Videoslots source of wealth income etc etc etc

[kidgloves]

I got my Proof of source of wealth request right off the back of being accepted on the Source of wealth declaration. This was not with any pending withdrawal. My issue which I hope doesn't get flagged is that the bank statements I have sent them use a different account to the one I fund videoslots with. I guess a lot of people would be like this as many people want to keep their gambling transactions separate like me. I've shown them where the money is coming from, hope that's enough.

 

[bebo67]

I don't know if anyone has posted this yet, but if not, it's a very informative read. Especially the part that says " multiple use of different cc", wallets etc. So those throw away cards could end up being a red flag.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[shadow123]

interesting section from the above advice

Casino operators should also apply a risk-based approach to due diligence and should therefore consider whether it is appropriate to:

• seek further verification from the customer
• request information on the source of the funds
• conduct enhanced ongoing monitoring
• cease the business relationship

which implies that the casino should make the decision whether to issue a SOW request only when there is an appropriate reason to do so which
does not seem to be happenning from some of the postings.

 

[lockinlove]

I find it hard to believe that the UKGC is demanding casinos ask for proof of income and forms on $25 depositors. Im pretty sure someone at videoslots is reading the situation wrong.

 

[Mouche12]

Well, Dan specifically mentioned that "We have rolled out this new system in UK after a call with the UKGC where they urge us to improve our checks on UK players and make sure they dont gamble for more than they afford and also to make sure funds are legit accordlingly with the EU's 4th directive."

So, this is the UGGC's doing and they also refer to the EU directive - it seems VS can only comply with their demands, or they would lose their licence in the UK.

 

[colinsunderland]

interesting section from the above advice

Casino operators should also apply a risk-based approach to due diligence and should therefore consider whether it is appropriate to:

• seek further verification from the customer
• request information on the source of the funds
• conduct enhanced ongoing monitoring
• cease the business relationship

which implies that the casino should make the decision whether to issue a SOW request only when there is an appropriate reason to do so which
does not seem to be happenning from some of the postings.

Exactly and whats what I've been trying to get across for weeks. Theres also a part in one document where it CLEARLY states, this should not be used as a data gathering exercise.

I would also like to know where all this extremely confidential paperwork is going, is it only senior members of staff looking at it or can the whole office see it. Once its been verified is it then moved off the main servers and stored on an airgapped server, that only one or 2 highest level staff have access to. or is it just left normally for someone to hack into or a skint or pissed off member of staff to download and sell on (which goes on regularly).

There is more than enough information in whats being asked for for someone to commit large scale fraud with if they had unrestricted access to it. I'm not talking about just grabbing a few free pizzas using your card number, but if you give videoslots everything on the list then they will have more information on you than your bank, or pretty much anyone else you deal with.

 

[colinsunderland]

Well, Dan specifically mentioned that "We have rolled out this new system in UK after a call with the UKGC where they urge us to improve our checks on UK players and make sure they dont gamble for more than they afford and also to make sure funds are legit accordlingly with the EU's 4th directive."

So, this is the UGGC's doing and they also refer to the EU directive - it seems VS can only comply with their demands, or they would lose their licence in the UK.

The UKGC guidelines are linked to a few times, don't think one person who has read them still say what VS are doing is correct.

 

[gtpaul]

That is a good point Colin.

I have thought long and hard about this situation and come to the conclusion.

I wont be submitting any of the requested paperwork which has been asked for ( its my private affairs, they have enough info already)

I will continue to play at my other casinos, if this starts happening at the rest, then one by one they will also "fade away"

Like most have pointed out, all this new information where is it stored? who sees it? (good example of the corrupt casino employee etc)

There is going to be a lot of confusion, account closures lack of depositors until it is rolled out correctly and higher level casino staff know what they are doing.

Anyway, glad its all being debated and everyone can see it needs proper clarification and tweaking.

Im outta here gotta go and empty bonanza, the secret is out now, between the hours of 1am and 5am hot mode kicks in SSHH! (see my bonanza thread)

GL to all TC

Katanga

 

[Steviedoo]

Do these rules only apply to uk players.

