Whitebet Locked My Account

[Tropicana50]

I have been an avid player of RedBet for quite some time and when I saw others mention they had a new casino available I jumped on the chance to catch their promotions all over again. My account at RedBet is currently on self-exclusion for 27 more days so I decided to hit up their live support before creating an account to make sure I was fine and dandy to signup and take their promotions.

Several minutes later and I was given the green flag and was good to go. 50 euros loaded in (doubled up to 100) and around an hour in to play and my account suddenly becomes blocked. I request more information from support but they tell me they know nothing, they have requested more information but they don't know when they will receive an answer?

So my (now 110 euros) is currently locked for an unknown reason and support have signed off for the night.

Not a great first impression at all. Has anyone else had a similar experience here?

- T

 

[Googobucs]

Check out the last post in this thread from redbet. It may have to do with your redbet account being on self exclusion.
Maybe give him a PM shout.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/whitebet-part-of-redbet-group.65385/

 

[Tropicana50]

Check out the last post in this thread from redbet. It may have to do with your redbet account being on self exclusion.
Maybe give him a PM shout.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/whitebet-part-of-redbet-group.65385/

I specifically checked with support regarding this exact matter and they said it was perfectly fine to open an account at Whitebet despite being on self exclusion at RedBet. I am going to be pretty damn pissed if this is the reason behind this lock.

- T

 

[Googobucs]

I specifically checked with support regarding this exact matter and they said it was perfectly fine to open an account at Whitebet despite being on self exclusion at RedBet. I am going to be pretty damn pissed if this is the reason behind this lock.

- T

I would be pissed off too. This is not necessarily the reason. I just happened to remember reading this post earlier today.
Hopefully they resolve it quickly.

 

[daenyboi]

Well, i signed up and deposited there 3 days ago and my deposit was queued for almost 1 day but then cleared and then i played, verified and stuff.

Ive been waiting for one withdrawal from then for more then 30 hours now to, so either they dont payout on weekends or are extremely slow, which also caused me to reverse it & lose some money and to make a new withdraw again.

 

[Azzurri]

Whilst you are allowed to open an account and play at any of their groups sites, you are NOT allowed to take the same bonus or promotion more than once across any of their site collectively.

Eg. You are only allowed to use the welcome bonus once at any one site ever.

This is in their terms, and I personally have had it explained to me by their CS quite clearly in the past.

I'm fairly shocked to suddenly see all these threads popping up, as either people aren't reading the terms, or the Redbet group have suddenly employed all new cs staff who are giving incorrect info to customers.

 

[gokkie]

I have asked live chat at whitebet about this. It is not possible to play at whitebet while self-excluded at redbet. I am self excluded at redbet but am not allowed to play at whitebet.

 

[dunover]

Just to confirm when I was tidying up old accounts last week and closing them, you cannot play at one Redbet group site if you are excluded from another. Unfortunately they don't distinguish between 'taking a break' with the RG settings or gambling issues. I checked with CS too and the above post is correct.

 

[daenyboi]

I have asked live chat at whitebet about this. It is not possible to play at whitebet while self-excluded at redbet. I am self excluded at redbet but am not allowed to play at whitebet.

There is nothing at all in Whitebets Terms & Condition stated nothing at all about what you just said here.

Read em all but might have missed something. Only thing i didnt read was the bonus terms, which i dont care about anyway since i never use them.

 

[Tropicana50]

They responded this morning with an email that says:

We can see that you decided to lock your account on Redbet until 2015-01-29 11:56:47

According to the laws and regulations in Malta we have to close all accounts created on our sister brands as well since we are operating under same same gambling license.

I will contact our security department to get more information on how we can get your funds back to you.

For now, have a great day

Kind regards

Robin

I am pretty furious about this as I specifically asked this question before signing up.

Do not trust what WhiteBet Live Support tells you!

What a really awful experience.

- T

 

[gokkie]

There is nothing at all in Whitebets Terms & Condition stated nothing at all about what you just said here.

Read em all but might have missed something. Only thing i didnt read was the bonus terms, which i dont care about anyway since i never use them.

Just checked the terms on whitebet and redbet, did not find anything about it either. But live chat was very clear about it.
I think the same goes for unibet and maria casino: you cannot play at maria when excluded at unibet. (Not 100% sure about that though)

 

[Tropicana50]

This is the latest update from their live support...

Support Robin:
Welcome to our LiveChat support. I'm happy to assist you in either English or Swedish.
Me:
Hi Robin.
Support Robin:
Hello
Me:
I am pretty angry right now.
Support Robin:
Ah yes, I can understand that
Me:
Your support host told me a pack of lies.
Me:
How do you intend to get the 110 euros to me?
Support Robin:
Well, it is €50 since 50 of it is bonus funds.
Support Robin:
There are ways that we can go about this, but I have to check with the security department on how we should resolve this
Me:
Yeah, thats total bullshit, you can't just steal the money I have a wager against.
Me:
I have played through a portion of that bonus wager.
Support Robin:
Yes, either you can wait until the 29th and you can keep your wagering. Or we remove the bonus and send back your funds
Me:
I specifically asked your support host all of these queries regarding this exact issue and was told it was fine.
Me:
He represents WhiteBet, correct?
Support Robin:
Well, our support host? You are talking about my colleague, a support agent.
Me:
Review my first chat with Christoffer.
Me:
Before I signed up I came to chat and asked if I was allowed to signup because of my current status with RedBet.
Me:
I then asked if I was allowed to take promotions.
Me:
I was given a full green light to go proceed.
Support Robin:
Yes I can see the chat here. What he said was unfortunately completely wrong, we are sorry for that.
Support Robin:
Since we are operating under the same gambling license we can't allow any gameplay on any of our brands during this time.
Me:
This is what your chat host should of said from the get-go and we would be perfectly fine.
Me:
It is YOUR fault this circumstance exists.
Support Robin:
Yes, I know that there has been a mistake here. But lets focus on how we can solve this instead?
Me:
I'm all ears on a solution but what has currently been offered to me either has me waiting weeks to play a balance or take a 60 euro loss. These don't sound like enticing options Robin.
Support Robin:
No, I can understand that. You will not like this but I think its better to get it out of the way now. The bonus you have used on whitebet is most likely not valid
Support Robin:
This is due to this rules in our t&c
Support Robin:
7.9 Gaming Operator reserves the right to void bonuses and winnings if the Player or any person in the cusMeers household has previously received a similar or equal bonus on one of our other brands. This applies to both sports betting and casino bonuses.
Support Robin:
That bonus is a welcome bonus, which you have used on redbet already
Me:
This was again, another question I specifically asked.
Me:
You need to make good on your mistake. It is not fair that I have to take some kind of punishment due to your lacklustre support host.
Me:
You should remove the 50 bonus and send me back whats in the account. I think it will be around 60 euros.
Me:
I can't remember the actual balance as it just kicked me out mid-spin.
Me:
I don't think this is an unreasonable request considering the circumstances.
Support Robin:
Well, we will not pay you back anything more than what you deposited and that is not changing. I have sent a mail to the security department and as soon as we know on how we proceed we will contact you.
Me:
Ok, I really hope that extra 10 euros will be worth the noise I intend to cause about this matter Robin
Support Robin:
Well, you do what you have to do. In the meantime I will work on getting your funds back to you
Support Robin:

