William Hill Casino banned me from all LIVE Games

What is odd is that this was only a ban from live games, not the casino. If this were purely a risk issue, the player would have been booted completely. This is far more specific than there being something odd found, the risk department not having any proof, or even evidence to take things further, and playing safe and booting the player. The risk department clearly have something more solid to go on, and it is specific to the live games. It means the casino don't entirely trust the live games cannot be tampered with by a very clever player, but they see no risk in allowing the player to carry on playing against the RNG.

Perhaps there have been past instances of players being able to influence the live games, and they are booting players who have a profile that suggests they might have found a way to do it.

I do remember that oddity at 32Red that had them give a player the benefit of the doubt over a large live dealer bet, and then pull the game. I don't think they found out what had happened, but there was clearly uncertainty over whether something could have gone wrong.

The simplest worry could be that some players have managed to tap into the feed at source, and see the result before it manages to find it's way through the cyberhighway into the casino lobby. Not so far fetched if you remember that such things could be bounced from a satellite, so a direct feed would gain a second or more, possibly long enough to outsmart the live dealer software.

They would have no proof, but would be able to calculate whether this could have happened by using probability theory on the players' outcomes.

I think Playtech live dealer games come from studios in the Philippines, which is half way round the world from where they are consumed. If you believe Einstein, it could be done;)

My main problem are not the live dealers. My main problem is, that i won OC and they gave me a restriction and I don`t know why. Had a new concersation with the online chat. She said the management will contact me in 24-48 hours, just like the last time. I told her that I want to hear a reason. Now 20 minutes were gone and I don`t have an answer. Last time I had an answer within 5 minutes. I have seen that a representive from WH saw this threat today, maybe there is a chance to play WH again.
 
What is odd is that this was only a ban from live games, not the casino.

That's a fair point - it is odd to restrict access to one game type while allowing all others. I would have thought that bonus/comp points would be restricted at the same time.

The simplest worry could be that some players have managed to tap into the feed at source, and see the result before it manages to find it's way through the cyberhighway into the casino lobby. Not so far fetched if you remember that such things could be bounced from a satellite, so a direct feed would gain a second or more, possibly long enough to outsmart the live dealer software.

No i don't think you would - you can interact with the dealer the entire time you are playing, the dealer stops to wait for your actions at least in blackjack, so as the dealer has to wait for your actions before they take their actions having a 'tap into the feed' wouldn't make any difference. The only way that would help is if you could know the outcome of the hand, or infact the hand that was going to be dealt/card that was going to be dealt before they were dealt. Even a direct feed wouldn't have this information as the computer does not scan the cards until they are drawn from the shoe (unless of course they are keeping track of the composition of the entire shoe in advance, but if that was the case firstly it would be worrying and secondly there would be no reason for them to put that on any feed to casino client at all - it would only be used by the pit boss in the casino venue itself).

I don't know if i explained that very well.
 
My main problem are not the live dealers. My main problem is, that i won OC and they gave me a restriction and I don`t know why. Had a new concersation with the online chat. She said the management will contact me in 24-48 hours, just like the last time. I told her that I want to hear a reason. Now 20 minutes were gone and I don`t have an answer. Last time I had an answer within 5 minutes. I have seen that a representive from WH saw this threat today, maybe there is a chance to play WH again.

You should walk away. Even if they do reverse the decision, you are going to be placed under the microscope whenever you play, and they will probably look for reasons to confiscate your next big win.

The fact they are even discussing this means this is more "gut feeling" than hard evidence, and even if they can find no solid evidence, the "gut feeling" will remain, and they will still feel you got "one over" on them somehow, and will keep looking at your play.

Longer term, your streak will vanish, and WH will win back all that money, and probably more. Do they deserve it after this treatment, or should a casino that has treated you better be honoured with the chance to win Will Hill's money from you.

I had this kind of BS in the real world. A seaside arcade saw me win just under £20, and the manager came over to me and said I could play only the machines he said I could, and not any of the others. I WALKED OUT! taking that £20 off to the pier. It was a case of I can play all of the machines, or none of them. I have never set foot in the place since, and this was 20 years ago.

I actually have an account at Will Hill, but have not touched it since they abandoned Crypto.
 
You should walk away. Even if they do reverse the decision, you are going to be placed under the microscope whenever you play, and they will probably look for reasons to confiscate your next big win.

The fact they are even discussing this means this is more "gut feeling" than hard evidence, and even if they can find no solid evidence, the "gut feeling" will remain, and they will still feel you got "one over" on them somehow, and will keep looking at your play.

Longer term, your streak will vanish, and WH will win back all that money, and probably more. Do they deserve it after this treatment, or should a casino that has treated you better be honoured with the chance to win Will Hill's money from you.