 

[Mouche12]

Do these rules only apply to uk players.

It seems so, for the time being.

As to the highly confidential nature of all these data - would it not be possible to redaction the stored documents after they've been approved so that they cannot be abused by anyone in a worst case scenario?

 

[EnglishGuy]

My initial approval happened within a few hours... but if they restrict my account and start demanding bank statements, then i will just close the account, and play at any one of the other casinos, and if they do the same, i will just move to the next. Chances are casinos are created faster than i would leave them.. lol

21casino > Royal Panda > Redbet > Rizk > Leovegas > Betfair > Energy > BetVictor > Casumo

The EU and its rule creating, is one of the worst things to happen to Europe since WW2. The sooner we gain our independence the better in my book.

 

[Mouche12]

"The EU and its rule creating, is one of the worst things to happen to Europe since WW2. The sooner we gain our independence the better in my book."

As I understand from Dan the UKGC is the culprit here, so becoming independent won't do much good for the Brits in this respect.

 

[ternur]

The EU and its rule creating, is one of the worst things to happen to Europe since WW2. The sooner we gain our independence the better in my book.

You're not going to get out of AML regulations by leaving the EU. These rules pretty much come from FATF recommendations and G7(+) countries will make sure global movements of money are and stay easily tracked.

 

[chris87]

Whilst I realise that these regulations are not of Videoslot's making, I do not think that this has been handled very well. Looking at the comments it appears that I was one of the first from the forum hit by this request over a week ago, when my account was suspended mid play without warning. Then after being verified, following my SOW declaration, albeit with my account severely restricted, I find that I am now unverified again with a number of sensitive personal documents being requested to prove what I stated in my SOW declaration.

As I mentioned earlier I have been with VS almost from the start and since then to date my net loss has been over £35k. They have never been a lucky casino for me, but I've stuck with them as they have been one of the best out there. However, there should have been much better communication with their customers over this issue and a better understanding of the regulation's requirements, as it appears that there should have been a selection of players required to go through this process based on criteria, rather than the apparent scattergun approach.

I wasn't particularly comfortable about sending my bank statement following the original SOW request, although I did, but I certainly cannot send the documents now requested given the fear that the data could fall into the wrong hands and the risk of identity theft or worse if this occurred. After all, there has been no clarity as to how the data will be managed or stored as of yet.

A shame as I've enjoyed playing at VS over the years and the losses have been the price of that entertainment. I'll also no doubt, unless Dan advises otherwise, be now unable to withdraw my race and weekend booster money for the week just ended, which is a minor point, but annoying nevertheless.

Chris

 

[Dan.Videoslots]

Hi all,

We have been listening your feedback and we will today release a new pop-up window that every player from UK will get the first time they start a game. This window will ask for occupation and also ask how much the player feel they can afford to lose over a month. This will then set a monthly loss limit for the player.

This popup window will reduce amount of emails sent out regarding Deceleration of SoW and Proof of SoW and we hope that this will improve the player journey.

Br,

Daniel

 

[shadow123]

I think VS are in a horrible position on this one,UKGM on one side with threats of retribution if the requirements are not fully complied with and
a pile of pissed off UK players on the other.I do think they should try to understand how players feel when their play is suddenly interrupted
and then they recieve demands for information that many feel that is too sensitive to submit to unknown scrutiny.
Bear in mind that that most players wont know what the hell its all about if they dont read CM.
On the other side VS have to protect their business and have to be seen to be doing everything they can to fulfil their legal obligations and
not put their UK licence at risk.
In their position I would do what has not been done, namely contact all the UK players and explain what it is all about and what actions
they may have to take and why.

 

[KasinoKing]

Hi KasinoKing,

Have had the Payment team look at this for you and all should have been approved for you.

Br,Daniel

Thanks!

Unfortunately I STILL can't deposit with the debit card I used with you guys for the last 2-3 years (Works OK at other casinos)

KK

 

[Dan.Videoslots]

Thanks!

