Watch out for Casino Extreme

[kidd546]

I have few posts here, but I post frequently on twoplustwo. A link to the thread I posted there:

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Basically, I did the initial bonus at Casino Extreme, recieved a cashout of $950, no problems.

Went on a -$1500 losing streak, then hit a huge $4k win. Requested my cashout, and then Extreme tells me that I am not allowed to play there due to legislation in Illinois. They refund the total of my deposits, putting me out $3k.

I did a PAB, and recieved an initial email, then nothing for a week. I finally emailed Extreme, they said they donated $3k to a charity in South Africa (I recieved no notice of this). I asked which charity this was and for proof of the donation 3 days ago, and have recieved no response.

 

[winbig]

nvm, blind today

 

[suzecat]

This was omitted from OP's explanation and, geez. it seems kinda relevant:

I am told I need to email the casino manager, and he tells me:

"Due to legislation in Illinois, gambling under the age of 21 is strictly prohibited. Therefor, your winnings will be removed from your account and your original deposit will be credited back to your NETeller account."

Player beware. If you get a big win it will be tough to get a cashout from extreme. Their incompetence in processing my first cashout led me to believe I was allowed to play at their site, and then I get a big win and they screw me over.

Seems to be a "been there, done that" re underage gamblers.

 

[winbig]

And people (more recently) wonder why Extreme is asking for ID more often.

 

[kidd546]

This was omitted from OP's explanation and, geez. it seems kinda relevant:

I am told I need to email the casino manager, and he tells me:

"Due to legislation in Illinois, gambling under the age of 21 is strictly prohibited. Therefor, your winnings will be removed from your account and your original deposit will be credited back to your NETeller account."

Player beware. If you get a big win it will be tough to get a cashout from extreme. Their incompetence in processing my first cashout led me to believe I was allowed to play at their site, and then I get a big win and they screw me over.

Seems to be a "been there, done that" re underage gamblers.

The legal age to gamble is 18 in the country where extreme is licensed.

My biggest beef is WHY they processed my first cashout. If they intend to keep their site 21+, why was I allowed to deposit, play, and withdrawl on my first deposit? I never provided incorrect information to them.

 

[winbig]

The legal age to gamble is 18 in the country where extreme is licensed.

Doesn't matter. You live in IL, and must abide by their laws.

My biggest beef is WHY they processed my first cashout. If they intend to keep their site 21+, why was I allowed to deposit, play, and withdrawl on my first deposit? I never provided incorrect information to them.

Everyone makes mistakes. At least you recieved the winnings from before

 

[winbig]

My biggest beef is WHY they processed my first cashout. If they intend to keep their site 21+, why was I allowed to deposit, play, and withdrawl on my first deposit? I never provided incorrect information to them.

I forgot to add, it IS legal in countries besides the USA to gamble at 18.

 

[GrandMaster]

I forgot to add, it IS legal in countries besides the USA to gamble at 18.

Not Iran or Saudi Arabia, just to name a couple.


It is worrying that casinos only make an issue 21 being the legal gambling in age in certain states when someone wants to cash out, while the casino already has all the relevant information available when the player registers. I would really like to see a post once that says "I am 19, I live in X, I deposited and played at casino Y, and after I lost all my money, the casino manager e-mailed me and explained that because the minimum age for gambling in my state is 21, I should not have been allowed to play, and refunded my deposit."

 

[kidd546]

It is worrying that casinos only make an issue 21 being the legal gambling in age in certain states when someone wants to cash out, while the casino already has all the relevant information available when the player registers.

This is my primary beef with the casino. They knew all my infoirmation from the start.

 

[jetset]

This cuts both ways imo, although the primary responsibility not to accept underage gamblers has to lie with the casino.

I believe that many young gamblers "take a chance" no matter what notices the casino has up, and that makes it even more incumbent on the casino to ensure that their guard is up against underage gamblers.

That should go beyond just putting a traffic sign on the landing page, and I find it hard to believe that the technology does not exist that enables casinos to kick out gamblers trying to register (who tell the truth about their ages) against the limits set by the casino.

That leads to a whole other argument about age verification, because there will also be youngsters who try to BS the system and need to be weeded out. If age verification is not possible at time of registration (and we all know the reasons why casinos are reluctant to impose this) then there should be some follow up routine, say on the first cash-out that calls for it.

Calling for ID on first cash-out even on small amounts is yet another player-sensitive area, but there should be some sort of routine that ensures that ages are verified within weeks rather than months of a player registering, because it is so important that underage gamblers are excluded.

Or.....the operator could just say "the hell with it" and take the lower business return of simply imposing a blanket 21 years old limit on everyone, which is what I understand the Grand Prive group has done after their Bella Vegas incident. Even then there will be cases where even that can generate criticism.

It's a problem area for sure and there are pros and cons on both sides of the argument. Operators don't actually want underage gamblers and the concomitant hassles.

Responsible operators don't want to use the underage justification for denying payouts....they would rather not have the underage gambler at all in my experience.

 

[players]

I dont think they donated the money to charity. It would be best for you to choose the charity of your choice also. I would atleast made them a offer that they can give me half of the money.