I had this kind of BS in the real world. A seaside arcade saw me win just under £20, and the manager came over to me and said I could play only the machines he said I could, and not any of the others. I WALKED OUT! taking that £20 off to the pier. It was a case of I can play all of the machines, or none of them. I have never set foot in the place since, and this was 20 years ago.

I actually have an account at Will Hill, but have not touched it since they abandoned Crypto.
You are absolutely right. But I have one good reason for WH.
They give a lot of bonuses. I deposit Euro 1000 two weeks ago, I lost Euro 500 and they gave me Euro 156.00 Bonus.
All the other months I played there they gave me bonus. No wagering 20 times or so it was always a cash bonus.
 
You are absolutely right. But I have one good reason for WH.
They give a lot of bonuses. I deposit Euro 1000 two weeks ago, I lost Euro 500 and they gave me Euro 156.00 Bonus.
All the other months I played there they gave me bonus. No wagering 20 times or so it was always a cash bonus.

I bet they won't if they let you back on the live games.
 
You are absolutely right. But I have one good reason for WH.
They give a lot of bonuses. I deposit Euro 1000 two weeks ago, I lost Euro 500 and they gave me Euro 156.00 Bonus.
All the other months I played there they gave me bonus. No wagering 20 times or so it was always a cash bonus.

Well it is clear now that your reason for complaint in the forum has nothing to do with indignation about being excluded from certain games, but rather the fact that you're pissed because you can't use their bonuses to your advantage any more.

The fact that you're happy to go back proves it.

You almost had me believing it was a principle thing.
 
Hello Sascha,

This is Sheann from the Supervisory Team.

We write further to your recent contact with our Online Support Team regarding the fact you are unable to play on Live Games.

William Hill Casino Club reserves the right, through our terms and conditions, to accept or refuse the whole or part of any bet placed with ourselves. At times we may chose to restrict the maximum value which a customer may place, but this is within our right to do so and we are not obliged to present any further details relating to this decision.

Note that this practice is common throughout the gaming world and whilst we understand you may not be satisfied with this, it is our prerogative to do so.

Please be guided. Thank you.

Thank you very much.
Thanks from a loyal player who never comes back.
 
I doubt it had anything to do with bonuses on Will Hills side, else they would have banned him from bonuses, not let him use the same bonuses in the same way on the non-live games.

Will Hill are hiding behind their terms and conditions, rather than discussing this further. It is clear this is all "sour grapes" on Will Hill's part, a player is too lucky for them to believe it is pure good fortune, so assume that he must have some kind of angle that only works on the live games, but cannot work with the software.

All it shows is that Will Hill don't have faith in the integrity of their live games, so I hope they remember this when a player complains of a potential malfunction in the live games that favours the casino, else they will be branded as hippocrites.

There are plenty of other softwares offering live games, and all are pretty much the same, streamed from a studio somewhere into the casino software.
 
All casinos are well within their right to restrict people from playing at their casino. Just like I'm well within my right not to let that weird chick down the hall come in my apartment just because she knocks on the door.

I don't believe that casinos should be banning players without giving a solid reason why. It's bad for business. I, on the other hand don't need to give a reason. I can look through the peep hole and just go sit back on the couch.

Here's the way I see it.

You got banned from a casino without much of a reason. That sucks.
They paid you a good chunk of money first and then banned you. That puts you about a million miles ahead of most people who get banned from casinos. Most people are lucky if they get their deposits back. That makes it suck a whole lot less.

So take your money and go play somewhere else. The casino has just put themselves in a position where they will never be able to win. That doesn't happen very often. Grin and move on.
 
I think Playtech live dealer games come from studios in the Philippines, which is half way round the world from where they are consumed. If you believe Einstein, it could be done;)

I agree with most of what Einstein says. Which part helps us win at WH??
 
Why do players get banned from live games but NOT from the software games? The casino doesn't ban the player, it just bans him from playing one flavour of their games.

Perhaps there have been past instances of players being able to influence the live games, and they are booting players who have a profile that suggests they might have found a way to do it.

Perhaps this thread contains the answer to those questions.....

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/hello.51045/
 
It has to be a card counting issue surely. With the random non-live games, the deck(s) is shuffled every hand, you always know that the house has an edge. With playing live from a shoe, and the card count is well into the positive, then the edge lies with the player.

I'm not saying this what the original poster was doing but I'm sure this is what the casino will be most wary of.