Unfortunately I STILL can't deposit with the debit card I used with you guys for the last 2-3 years (Works OK at other casinos)

View attachment 87785

KK

Hi KasinoKing,

I will investigate this for you and contact you via PM

Br,

Daniel.

 

[chris87]

Hi all,

We have been listening your feedback and we will today release a new pop-up window that every player from UK will get the first time they start a game. This window will ask for occupation and also ask how much the player feel they can afford to lose over a month. This will then set a monthly loss limit for the player.

This popup window will reduce amount of emails sent out regarding Deceleration of SoW and Proof of SoW and we hope that this will improve the player journey now with the new requirements.

Br,

Daniel

But VS have already decided what I can afford to lose. Does this mean I can now decide? Does this comply with the regulations?

Not sure where I go next with this Dan. Perhaps you could PM me when you get chance.

Thanks- Chris

 

[brianmon]

Hi all,

We have been listening your feedback and we will today release a new pop-up window that every player from UK will get the first time they start a game. This window will ask for occupation and also ask how much the player feel they can afford to lose over a month. This will then set a monthly loss limit for the player.

This popup window will reduce amount of emails sent out regarding Deceleration of SoW and Proof of SoW and we hope that this will improve the player journey now with the new requirements.

Br,

Daniel

Is that how much a player feels they can lose overall, between all the casinos they may play at, or just at VideoSlots?
My deposits at VideoSlots vary quite a lot, but they're actually quite a small proportion of my overall deposits between all casinos.

 

[Dan.Videoslots]

Hi Chris87,

It will only change instantly if you choose a limit that is lower that have been set by Videoslots in this case an example is if the limit is £500 and you feel you can lose £400 then the new limit will be £400.

@brianmon this is a limit that you feel you can lose at Videoslots.

Br,

Daniel

 

[bebo67]

I dont think they are asking for everything on the list, only the one that applies to the person. Black out what doesnt need to be shared. You guys are so smart and would tell anyone else this. What is really the fear? Is everyone afraid that they really can't afford to gamble? I don't mean to ask that in a bad way, but is it? Or is it the fact of someone else telling you that you can't? I could not afford what I was spending and lowered mine a couple of months ago, and am glad that I did. If you get asked, pick out the one that applies to you, black out your social security numbers, address etc. VS has most of that anyways. They have my bank info, phone number, address and I'm still here to type about it. lol

 

[EnglishGuy]

You're not going to get out of AML regulations by leaving the EU.

The UKGC is just implementing EU rules on money laundering, from what i can see. That still doesn't give VS the right to ask for bank statements in my book.

 

[Lincolnuk]

Hi all,

We have been listening your feedback and we will today release a new pop-up window that every player from UK will get the first time they start a game. This window will ask for occupation and also ask how much the player feel they can afford to lose over a month. This will then set a monthly loss limit for the player.

This popup window will reduce amount of emails sent out regarding Deceleration of SoW and Proof of SoW and we hope that this will improve the player journey now with the new requirements.

Br,

Daniel

Hi, just to clarify. Im guessing once the loss amount is reached would this lock the depositing system for that period, or trigger a SOW which on acceptance unlocks this.

Also out of interest in players like my possition, I don't work due to leukemia but do still receive sick,tax credits. so one thing i don't have is a lot of income but the one thing i do have is a strict and well maintained budget. but how would this go on a SOW.

 

[EnglishGuy]

You guys are so smart and would tell anyone else this.

Err. no.. i wouldn't..

 

[Dan.Videoslots]

Hi Colinsunderland,

Its quite easy to have your own interpretation of what the text says, that is how it is written. But in the end, we have to follow UKGC´s interpretation.
UKGC gave out a lot of fines last year to companies that had a different interpretation than to them.


Br,


Daniel

 

[b3b44]

Hi b3b44,

Have checked your account and all looks in order. If you have any more issues please contact me via PM and will have a look at what I can do.

Br,

Daniel.

maybe its because i have already sent my banking details Dan

 

[interlog]

Hi all,

We have been listening your feedback and we will today release a new pop-up window that every player from UK will get the first time they start a game. This window will ask for occupation and also ask how much the player feel they can afford to lose over a month. This will then set a monthly loss limit for the player.

