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Wierd situation?

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by bigsmile, Sep 28, 2013.

    Sep 28, 2013
  1. bigsmile

    bigsmile Banned User - troll

    Occupation:
    sales
    Location:
    usa
    Hi all. This is my first post. I'm not really sure if this is in the right place because I don't really have an official complaint per se. I just have an issue but it doesn't seem to fit nicely under any of the forum headers. I'm a bit nervous so please be gentle on this newb!

    I have been playing online for a few months now. I am American, so I am limited by which casinos I can play at or like. I do like RTG as my favorite. However, I had a horrible experience with a group. I am not sure if I should say who since I launched a CDS complaint and then the complaint was resolved in my favor!
    What happened is that this group accepted my fax forms and allowed me to play. However, as soon as I actually won they sent me an email stating that I had suspicious credit cards and they were voiding my winnings and sending back deposits only. Well, I contacted them and they called me a chargeback. This was not true and not even close to true. I argued and argued but they were not interested in a real conversation. They would just say stupid things. Finally I saw that I could complain to CDS and prove that I have never, ever charged back any credit card. Not EVER. CDS took the complaint and soon I was paid all of my winnings and proved that this was not true at all.

    My problem is that this stupid group put me on some kind of "list". The list is like a warning to online casinos that Im a chargeback person. BUT IT NEVER HAPPENED. However, I still cant make deposits at RTG casinos. I really just want to play at club world right now but they said I was on this list and they have a system and that they cannot change it. So I am effectively being punished for something that I have never done. It really is frustrating for me. Is there anyone on this form that can help fix this or that can please tell me if there is a next step to undo this list thing? Goodness, I just want to play at this point but I really just want to play at clubworld where I don't have to worry about being cheated and filing complaints and stuff.

    Thanks for any help guys! (and gals).
     
  2. Sep 28, 2013
  3. Andy Walker

    Andy Walker Full Member

    Occupation:
    Tax Payer
    Location:
    UK
    I am not going to question whether you or the casino was right but any business has the right to decline your deposits. If you are on a list then you have to accept it.

    It's hard to believe a casino that wants your money after admitting they made a mistake would not do the business thing of accepting you back as a customer and recover what they lost. :cool:
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Sep 28, 2013
  5. skiny

    skiny Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas

    Occupation:
    Doing everyone else's job.
    Location:
    Canada
    Any casino has the right not to accept your deposits but casinos don't have the right to put you on a blacklist list of fraudulent players under false pretenses.

    To me the most surprising part of this story is that CDS was helpful. I always thought that CDS form was directly linked to a recycle bin on someone's Windows 95 desktop.
     
    4 people like this.
  6. Sep 28, 2013
  7. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    Can we please see the official full decision by CDS. You state the casino....it makes no difference. In fact, it might help.

    We need to know EXACTLY why CDS found in your favour.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Sep 28, 2013
  9. Andy Walker

    Andy Walker Full Member

    Occupation:
    Tax Payer
    Location:
    UK
    Even if the findings by the CDS were found in the OP’s favour there is nothing to stop this practice. You can’t argue that the OP is being refused from using an essential service.

    A blacklist from using essential services like electricity, gas, rental and water because of non-payment, issues with payments, issues with overcharging from the supplier, disagreements with bill levels etc. could be challenged because these are considered basic human rights.

    Not being able to gamble would be laughed out of court IMO.
     
  10. Sep 28, 2013
  11. chayton

    chayton aka LooHoo CAG PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Freelance Designer
    Location:
    Edmonton Canada
    Well being labelled a chargebacker (is that a word?) effectively will end your gambling online. If you are on this 'list' and you're innocent, you'd think there's something that could be done. :confused:

    I'm thinking that if you send a PM to the ClubWorld rep and lay it out for them with any evidence that you have that CDS found in your favor and go from there. Basically any casino has the right to refuse to have you as a customer, so if they say no there's not much you can do about it.
     
  12. Sep 28, 2013
  13. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    If only we had an expert on UK Law on the forums......


    Well it's like a linebacker except....well it's not :D

    What we need to know is WHY CDS found in their favour. It's possible they did not deal with the chargeback issue at all, but rather ruled for the player for other reasons. Who knows? It's why the OP should provide the precise decision from CDS.