Me:
Perfect. I suggest your rep heads over to this thread sometime soon and clarifies some things: https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/whitebet-locked-my-account.65423/?t=65423
Me:
Have a great day Robin.
Support Robin:
You to!
Support Robin:
bye

- T

 

[daenyboi]

So now people should read the laws and regulations of Malta or wherever the gambling sites are registered to find out this stuff about sister sites to?

It sohlud be stated in the regulations on the webpage in my opinion?



Edit: Read your live chat transcript, being mad doesnt almost never help, i would be to though but did u ever use a bonus on redbet for example? And also if you didnt finish the bonus?

I think they will give you a good deal anyway, that Robin guy is very nice so.

 

[Takkaone]

I can understand that you are angry about the situation since you did what you could and should by contacting support BEFORE registering / depositing. Hopefully the guy from whitebet-chat giving you the go, will get "re-trained" but lets be honest, all of us have made mistakes in our respective jobs... Those mistakes happen and always cost someone extra-work or headache. (either for the customer, your superior or the guys you supervise...)

But to the issue with your money? I could swear that whitebet is between a rock and a hard place here... If they could you already had your money back! But sending any more as the amount you deposited would basically mean, that they let an excluded person gamble... This would be against the license they are operating on, which would cause them even bigger problems as an angry ex-customer letting of steam on the internet.

So they probably are trying to figure out a way to void your bets and roll anything back to before your deposit AND comply to the regulations they are licensed by in the whole process.....

 

[daenyboi]

I can understand that you are angry about the situation since you did what you could and should by contacting support BEFORE registering / depositing. Hopefully the guy from whitebet-chat giving you the go, will get "re-trained" but lets be honest, all of us have made mistakes in our respective jobs... Those mistakes happen and always cost someone extra-work or headache. (either for the customer, your superior or the guys you supervise...)

But to the issue with your money? I could swear that whitebet is between a rock and a hard place here... If they could you already had your money back! But sending any more as the amount you deposited would basically mean, that they let an excluded person gamble... This would be against the license they are operating on, which would cause them even bigger problems as an angry ex-customer letting of steam on the internet.

So they probably are trying to figure out a way to void your bets and roll anything back to before your deposit AND comply to the regulations they are licensed by in the whole process.....

If OP have a transcript from getting the go ahead from live chat, i see no problems as to why not pay 90-100% of the amount of everything, as there is nothing in Whitebets Terms&Conditions about the matter about sister sites, brand and etc. as mentioned earlier in the thread.

 

[Takkaone]

Just guessing here from my side... But after having endured several years of sitting through my countries equivalent of law-school i would bet that they need to find a way "how to name the extra-funds" they send to the OP.

Because if they send them back as his winnings, then there has been a bet accepted and paid out. (Against the law) But i think i should stop speculating here...

 

[vinylweatherman]

Just guessing here from my side... But after having endured several years of sitting through my countries equivalent of law-school i would bet that they need to find a way "how to name the extra-funds" they send to the OP.

Because if they send them back as his winnings, then there has been a bet accepted and paid out. (Against the law) But i think i should stop speculating here...

It could be sent back as a goodwill payment as some compensation for the inaccurate advice received from the first support agent. Other than waiting till the exclusion lapses and continuing where things left off, there is nothing else that can be done without the approval of the regulator, and since this is Malta we are talking about, the wait is likely to be far longer than just waiting it out till the 29th.

Above all, it's yet another example of what can go wrong when costs are cut too far in the CS department, resulting in incompetence and inaccurate responses to player queries.

The shadowy world of exactly who owns what in the industry makes it hard for players to easily figure out what a "sister site" is, they need to be listed, and consistent reciprocal lists and terms should be on all their brands.

 

[dunover]

It could be sent back as a goodwill payment as some compensation for the inaccurate advice received from the first support agent. Other than waiting till the exclusion lapses and continuing where things left off, there is nothing else that can be done without the approval of the regulator, and since this is Malta we are talking about, the wait is likely to be far longer than just waiting it out till the 29th.

Above all, it's yet another example of what can go wrong when costs are cut too far in the CS department, resulting in incompetence and inaccurate responses to player queries.

The shadowy world of exactly who owns what in the industry makes it hard for players to easily figure out what a "sister site" is, they need to be listed, and consistent reciprocal lists and terms should be on all their brands.

