Videoslots source of wealth income etc etc etc

[shadow123]

Just re read the pdf document again

It says

3.6 If you use global thresholds, these should be realistic. To put this into context, you could
look at the Office of National Statistics publications on levels of household income, or
assess what is ‘normal’ for most of your customers.

which is nothing like Mr Wilds version

3.6. You need to look at household income

I read that as player x is a bus driver and says he earns 50k,sounds wrong so check ONS publication to see if this is reasonable.
Certainly not tell player x to send his bank statement.

 

[mimi26]

I dont understand how casinos will think that the customer will be OK sending stuff like this, who would go to that much trouble and have your privacy invaded just to gamble its insane

 

[brianmon]

Just re read the pdf document again

It says

3.6 If you use global thresholds, these should be realistic. To put this into context, you could
look at the Office of National Statistics publications on levels of household income, or
assess what is ‘normal’ for most of your customers.

which is nothing like Mr Wilds version

3.6. You need to look at household income

I read that as player x is a bus driver and says he earns 50k,sounds wrong so check ONS publication to see if this is reasonable.
Certainly not tell player x to send his bank statement.

Plus... The only way you could attempt to assess household income from a bank statement, is if the player was single and lives alone.

What about the income of partners/spouses? That's part of the household income and may be much greater than the income of the person who's playing.

My interpretation of '3.6' would be... If a player is depositing 5k a week then you should make some enquiries

 

[DreamRJ]

@Dan.Videoslots

Well I got an email today from VS.

And they said that they are setting my loss limit at only £150 each month!!! Are they f****** serious?????

But I checked in my responsible gambling section and it still shows the £2,000 loss limit I set in it the other day when I got the pop up box. So Dan can you please just remove my loss limit. I do not want one on my account!

Thanks

 

[lockinlove]

All the other casinos watching videoslots shoot themselves in the foot

 

[Dan.Videoslots]

Hi DreamRJ,

I have sent you a PM.

Br,
Daniel.

 

[deepsky2]

All the other casinos watching videoslots shoot themselves in the foot

View attachment 87948

I was going to say the same thing If any good comes out of this it will be other casinos benifeting from VS mistakes, hopefully if other casinos do source of wealth they'll be more on top of it and not make them self a sinking ship like VS on this subject.

 

[DreamRJ]

Hi DreamRJ,

I have sent you a PM.

Br,
Daniel.

Ok thanks Dan, replied with another question for ya

 

[DreamRJ]

I was going to say the same thing If any good comes out of this it will be other casinos benifeting from VS mistakes, hopefully if other casinos do source of wealth they'll be more on top of it and not make them self a sinking ship like VS on this subject.

It is not a question of IF. They have to do them eventually by the date set by the UKGC. If they do not they risk being fined and their license revoked!!

 

[EnglishGuy]

Dan, again you miss the point.

nowhere in that text does it ask vs to do any of the things that its doing.

Your interpretation of what you think the UKGC wants,, is out there with the fairies.

 

[DreamRJ]

Dan, again you miss the point.

nowhere in that text does it ask vs to do any of the things that its doing.

Your interpretation of what you think the UKGC wants,, is out there with the fairies.

And as I said in previous posts. It is VS right to operate how they want to operate as long as they are not breaking any rules!

 

[lockinlove]

It is not a question of IF. They have to do them eventually by the date set by the UKGC. If they do not they risk being fined and their license revoked!!

This is videoslots.

I have been asked by other casinos source of wealth they ask me two question from a drop down and thats it.

Videoslots has a reputation for going overboard with stuff. They were adamant about the prepaid card policy and still demand people sign affadavits when no other casino on the planet does so.

It is someone at videoslots going overboard 100%

 

[lockinlove]

And as I said in previous posts. It is VS right to operate how they want to operate as long as they are not breaking any rules!

They can operate how they want but that doesnt mean people cant disagree with it publicly

 

[DreamRJ]

They can operate how they want but that doesnt mean people cant disagree with it publicly

Yes I know, I am not saying people cant. But it is getting tiresome. Because as I said people who keep moaning about it wont make them change the way they operate. Only way a casino changes the way they operate is when they either get bought and under new management or they change 95% of their staff!

 

[mimi26]

Yes I know, I am not saying people cant. But it is getting tiresome. Because as I said people who keep moaning about it wont make them change the way they operate. Only way a casino changes the way they operate is when they either get bought and under new management or they change 95% of their staff!

or their customers leave them in droves!

