Weak Bonus Wins After Good Bonus Wins

X-Raided

Keep It Simple, Stupid.
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Aug 24, 2010
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Your Happy Place
Has anyone noticed the following at your favorite online casino?

I have been noticing this ever since I started playing online
casinos. If I get a good bonus win/bonus spins
and manage to get another bonus round/bonus spins 2 or
3 hits after the first initial one, they are very very minuscule
and suck compared to the first one.

Wait a minute, if slots are truly random as stated, then
why does this happen?

Anyone else notice this or am I the only one?
 

Miss_Token

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Location
en el fin del mundo...
Has anyone noticed the following at your favorite online casino?

I have been noticing this ever since I started playing online
casinos. If I get a good bonus win/bonus spins
and manage to get another bonus round/bonus spins 2 or
3 hits after the first initial one, they are very very minuscule
and suck compared to the first one.

Wait a minute, if slots are truly random as stated, then
why does this happen?

Anyone else notice this or am I the only one?

I had the same feeling. When i get a GOOD bonus round, and then a light appears at the sky and give me another one (lol) i always think: "this one is gonna suck" and always does.
But it just a "feel", like when you higher your bets and suddenly the slot stop the winnings, or when you are close to complete a playtrough and again the machine converts itself in a devil. I have nothing to probe that.

I really dont think slot are pure random.
 

Nate

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
webmeister
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Has anyone noticed the following at your favorite online casino?

I have been noticing this ever since I started playing online
casinos. If I get a good bonus win/bonus spins
and manage to get another bonus round/bonus spins 2 or
3 hits after the first initial one, they are very very minuscule
and suck compared to the first one.

Wait a minute, if slots are truly random as stated, then
why does this happen?

Anyone else notice this or am I the only one?

I've mentioned before... Slots are random within a cycle. You receive random hits within a particular cycle and not just any hit randomly...

So if the top award is 100 coins it will pay once... other variations of it will pay , but not the same one - unless in a new cycle.

Nate
 

skiny

Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Location
Canada
The problem isn't the next bonus feature. It's not going broke before the next bonus feature.

Lately at Microgaming I'm averaging well over 80%, sometimes almost 90% of my spins hitting zero. That's not a guess, I checked my history and that's over 1000s of spins.

I can get a half decent bonus feature once in a while but most of the time even the free spins hit zero too.

I think all gaming softwares are just getting too greedy now. The good runs are few and far between and most bonus features crap out. I have had a few good bonus features, 2 retriggers in Avalon paid really well (over 55 dollars on a 20 cent spin.) but then I hit zero 650 of my next 800 spins so it wasn't long eating that win up. I low rolled 75 dollars to zero on 1 and 2 coin bets over the next 1000 spins. Took about an hour.
 

pokerdan

Senior Member
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Location
LA
I too have noticed this same thing depending on what software I am using. It is especially apparent on microgaming. The truth of the matter as far as what I know from B&M casino's, is that if you win big on a machine it is time to change games. Most slot machines will not keep paying out big wins for a while after they just paid out a big bonus game. I read this from an article written concerning IGT slot machines. Of course online, we have no way to know how many people are playing the game we are playing unless your playing on 3dice. Anyways, there is no actual way to no know exactly how most online casino's slot machines work, but if there anything like Live casino's, which we have to infer that they are, I would recommend switching machines more often than not. But I too, stay at the same game way longer than I probably should LOL
 

catapultaudio

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Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Location
Leeds, UK
Some seriously bad advice in this thread.. these are not fruit machines you are playing and switching games after a big win won't make you any more (or less) likely to hit another big win in your next feature.

Are you actually suggesting you have NEVER had two good features in a row..? What's everybody elses take on that? The simple math of the situation is that a high paying bonus round is much less likely than a poor paying one, therefore if most bonus rounds are going to pay low-to-average, its completely logical that if the game is random you are less likely to see two high paying ones back to back, and lets not forget that the big win may well alter your perception in the short term of what a decent payout is ... a 100x bet feature might not seem so impressive if the one before just got you 1200x bet, whereas on a different day the 100x win might seem okay.

I know we all like a good conspiracy theory here but if you always did get great features in pairs, wouldn't that just prove that it is NOT infact random...? I for one have had runs of incredible features on Playboy, TS2, Break da Bank Again on microgaming and Great Blue on playtech will sometimes throw the feature five times in 50 spins, paying a decent amount every time, then another day no feature in 1000+ spins and when you do get it it pays 20x bet ... because its RANDOM, and anything can happen at any time.