Compensation for what exactly? Not reading the terms, which should have been done before CS were ever contacted. The terms on both sites are exactly the same as CS stated:

REDBET T&C's:

7.9 Gaming Operator reserves the right to void bonuses and winnings if the Player or any person in the customers household has previously received a similar or equal bonus on one of our other brands. This applies to both sports betting and casino bonuses.

WHITEBET T&C's:

7.9 Gaming Operator reserves the right to void bonuses and winnings if the Player or any person in the customers household has previously received a similar or equal bonus on one of our other brands. This applies to both sports betting and casino bonuses.


So having read the terms FIRST the player can contact CS and enquire as to which sites are in their group. Or look at the company name down the bottom (like I just did) and in 10 seconds of Googling had the list to answer my question (hardly 'shadowy' Vinyl!)

Bonnier Gaming sites:

1. Redbet Casino
2. Redbet Poker
3. Redbet Sports
4. Bertil
5. Mama Mia Bingo
6. Vinnarum Casino
7. Redbet Live Casino
8. Whitebet
9. Heypoker

 

[dunover]

Just checked the terms on whitebet and redbet, did not find anything about it either. But live chat was very clear about it.
I think the same goes for unibet and maria casino: you cannot play at maria when excluded at unibet. (Not 100% sure about that though)

Not true apparently. You may have seen my 1004x stake on Wild Rockets recently, Unibet paid me in 48 hours. I used the 6-month break to shut my Maria account about 2 months ago.

 

[aceking123]

Not true apparently. You may have seen my 1004x stake on Wild Rockets recently, Unibet paid me in 48 hours. I used the 6-month break to shut my Maria account about 2 months ago.

there both different , the only reason i closed maria was due to them pulling neteller wallets , still have a unibet account

redbet & whitebet have clear terms that your not allowed to take bonuses on both sites , not that it applies any longer to me , due to the forum being filled with things & crappy promos i closed the account yesterday & as pointed in a few threads since andy has left it seems they don't really care about there players , pity i had them in the top ten casinos i would of vouched for

 

[Tropicana50]

there both different , the only reason i closed maria was due to them pulling neteller wallets , still have a unibet account

redbet & whitebet have clear terms that your not allowed to take bonuses on both sites , not that it applies any longer to me , due to the forum being filled with things & crappy promos i closed the account yesterday & as pointed in a few threads since andy has left it seems they don't really care about there players , pity i had them in the top ten casinos i would of vouched for

They were one of my favourite casinos to play at (RedBet), but since this has occurred I will stick to CasinoEuro in the future.

Compensation for what exactly? Not reading the terms, which should have been done before CS were ever contacted. The terms on both sites are exactly the same as CS stated

The chat support only stated the correct terms once a deposit had been made and the wager had started. Initially they stated totally different terms. Unfortunately I don't enjoy spending several hours reading over terms, so using the chat support to verify the relevant details should of been enough. The initial deposit I made should be compensated back to my account.

- T

 

[aceking123]

They were one of my favourite casinos to play at (RedBet), but since this has occurred I will stick to CasinoEuro in the future.



The chat support only stated the correct terms once a deposit had been made and the wager had started. Initially they stated totally different terms. Unfortunately I don't enjoy spending several hours reading over terms, so using the chat support to verify the relevant details should of been enough. The initial deposit I made should be compensated back to my account.

- T

good on you , you should at least get your deposit back to card or wallet , it seems that they only have a couple of cs reps who know there stuff , once a cracking good casino yet another to fall with a big bump . seems video slots has just gained a old player back

 

[dunover]

They were one of my favourite casinos to play at (RedBet), but since this has occurred I will stick to CasinoEuro in the future.



The chat support only stated the correct terms once a deposit had been made and the wager had started. Initially they stated totally different terms. Unfortunately I don't enjoy spending several hours reading over terms, so using the chat support to verify the relevant details should of been enough. The initial deposit I made should be compensated back to my account.

- T

Not usually required anyway. Most of the terms are blather regarding general legal obligations and not paying interest on balances, definitions of 'you and us' etc. Usually a player simply needs to head straight to 'Bonus' & 'Banking' which is 99% of the nitty-gritty. It will encompass WR's, definitions of 'abuse' and maximum bets, max cash-outs, accounts at other group sites, exclusion and KYC requirements.

I do agree that their terms should not be used to confiscate/void a deposit which still sits in the account despite your breaking a bonus acquisition rule.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Compensation for what exactly? Not reading the terms, which should have been done before CS were ever contacted. The terms on both sites are exactly the same as CS stated:

REDBET T&C's:

7.9 Gaming Operator reserves the right to void bonuses and winnings if the Player or any person in the customers household has previously received a similar or equal bonus on one of our other brands. This applies to both sports betting and casino bonuses.

WHITEBET T&C's:

7.9 Gaming Operator reserves the right to void bonuses and winnings if the Player or any person in the customers household has previously received a similar or equal bonus on one of our other brands. This applies to both sports betting and casino bonuses.


So having read the terms FIRST the player can contact CS and enquire as to which sites are in their group. Or look at the company name down the bottom (like I just did) and in 10 seconds of Googling had the list to answer my question (hardly 'shadowy' Vinyl!)

Bonnier Gaming sites:

1. Redbet Casino
2. Redbet Poker
3. Redbet Sports
4. Bertil
5. Mama Mia Bingo
6. Vinnarum Casino
7. Redbet Live Casino
8. Whitebet
9. Heypoker

"shadowy" in a more general sense. Even in this case, it should not be necessary to have to rely on Google in order to obtain a crucial piece of information regarding the terms. A CS agent making a statement or offer on behalf of the company trumps any terms and conditions in any case, however consumers should ensure they obtain written confirmation of this as it's a common ploy of rogue firms to make a verbal agreement with a customer and then renege on it after the fact, and without any proof, the customer struggles to assert their rights in law.
Take, for example, the same type of term in 888.com which also covers what a player can and cannot do "at any of our sister sites", yet even Google is not much help here, as the full list of sister sites is a "commercial secret" that 888/Cassava have refused to publish (so far, that is, the UKGC might drag it out of them).

