Warning Don't Play Blackjack At Sunny Group

[murder1]

1 out of 70 doesn't prove nothing? Maybe to you it doesn't. But for me it means to move on. Maybe you like keeping your feet on the fire, but I the sure hell don't. I was on the receiving in at the time, not you. I know what I experienced and how often from this Group. The bottom line is Sunny Group can't get 1 red cent from me ever again. That's my right and im going to exercise it. THANK YOU!

 

[jpm]

I think that's probably the best thing to do murder1. Accept the loss and move on to greener pastures. I haven't really been back to Sunny since they screwed with GoneGambling. Right after that they changed their contest & bonus money to 'sticky', which made them even less attractive.

 

[ftg]

Losing 12/13 hands is going to happen sometime or another especially since you've been playing there since 1997. The more you play, the more you're going to lose. You're bound to see those long losing streaks . I've only played for 2 1/2 years and I've lost 11 in a row at an MG casino. I've gone down 140 units in BJ Switch. So whats new?

DealerBusts,

You are very lucky. I don't play many BJ and I play around 500 hands in MG weekly and every week I get a loosing streak of 11 in a row or more. On their Vegas Strip BJ. The longest losing streak I can remember is about 22 in a row. I do play BS provided by the Wiz.

For other software provider, here are my comments:
1. BOSS : steaky on both side. I play less there but streakiness on boths sides.
2. MG: streaky on dealer mostly. I have never have had a winning steak of >10. 7 in a row is very rare.
3. Wagerlogic: seems very normal to me. more lossing streak than winning streak but this is very normal. worst lossing streak is about 15, winning streak 12.
4. Playtech. Very streaky, once loss 20 in a row, >10 lossing streaks in very common (!!!) but in that session I'm lucky to be way ahead even with the lossing steak.

 

[DealerBusts]

DealerBusts,

You are very lucky. I don't play many BJ and I play around 500 hands in MG weekly and every week I get a loosing streak of 11 in a row or more. On their Vegas Strip BJ. The longest losing streak I can remember is about 22 in a row. I do play BS provided by the Wiz.

For other software provider, here are my comments:
1. BOSS : steaky on both side. I play less there but streakiness on boths sides.
2. MG: streaky on dealer mostly. I have never have had a winning steak of >10. 7 in a row is very rare.
3. Wagerlogic: seems very normal to me. more lossing streak than winning streak but this is very normal. worst lossing streak is about 15, winning streak 12.
4. Playtech. Very streaky, once loss 20 in a row, >10 lossing streaks in very common (!!!) but in that session I'm lucky to be way ahead even with the lossing steak.

If you lose 11 hands in a row that often you must be really unlucky! 22 in a row is massive, has anyone else has such bad results? I don't really play Viper software much since most MG casinos don't allow BJ for wagering for bonuses. I don't really use any progressive systems so to me being down 40 units at the end of a session is just as bad as having a loss of 15 in a row and losing another 25 units.

I agree about Boss being streaky as well as RTG. Crypto is pretty fair in my books. MG is ok although I had a bad 80 unit loss with their Single Deck a long time ago (my fault for trying to chase my losses as a newb). I'm not sure about Playtech because the cards seemed fixed sometimes (especially their BJ Switch) but I've profited fairly nicely from Playtech casinos. I think the doubling on VP is fair though.

 

[ftg]

If you lose 11 hands in a row that often you must be really unlucky! 22 in a row is massive, has anyone else has such bad results? I don't really play Viper software much since most MG casinos don't allow BJ for wagering for bonuses. I don't really use any progressive systems so to me being down 40 units at the end of a session is just as bad as having a loss of 15 in a row and losing another 25 units.

Yesterday I play BJ at RTG. got 11 in a row once, 10 in a row twice. my winning streak is 7 in a row. wow.... Though I still came out ahead, it was in fun mode.

 

[Clayman]

Yesterday I play BJ at RTG. got 11 in a row once, 10 in a row twice. my winning streak is 7 in a row. wow.... Though I still came out ahead, it was in fun mode.