If you honestly have never seen two great features back to back, I guarantee you will if you keep playing :)

EDIT: Heres some pictures from a Playboy session around six months ago, where almost every feature was paying heavily... turned a small deposit into over £600, so I'm not just speculating !

playboy-all.jpg
 

mattsgame

Meister Member
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Location
Out Of Town
Some seriously bad advice in this thread.. these are not fruit machines you are playing and switching games after a big win won't make you any more (or less) likely to hit another big win in your next feature.

Are you actually suggesting you have NEVER had two good features in a row..? What's everybody elses take on that? The simple math of the situation is that a high paying bonus round is much less likely than a poor paying one, therefore if most bonus rounds are going to pay low-to-average, its completely logical that if the game is random you are less likely to see two high paying ones back to back, and lets not forget that the big win may well alter your perception in the short term of what a decent payout is ... a 100x bet feature might not seem so impressive if the one before just got you 1200x bet, whereas on a different day the 100x win might seem okay.

I know we all like a good conspiracy theory here but if you always did get great features in pairs, wouldn't that just prove that it is NOT infact random...? I for one have had runs of incredible features on Playboy, TS2, Break da Bank Again on microgaming and Great Blue on playtech will sometimes throw the feature five times in 50 spins, paying a decent amount every time, then another day no feature in 1000+ spins and when you do get it it pays 20x bet ... because its RANDOM, and anything can happen at any time.

If you honestly have never seen two great features back to back, I guarantee you will if you keep playing :)

EDIT: Heres some pictures from a Playboy session around six months ago, where almost every feature was paying heavily... turned a small deposit into over £600, so I'm not just speculating !


Just a heads up, this thread is over 4 years old. Not that they are not some nice screenshots :thumbsup:
 

catapultaudio

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Location
Leeds, UK
How crazy is that, I normally only pull threads up from the latest activity page.. wonder if it was in the related topics bit at the bottom maybe?? ... OOOPS anyway !!
 

whodatrec

Banned User - multiple accounts
Joined
Aug 19, 2012
Location
Norway
I've mentioned before... Slots are random within a cycle. You receive random hits within a particular cycle and not just any hit randomly...

So if the top award is 100 coins it will pay once... other variations of it will pay , but not the same one - unless in a new cycle.

Nate

So i guess my tinfoil hat theory holds water? This is what i mean when i say i dont belive its totally random.
 

catapultaudio

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Location
Leeds, UK
Its interesting to note that this topic is just as furiously debated today as it was four years ago - whodatrec I often see your posts on the subject, and I keep reading such posts in the hope that one day somebody is going to provide some truly compelling evidence to back up their suspicions, but so far, as far as I know at least, it's just not happened.

What I would say with regards Nates comment is that I do find it fascinating how streaky online slots can be, for me good wins do always seem to come in sessions, although could these streaks - good or bad - just be self fulfilling? What I mean is, if you hit a big win early on in your session its likely to last a lot longer and hence you have a better chance of seeing further good wins, whereas if your bankroll is full on raped immediately, you might not have the bankroll - or the desire - to keep on playing.
 

whodatrec

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Location
Norway
If slots are designed to work in cycles, you could still hit win after win. But that would explain the streaks and odd things that players see. As i said before and as i just hit 10000 x bet on DOA today it is still possible to win. But i believe slots are not random in the sense that the 5 stops on the reels are randomly chosen. It works in some other way.

Features and bonus rounds is a good example on this. They seam to be pre determined. One example is Ruby slippers. When playing this on Maria casino i could notice my balance updating before the feature was completed.

And allot of the times especially on that particular slot you will get exact x bet wins. fore example exactly 100 x bet, 10 x bet , 500 x bet and so on. As if the RNG just picks a number(win/loss) not reel outcomes.

Dead or alive also is a good example. You can pretty much spot right away if you are going to hit a wildline or not after 3-4 spins.

But i dont understand why people cant see that slot design has changed and gotten more volatile? Go to the screenshots section of the forum and see how many big wins on the newer slots across all software platforms there is.... Not many... The biggest wins are from the older slots mostly.

And if slots cycle that would explain the cashout curse... I am going to wait a few days/weeks before i play again now and see if i get a stone cold session or a regular losing/winning one.

But its still gambling and you have to expect to lose on all games in the long run but seams the odds of winning are better on certain slots.

And i truly belive that all casinos do not have the same RTP% on the same games. As the example with WMS slots on jackpot party. Certain casinos i have never ever won anything at. But funny thing is i have cashed out several times from every major brand.
So i chose to play where i know i can win sometimes and not only lose...

