What is this? UFO, other?

[just play]

Ask him if something is infinite, how can it be getting bigger?

I looked it up after he told me, (sometimes he hears things wrong, hehe) scientists use those exact words together. Let me find it....it was my first click on google, didn't read anymore cuz tonight is our favorite night for tv...haha. More tomorrow.

ESA: Is the Universe finite or infinite?

Joseph Silk: We don't know. The expanding Universe theory says that the Universe could expand forever [that corresponds to a 'flat' Universe]. And that is probably the model of the Universe that we feel closest to now. But it could also be finite, because it could be that the Universe has a very large volume now, but finite, and that that volume will increase, so only in the infinite future will it actually be infinite.

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[skiny]

I looked it up after he told me, (sometimes he hears things wrong, hehe) scientists use those exact words together. Let me find it....it was my first click on google, didn't read anymore cuz tonight is our favorite night for tv...haha. More tomorrow.

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Well, when I say universe I mean OUR universe.

Less than one second after the big bang the universe had a specific size. It has been expanding at an increasing rate of speed for a specific amount of time. Regardless of how fast the universe is expanding these three variables are still specific numbers and when you have a formula that doesn't contain infinity the answer cannot be infinity.

We can only guess what lies beyond our universe but the fact that something must lie beyond our universe in itself means that our universe is not infinite. There could be other universes expanding, colliding, enveloping each other, dissipating, this process could have happened many, many times and could be happening in many different "places" at the same time. If this is true then you could say that the omniverse is infinite and the universes within it are not.

 

[just play]

An infinite universe is in some ways easier to imagine than a finite one. Since the universe is supposed to be everything that exists, it seems intuitive that it should go on forever. Of course an infinite universe is impossible to picture, but we can get at what it means by saying that no matter how far you go there will always be more space and galaxies. It is hard, however, to reconcile this picture with the idea that the universe is expanding. If it's already infinite, how can it expand?

To see how, remember that by expansion we mean that the distance between galaxies is increasing. Suppose right now there is a galaxy every million light years or so. After a long enough time this infinite grid of galaxies will stretch out so that there is a galaxy every two million light years. The total size of the universe hasn't changed—it's still infinite—but the volume of space containing any particular group of galaxies has grown because the separation between the galaxies is now larger.5

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just another quick google search


Skiny what do you think about a pre-big bang?

 

[skiny]

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just another quick google search


Skiny what do you think about a pre-big bang?

Ok, I read through that page and it seems bits and pieces of it are right, semi-right and some of it is wrong. I'm not going to pick it to pieces but the biggest mistake I see is this statement

We know from general relativity that expansion of the universe is slowed down by the mutual gravity of all the matter inside it. Whether or not the expansion will continue forever depends on whether or not there is enough matter in the universe to reverse it. If the density of matter in the universe is less than a certain critical value, then the universe will never stop expanding. If, on the other hand, the density of matter is greater than the critical value, then the pull of gravity will eventually be strong enough to stop the expansion and the universe will begin contracting.

The universe is expanding at an increasing rate. It is definitely not slowing down by any means. Gravity should have slowed it down and reversed it long ago but apparently dark energy is to blame for the increased rate if expansion. (Not to be confused with dark matter.) I haven't really spent much time looking at dark energy. (As if you can see it.) But that's the current theory as far as I know.

As for pre-big bang, nobody really knows. We're still just learning about what happened after the big bang. There are some formulas that are far beyond me that apparently bring the total energy in the universe back to zero. There is also some weird stuff going on inside atoms called virtual particles which pop in an out of existence constantly. Electrons seem vanish and come back and sometimes seem to be in more than one place at a time. This is what you have to deal with when you work with or study quantum mechanics. We really don't know why these things do the things they do. I remember reading that at the time of the big bang there were countless particles and anti-particles all colliding and annihilating each other upon contact and in the end for reasons that nobody seems to know there were more particles than anti-particles so those were left over. I honestly don't understand it but according to physics when you have a true void meaning that there is nothing something HAS to happen. I think that's where the virtual particles come from but again, I'm out of my league by a long shot when it gets to this level of discussion.

As for the omniverse - I was thinking about that today because that's where I left the discussion. I was just trying to get a grasp on what that might be like as a whole. If there is an "omniverse" which does kind of make sense and you could shrink it down so that all the universes and all the empty space between them could fit in your view. You would of course end up with glittery patches where universes were, each tiny lit up speck being an entire galaxy and maybe some bright specks where new universes were just starting after their big bang and maybe some universes all spread out and dimming. And then imagine you could speed up time so that billions and billions and billions of years would pass in a single second.