Hi ftg
I always wonder when people talk about winning and losing streaks how they define them.
Does "lose" mean "lose only" or "lose or tie"? Does "win" mean "win only" or "win or BJ" or "win or BJ or tie"?
Anyway, Dealerbusts is probably right - you are pretty darn unlucky.

With RTG, I've had 1 streak of 13 "loss ony" and 2 @ 11 and 3 @ 10 in 18,000 hands. I've never had, on any software, anything even close to a 22 "lose only" streak. That's over 100,000,000 to 1, I think.

Anyway, did you ever get my reply to ypur PM?

 

[ftg]

Hi ftg
I always wonder when people talk about winning and losing streaks how they define them.
Does "lose" mean "lose only" or "lose or tie"? Does "win" mean "win only" or "win or BJ" or "win or BJ or tie"?

Anyway, did you ever get my reply to ypur PM?

I don't know how exactly others define winning/lossing streaks. For me, when I say lossing streaks of 10 in a row, it means lossing 10 hands exlcluding tie. For example,

LLTLLTLLTLLTLLT

I count it as a 10 in a row lossing streak.

and
I count "WWTDWBDTTTWWWW" as 10 in a row winning streak (B=BJ, double = double and win.)

Anyway, Dealerbusts is probably right - you are pretty darn unlucky.

I always don't believe why I am so unlucky. I always have the strategy cards in front of me and I double check afterwards sometimes to make sure I play perfect strategy.

Last week, I has a 13 lose in a row in Vegas Strip BJ in Viper:
LTL(DL)LLLLL(DL)LLLL (DL = doubled and lost)

This is still a 12 "loss only" streak.

With RTG, I've had 1 streak of 13 "loss ony" and 2 @ 11 and 3 @ 10 in 18,000 hands. I've never had, on any software, anything even close to a 22 "lose only" streak. That's over 100,000,000 to 1, I think.

Though my results at RTG as streaky as MG, I do find MG's games suspicious(The games include BJ, Baccarat and doubles on VP) becasue of where the lossing streaks begins and the bet size.

Anyway, did you ever get my reply to ypur PM?

Sorry, I didn't notice the PM. I will PM you now.

 

[Clayman]

For example,

LLTLLTLLTLLTLLT

I count it as a 10 in a row lossing streak.

and
I count "WWTDWBDTTTWWWW" as 10 in a row winning streak (B=BJ, double = double and win.)

Thanks I was just curious. What you call a "lose only" streak I call a "no win" streak and likewise I would call your "win only" streak a "no lose" streak.

Streaks are part of the game and alot of the reason I try to bet every hand as if it could be the beginning of one of these messy streaks. Nobody likes losing 15 units in 20 hands but it happens. It's not even at all unlikely. But, if you're betting $6/hand on a $100 bankroll, you're pretty much done. Bet $1/hand and you still have 85% of your bankroll and can recover.

Anyway you're doing the right thing playing with a strategy card in front of you. Things should even out for you if you are on a bad run.

Make sure it's the RIGHT BS card for the rules of the game, though! I'm sure you are.

 

[jpm]

Clayman, maybe you can answer this for me. Seems like a simple enough question, but I'm not real sure of the answer.

Assuming I have the correct strategy card, typically it says its for the first 2 cards only. So say I have a total of 9 and the dealer is showing a 9 or 10, I take a hit and get say a 5 for a total of 14. Now do I consult the card and check 14 vs dealer 9 or 10 or wing it? I know that I need to hit it, but how do you handle this with the card (and how does viper handle it)??

 

[Clayman]

Assuming I have the correct strategy card, typically it says its for the first 2 cards only. So say I have a total of 9 and the dealer is showing a 9 or 10, I take a hit and get say a 5 for a total of 14. Now do I consult the card and check 14 vs dealer 9 or 10 or wing it? I know that I need to hit it, but how do you handle this with the card (and how does viper handle it)??

Yes, now you would play what the card says for a 14 vs 9. Or if you get A,3,2,A vs 6 you would play it as an A,6. This is what they call total-dependent strategy since it depends on the total of your cards.