    It's also possible that the OP did a chargeback AFTER the dispute was settled. Just saying.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Sep 28, 2013
  15. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    Hi bigsmile,

    Welcome to the forum. Nice username:D.

    The fact that CDS ruled in your favour speaks volumes as in the past they used to side with the casino and places like Casinomeister and Gambling Grumbles are far more effective in getting players back their rightful winnings.

    You may not have actually made a chargeback but I understand that the mere threat of it is sufficient to place you on a blacklist. So did you ever mention such a thing such as saying you will recover your deposits if they don't pay. If you don't get to the bottom of this, as an American this could effectively end your gaming experience as RTG is probably the only software to embraces US players though the Rival brand is starting to accept USA players again from what I hear.
     
    2 people like this.
  16. Sep 28, 2013
  17. skiny

    skiny Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas

    Occupation:
    Doing everyone else's job.
    Location:
    Canada
    Well, it would be nice to know why CDS found in the OP's favour but like you said, it may have nothing to do with the chargeback accusation.

    There's obviously no way for anyone here to know if this person charged back any deposits but Andy's comment that if you're on this list you just have to accept it is hardly fair. If a person hasn't charged back any deposits they shouldn't have to just accept being blacklisted for doing so.

    Where exactly is this list? Is it stored somewhere or is it just updated and passed around like a chain letter?

    Add 10 names to this list and mail it to 10 people on or you will have bad luck for the next 10 years!
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2013
    2 people like this.
  18. Sep 28, 2013
  19. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    I agree that we need to see the CDS decision so that we have all the facts.

    Club World is in my experience one of the few decent groups using RTG software, and an approach through them to RTG (with all the facts) might yield results, as I believe that any blacklist (admitted or not) would probably be centralised at the software provider.
     
  20. Sep 28, 2013
  21. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    :lolup:

    As I understand it, pretty much ALL software suppliers hold an electronic central database of ALL registered players across their whole network which all casinos in their network have access to.
    This makes an awful lot of sense from an anti-fraud point of view, as it helps to prevent serial fraudsters from just hopping from one casino to the next trying to con them in one way or another. The downside is when innocent players get caught in the net, which seems to be the case here.

    If these databases were regulated by law somewhere, one would hope that the effected players would have some right to appeal - but in the case of online casinos, it seems there is very little they can do. :(

    In this particular case I would agree with those who suggested above, to contact Club World or another reputable RTG operator and see if there is anything they can do to help.

    Failing that, it looks like the only option is a change of software... which might not be a bad thing since it is RTG we are talking about... :rolleyes:

    KK
     
    2 people like this.
  22. Sep 28, 2013
  23. bigsmile

    bigsmile Banned User - troll

    Occupation:
    sales
    Location:
    usa
    OK, thank you all for your advice. Let me try to answer all the questions and if I did not then please let me know and I will answer better.

    Firstly, I am very happy with CDS. They were prompt, communicative and obviously helpful. There was mention on the site about privacy and such. At this point until I hear from someone with more knowledge or authority I will not say the casino group because I think I agreed not to by filing a cds dispute, correct? I can tell you that I see they are on the rogue list here though they used to be on accredited list it says.

    Secondly, I am asked by "nifty" for details of WHY cds ruled in my favor. Well, they don't come out and say it. The obvious answer is because I have never ever had any chargeback. But here is the exact response that I received.

    That is all.

    To answer another question, NO. I have never ever threatened a chargeback (didn't even know what it was before this mess) or did a chargeback before, during or after. As a matter of fact the casino group gave me very vague and different reasons via email. It was on the phone and live chat where this "chargeback" rubbish started. Here are the email quotes from the casino:


    The silly part of all this is that I have a prepaid card that I just got and have used for NOTHING other than online play. Never purchased anything else so it has a very short history and was easy to go back and show any transaction. The CDS resolution came in pretty fast and I am certain that the casino group was just trying to not pay my winnings. That is all it was. I am almost sure of it. I cannot fathom what else could be at issue with a prepaid card. I don't even know if you CAN charge back pre paid cards? Regardless, that's nothing that I am interested in anyways.

    I just want a chance to play at clubworld again. I have made 2 successful deposits in the past. I liked the casino and never had any issue at all. I have approved faxback form and documents so that is all clear. It was after this other casino's rubbish and them falsely putting me on some list that my depositing issues started.