This is why with a lot of live blackjack tables, if you don't play, and just watch for 3 hands or more, the window will close itself...I.e. You get booted off so you can't watch the action anymore waiting for that favourable spot.
 
i would thank but cant work out how to

:lolup:
Hi folks
here is a funny story from WH. In the last two month i was a little bit lucky and won some Euros (about 6000) and paid all my wins out. I made all my wins with Blackjack and Baccarat, sometimes with the Live Dealers. Two weeks ago i wanted to play again, but for me there are no Live Dealers and my max. bet for online BJ and Baccarat is now Euro 30 :what:. I asked the support why and got a mail back:

Dear Sascha,



We write further to your recent contact with our Customer Support Team regarding the fact that you are unable to access the Live Games specifically the Live Baccarat in our casino.



William Hill Casino Club reserves the right, through our terms and conditions, to accept or refuse the whole or part of any bet placed with ourselves. At times we may choose to restrict the game(s) which a customer may play, but this is within our right to do so. This practice is common throughout the gaming world and whilst we understand you may not be satisfied with this, it is our prerogative to do so.



We apologize for any inconvenience that this may cause you and value your on-going custom with William Hill Casino Club.



We appreciate your understanding regarding this matter. Should you have any other queries, please feel free to contact us.



Kind Regards,



Adriana Fernàndez-Ruis

Account Specialist


Well, I played for years WH, sometimes a winner, sometimes a looser. But after that I left. In my opinion it`s not a good way to handle with customers.
 
It has to be a card counting issue surely. With the random non-live games, the deck(s) is shuffled every hand, you always know that the house has an edge. With playing live from a shoe, and the card count is well into the positive, then the edge lies with the player.

I'm not saying this what the original poster was doing but I'm sure this is what the casino will be most wary of.

This is why with a lot of live blackjack tables, if you don't play, and just watch for 3 hands or more, the window will close itself...I.e. You get booted off so you can't watch the action anymore waiting for that favourable spot.

No, definitifily no card counting. I just played on, high bets and lot of luck for me. No cheats.
 
All I want to say is that you are not welcome in some casinos, if you win. I checked my credit card. My wins on WH are about Euro 4500 since February. If I have a system, I would never lose a unit. But I do. And when I win, then I`m lucky, no more...
 
No, definitifily no card counting. I just played on, high bets and lot of luck for me. No cheats.

Card Counting isn't cheating ;)

All I want to say is that you are not welcome in some casinos, if you win. I checked my credit card. My wins on WH are about Euro 4500 since February. If I have a system, I would never lose a unit. But I do. And when I win, then I`m lucky, no more...

Playing a winning game almost never means winning every unit, it simply means overall you should win more than you lose over the long run.

As has been pointed out already, you can play the same elsewhere so unless there's more to add your best route is just that....
 
It would seem that this "visual ballistics" business is scaring online casinos with live games, but since it cannot be detected, the only way they can hope to trace it is to look for "unusually lucky" players, and boot the lot of them, guilty or innocent.

If VB works online as it clearly does offline, no amount of "shuffling" is going to stop it in Roulette.

With card games, restricting shoe penetration would remove the advantage of card counting.


Whilst it may be "harder" online, once a method has been worked out, there is no hiding the kit in a mobile phone, one's shoe, etc, it is simply installed on the PC, or even another PC with a webcam recording the action (thus not even detectable by scanning the running processes).

It would quickly become EASIER online, as everything can be set up at home, and then used as necessary.

Will Hill are never going to admit that Visual Ballistics can beat Playtech live roulette, but it seems we have our first case of a "roulette system" for online roulette that can actually work!

With the right software, one does not even need the necessary degree of advanced knowledge to operate a Visual Ballistics system, one would simply bet what the software tells you to bet.

It probably works because the studios didn't think they would ever have to contend with such an issue, so allow bets later than is the case in land casinos. When land casinos were worried about this problem, they simply declared "No more bets" before the ball had left the croupier's hand, so that by the time even the fastest concealed computer could predict a quadrant, it was already too late to place the bet. Card counting has been dealt with by reducing shoe penetration, and the introduction of shuffling machines, or using new decks each time the shoe is reset.

With neither system will you win every bet, but you will move the RTP over 100% in the long term, allowing a slow but steady gain.
 
It would seem that this "visual ballistics" business is scaring online casinos with live games, but since it cannot be detected, the only way they can hope to trace it is to look for "unusually lucky" players, and boot the lot of them, guilty or innocent.

If VB works online as it clearly does offline, no amount of "shuffling" is going to stop it in Roulette.
There is a very simple solution: not accepting further bets once dealer has launched the ball.
 
There is a very simple solution: not accepting further bets once dealer has launched the ball.

Exactly! I'm sure it wont be long before this becomes the norm for live games in online casinos. TBH I'm a litle surprised the bigger operators are not already rushing to do this.
 

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