Your list also differs in part from the lists volunteered by others, and in this particular case, only the full list will do, including the most obscure skins.

The "compensation" is not necessarily an admission of liability, and this is a statement that companies routinely add to any offer of payment in mitigation of a mistake on their part, even if the customer also made a mistake. In a case like this, the offer of the €10 without admitting any liability to pay it (after all, WR has not been met so the eventual outcome cannot be determined), could be made in order to get this account off the books. It could come with a condition that the closure would be upgraded to permanent due to the relationship between the parties having become soured, and of course the underlying risk that this could just be a borderline gambling problem as the player self excluded for a cooling off period, but due to the lack of data connectivity within the industry, could easily play elsewhere. Even at a sister site WITH data connectivity, a deposit and some play was possible under a self exclusion before the account was locked in accordance with the self exclusion.

If we are not going to be sympathetic to a player who has merely skimmed the terms, or not even bothered, we should be equally unsympathetic of companies who "skimp" on proper training of their CS staff and who then refuse to honour any agreements made outside of policy because of the incompetence or lack of training of their own sales and support agents.

If a regulated UK utility provider screws up in a similar manner, they have to make a statutory payment to the customer, regardless of any mitigating circumstances, even an "honest mistake" by a member of staff.

If anything, regulators are pushing for it to be much harder for players who self exclude at one site to then register and play at another. The ideal state would be an industry wide exclusion system that would lock any new account during the registration process, so that even the initial deposit couldn't be made. Operators who have been too lax have ended up being sued, sometimes successfully.

 

[quber]

Not true apparently. You may have seen my 1004x stake on Wild Rockets recently, Unibet paid me in 48 hours. I used the 6-month break to shut my Maria account about 2 months ago.

If you just ask for an account to be closed then you should be able to open an account at a sister casino, if you self exclude then the Casino has a legal requirement to not allow any account at any of their casinos, if an account is created then any winnings or losses are cancelled and the deposit returned.

If Tropicana50 was down to zero when the account was closed then he would be entitled to all the deposit back. As you can see there is a chance here for abusers to try and open second accounts with a typo in the name, or other details, and try and claim the deposit back if they lose.

If my name was John Smith and I used a second credit card that is already two details that can't be matched, DOB or address could have an 'Accidental' typo which makes three bits of info different from the original account.

I am in no way accusing Tropicana50 of trying this as he did ask CS first but was given the wrong info.

 

[chris87]

Probably just as well I didn't win anything on the Whitebet welcome bonus that I was told i could take even though I'd already taken one at Redbet. I kept a record of my conversation with CS-

Support Niklas:
Welcome to our LiveChat support. I'm happy to assist you in either English or Swedish.
13:36
Support Niklas:
Hi!

(I asked if I had an account at Whitebet, but this didn't copy over for some reason)

13:36
Support Niklas:
Sure I will have a look =)
13:36
:
thanks
13:37
Support Niklas:
No you only have one account at our sister site Redbet.
13:37
:
ok, can I join Whitebet therefore? And if so are there any welcome bonuses?
13:38
Support Niklas:
Yes you can join =) There is not any no deposit bonus I am afraid but we do not have a welcome bonus you may use. Code: wbwelcome40 will give you 100% up to €100 and 40 spins in the Wish Master slot
13:39
Support Niklas:
we do have I meant =)
13:39
:
ok thanks, what is the wagering required and maximum bet while the bonus is active?
13:40
Support Niklas:
Its 40x wagering on winnings from spins and the bonus money. Maximum bet is €5 and you can not play on table games like Black Jack or Roulette while wagering. You can play jackpot games like Mega Fortune, however that does not count towards the wagering.
13:41
:
so its bonus x 40 wagering?
13:41
Support Niklas:
Yes

 

[sigothx1]

If a regulated UK utility provider screws up in a similar manner, they have to make a statutory payment to the customer, regardless of any mitigating circumstances, even an "honest mistake" by a member of staff.

Let me just pitch in as someone who works for a uk regulated casino, the terms and conditions far out-weigh human error, the casino i work for would simply hide behind them no matter what a player has been told, they "might" as a good will gesture give the extra 10 euro in this players current problem, but id say 95% of the time they wouldn't, unless your classed as a vip or a "good player" in which case wed give you the 110 outright and apologize like you've never seen.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Let me just pitch in as someone who works for a uk regulated casino, the terms and conditions far out-weigh human error, the casino i work for would simply hide behind them no matter what a player has been told, they "might" as a good will gesture give the extra 10 euro in this players current problem, but id say 95% of the time they wouldn't, unless your classed as a vip or a "good player" in which case wed give you the 110 outright and apologize like you've never seen.

This is the usual starting point for any business, the legality only bothers a business if they feel the customer actually knows their rights and how to make life difficult for them. This is why so often a marathon 3 month battle with a utility suddenly gets resolved in a few seconds once it appears on BBC Watchdog, or a well respected newspaper help column.

Terms and conditions have to be obeyed by the business that wrote them, as well as the customer, and when it comes to selling, anything you are told by a representative of the company automatically becomes part of the terms and conditions for that sale, no matter what the business might think it has covered. This is why customers are told to get such agreements in writing, rather than trusting the sales rep to actually honour what they said. A chat log would count as "in writing", as would an email. A recorded phone conversation also counts, and companies often record all calls to their sales lines in case of a subsequent dispute over what was said.

Rogue casinos are well known for making promises over the phone, and then reneging once the deposit is in, and denying all knowledge of even the call, let alone the promises. CM advice is to end such a conversation by asking the agent to send you an email detailing what was said and agreed.