 

[lockinlove]

Yes I know, I am not saying people cant. But it is getting tiresome. Because as I said people who keep moaning about it wont make them change the way they operate. Only way a casino changes the way they operate is when they either get bought and under new management or they change 95% of their staff!

Untrue. When a company gets alot of bad feedback from their customers they change. Videoslots changed with their prepaid policy after blowback and they changed their loss limit on freerolls because of blowback too.

i tried to get videoslots to change the loss limit on freerolls 2 months ago. But because I was the only voice and in that situation, it wasnt taken seriously. But when there are more voices, it changed.

I will say videoslots do not seem likely to change with this though and they are getting an awful lot of blowback for it. So someone up there is playing stubborn.

I closed my account because of this. Ive deposited tens of thousands with them and I highly doubt thats even enough to make them flinch. Its not to put pressure on them, I am a person who will not support companies dictating to their customers and will go to the extreme with it. I am probably the rare case that went that far but I dont care. it will be a cold day in hell when a manager at a hospital, that went to university for 4 years will be treated like a helpless 7 year old. Its insulting to treat people like idiots because of a small group of people with gambling issues.

 

[goatwack]

Yes I know, I am not saying people cant. But it is getting tiresome. Because as I said people who keep moaning about it wont make them change the way they operate. Only way a casino changes the way they operate is when they either get bought and under new management or they change 95% of their staff!

You're right in that they will run things as they see fit, but given the overwhelming negative response to these changes, any good business would take that onboard and look at it as something worth scrutinizing. It's in no one's interests to lose the bulk of your player base!

Think of it as constructive - even if moany- criticism. And whilst we still can voice our displeasure at something I think it can only be a good thing to get it out there

 

[DreamRJ]

or their customers leave them in droves!

That doesn't always mean they will change! if anything that will just result in them closing down!

 

[miksaxxx]

Dont UK have any European Data Protection Supervisor in goverment where to complaint ?

Finland has European Data Protection Supervisor to protect people.

 

[interlog]

Untrue. When a company gets alot of bad feedback from their customers they change. Videoslots changed with their prepaid policy after blowback and they changed their loss limit on freerolls because of blowback too.

i tried to get videoslots to change the loss limit on freerolls 2 months ago. But because I was the only voice and in that situation, it wasnt taken seriously. But when there are more voices, it changed.

I will say videoslots do not seem likely to change with this though and they are getting an awful lot of blowback for it. So someone up there is playing stubborn.

I closed my account because of this. Ive deposited tens of thousands with them and I highly doubt thats even enough to make them flinch. Its not to put pressure on them, I am a person who will not support companies dictating to their customers and will go to the extreme with it. I am probably the rare case that went that far but I dont care. it will be a cold day in hell when a manager at a hospital, that went to university for 4 years will be treated like a helpless 7 year old. Its insulting to treat people like idiots because of a small group of people with gambling issues.

That is just it. A small minority kicking off complaining because they blew their dosh gambling. But rather than look in the mirror to seek blame, they blame somebody else.

As a result those that can control their gambling suffer. Always the case with this blame culture we have created.

 

[DreamRJ]

All I am saying is this. I am not saying that casinos do not change based on feedback, sometimes they do make changes but the vast majority do not. Yes We have a very awesome active rep for VS. And changes have happened as a result. But those changes are minor fixes and tweaks to the systems they have made. They are not changing the way they operate as a whole. There is a huge difference between that!

A change in the way they operate would result in them scrapping this whole system in its entirety and redoing it again and making it completely different. Changing their terms and conditions etc etc.

Now that is something that takes far longer. Making and using the current systems and operations they already operate under is something that can not just be changed overnight. that can take months to change how they operate as a whole. Personally I like how VS operate. Because they operate in a direct proper way. Yes so what they overdo things. Well as I said that is how they want to operate!

I feel we will not agree @lockinlove So I think it is best to actually just let bygones be bygones and agree to disagree

EDIT: And one last point is: CM members are only a tiny percentage of people who play at VS. I would guess it is about 5%. So there is about 95% who do not even use CM or know about it! who play there.

And those players do not have a voice because they do not post here! So we do not know if those 95% are happy with how they operate do we?

