting the time of their customer support by asking such a meaningless question? If you want to know your last 3 days loss to play ratio, then track your own wagering.

Well it isn't meaningless to the OP is it?

Firstly it helps set your mind straight about how bad your run/luck has been.
Secondly, it's easier to assume the casino can pull this data out of the hat rather than you work it out - and many do in an instant.
Lastly it can help explain how quick you lost the money.

If you had an RTP of 99.6% say on a 100 pounds deposit, it would last hours at small stakes. If you played small stakes and lost it in 20 minutes, you can confirm your RTP was unusually bad for the session.

Many of the established members here have been quoted as asking this question themselves, so don't belittle it.

You can also work out winning RTP's easily - you deposit 100 and cash out 150, you've had a 150% RTP for the session - that's simple.

When you LOSE it's no so straightforward to get without trawling through play logs on most casinos. So it's easier to ask their CS to provide it. Come on, give the guy a break!:)
 

lotusch

A little mix of Dutch and Irish
Joined
Jun 3, 2013
Location
Dún Dealgan
I played at WH for a number of years best decision I ever made was to leave and never look back

I quit their casino as well...
Last months they sucked my bankroll dry...Not a single decent win on any slot...
And I know as a seasoned player you lose more times then you win but at WH you can play any slot for hundreds of spins and just not get a bonusgame,it feels wrong that's all it is.
Got a whopping 4500 grand on signup but after that a few small wins aside I was just depositing depositing depositing and that's that.
Again,they are an accredited casino but not my cup of tea anymore,used to love playing there.


Ontopic,I had similar discussion on chat when asking for my RTP a few weeks ago and they asked the manager and I was told they do not provide this RTP figure on a personal basis,and that's that.
When I asked if I could speak to a manager that wasn't possible either.
I am 100% sure my RTP overall on this casino must be staggering low.

So that was for me the last drop and decided to put this casino on my personal "ignore" list.
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
Are casino's obligated to supply you with you RTP statistics if you request them or can they refuse

I don't think there are any enforceable global laws that will assist you obtaining such information should the casino not be willing to provide it.

As Grandmaster alluded to, you may be able to obtain all personal information they hold about you via the DPA in the UK. However, it may not extend to personal RTP if that is not a live calculated figure that is actually stored somewhere i.e. they may have to send you a gazillion pages of game logs but you might have to work it all out yourself.

IMO, any casino that will not provide at least your lifetime RTP isn't worth playing at....there are far better places that will provide all of this plus more...see the Accredited List.

Mind you, historical data like RTP doesn't change anything. It is only a measure of how you have done so far, and is not and accurate indication of how you will go in the future, particularly in the short term.
 

zebedy

No!!!! Im Spartacus
Joined
Jun 1, 2007
Location
Up a Tree
I don't think there are any enforceable global laws that will assist you obtaining such information should the casino not be willing to provide it.

As Grandmaster alluded to, you may be able to obtain all personal information they hold about you via the DPA in the UK. However, it may not extend to personal RTP if that is not a live calculated figure that is actually stored somewhere i.e. they may have to send you a gazillion pages of game logs but you might have to work it all out yourself.

IMO, any casino that will not provide at least your lifetime RTP isn't worth playing at....there are far better places that will provide all of this plus more...see the Accredited List.

Mind you, historical data like RTP doesn't change anything. It is only a measure of how you have done so far, and is not and accurate indication of how you will go in the future, particularly in the short term.


Thanks Nifty

I only asked because i was trying to get my RTP figures for my last deposit at a casino when i received this as a reply.
Actually this was the second reply as in the first one they had no idea what RTP was :rolleyes:

I regret to advise you that we will not be able to issue the requested information. It would not reflect actual RTP due to the low volume of data available. What we mean by that, is that the RTP of any given game is calculated on millions and millions of bets, and in comparison, the RTP of one deposit and its subsequent game play, would not give an accurate overview.

I tried to explain that i didnt want the actual RTP as they meant, but the RTP on my gaming session but they didnt seem to understand this.

Am i being unreasonable to request this on a $100 deposit playing on average 0.50-0.75 per spin that lasted about 420 spins

Just checked my gameplay and it was 306 spins

113 spins at 0.40
105 spins at 0.75
35 spins at 0.60
53 spins at 0.50
busted out
 
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bigjohn

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Northeast Coastal USA
Judging by the second reply you got from them they still don't get what you are asking for. Either that or they just don't want to tell you.

By the figures you gave your RTP for that session was, I believe, 71.45%.
 

Igor82

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Location
Malta
Hey zebedy,

It's 41.67%.

Your total bet was 171.45, while you lost a 100, making your total win 71.45 (you get the total win by deducting your losses from your total bet).

RTP=win/bet so 71.45/171.45 = 0.41674 = 41.67%

pretty dire :eek2:
 

zebedy

No!!!! Im Spartacus
Joined
Jun 1, 2007
Location
Up a Tree
Hey zebedy,

It's 41.67%.

Your total bet was 171.45, while you lost a 100, making your total win 71.45 (you get the total win by deducting your losses from your total bet).

RTP=win/bet so 71.45/171.45 = 0.41674 = 41.67%

pretty dire :eek2:

:thumbsup:

I thought it was bad. No wonder they didn't want to tell me, they were probably to embarrassed to say :oops:
 

Redbet-Andy

Dormant account - New account: AndyB-MrGreen
Joined
Jun 22, 2010
Location
Malta
:thumbsup:

I thought it was bad. No wonder they didn't want to tell me, they were probably to embarrassed to say :oops:

I've seen worse, depends on the game.
In fact I just calculated one for someone which was a shade under 25%.
it was for a play session of Dead or Alive on a 25 euro deposit mind you.