I'm wondering if it would be like watching a fireworks show.

 

[skiny]

I was going to write quite a few paragraphs about all of this, but really skiny has pretty much summed up what I was going to say.

Skiny...you have some very valid and logical points.

Sorry, I tend to get a little chatty when it comes to this stuff.

Most of the time I have to cut myself off because I'll just keep rambling for so long that nobody will want to read it. lol

 

[Tirilej]

I actually believe that many of us do want to read it. You have a way of explaining things so even I can understand, and that means a lot to me. I never search for these kinds of knowledge so what you are giving I just take in for free

Please keep rambling a little more. It's interesting

 

[just play]

Very interesting Skiny, I have to chuckle a bit when you say these accomplished men and women are wrong.

Ok, another question...what about "big bangs" all over the universe? My husband mentioned that, but I forgot to add it in. He heard/read that there may have been multiple big bangs in different galaxies. Meaning we aren't the only ones who had a big bang.

 

[richie]

Definately not a Chinese lantern or a weather balloon.

 

[KasinoKing]

Except the universe isn't infinite.... Unless you believe in the infinite universes theory, then yes, everything possible exists.

If the Universe is not infinite... what's outside it?

KK

 

[dionysus]

Who says there has to be anything outside it?

 

[skiny]

I actually believe that many of us do want to read it. You have a way of explaining things so even I can understand, and that means a lot to me. I never search for these kinds of knowledge so what you are giving I just take in for free

Please keep rambling a little more. It's interesting

Well, I enjoy it because it lets me go back and rethink a lot of things that I'd left behind and sometimes when I'm not sure about something I don't want to say it without checking first and I end up learning new things in the process.

Very interesting Skiny, I have to chuckle a bit when you say these accomplished men and women are wrong.

Ok, another question...what about "big bangs" all over the universe? My husband mentioned that, but I forgot to add it in. He heard/read that there may have been multiple big bangs in different galaxies. Meaning we aren't the only ones who had a big bang.

I think I covered that when I said it might be like a fireworks show slowed down to a billion, billion, billion years per second. lol

But that would be all over an "omniverse" since it would contain more than one "universe."

If the Universe is not infinite... what's outside it?

KK

We have absolutely no way of knowing. We can't even see to the edge of this one but if I had to hazard a guess it would be nothing and then something and then nothing and then something.

It actually is a little mind boggling but imagine you had an infinite amount of nothing. That seems to be kind of a contradiction since nothing is nothing so it can't actually be quantified. The more I think about it now I'm wondering if you can mathematically say you have a specific amount of nothing....

Anyway - Imagine nothing goes on forever in every possible direction. Now if quantum theory is correct when you have an absolute void something has to happen. I'm not sure why because I'm not a quantum theorist. I can't find the quote now but I think it was Lawrence Krauss that said something like "With enough empty space and enough virtual particles nothing has to be doing something." That's probably not an exact quote but I think it's close.

So somewhere in that endless nothing, the nothing does something and that something expands. (Big bang.) Since the nothing is infinite there's no reason that the same thing can't happen somewhere else. In fact if it happened here it probably has to happen many times. Maybe even billions of times. That would be billions of big bangs and billions of universes spread out over an infinite amount of nothing. That would be an omniverse.

 

[skiny]

Who says there has to be anything outside it?

I do!

 

[dionysus]

Fair enough
However you not being the foremost authority in the subject, im not going to just take that on faith

 

[skiny]

Fair enough
However you not being the foremost authority in the subject, im not going to just take that on faith

Can there be an authority on something that's impossible to know?

 

[dionysus]

Probably not. I guess thats why anyones opinion or guess is as valid as anyone elses

 

[richie]

I heard an off the wall theory from a computer programmer, who believed that when you break down graphics to their smallest element they look a bit like electrons. He was saying in the future computer programmes/games will be so advanced that animals/plants etc will have AI to think for themselves & even have cells. Anyway to cut this post short he has a theory that our universe is actually a very advanced computer programme/game, & we are all graphics/AI in a very complex programme. I don't know if I believe this, just found it interesting. It also raises the question, who created that programme?

 

[LaHutti]

Wow...now that gives me the image of a young guy, greasy hair, ... way too much coca cola and pizza, and square eyes.
He needs to get out more imo

I heard an off the wall theory from a computer programmer, who believed that when you break down graphics to their smallest element they look a bit like electrons. He was saying in the future computer programmes/games will be so advanced that animals/plants etc will have AI to think for themselves & even have cells. Anyway to cut this post short he has a theory that our universe is actually a very advanced computer programme/game, & we are all graphics/AI in a very complex programme. I don't know if I believe this, just found it interesting. It also raises the question, who created that programme?