The big scandals involving the banks have arisen because they have used the attitude above to suppress having to make good for their mistakes, and eventually something breaks, and the truth gets out, and the regulators pounce. Many of the "mistakes" even turned out to be deliberate, designed to make illegitimate profits from knowingly selling dud and unsuitable products to customers in the hope that their customers were "too dumb to notice".

They were trying the scam on me for many years, long before the major PPI scandal broke. It was abundantly clear even to me that the product was completely useless to me, and would never pay out due to it's terms and conditions, but despite this, every bank and card provider tried to cajole me into signing up, only stopping once the regulator started mentioning the possibility that something was amiss.

Even Amazon pulled a stunt on me during this Christmas period, which I now have to unravel. They changed the way you get past the Prime signup when checking out, and there was no way forward that didn't end up with me becoming signed up for their "free trial", which is not so "free" if you forget about it as it doesn't simply expire, it auto converts into an annual subscription, and Amazon have a policy of always keeping your payment details so they can just take the money as they see fit (rather naughty, and I would be surprised if it's even legal under UK law).

 

[sigothx1]

This is the usual starting point for any business, the legality only bothers a business if they feel the customer actually knows their rights and how to make life difficult for them. This is why so often a marathon 3 month battle with a utility suddenly gets resolved in a few seconds once it appears on BBC Watchdog, or a well respected newspaper help column.

Terms and conditions have to be obeyed by the business that wrote them, as well as the customer, and when it comes to selling, anything you are told by a representative of the company automatically becomes part of the terms and conditions for that sale, no matter what the business might think it has covered. This is why customers are told to get such agreements in writing, rather than trusting the sales rep to actually honour what they said. A chat log would count as "in writing", as would an email. A recorded phone conversation also counts, and companies often record all calls to their sales lines in case of a subsequent dispute over what was said.

Rogue casinos are well known for making promises over the phone, and then reneging once the deposit is in, and denying all knowledge of even the call, let alone the promises. CM advice is to end such a conversation by asking the agent to send you an email detailing what was said and agreed.

The big scandals involving the banks have arisen because they have used the attitude above to suppress having to make good for their mistakes, and eventually something breaks, and the truth gets out, and the regulators pounce. Many of the "mistakes" even turned out to be deliberate, designed to make illegitimate profits from knowingly selling dud and unsuitable products to customers in the hope that their customers were "too dumb to notice".

They were trying the scam on me for many years, long before the major PPI scandal broke. It was abundantly clear even to me that the product was completely useless to me, and would never pay out due to it's terms and conditions, but despite this, every bank and card provider tried to cajole me into signing up, only stopping once the regulator started mentioning the possibility that something was amiss.

Even Amazon pulled a stunt on me during this Christmas period, which I now have to unravel. They changed the way you get past the Prime signup when checking out, and there was no way forward that didn't end up with me becoming signed up for their "free trial", which is not so "free" if you forget about it as it doesn't simply expire, it auto converts into an annual subscription, and Amazon have a policy of always keeping your payment details so they can just take the money as they see fit (rather naughty, and I would be surprised if it's even legal under UK law).

Everyone of our phone calls is recorded, And promptly deleted after 2 weeks, our email response time is 24 hours and is scripted, our live chat is, well, live chat and therefore could not be used as evidence imo. While i agree with you that an employee representing a company should be held accountable for what said employee has said, it just doesn't work like that. And that's mainly because the vast majority of people are not going to put hours into trying to get compensation or a resolution, the amount of times ive been told on the phone "im taking x to court over this" is laughable, ill give you a figure now, ive worked at this certain online casino for little over 5 months, ive seen thousands of players accounts both good and bad, in that time i have seen a total of 1 refund, 1. And that was to a player who we had just voided £36,000 worth of withdrawals, we refunded his £150 deposit and banned his account. Bare in mind i dont work for a casinomeister accredited casino, they had never been in a bbf, and i know full well they would never pass it, that said even at the most respected casinos, you have to account for human error.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Everyone of our phone calls is recorded, And promptly deleted after 2 weeks, our email response time is 24 hours and is scripted, our live chat is, well, live chat and therefore could not be used as evidence imo. While i agree with you that an employee representing a company should be held accountable for what said employee has said, it just doesn't work like that. And that's mainly because the vast majority of people are not going to put hours into trying to get compensation or a resolution, the amount of times ive been told on the phone "im taking x to court over this" is laughable, ill give you a figure now, ive worked at this certain online casino for little over 5 months, ive seen thousands of players accounts both good and bad, in that time i have seen a total of 1 refund, 1. And that was to a player who we had just voided £36,000 worth of withdrawals, we refunded his £150 deposit and banned his account. Bare in mind i dont work for a casinomeister accredited casino, they had never been in a bbf, and i know full well they would never pass it, that said even at the most respected casinos, you have to account for human error.

This is why many businesses feel they can get away with virtually anything, and why they often do. This is the main reason we have regulators, even though we have a perfectly good legal system that more or less does the same job, and would probably do an even better job when it comes to an individual getting redress as the last thing a company wants to see is a legal precedent being set against them in court. This is what the banks were so damn scared of in the initial scandal of bank charges. They held their ground, but as soon as the threats took the form of a court hearing summons landing on their desk they were willing to cave in to giving whatever it took to make the customer agree to settle out of court.

Casinos get away with it due to the patchy nature of regulation, which makes it much harder to take meaningful legal action, especially over smaller amounts.

It's the behaviour and "we can get away with it" attitude of the online casino industry that has caused the usually friendly UK to become so "hostile" a market that many have simply pulled out. The government succeeded in it's argument that the old regime where regulation of UK customer disputes took place offshore, and under a different legal system, did not provide a sufficient level of consumer protection. The government then saw this as an opportunity to tax the offshore based industry for the first time.

Those that remain in the UK may well find that what they are used to doing ends up falling foul of UK laws, more especially civil law as regards consumer rights.