I always mention session RTP to games providers as something they should provide in their admin systems (that way CSRs won't need to use a spreadsheet and the info would be much more readily available), until then a lot of casinos simply aren't going to take the time to calculate it unfortunately.
 

zebedy

No!!!! Im Spartacus
Joined
Jun 1, 2007
Location
Up a Tree
I've seen worse, depends on the game.
In fact I just calculated one for someone which was a shade under 25%.
it was for a play session of Dead or Alive on a 25 euro deposit mind you.

I always mention session RTP to games providers as something they should provide in their admin systems (that way CSRs won't need to use a spreadsheet and the info would be much more readily available), until then a lot of casinos simply aren't going to take the time to calculate it unfortunately.

Ive probably had worse Gambling...... Why do we do it :eek::D

Or take a leaf out of BET-AT.EU book and publish these in the account section No annoying support. no having to check the play-logs which could be 100s of pages,

A great idea whomever came up with it, anything that makes the casino's and players life easier is always a good thing
 

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Igor82

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Location
Malta
I've seen worse, depends on the game.
In fact I just calculated one for someone which was a shade under 25%.
it was for a play session of Dead or Alive on a 25 euro deposit mind you.

I always mention session RTP to games providers as something they should provide in their admin systems (that way CSRs won't need to use a spreadsheet and the info would be much more readily available), until then a lot of casinos simply aren't going to take the time to calculate it unfortunately.

Why wait for game providers? I dont think they even need to expose this... The formula is so simple that operators really shouldn't be so apprehensive about it: Each operator has the transactions and the time-scale requested is almost always the same: last sessions (log-in to log-out across all games), last game session or lifetime... IMO this 5 sec job can be done for everyone, especially by someone as huge as will hill.

What I'm baffled about is why hide it??? :confused:

It's not like not telling the player will make them feel any better about the game-play they've been experiencing "Ah you cant tell me the RTP? Oh well, I must have imagined the utterly rape-like session I've just undergone..."

Like that's ever going to happen... ehhh :rolleyes:
 

zebedy

No!!!! Im Spartacus
Joined
Jun 1, 2007
Location
Up a Tree
I should just add my game-play wasn't at Will Hill but another accredited casino. I just posted here as the thread was also about RTP
 

Redbet-Andy

Dormant account - New account: AndyB-MrGreen
Joined
Jun 22, 2010
Location
Malta
Why wait for game providers? IMO this 5 sec job can be done for everyone, especially by someone as huge as will hill.

What I'm baffled about is why hide it??? :confused:
:

I see what you're saying but it can be difficult, especially for the bigger players with hundreds of thousands of customers.

In a past life I launched this.
We then had to take it down because it led to so much confusion among players.

"How can I have got 97% return when I didn't win any money?"
"You liar you are saying I won money and I have never withdrawn anything!"
"What the hell is this?"
"I want a refund, you said I'd get 97.5% back and I only got 80%" etc
:)

Fair play to you for having it though.
 

Igor82

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Location
Malta
In a past life I launched this.
We then had to take it down because it led to so much confusion among players.


Fair play to you for having it though.

I don't completely agree personally. These days, information is so readily available that while it works well for players in deciding which business to give their money too, it also works in their favour in educating themselves.

It's not rocket science to explain that RTP% on a losing player is simply an indication of their game play duration - how much fun was awarded for their investment while having a possibility to come out on top.

Transparency and reason do work in every industry in overwhelming quality (you do get the odd customer here and there that's just a plank but that is true for every business).

Even in my previous job working for the top 5 operator - we always gave out RTP% details and a fair explanation. I'm yet to remember if it ever worked against us.

I know it doesn't take much, i know it's readily available and it comes down to policy. I just simply disagree with the one outlined at the beginning of this thread.

Just my 2 pence really :)
 

chris87

Dormant Account
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Location
UK
As a new member of Casinomeister I thought I'd add my experience of being a William Hill customer games slots player and the issue of RTP.

I joined WH 2 months ago, deposited £100 and took the £20 welcome bonus. This soon disappeared, ok it happens, so I thought I'd try another £100 and if I lost that I'd call it a day. Well, my luck was good and I won £600, so I cashed out. To be fair it only took a couple of days for the money to be in my bank account.

But since then the story has been different. I do understand that gambling is a risk and you should expect to lose if you take the risk. I've been gambling long enough to know that. The bottom line is that since my £600 withdrawal 2 months ago, I've deposited just short of £2000 and lost it all. More fool me, yes I accept that, but the RTP (if I could find it out!) must be shockingly low. I'm a regular player at 3 other on line casinos and over the past 5 years probably played at 10 others and can honestly say I've not experienced anything like it.

My deposits have not being in big chunks, usually £50, but sometime £100 and my stakes never exceeded £1.50 per spin. Typical results have been two £0.75 wins for £50 of play and I had one run of two £1.25 wins and three £3.00 wins from £100 of spins. Bonuses are rare, when they have come up the maximum total win from 10 spins has been less than £15.00.

So, I thought I'd check my RTP and so contacted the WH on line help. It was obvious the gentleman did not understand what RTP was and after nearly 30 minutes of going back and forth could not, or would not tell me. All he kept saying was that my average return should be 98% and the slots are regulated and calibrated. I therefore called WH customer service to be told that the gentleman on line would not have been able to help as English was not his first language, but then was curtly told that she could not help either as they were having "technical difficulties", so I am none the wiser.

I do realise that the claim is that casinos cannot influence pay outs, but it seems significant that many have had a similar experience with William Hill. I would certainly not recommend them given my experience. I get the feel that as a big player in the UK high street that customer service is not a priority. Maybe they're having to recoup some funds to pay their fine to 32Red!

CM is a great website btw
 
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