 

[skiny]

I heard an off the wall theory from a computer programmer, who believed that when you break down graphics to their smallest element they look a bit like electrons. He was saying in the future computer programmes/games will be so advanced that animals/plants etc will have AI to think for themselves & even have cells. Anyway to cut this post short he has a theory that our universe is actually a very advanced computer programme/game, & we are all graphics/AI in a very complex programme. I don't know if I believe this, just found it interesting. It also raises the question, who created that programme?

I wonder if he knows you can't see electrons.

 

[richie]

I wonder if he knows you can't see electrons.

Well that kinda kills his theory, lol

 

[richie]

Although interestingly I did a bit of research via Google & discovered this idea of the universe being a computer simulation is taken seriously by some scientists. We don't see what is within a pixel for example, yet something is there to display it. Algorithm, code (I'm no expert at physics or computers.) You can't see electrons yet we know they're there and they also have the peculiar quality according to quantum theory of being sometimes in two places at once. A computer code/ algorithm can do the same. & two identical pixels can be in many places at once. The theory goes that we could all be part of a very advanced computer simulation probably within another simulation. Because the laws of physics are so exact this implies the possibility these rules were programmed into the code.

Not saying I believe this or fully understand it, but it is an interesting idea.

Here are a couple of links about it:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/10/11/physicists-may-haveevide_n_1957777.html

http://www.bottomlayer.com/bottom/argument/Argument4.html

I kind of dozed off while reading the second article, it is very long & difficult to get your head round.

 

[KasinoKing]

Anyway to cut this post short he has a theory that our universe is actually a very advanced computer programme/game, & we are all graphics/AI in a very complex programme. I don't know if I believe this, just found it interesting. It also raises the question, who created that programme?

Had he just been watching The Matrix by any chance... ?

KK

 

[skiny]

Although interestingly I did a bit of research via Google & discovered this idea of the universe being a computer simulation is taken seriously by some scientists. We don't see what is within a pixel for example, yet something is there to display it. Algorithm, code (I'm no expert at physics or computers.) You can't see electrons yet we know they're there and they also have the peculiar quality according to quantum theory of being sometimes in two places at once. A computer code/ algorithm can do the same. & two identical pixels can be in many places at once. The theory goes that we could all be part of a very advanced computer simulation probably within another simulation. Because the laws of physics are so exact this implies the possibility these rules were programmed into the code.

Not saying I believe this or fully understand it, but it is an interesting idea.

Here are a couple of links about it:

Outdated URL (Invalid)

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I kind of dozed off while reading the second article, it is very long & difficult to get your head round.

I've never heard of the computer progam theory except in a few science fiction movies.

I have heard of the hologram theory although I wasn't really interested enough to look into it.

People have a lot of weird ideas which makes for good science fiction but that's about it.

Had he just been watching The Matrix by any chance... ?

KK

Cafe' comes to mind as well.

 

[swampwitch]

I believe I can clear all this up.

The universe consists of quadrants..Alpha, Beta, Gamma, and Delta.

We live in the Alpha Quadrant.

The Gamma Quadrant is ruled by shapeshifters who all live together in a gelatinous goo.

The Delta Quadrant is where the bug-eyed aliens took Amelia Earhart.

Not much is known about the Beta Quadrant, but I have it on good authority that's where the space whales live. They'll be here in about 200 years or so.

Also, the Roswell aliens were 3 Ferengi and a Changeling.

I would say more, but I'm muzzled by the Temporal Prime Directive.

Matrix? That's just silly.

 

[richie]

Awww & I was kinda looking forward to being able to dodge bullets, jump high buildings & be a kungfu master... gutted.

 

[just play]

Just saw this, thought it was interesting.....

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[skiny]

Just saw this, thought it was interesting.....

The discovery of huge amounts of water ice and possible organic compounds on the heat-blasted planet Mercury suggests that the raw materials necessary for life as we know it may be common throughout the solar system, researchers say.

The raw materials necessary for life as we know it ARE some of the most common elements in the universe.

Hydrogen, carbon, oxygen, nitrogen... The stuff is everywhere.

I think the chances are a lot better if the planet is warm. If not the entire planet, maybe one with some volcanic activity. That would produce some nice hot spots. Warm and wet. That's what they need to find.