This popup window will reduce amount of emails sent out regarding Deceleration of SoW and Proof of SoW and we hope that this will improve the player journey.

Br,

Daniel

But that is a responsible gambling issue and not anti money laundering issue.

Remember that the guidance given by the UKGC does not state a money threshold at all.

The issue that I have is that the documents were requested because of anti money laundering regulations, not because of responsible gambling.

My play has not differs at all from when I completed the simple form last year. I deposit and hope to get as much play time as possible from that money.

Now, if I only played my deposits through one time and withdraw whatever is left, or play roulette covering most of the table etc. then I can see why you may be suspicious. And isn't that, the suspicion, that should trigger such SOW request?

I have some free spins to play out that I won in some battle and have race money and cashback coming in next week. What is going to happen with that money if I refuse to supply the documents? I can't withdraw it.

 

[Steviedoo]

I’m not from the uk...and I was asked months ago to fill out a source of wealth form at VS.....so Is this for uk people only or everyone

 

[chris87]

But that is a responsible gambling issue and not anti money laundering issue.

Remember that the guidance given by the UKGC does not state a money threshold at all.

The issue that I have is that the documents were requested because of anti money laundering regulations, not because of responsible gambling.

My play has not differs at all from when I completed the simple form last year. I deposit and hope to get as much play time as possible from that money.

Now, if I only played my deposits through one time and withdraw whatever is left, or play roulette covering most of the table etc. then I can see why you may be suspicious. And isn't that, the suspicion, that should trigger such SOW request?

I have some free spins to play out that I won in some battle and have race money and cashback coming in next week. What is going to happen with that money if I refuse to supply the documents? I can't withdraw it.

Agreed, the situation is far from clear.

Chris

 

[dunover]

What if you're a prostitute or rent boy and only deal in cash?

 

[shadow123]

lol lets keep this out the gutter

 

[greylady]

What if you're a prostitute or rent boy and only deal in cash?

.....or a drug dealer

 

[colinsunderland]

Hi Colinsunderland,

Its quite easy to have your own interpretation of what the text says, that is how it is written. But in the end, we have to follow UKGC´s interpretation.
UKGC gave out a lot of fines last year to companies that had a different interpretation than to them.


Br,


Daniel

Almost every one of my comments have been based on the UKGC guidance or other documents available on the UKGC website. Feel free to point out any part of my comments you feel are wrong so I can either educate myself on what I've got wrong and apologise, or at least see & understand for myself why you think I am wrong.

I do know you shouldn't be blanket requesting documents under anti money laundering laws, especially if you require them for RG issues.

You are asking for things like wills and probate forms, and don't think people are going to think you are asking for too much?

How come you completely ignored the question about how secure and safe the storage is of all this extra data you are gathering. Its a lot more than a copy of a driving license and utility bill.

Also, the pop up you mention, as is mentioned above, would surely only relate to the responsible gaming side, all the emails people have been getting are the AML requests, so how will that pop up slow AML emails down?

Thank you for doing something though, hopefully its the first step towards getting to the right place.

Just as an aside, I have never seen a will that specifies the value of an estate, not sure outside the UK, but in the UK it is the executioner of the will that calculates the value then distributes it according to the instructions in the will.
I could write a will today, if I die in 30 years my house could be worth 3 times as much, how could the value of my estate possibly be included in my will?

 

[Dan.Videoslots]

Almost every one of my comments have been based on the UKGC guidance or other documents available on the UKGC website. Feel free to point out any part of my comments you feel are wrong so I can either educate myself on what I've got wrong and apologise, or at least see & understand for myself why you think I am wrong.

I do know you shouldn't be blanket requesting documents under anti money laundering laws, especially if you require them for RG issues.

You are asking for things like wills and probate forms, and don't think people are going to think you are asking for too much?

How come you completely ignored the question about how secure and safe the storage is of all this extra data you are gathering. Its a lot more than a copy of a driving license and utility bill.