 

[goatwack]

Say what you will, but Videoslots are the first to grab the bull by the horns so to speak; it's only inevitable that others will follow, with likely far more aggrevating forms and prying questions. I expect this to be in its infancy and evolve over the coming months to hopefully reach an amicable point.

VS are simply getting the flak because they're amongst the first to actively use this source of wealth baloney. We're venting at them when really we're pissed off at the overall situation regarding the clusterf*ck downstairs mixup that is RG and AML

And I haven't seen Dan hide away in some corner either....he's been here soaking up the volley of tirades aimed at his employers, and answered to the best of his ability. I can imagine many a rep would have taken a leave of absence until this mess clears up. So kudos to him

 

[miksaxxx]

That doesn't always mean they will change! if anything that will just result in them closing down!

VS is now putted them selfs in situation where customers vote with their feet to next casino.

VS ask AML documents and use them in RG rules. " basically what ever they want ". And there was pointed out , that " SOW " cant be used for RG reculations. So they are shooting them selfs ..

This thread will continue to next december 2018 .
----------

When i was " SOW " in Casumo. It taked 17 nightmare hours and in phone 1.5 hours to Malta. After when it was finished and goed thru.

They dint say nothing about deposit limit or loss limit.

 

[DreamRJ]

Say what you will, but Videoslots are the first to grab the bull by the horns so to speak; it's only inevitable that others will follow, with likely far more aggrevating forms and prying questions. I expect this to be in its infancy and evolve over the coming months to hopefully reach an amicable point.

VS are simply getting the flak because they're amongst the first to actively use this source of wealth baloney. We're venting at them when really we're pissed off at the overall situation regarding the clusterf*ck downstairs mixup that is RG and AML

And I haven't seen Dan hide away in some corner either....he's been here soaking up the volley of tirades aimed at his employers, and answered to the best of his ability. I can imagine many a rep would have taken a leave of absence until this mess clears up. So kudos to him

Exactly

 

[lockinlove]

All I am saying is this. I am not saying that casinos do not change based on feedback, sometimes they do make changes but the vast majority do not. Yes We have a very awesome active rep for VS. And changes have happened as a result. But those changes are minor fixes and tweaks to the systems they have made. They are not changing the way they operate as a whole. There is a huge difference between that!

A change in the way they operate would result in them scrapping this whole system in its entirety and redoing it again and making it completely different. Changing their terms and conditions etc etc.

Now that is something that takes far longer. Making and using the current systems and operations they already operate under is something that can not just be changed overnight. that can take months to change how they operate as a whole. Personally I like how VS operate. Because they operate in a direct proper way. Yes so what they overdo things. Well as I said that is how they want to operate!

I feel we will not agree @lockinlove So I think it is best to actually just let bygones be bygones and agree to disagree

EDIT: And one last point is: CM members are only a tiny percentage of people who play at VS. I would guess it is about 5%. So there is about 95% who do not even use CM or know about it! who play there.

And those players do not have a voice because they do not post here! So we do not know if those 95% are happy with how they operate do we?

What videoslots is doing will not help a single person out there. Gamblers will always find a way to gamble. The only thing they are doing is pissing off players and slashing their bottom line.

If videoslots cared, All they need to do is send out a weekly or monthly memo offering their players ways to get help if needed. "Hey its your friends from videoslots. We care about our players and want to make sure you are gambling responsibly. if you feel you may have a problem here are some links to some helplines and responsible gambling tools we offer on our website. Always remember to gamble responsibly." Bingo. And alongside that, if any player suggests they may have a problem, take the necessary actions such as closing accounts or whatever the policy is.


That actually may make a difference than imposing some silly proof of wealth paper that will do nothing but make the person log into another casino and deposit.

 

[miksaxxx]

Say what you will, but Videoslots are the first to grab the bull by the horns so to speak; it's only inevitable that others will follow, with likely far more aggrevating forms and prying questions. I expect this to be in its infancy and evolve over the coming months to hopefully reach an amicable point.

VS are simply getting the flak because they're amongst the first to actively use this source of wealth baloney. We're venting at them when really we're pissed off at the overall situation regarding the clusterf*ck downstairs mixup that is RG and AML

And I haven't seen Dan hide away in some corner either....he's been here soaking up the volley of tirades aimed at his employers, and answered to the best of his ability. I can imagine many a rep would have taken a leave of absence until this mess clears up. So kudos to him

But he cant still say why they are mixing AML and RG ?