 

[Tropicana50]

So, the live chat gave me this update last night:

00:21 Support Hjalmar: Welcome to our LiveChat support. I'm happy to assist you in either English or Swedish.
00:21 Support Hjalmar: Hello Tom, how may I help you? =)
00:21 Tom: Hey, can you update me regarding what is happening with my account/deposit etc?
00:21 Support Hjalmar: I will check!
00:23 Support Hjalmar: On the 29/Dec you choosed to self exclude your account for one month
00:23 Tom: Yes, I know all this.
00:24 Tom: Just want to know if the money is being sent back to my card or if the bonus is being left until the 29th?
00:24 Support Hjalmar: Your whitebet account will be reopened at the same time
00:24 Support Hjalmar: You can have your money sent back to your bank if you want but then you have to send in some documents. Otherwise you can wait.. Which bonus did you attend to use?
00:25 Tom: It was the welcome bonus, this morning Robin was checking the details regarding what was happening.
00:26 Support Hjalmar: ah okay, that bonus will still be active when your account is reopene
00:26 Support Hjalmar: reopened
00:26 Tom: Ok, and that bonus will not be voided?
00:26 Tom: As Robin was unsure if I was allowed to accept that welcome bonus as I had previously accepted it on RedBet.
00:27 Support Hjalmar: I see now that you will not be able to use that bonus anyway since you have use the welcome bonus at Redbet
00:27 Tom: Right.
00:28 Support Hjalmar: Okay so if you want to do a manual payout before the 29th, you have to send in a print screen of your bank account connected to your card and also a copy of your passport/ID. Send the documents to [email protected] and ask for a manual payout
00:29 Tom: Ok, and that will be a payout of the 50 I deposited?
00:29 Tom: Which part of the bank account do you need to see, im not sending all my transactions or my total balance or anything.
00:30 Tom: I can send in a front and back copy of the card and a drivers license, is this ok?
00:30 Support Hjalmar: No just so we can see your account number and full name. I can not promise you will get exactly the amount of 50 euro. The security department might charge a fee on the withdrawal but that decision will be taken from them
00:31 Tom: This is crazy!
00:31 Support Hjalmar: yes that is okay (with the drivers license)
00:31 Tom: Your support were the ones that told me to do all this and now your getting me to run around getting ID and charging fees.
00:31 Support Hjalmar: What did we tell you before you mean?
00:32 Tom: Before I joined here I came to the chat support and asked all of these questions to you.
00:32 Tom: I asked if I was allowed an account and explained I was on a break at RedBet
00:32 Tom: I told you that I had already taken a bonus at RedBet
00:32 Tom: Christoffer told me it was perfectly fine to open an account and take the bonus.
00:32 Support Hjalmar: Really??!
00:32 Tom: I did so, and now I have been given awful treatment.
00:32 Support Hjalmar: hmm okay..
00:33 Tom: Please review my recent chat logs with yourselves.
00:36 Support Hjalmar: Okay, so the best way I know to solve this now is that I will put a note on your account saying that you where incorrectly informed and that you should get the total amount that you deposited! But unfortunately you still need to send in the documents... I'm really sorry that you have been mislead like this. Christoffer is one of the newer support although that should be no excuse at all! But for you to know the reason why this has happened
00:38 Tom: Its pretty shocking treatment. Every stage I have been told no. I have been a long term loyal customer at RedBet for years and have spread word around for your casino.
00:38 Tom: To now be treated like this is somewhat shocking.
00:39 Tom: Are you happy with a copy of a drivers license and front/back of the card?
00:39 Tom: As I already have these documents so it is not much trouble to send them.
00:39 Support Hjalmar: Yes!
00:40 Tom: Ok, and can you guarantee im going to get 50 euros and not be charged a fee on this?
00:40 Support Hjalmar: Yes, I have put a note on your account so that the security department will not take any fee for the withdrawal
00:41 Tom: Ok, thanks. You have been much more helpful than the other support hosts.
00:41 Support Hjalmar: Thank you nice to hear!
00:42 Support Hjalmar: You didn't got anytime to play with the bonus right?
00:42 Tom: Yeah, I played for around an hour.
00:42 Support Hjalmar: okay
00:43 Tom: I never went low enough to hit the bonus amount though.
00:43 Tom: Pretty sure I stayed above 70 euros always.
00:44 Tom: And I was at around 110 just before it locked.
00:44 Support Hjalmar: Okay, everything looks fine. You now have 50 euro on your account that you will get back to your bank. So send the documents and the security department will handle the process.
00:44 Tom: Sent them a few moments ago.
00:45 Tom: Should be with you now.
00:46 Support Hjalmar: Which topic did you type for the mail?
00:46 Tom: verification Documents was the subject.
00:46 Support Hjalmar: Yes it is there
00:48 Support Hjalmar: Is there anything else I can help you with or something you are wondering about?
00:49 Tom: Will I receive an email once the withdrawal has been processed or should I check back to this chat tomorrow?
00:52 Support Hjalmar: You will receive an E-mail as soon as the security department has looked in to the matter. Since they handle all manual payouts I'm not exactly sure how the process is handled.
00:52 Tom: Ok, no problem. Thank you for you're help. They should just keep you on support and fire the other guys. Have a good evening.
00:54 Support Hjalmar: No problem Tom. Again I apologize for the misleading information you have been given. Haha yes I will see what I can do about that! Thank you and have a nice evening you too! =)
00:54 Tom: Bye for now!
00:54 Support Hjalmar: Bye!

And then today I receive this email:

Dear Mr. Starkie,

Thank you for your email.
We have now verified you and your Visa card!
However, please be informed that we also need the following in order to pay back the funds;
- A screenshot from your bank account showing your name and bank account number, or a copy of a bank statement/bank draft showing the equivalent. It also has to show your full IBAN, swift and bic details

We look forward to hear from you again, and we sincerely apologize for the inconvenience caused ..