While it's true this may sometimes give rise to incorrect plays, there isn't too much you can do about. Like if you get a 4,4,4,4, vs 10 even in an 8-deck game you should stand even though the card says to hit. This occurs less often in multi-deck games but there are quite a few plays in single-deck that depend on the composition of the cards that comprise your total. Like you would hit a 10,2 vs 6 but stand on 9,3 vs 6 in single-deck. And you would stand on any 3-or more-card 12 vs a 3. Probably the most common one would be multi-card 16's vs 10 - sometimes you stand, sometimes you hit. I wouldn't worry about it though unless you play single-deck. This is called composition-dependent strategy since it depends on the exact cards your hand is composed of. If you are really interested you can go to

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and set the rules and plug in specific cards.

When I last played Viper, I seem to remember having to make alot of changes to the default Basic Strategy for auto-play. The default was nowhere close to proper Basic Strategy. So watch-out for that. Naturally, there isn't one Basic Strategy that covers the 6 different BJ games they offer now.

When I take up poker, I'll be asking you the questions!

 

[jpm]

Thanks Clayman, I'll check out that link. It was always kind of baffling what to do next when you get the multicard 16 vs 10. Seems like a crapshoot at that point, flip a coin. Its just something that always bugged me about the strategy cards, they don't have the 'what do I do now' column on them!

I was kinda worried about the viper strategy, hard to believe the casino would really put optimal strategy into the robot they supply. Their VP strategy is pretty good, but I still like to keep an eye on it. Every so often it will do something I disagree with and I'll override it. Of course it usually makes little or no difference, lol.

I'll be happy to answer your vp questions anytime!

 

[GrandMaster]

Yes, now you would play what the card says for a 14 vs 9. Or if you get A,3,2,A vs 6 you would play it as an A,6. This is what they call total-dependent strategy since it depends on the total of your cards.

While it's true this may sometimes give rise to incorrect plays, there isn't too much you can do about. Like if you get a 4,4,4,4, vs 10 even in an 8-deck game you should stand even though the card says to hit. This occurs less often in multi-deck games but there are quite a few plays in single-deck that depend on the composition of the cards that comprise your total. Like you would hit a 10,2 vs 6 but stand on 9,3 vs 6 in single-deck. And you would stand on any 3-or more-card 12 vs a 3. Probably the most common one would be multi-card 16's vs 10 - sometimes you stand, sometimes you hit. I wouldn't worry about it though unless you play single-deck. This is called composition-dependent strategy since it depends on the exact cards your hand is composed of. If you are really interested you can go to

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

and set the rules and plug in specific cards.

When I last played Viper, I seem to remember having to make alot of changes to the default Basic Strategy for auto-play. The default was nowhere close to proper Basic Strategy. So watch-out for that. Naturally, there isn't one Basic Strategy that covers the 6 different BJ games they offer now.

When I take up poker, I'll be asking you the questions!

The Wizard of Odds :notworthy has a list of composition dependent exceptions to the basic strategy for single and double deck BJ. In a single deck game, you always stand on a 3 card 12 vs 3, this is a convenient rule to remember, but there are few hands with 4 or more cards which you should hit. Viper's built-in BJ strategy indeed has a number of mistakes, but I believe the VP strategy is correct, since it works by calculating the expectations rather than by recognising patterns.

 

[milly]

On all casinos

They deal themselves what they need to win, if you dont hit on 12 when dealer shows a 6 they will get a 5 or 4 if you do you will get a 10 and think shit dealer should have had that but they dont. If they show a 10 and you ave 15 you hit you get a 10 if you dont they turn over a 6 they will get a 5 its always the same. And as for doubling on 11 always ace, two or three rarely 10.

 

[DealerBusts]

They deal themselves what they need to win, if you dont hit on 12 when dealer shows a 6 they will get a 5 or 4 if you do you will get a 10 and think shit dealer should have had that but they dont. If they show a 10 and you ave 15 you hit you get a 10 if you dont they turn over a 6 they will get a 5 its always the same. And as for doubling on 11 always ace, two or three rarely 10.

Do you mean all software providers? I would say, it is only true when it comes to Playtech BJ. Their BJ is very badly rigged. I would say my results at BJ Switch are much better than their BJ but I've heard of some very bad results and not many good results.