It has been asked many times

 

[goatwack]

But he cant still say why they are mixing AML and RG ?

It has been asked many times

Don't worry, even I've asked that one 'a few times'

 

[miksaxxx]

Don't worry, even I've asked that one 'a few times'

I need to worry , after UK it is every other country

My VS history in couple of years.

Deposits : - 189,267.68 €

Withdraws: 167,444.17 €

bonus+ etc.. : 5497.28 €

If i would not played 2017 it would be about tie in deposits and withdraws.

 

[Lincolnuk]

It wouldnt bother me if i couldnt play there if i hit my limit. I never win there, The only time i see 4 figures is when the notification bar pops up to tell me my last tourney place

 

[BillyGoldblum]

I need to worry , after UK it is every other country

My VS history in couple of years.

Deposits : - 189,267.68 €

Withdraws: 167,444.17 €

bonus+ etc.. : 5497.28 €

If i would not played 2017 it would be about tie in deposits and withdraws.

And here I thought $35,000 in deposits in less than 2 years was alot for one casino

3% in bonuses for such a high depositor?

You running at an rtp of about 88%

 

[interlog]

And here I thought $35,000 in deposits in less than 2 years was alot for one casino

3% in bonuses for such a high depositor?

You running at an rtp of about 79%

RTP can only be calculated on wagers not on deposits vs withdrawals. I bet it is higher than 79%

 

[BillyGoldblum]

RTP can only be calculated on wagers not on deposits vs withdrawals. I bet it is higher than 79%

I think my math was wrong anyways and its closer to 89% but yeah true I thought for some reason wager because of the large numbers

 

[miksaxxx]

And here I thought $35,000 in deposits in less than 2 years was alot for one casino

3% in bonuses for such a high depositor?

You running at an rtp of about 88%

I have allways sayed that VS dont like losing players.. Can someone AML check them ?

I have had my bad time with loyalty department. Now i have getted something from loyalty.
i will lose my mind again , so i dont say nothing anymore about their loyalty.

Other gives 10-15 % CB ( it is same if you winned them 100k last year. ) Other ones dont care of winnings

 

[colinsunderland]

3.6. You need to look at household income
3.7. Recommendation to put compulsory limits.
3.11 Its recommended to carry out AML/RG checks on VIP customers.

So when did you ask customers for the household income?
How exactly will you verify that? Demand that customers send their partners and childrens bank statements and payslips in too?

 

[colinsunderland]

And as I said in previous posts. It is VS right to operate how they want to operate as long as they are not breaking any rules!

Which they were (not sure if the forms have changed since the thread was made)

 

[Mr Wild]

So when did you ask customers for the household income?
How exactly will you verify that? Demand that customers send their partners and childrens bank statements and payslips in too?

Hmm... why are you asking me?
These guidelines was released today and set by your government?

 

[brianmon]

Hmm... why are you asking me?
These guidelines was released today and set by your government?

The keyword here being GUIDELINES

The definition of which is...

A guideline is a statement by which to determine a course of action. A guideline aims to streamline particular processes according to a set routine or sound practice. By definition, following a guideline is never mandatory. Guidelines are not binding and are not enforced.

 

[colinsunderland]

Hmm... why are you asking me?
These guidelines was released today and set by your government?

Because you are the one who posted the misleading information. The guidelines released today don't say anything of the sort.
For a representative of Videoslots you do say some inaccurate stuff.

Quick question, are you posting on behalf of videoslots or as a consumer? As the lines seem to be blurred.

 

[DreamRJ]

The keyword here being GUIDELINES

The definition of which is...

A guideline is a statement by which to determine a course of action. A guideline aims to streamline particular processes according to a set routine or sound practice. By definition, following a guideline is never mandatory. Guidelines are not binding and are not enforced.

I too got confused then, Cos I saw a post from Dan that said that they have to follow these directives or risk a fine or loss of license?! So which is it?

And furthermore guidelines can still be enforced!!

Why not breakdown the full list of rules each UKGC license holder has to abide by? And then lets see which of those rules are guidelines or actual rules? Or are they all just guidelines? Because I know for a fact that if casinos break the rules of the UKGC license then they lose it or get fined!?!

 

[Mr Wild]

Because you are the one who posted the misleading information. The guidelines released today don't say anything of the sort.
For a representative of Videoslots you do say some inaccurate stuff.