Looking at our planet, cold and dry areas aren't completely devoid of live but where it's warm and wet it's always bustling with it.

 

[just play]

Love reading your replies Skiny.

Boring Saturday, thought maybe this could strike up another interesting conversation.

"And so Mercury is becoming an object of astrobiological interest, where it wasn't much of one before," Solomon added. "That's not say to say that we expect to find any lifeforms — I don't think anybody on this table does — but in terms of the book of life, there are some early chapters, and Mercury may indeed inform us about what's in those chapters."

I thought this was most interesting. (Wow, I really use the word "interesting" a lot, hahaha)

 

[skiny]

Love reading your replies Skiny.

Boring Saturday, thought maybe this could strike up another interesting conversation.





I thought this was most interesting. (Wow, I really use the word "interesting" a lot, hahaha)

We can control where we look for life. We can't control when.

The earliest stages of life could have been on this planet for billions of years and we wouldn't have seen it from space. The process is so incredibly long that life could well be trying to get a foothold on a thousand "nearby" planets but this one could be long gone before it even becomes recognizable as life.

The problem with finding life on other planets is that you're not just looking for the tiniest of needles in the biggest of haystacks but you're looking for a needle in a haystack which just happens to be a another needle in another haystack. We exist in time and space and any other life that may exist could exist anywhere in time and anywhere in space.

Cataclysmic changes to Earth and Mars could well have life on Mars sending probes to Earth 2 or 3 billion years from now suggesting that life could well have existed on Earth. In about a billion years the sun will have become too hot for liquid water to exist on Earth and Martians could be making the same statements as we do now. "There are signs that liquid water once existed on Earth and where there's liquid water, there's usually life."

And a few billion years after that looking for life in this solar system at all will probably be a waste of time as conditions take a rather uncomfortable turn and the sun enters a red giant stage, swelling up to about 250 times it's current size and then collapsing into a white dwarf.

Everything has a start and a finish. Every insect, every planet, every solar system, every galaxy and even the universe itself. Roughly 5 billion years after life first started on this planet, the planet will simply no longer be inhabitable. And in our entire lives if we're lucky we get to witness about 1/50,000,000ths of it. How insignificant is that?

 

[kauphy]

Oh no please don't make this conversation about god!!! I thought this was about aliens/ufos?

I don't believe in god.

Here's a quote (yes, he's a non-believer as well)



~Ricky Gervais‏~
Isn't it weird that God made a universe that perfectly coincided with the extent of the knowledge of the people who wrote the Bible.

well i do and i don,t think this thread is going that way. it is a very good and interesting thread.

alot of people with diffdent views i,m talking yours too. so let the talks go on

 

[just play]

well i do and i don,t think this thread is going that way. it is a very good and interesting thread.

alot of people with diffdent views i,m talking yours too. so let the talks go on

It was a link he posted, he didn't write it. You would have had to read that specific link.

 

[just play]

And in our entire lives if we're lucky we get to witness about 1/50,000,000ths of it. How insignificant is that

No idea, haha. I just like reading this thread.

I love reading thoughts of different people from around the world, it makes my brain happy.

 

[Nifty29]

I think UFOs are just God dropping smarties on the floor as he watches family guy.

 

[P.V.]

Is there Life on Mars? Breaking news Monday about something!

Now, NASA has stirred up some new excitement. They will soon go public with something the rover Curiosity has discovered on Mars. Jeffrey Kluger, science editor for Time magazine spoke to Anthony Mason and Rebecca Jarvis about the upcoming Martian announcement. Could it be little green men?

The announcement will be on Monday.

Article/video link:

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[skiny]

Now, NASA has stirred up some new excitement. They will soon go public with something the rover Curiosity has discovered on Mars. Jeffrey Kluger, science editor for Time magazine spoke to Anthony Mason and Rebecca Jarvis about the upcoming Martian announcement. Could it be little green men?

The announcement will be on Monday.

Article/video link:

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Maybe they found parking meters on Mars and the one thing the rover didn't come equipped with is a handful of dimes and quarters.

 

[universal4]

So I guess they will have to tow the rover then huh?

Or do the Martian's just boot the vehicles?

 

[P.V.]

Mars Update

Maybe they found parking meters on Mars and the one thing the rover didn't come equipped with is a handful of dimes and quarters.

No parking meters yet. This is what they've found so far..

2:57PM EST December 3. 2012 - No Martians have been found, but scientists controlling NASA's Curiosity rover reported Monday that its first soil sample from Mars contains tantalizing but unproven hints of chemicals essential to life.

Todays news:

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