    Someone mentioned a pm to someone important from club world? is that on this forum? Please give me information on how to do that? I would like to try that please.

    Again, thank you so very much for all of the responses. I appreciate the help, I really do.
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. Sep 28, 2013
  25. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    Let's see what we can do. You have only been playing online for several months and made 2 successful deposits at Club World. The chargeback, negative activity or whatever it was must have been conducted after those 2 successful deposits till the time the casino in question denied your winnings. That narrows the time span. The next thing to sort out is what deposit methods you had used during that period. Dig out the card statements and check if there is anything irregular. Hope this helps.
     
    4 people like this.
  26. Sep 28, 2013
  27. bsilva028

    bsilva028 Banned : multi-account fraudster PABnoaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    salesman
    Location:
    portugal
    let me see
    by what you have said, you played in club world without problems

    you tried out another casino, had that problems, and now you cant deposite neither in that casino neither in club world, however the problem was in the "other" casino?

    to check if the other casino its acredited and have a rep on the forum, see it here: http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/category/rtg-7/
    to contact the club world rep. go here, http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/clubworld.html and "send private message" explaining
     
  28. Sep 28, 2013
  29. skiny

    skiny Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas

    Occupation:
    Doing everyone else's job.
    Location:
    Canada
    I honestly had no idea the CDS really helped anyone. I thought 80% of the casino names in that drop down box weren't even really casinos. Don't get me wrong, if the CDS is going to start being helpful that's a good thing. I had an issue with a rogue casino when I first started gambling online and my complaint just seemed to go off into the ether but that was many years ago. I dealt with it myself.

    Seems a little vague to me. All the activities on my credit cards are negative. Same goes for my bank account.


    this is the link to the CW rep. If anyone can straighten it out, I guess it's him.
     
  30. Sep 28, 2013
  31. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    He already said the "Other casino" is on the rogue list, but used to be accredited:
    I would think that narrows it down to one of the Rushmore Group of casinos, as they are the only RTG ones I can think of off the top of my head, that had such a dramatic fall from grace.

    KK
     
    3 people like this.
  32. Sep 28, 2013
  33. MisterBJ

    MisterBJ Account suspended until further notice - please co

    Occupation:
    Fedex
    Location:
    Atlanta
    From my understanding. Most of the casinos are using the same standard company to detect fraud. Like this one You must register/login in order to see the link.

    Once your name is entered into it. It will appear at all casinos who subscribes to it. Youur credit card # is entered, also along with email addresses.

    The problem is, there is no way of seeing a report on who reported you, or a way to appeal. Some US facing casinos are losing out on businesses because they restrict someone because of this database.
    A better solution would be to allow Western Union deposits and allow that player a chance to prove if he/she is worthy of your services.

    This is part of the reason deposits are trying up at some US facing casinos. They restrict potential players. Due to a semi-flawed databases.
     
  34. Sep 28, 2013
  35. bsilva028

    bsilva028 Banned : multi-account fraudster PABnoaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    salesman
    Location:
    portugal
    forgot to read that part, thanks
     
  36. Sep 28, 2013
  37. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    The legal part as far as the UK goes is quite simple - should ANY Credit Ref Agency hold false or inaccurate information on you, they must correct it or add a note to your file when you point it out to them in writing and explain the discrepancy. People can and often have received damages where the false information has caused distress, inconvenience or associated loss. It is estimated 33% of files on UK citizens contain errors. Now if such a file exists on a casino database, it would depend on the jurisdiction it is under. Then a demonstrable loss is harder to prove as if it stopped you playing, then you can't by definition have lost anything except a potential piece of 'enjoyment'. In the OP's case, there is a clear case of loss caused by inaccurate information supplied (although he was refunded eventually so void in his particular case). Had he not been refunded, then the question remains how and from whom would he claim the winnings after his deposits only were refunded?

    He was fortunate IMO as there was obviously a system of recourse open to him where he is, but this would be unlikely in most other cases or countries. I even suspect the casino made the whole excuse up to avoid paying, and he called their bluff by unexpectedly challenging the decision using the correct and provable procedure(s).

    There is a saying 'it's hard to prove a negative' - this is where the player is left usually in cases such as this.
     
  38. Sep 28, 2013
  39. naththo

    naththo Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Currently working as a clerk casual part time for
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia.
    Deleted.
    Edit: Not worth posting.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2013

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