Quick question, are you posting on behalf of videoslots or as a consumer? As the lines seem to be blurred.

I have never posted in behalf of Videoslots. Im no official rep of Videoslots.

I however know, what exactly UKGC have said and today they where confirmed with guidelines. You might think they are "guidelines" but the UKGC compliance officers follow them by law. Latest today GVC was fined for not following bonus guidelines. 350K GBP.

 

[DreamRJ]

I have never posted in behalf of Videoslots. Im no official rep of Videoslots.

I however know, what exactly UKGC have said and today they where confirmed with guidelines. You might think they are "guidelines" but the UKGC compliance officers follow them by law. Latest today GVC was fined for not following bonus guidelines. 350K GBP.

That is what I thought too. Guidelines or not, they are still enforced. Because they have written them. So why would they write them if they wasn't enforcing them? We all also know why the UK decided to make a UKGC license, because they wanted to get a cut and make some money out of it. So of course they will be enforcing the guidelines because they want to make that extra money from the fines!

 

[Mr Wild]

You should also ask yourself, why did Videoslots only launch this on the UK market and only a couple of days before UKGC launches these new guidelines, which almost are identical with what Videoslots start doing a couple of days ago.

 

[Mr Wild]

Stop taking this fight against Videoslots. Send your complaints to UKGC instead!

 

[greylady]

Guidelines may not be mandatory but are seen as 'best practice' - correct me if I am wrong but I am sure if they are not followed and any casino is investigated, then the guidelines are taken into consideration when making any legal decision.

Another matter - what if you are self employed and your contract states the contract could be terminated with immediate effect should any of the content be disclosed to a third party, including payment details? I don't doubt some employers have something similar in their contract of employment, I know I have previously so do you disclose or not? I know I wouldn't.

 

[DreamRJ]

Stop taking this fight against Videoslots. Send your complaints to UKGC instead!

the thing is though, people will just ignore what me and you say on this matter. And just continue with the same posts over and over and over again. The only reason they do is because they know that Dan is very very active here!

If it was another casino that is less active, the threads would die very fast!

 

[brianmon]

I have never posted in behalf of Videoslots. Im no official rep of Videoslots.

I however know, what exactly UKGC have said and today they where confirmed with guidelines. You might think they are "guidelines" but the UKGC compliance officers follow them by law. Latest today GVC was fined for not following bonus guidelines. 350K GBP.

They breached actual rules and regulations. The word 'guidelines' doesn't appear anywhere in the document

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I wonder if some of the problems/misinterpretations that many casinos have. Is because their lawyers/legal team aren't fluent English speakers? Although i would assume pretty competent with English.

That's not meant, in anyway to be condescending, or even aimed at VideoSlots.
But English has many words which have the same meaning in one context and a different meaning in another context and many similar words that mean different things in different contexts.
Legal/government documents can be difficult enough for English people to decipher. So it's not going to be any easier if English is your second language

 

[Mr Wild]

But he cant still say why they are mixing AML and RG ?

It has been asked many times

If you read the new guidelines from UKGC Old / Expired Link

On 3.11 its recommended to carry out both AML and RG checks on VIP customers.

 

[brianmon]

If you read the new guidelines from UKGC Old / Expired Link

On 3.11 its recommended to carry out both AML and RG checks on VIP customers.

I doesn't recommend, it says you can, meaning it an option

3.11 Because VIP customers can also be at risk of harm, you should carry out a responsible gambling check when upgrading a customer to VIP status, and keep this under review. You can also use these opportunities to carry out checks for AML. This could also help you to support customers who have had major wins

 

[lockinlove]

So far from what I read on it, there is no policy or demand. They are simply suggesting it may be a responsible thing that casinos start doing. Part of being a gaming commission is to suggest ways that casinos can improve if they want to. It doesnt demand you run around demanding a whole pile of ridiculous documents and then limiting players across your casino on what they can spend.

 

[colinsunderland]

I have never posted in behalf of Videoslots. Im no official rep of Videoslots.

I however know, what exactly UKGC have said and today they where confirmed with guidelines. You might think they are "guidelines" but the UKGC compliance officers follow them by law. Latest today GVC was fined for not following bonus guidelines. 350K GBP.

But what you posted was not what was in the guidelines, you edited it to say something different.

Are you still requesting information under AML's then using them for RG?