And yes everyone argues that its the gamblers fallacy, but streaks do happen good or bad ones as if its in cycles..
 

dunover

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If Nate's POV is correct then he is saying the slots aren't truly random - he's saying that instead of picking results randomly from a fluid pool of wins possible (i.e. pick a result out of the hundreds of thousands representing reel outcomes @95% TRTP, then it goes back in the pool and another random selection is taken next spin and so-on) the pool sometimes has parameters/is managed. This would mean it is therefore semi-compensated/not totally random.
As for big bonus rounds - get some perspective people! How often do you get a bonus of over 100x stake anyway? The exception rather than the rule, yeah? So if you get one, why look so surprised that this exceptional result is not repeated next bonus? As Catapult pointed out, sometimes it does happen but seldom.
Even adding to that, the chances are a large bonus result has skewed your temporary RTP up over the line by a long way, and more often than not the likelihood is that it will come down, as you would expect on the curves determined by variance. The only exception I'd say is a pooled jackpot, which is separate from the game you are playing and therefore would not skew the normal game's RTP.

Another order going in to Alcan tonight.....
 

whodatrec

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Location
Norway
"instead of picking results randomly from a fluid pool of wins possible"

Is this how slots work? They dont pick random reel positions? It picks possible winning/losing outcomes? Why cant someone from NetEnt,MG or WMS come on the forum and explain how it works so that we can put the mystery to rest once and fore all.

Im leaning more towards the compensated theory tough
 

Tirilej

Still a Lady
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Location
Sweden
"instead of picking results randomly from a fluid pool of wins possible"

Is this how slots work? They dont pick random reel positions? It picks possible winning/losing outcomes? Why cant someone from NetEnt,MG or WMS come on the forum and explain how it works so that we can put the mystery to rest once and fore all.

Im leaning more towards the compensated theory tough

Why can't you send an email to NetEnt/ Mg or WMS and ask? Then you can come back and tell us.

They will not sign up here and start a debate because people will not accept or believe what they are saying anyway.
You are a perfect example on that because whatever someone explains you just see what you want to see.

Please go and ask them!
 

aceking123

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
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Location
uk
Why can't you send an email to NetEnt/ Mg or WMS and ask? Then you can come back and tell us.

They will not sign up here and start a debate because people will not accept or believe what they are saying anyway.
You are a perfect example on that because whatever someone explains you just see what you want to see.

Please go and ask them!

tirilej you having a bad day young lady :D
 

aceking123

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
Joined
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Location
uk
Actually I am but I don't normally let anyone see that in the forum. Sorry :D

You made my day though with calling me young:notworthy

good good thought there was something up ) have a glass of wine young lady !:thumbsup:
 

whodatrec

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Im pretty sure they wont answer. But if they just told us if its a) RNG choses reel outcomes on the 5 reels. Or B) RNG choses a winning/losing value.
 

dunover

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"instead of picking results randomly from a fluid pool of wins possible"

Is this how slots work? They dont pick random reel positions? It picks possible winning/losing outcomes? Why cant someone from NetEnt,MG or WMS come on the forum and explain how it works so that we can put the mystery to rest once and fore all.

Im leaning more towards the compensated theory tough

They do on land based mechanical slots. I've always maintained this is not necessary on online/video slots. You have a pool of values matching the outcomes possible on the reelmaps which determine the TRTP. The RNG needs only to make one pick as opposed to 5. The result is then represented by ANY graphic showing reel positions which pertain to that outcome. IE. on TSII you could get 2 x scatter for a 1x stake win or A-A-A (one ace with wild) for the same. This leads to faster play and smoother games - remember the overall outcome over time is NOT any different to the games having 5 reels with separate random stops. Although it's not conclusive proof, you can for example on MG Viper download casinos see the result of your spin IMMEDIATELY after you press start in the lobby before the reels even take off. In programming terms online/video slots become far simpler. Either way there is NO evidence of 'compensation'.
 

whodatrec

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Location
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They do on land based mechanical slots. I've always maintained this is not necessary on online/video slots. You have a pool of values matching the outcomes possible on the reelmaps which determine the TRTP. The RNG needs only to make one pick as opposed to 5. The result is then represented by ANY graphic showing reel positions which pertain to that outcome. IE. on TSII you could get 2 x scatter for a 1x stake win or A-A-A (one ace with wild) for the same. This leads to faster play and smoother games - remember the overall outcome over time is NOT any different to the games having 5 reels with separate random stops. Although it's not conclusive proof, you can for example on MG Viper download casinos see the result of your spin IMMEDIATELY after you press start in the lobby before the reels even take off. In programming terms online/video slots become far simpler. Either way there is NO evidence of 'compensation'.

Yes i have read somewhere online about slots in B&M casinos in Vegas. That the regulators only demand that they pay the set minimum % and that every possible outcome is represented in the RNG. But its not random as in it randomly picks reel positions but as you say it only choses an outcome.
 
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