 

[nickpicky]

Doesn't matter. You live in IL, and must abide by their laws.

This is all disingenuous. The gambling statutes of Illinois declare gambling to be illegal at any age. Casino Extreme can't be allowed to pick and choose which particulars of the law they want to enforce. Either their position is that the event is taking place where their servers are housed (the typical position of an offshore casino) or they take the stance that the wager occurs at its true point of origin which would make the state laws applicable.

Casino Extreme can't have it both ways whenever it's convenient for them. Since they happily take playership from Illinois, it is obvious that the set of laws they are applying are of course those within the jurisdiction of their servers. Therefore they must also accept playership over the age of 18.

Casino Extreme should be strongly pressured to pay this player his money or be fully reprimanded by any and all regulatory bodies applicable. If they are allowed to operate at their "convenience" then there will assuredly continue to be transgressions against players. Under their system of logic, the next confiscation could occur simply because they don't want or are not capable of paying out a large winner. All they have to say is, "It's illegal for you to gamble in Illinois."

 

[chuchu59]

There have been several complaints on underage players not getting their winnings when they make a sizeable cashout. I simply cannot understand why the casinos cannot just check on those players who declare themselves to be of 18 - under 21 right after they sign up. There wouldnt be too many of them and the work involved wouldnt be tedious but this would solve a lot of problems.

 

[winbig]

There have been several complaints on underage players not getting their winnings when they make a sizeable cashout. I simply cannot understand why the casinos cannot just check on those players who declare themselves to be of 18 - under 21 right after they sign up. There wouldnt be too many of them and the work involved wouldnt be tedious but this would solve a lot of problems.

I really don't understand why the major S/W providers just don't put a checks/balances system in place for the registration process. No matter what state in the USA you're in, it's illegal to gamble (Except for the lottery, go figure) if you're under the age of 21.

IE:
If age < 21, then check country of origin.
If Country = USA, <insert country here>,then deny registration.

If MG spent 1/100th of the time on preventing underage gamblers from signing up at their licensee's casinos as they did putting out new games so very often, this issue would be cut in half, at least.

 

[jetset]

"I simply cannot understand why the casinos cannot just check on those players who declare themselves to be of 18 - under 21 right after they sign up. There wouldnt be too many of them and the work involved wouldnt be tedious but this would solve a lot of problems."

Good point, Chuchu!

 

[nickpicky]

Why would they put such a system in place? This is a "reputable" way for them to steal money from players. If you lose and you're under 21...sorry we don't check those kinds of things. If you win and you're under 21...sorry we check those kinds of things and we caught you.

They only stand to make money the way it is now and with everyone declaring that it's appropriate for them to act in such a manner you can be sure they will continue the scam.

 

[winbig]

Why would they put such a system in place? This is a "reputable" way for them to steal money from players. If you lose and you're under 21...sorry we don't check those kinds of things. If you win and you're under 21...sorry we check those kinds of things and we caught you.

They only stand to make money the way it is now and with everyone declaring that it's appropriate for them to act in such a manner you can be sure they will continue the scam.

In essence, you're saying that MG, Playtech, RTG and the other providers are simply turning a blind eye to this. With the gambling bill posing a thread, this issue would offer quite a bit of support for the bill, since they let users from the US sign up and deposit & withdraw (until they hit a 4-5 figure win) from age 18+. I've said before that it'd be in their best interest if they played by the rules and implemented some sort of system to help curb underage gambling; and still believe so.


Ultimately it is definately up to the casino in question to enforce 21+ for the USA and other countries affected, but why shouldn't it already be in the software? It wouldn't take hardly any time or resources for the programmers to make it happen.

Whether or not they will do it....well, I won't hold my breath.

 

[kidd546]

I dont think they donated the money to charity. It would be best for you to choose the charity of your choice also. I would atleast made them a offer that they can give me half of the money.

I have my doubts about this as well. The manager seems like he does not want to tell me where they gave the money.

 

[kidd546]

Casino Extreme still has not told me which charity they chose to donate the $3000 to. I suspect they made no such donation and simply said they did.

Another underage player from IL busted his $200 deposit. Casino Extreme refused to refund it. Freerolling scumbags...

 

[silcnlayc]

Another underage player from IL busted his $200 deposit. Casino Extreme refused to refund it. Freerolling scumbags...

This mentality is totally absurd and totally childish. Go into any casino and hit a win and get carded, and you think you are going to get your money back knowing full well YOU BROKE THE LAW?

You would be hustled out of there so fast you wouldn't know whether your backpeddling or diving out that front door. Geezes, grow up people. Casinos don't need to give back ANYTHING if you are fully aware of breaking any laws/T&C's or whatever.

These kinds of remarks makes me think that the player is trying to be the slick one...

hey lets go see if they can catch me and if they don't the first few times alrighty, but if they do, give me back my money!

...Geezes...

Ultimately it is definitely up to the casino in question to enforce 21+ for the USA and other countries affected

Why is it up to the casino when its in the T&C's and the player is the one breaking all kinds of rules and laws????