Kind regards,
Maria

Whitebet Security Department

This is so crazy considering the circumstances. I am simply amazed at this group and cannot believe I played at RedBet for so long!

- T

 

[Tirilej]

Are you not verified at Redbet already?
They need to do something now to let everybody knows the rules and that whatever have been told from support earlier is no longer valid.
Not thinking just of this case now but Suomikala who got his winnings void. It's been too much.

I hope I don't get to see another thread about them again for awhile. I'm disappointed.

 

[Tropicana50]

Are you not verified at Redbet already?
They need to do something now to let everybody knows the rules and that whatever have been told from support earlier is no longer valid.
Not thinking just of this case now but Suomikala who got his winnings void. It's been too much.

I hope I don't get to see another thread about them again for awhile. I'm disappointed.

I have been verified at RedBet for years. This verification is for WhiteBet to get the 50 euros back out of the account which they duped me into depositing. If they charge a fee on it I am going to go full retard, I swear.

- T

 

[Tirilej]

I have been verified at RedBet for years. This verification is for WhiteBet to get the 50 euros back out of the account which they duped me into depositing. If they charge a fee on it I am going to go full retard, I swear.

- T

They could take the papers from Redbet to Whitebet. Hm..

Don't go self exclude the next time if you're not intend to stay away then. I normally just ask them to close my account, and that way I can open it whenever I want to.

 

[me_and_ed]

I have been verified at RedBet for years. This verification is for WhiteBet to get the 50 euros back out of the account which they duped me into depositing. If they charge a fee on it I am going to go full retard, I swear.

- T

Dont go full retard........

Check it out. Dustin Hoffman, 'Rain Man,' look retarded, act retarded, not retarded. Counted toothpicks, cheated cards. Autistic, sho'. Not retarded. You know Tom Hanks, 'Forrest Gump.' Slow, yes. Retarded, maybe. Braces on his legs. But he charmed the pants off Nixon and won a ping-pong competition. That ain't retarded. Peter Sellers, "Being There." Infantile, yes. Retarded, no. You went full retard, man. Never go full retard. You don't buy that? Ask Sean Penn, 2001, "I Am Sam." Remember? Went full retard, went home empty handed... one of the best movies ever

 

[Redbet-Adam]

You should have received another e-mail from the payments department now. You're unfortunately not verified on Redbet. Otherwise, as already stated, those documents would have been valid on Whitebet too. We just need you to simply confirm your details so we can payout the deposit.

And we will definitely not put a fee on this payout. I believe that's more or less standard for support agents to inform about when discussing manual payouts.

Again we can only apologise for the inconvenience and frustration caused by this mistake. If you need any further information or assistance just let me know.

 

[Redbet-Adam]

Many have been searching in the terms & conditions for this rule without success. If you guys can't find it it's obviously not clear enough.

All three brands together are referred to as "The gaming operator", and it's explained in the T&C's that the meaning of "The gaming operator" is the three brands together. We'll re-write the terms to make it clear.

 

[vinylweatherman]

You should have received another e-mail from the payments department now. You're unfortunately not verified on Redbet. Otherwise, as already stated, those documents would have been valid on Whitebet too. We just need you to simply confirm your details so we can payout the deposit.

And we will definitely not put a fee on this payout. I believe that's more or less standard for support agents to inform about when discussing manual payouts.

Again we can only apologise for the inconvenience and frustration caused by this mistake. If you need any further information or assistance just let me know.

I am curious as to why the player is being asked for a bank statement when this is a back-to-card payment? I have received such back-to-card payments before, and all that is needed is an ID document, utility bill, and copy of back and front of the card. Given that the whole saga started with incorrect advice from CS, compounding the problem further rather than simply correcting the error is bound to make the player "madder" than they already are over the issue.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Many have been searching in the terms & conditions for this rule without success. If you guys can't find it it's obviously not clear enough.

All three brands together are referred to as "The gaming operator", and it's explained in the T&C's that the meaning of "The gaming operator" is the three brands together. We'll re-write the terms to make it clear.

This should be made clear in the BONUS terms, as this is where new players will be looking for rules relating to the bonus. Cross marketing can also be part of the problem, and has been in other cases where operators have implemented such a rule. Affiliates also benefit from signing up a player at all three brands more than they do at one, so some are likely to leave out pertinent information in their reviews that might deter captured traffic from coming back to their other site to sign up at the other two.

I have found the current version:-

1.1 Bonnier Gaming Malta Ltd, company registration number C 38582, 85 St John Street, Valletta, Malta (the “Gaming Operator”) provides games at the web-site www.redbet.com (the “Site”) and it is one of the companies included in the Albert Bonnier AB group of companies (herein jointly referred to as the “Bonnier Group”). The Gaming Operator offer games on multiple brands, including, but not limited to, www.Redbet.com, www.Whitebet.com and www.Heypoker.com. The Terms of Use are applicable in relation to the use of the Site only and not in relation to use of any other sites provided by the Gaming Operator or any other entity within the Bonnier Group.

It's probably getting missed as it's more the "glossary", rather than the actual terms, defining the legal meaning of the various terms. It's also worded to hedge bets, for example using "including, but not limited to", rather than saying "these three brands (are connected as far as the terms are concerned). The "not limited to" also means that players cannot be clear from this alone that the bonus provisions apply ONLY to these three, and they don't have to watch their backs at other sites that have not been named in case they get stung.

Although 1.3 is the start of terms that are relevant to the player, such as minimum age, legal jurisdiction, etc, it is written in verbose legalese, not concise plain English, which encourages many players to skim or skip further down to terms that look like they actually mean something to the average user (who does not have to worry about the scope of software licenses, whether or not they can reverse engineer, store in a retrieval system, or supply all or in part for some other purpose.... etc) as they don't even know what most of it means, let alone are thinking of doing it and just checking whether it's allowed.