Isn't it time to start saying hey....you did it..now take the blame AND the consequences..the casinos don't hold a gun to our heads and MAKE us play or brak our arms depositing.

Isn't it time to take responsibility for ones actions instead of always trying to pass the buck and say...it's his fault, he let me in...knowing full well you shouldn't have gone in, in the first place?

 

[winbig]

This mentality is totally absurd and totally childish. Go into any casino and hit a win and get carded, and you think you are going to get your money back knowing full well YOU BROKE THE LAW?

You would be hustled out of there so fast you wouldn't know whether your backpeddling or diving out that front door. Geezes, grow up people. Casinos don't need to give back ANYTHING if you are fully aware of breaking any laws/T&C's or whatever.

These kinds of remarks makes me think that the player is trying to be the slick one......Geezes...

Why is it up to the casino when its in the T&C's and the player is the one breaking all kinds of rules and laws????

Isn't it time to start saying hey....you did it..now take the blame AND the consequences..the casinos don't hold a gun to our heads and MAKE us play or brak our arms depositing.

Isn't it time to take responsibility for ones actions instead of always trying to pass the buck and say...it's his fault, he let me in...knowing full well you shouldn't have gone in, in the first place?

What I meant by that is it's ultimately the casino's responsibility to ensure that problems like this don't occur. IE: Letting those < 21 in the USA even sign up in the first place, trying to beat the system.

 

[chuchu59]

This mentality is totally absurd and totally childish. Go into any casino and hit a win and get carded, and you think you are going to get your money back knowing full well YOU BROKE THE LAW?

You would be hustled out of there so fast you wouldn't know whether your backpeddling or diving out that front door. Geezes, grow up people. Casinos don't need to give back ANYTHING if you are fully aware of breaking any laws/T&C's or whatever.

These kinds of remarks makes me think that the player is trying to be the slick one......Geezes...

Why is it up to the casino when its in the T&C's and the player is the one breaking all kinds of rules and laws????

Isn't it time to start saying hey....you did it..now take the blame AND the consequences..the casinos don't hold a gun to our heads and MAKE us play or brak our arms depositing.

Isn't it time to take responsibility for ones actions instead of always trying to pass the buck and say...it's his fault, he let me in...knowing full well you shouldn't have gone in, in the first place?

Prevention is always better than cure so the casino should take the initiative to weed out the underage players. However, when this is not possible and this is known after play has commenced, the casino should void all play and return the deposit although this leaves open the position where some underage players slip through, lose and then claim they are underage. In these cases, I will have no qualms on the casino only refunding the remaining balance in the player's account.

What I am concerned about is that there do seem to be quite a number of casinos who half-knowingly accept underage players and hope they bust out but even when they win will not honour their winnings. Imageine the scenario where the guards at a B&M casino allow an underaged person to enter the casino without checking his ID but from experience are sure he is under 20. He plays freely and if he loses, fine but when he wins he is asked for his ID and is chucked out without any of his chips. This is a morality issue and the casinos should not be seen to benefit from this so as I said, prevention is better than cure.

 

[silcnlayc]

Imageine the scenario where the guards at a B&M casino allow an underaged person to enter the casino without checking his ID but from experience are sure he is under 20. He plays freely and if he loses, fine but when he wins he is asked for his ID and is chucked out without any of his chips. This is a morality issue and the casinos should not be seen to benefit from this so as I said, prevention is better than cure.

I beg to differ here for if it truly was a "Morality Issue" then the underage wouldn't try to "sneak" by now would they? Why is it that the casinos need to abide by this and not the underage player? I still believe that if you are underage, know it, and gambling is forbidden in your state as posted in the rules, then you deserve to lose every dime you spend, for I know, you, as an underage person, would keep your winnings if you were slick enough to get by now wouldn't you?

I noticed lately a few underage players have actually won and gotten paid out a time or two, then all of a sudden they get caught and cry "foul" and expect thier deposits back, etc etc...now let me ask you this...did any of these underage players OFFER to give back the winnings to the casinos they fraudulently took money from they actually were able to cash out before being caught?? I think not!

Lets do this scenerio since I assume you like them:

1. Underage player goes to casino, plays out $100 and wins $5000 in small increments so no carding is needed and knows he shouldn't have been there in the first place but he walks out door with winnings and no one stops him.

2. Underage player comes back a few more times and nets another $6-$7000 total but gets stopped on his last trip when he wins a big one (say $10,000)and gets carded, his winnings are voided, and casino tosses him out all the while screaming he wants HIS money back that he played with.

Excuse me, but for the fact that he got away a few times already, the money he was using to play with WAS NOT HIS MONEY for he won it illegaly in the first place.

 

[soflat]

The legal age for some forms of gambling is 18 in Illinois, 21 for other forms. I don't think they specifically state the age for online gambling.

 

[kidd546]

The legal age for some forms of gambling is 18 in Illinois, 21 for other forms. I don't think they specifically state the age for online gambling.

I was under the impression that the legal age was 18 in my jurisdiction. I had no previous problems with any online casinos.

I did not knowingly break the rules. I thought I was of legal age in my jurisdiction.

EDIT: The Casino still hasnt told me which charity they donated the winnings to.