Under bonuses, the section 7.3 seems to mislead players:-

7.3 Any bonuses and/or freespins may only be used on a single occasion per Player’s Account. It is not allowed in any way for a Player to use another Player’s Account in order to circumvent this restriction and gain more than one bonus/freespin. Any bonuses and/or freespins can only be used once by each household, family, address, e-mail address, IP-address and Player’s Accounts which are used from computers in public environments (such as schools, workplaces and libraries). In addition, the Gaming Operator reserves the right to Close any Player’s Account and seize any existing funds if the Gaming Operator suspects that any kind of abuse, fraud or other undue usage of the Player’s Account occurs.

Well, if it's once "per player account", then it means that players CAN use the same bonus once in Redbet, once in Whitebet, and once again in HeyPoker, as these are all legitimately registered player accounts for said player. This needs rewording to reflect that usage is once "per person across all three brands", rather than "per player account".

An alternative would be to have players use a single "player account" across all three brands.

 

[Redbet-Adam]

I am curious as to why the player is being asked for a bank statement when this is a back-to-card payment? I have received such back-to-card payments before, and all that is needed is an ID document, utility bill, and copy of back and front of the card. Given that the whole saga started with incorrect advice from CS, compounding the problem further rather than simply correcting the error is bound to make the player "madder" than they already are over the issue.

The payment solution we use do not allow us to manually insert the credit card number for manual payouts. The option is a bank to bank payment.

 

[vinylweatherman]

The payment solution we use do not allow us to manually insert the credit card number for manual payouts. The option is a bank to bank payment.

I see. I don't think the player realised that they were getting a bank transfer, rather than payment back to their card.

 

[Tropicana50]

Still no resolution from WhiteBet, I have now sent them copies of my drivers license, the front and back of my card I deposited with, a screenshot of my full financial details including all bank accounts and they now request details that are not available on my online banking.

It seems as though this company is going out of its way to be as impossible as they can. I would really appreciate it if some users could provide the best route to escalate this matter to their licensing body.

- T

 

[Redbet-Adam]

Still no resolution from WhiteBet, I have now sent them copies of my drivers license, the front and back of my card I deposited with, a screenshot of my full financial details including all bank accounts and they now request details that are not available on my online banking.

It seems as though this company is going out of its way to be as impossible as they can. I would really appreciate it if some users could provide the best route to escalate this matter to their licensing body.

- T

We have a European bank and can't make a transfer to a UK bank account number. All you have to do is reply to the e-mails with your IBAN and SWIFT/BIC and it's done.

Or just send it in a PM to me.

Alex

 

[Tropicana50]

We have a European bank and can't make a bank transfer to a UK bank account number. Simple as that. All you have to do is reply to the e-mails with your IBAN and SWIFT/BIC and it's done.

Or just send it in a PM to me.

Alex

If I could find those details I would send them. The problem is they are not on my online banking page. How can I send a screenshot of something that does not exist?

-T

 

[Redbet-Adam]

If I could find those details I would send them. The problem is they are not on my online banking page. How can I send a screenshot of something that does not exist?

-T

We don't need a screenshot. We just need it in text. PM here or by e-mail. Ask your bank and they'll be able to provide it for you. If they hide it from their customers I'm sure they have to answer these questions on a daily basis.

Alex

 

[Brockie]

If I could find those details I would send them. The problem is they are not on my online banking page. How can I send a screenshot of something that does not exist?

-T

From what I remember on my bank account you can request your IBAN number, it should be somewhere near your account number, well it is on my online bank.

 

[Tropicana50]

Just spoken with Whitebet on the phone and they have successfully refunded my payment to my credit card. Thanks for sorting me out Maria. Finally.

Accounts closed at Whitebet and Redbet permanently.

- T

 

[vinylweatherman]

I have noticed this too. These numbers do not always show on statements, particularly online ones. They are also not used within the UK, so the majority of customers will never need this information, nor notice it is absent. On one of my online statements, it's shown under a "click here to reveal" marker, rather than written.

Where you might find it though is on a downloadable statement (not the transactions, but the actual statement, usually a PDF of what would be posted out).


Looking at one of my paper statements, I can see that the IBAN consists of 22 characters. The last 8 are my account number, and the 6 before that are the sort code. Before this there are 8 characters, both letters and numbers. The BIC is another 11 characters, with none of them seeming to relate to the internal UK account numbers. I thought the sort code identified the branch in any case, so it's puzzling that a BIC is needed in addition to the IBAN considering that both sort code and account number are encoded there, thus identifying the branch as well as the account number.

Of the number and letter codes, I see "GB" which is presumably identifying the country, plus the first 4 letters of the name of the parent bank as it was presumably when the codes were issued (it has since merged with other banks, and no longer exists as it's former entity).

I have noticed that this information is more readily available than it used to be, so perhaps banks have been receiving so many queries that some have decided to include the information on statements. The online screen is really a list of transactions, plus tools for online banking, which is probably why such fixed information is not shown on screen by default.

One problem faced by UK customers has been that when asking for such information, the call centre staff may not have this readily to hand, and may try to bluff their way through the query, offering such gems as "we don't have one", or stating that "it's the same as the sort code and account number", all of which leave the customer with the wrong information, which they will then insist is right because their bank said so when they are told this is not was is needed by the entity trying to effect payment.

 

[daenyboi]

Just spoken with Whitebet on the phone and they have successfully refunded my payment to my credit card. Thanks for sorting me out Maria. Finally.

Accounts closed at Whitebet and Redbet permanently.

- T

I permanently closed my account with them to after depositing a couple of 100 euros, that is Whitebet i mean. I can find WMS slots elsewhere if i need to play them.

But reading all this i just laughed.

 

[Cleveland]

*sigh* smdh!