Also, the pop up you mention, as is mentioned above, would surely only relate to the responsible gaming side, all the emails people have been getting are the AML requests, so how will that pop up slow AML emails down?

Hi Colinsunderland,

Everything is stored accordingly with data protection laws. In the list we only provide examples of documents that can be uploaded. In most cases a bank statement or payslip is enough. In rare cases we would ask for more. We are also updating our storaging accordingly with the new GDPR regulation which will come in force end of May.

It was an automatic letter sent out that has been reviewed and changed after your feedback to make it more clear that it can be both for RG or AML.

Br,

Daniel

 

[colinsunderland]

Hi Colinsunderland,

Everything is stored accordingly with data protection laws. In the list we only provide examples of documents that can be uploaded. In most cases a bank statement or payslip is enough. In rare cases we would ask for more. We are also updating our storaging accordingly with the new GDPR regulation which will come in force end of May.

It was an automatic letter sent out that has been reviewed and changed after your feedback to make it more clear that it can be both for RG or AML.

Br,

Daniel

Thats good, hopefully the new email is much less intrusive

 

[pinnit2014]

What if you're a prostitute or rent boy and only deal in cash?

Contactless payments

 

[bebo67]

What if you're a prostitute or rent boy and only deal in cash?

ol lets keep this out the gutter
Lets not and sat we did! lol.

 

[bebo67]

.....or a drug dealer

lmao. I shouldnt laugh, as I am sure we have every walks of life on here.

 

[bebo67]

Almost every one of my comments have been based on the UKGC guidance or other documents available on the UKGC website. Feel free to point out any part of my comments you feel are wrong so I can either educate myself on what I've got wrong and apologise, or at least see & understand for myself why you think I am wrong.

I do know you shouldn't be blanket requesting documents under anti money laundering laws, especially if you require them for RG issues.

You are asking for things like wills and probate forms, and don't think people are going to think you are asking for too much?

How come you completely ignored the question about how secure and safe the storage is of all this extra data you are gathering. Its a lot more than a copy of a driving license and utility bill.

Also, the pop up you mention, as is mentioned above, would surely only relate to the responsible gaming side, all the emails people have been getting are the AML requests, so how will that pop up slow AML emails down?

Thank you for doing something though, hopefully its the first step towards getting to the right place.

Just as an aside, I have never seen a will that specifies the value of an estate, not sure outside the UK, but in the UK it is the executioner of the will that calculates the value then distributes it according to the instructions in the will.
I could write a will today, if I die in 30 years my house could be worth 3 times as much, how could the value of my estate possibly be included in my will?

That brings up the question of how often this will be done? Peoples circumstances can and will change. Also does this information get shared with other casinos? Listen to me be all nosy and Im not even in the UK!

 

[interlog]

Thats good, hopefully the new email is much less intrusive

But the screen when you try to deposit still says:

Please complete the verification of your account at Videoslots to be able to proceed with your deposit.

Accordingly to EU's 4th directive, we need to establish the source of wealth you use to play with at Videoslots. Please proceed to the "My Documents" section.

So as far as I am concerned they still require this information because they have suspicion that I am laundering money.

 

[Dan.Videoslots]

But the screen when you try to deposit still says:



So as far as I am concerned they still require this information because they have suspicion that I am laundering money.

Hi Interlog,

We have now edited the text to following.

"Please complete the verification of your account at Videoslots to be able to proceed with your deposit.

Accordingly with our responsible gaming policy, to ensure a healthy gaming for our customers, we need to establish the source of wealth you use to play with at Videoslots.

Please proceed to the "My Documents" section to complete the verification process.

These checks are also done accordingly to EU's 4th directive."

Br,

Daniel

 

[Jono777]

What if you're a prostitute or rent boy and only deal in cash?

Photographic or video evidence in the workplace?? - Might drum up some extra trade as a 'side effect'

 

[shadow123]

Hi Dan

Sorry to be picky but where has the link between responsible gaming and SOW requests come from.Bearing in mind that players
are not happy about SOW,it sounds more will be requested not less if they are needed for RG as well as AML compliance

 

[ternur]

That brings up the question of how often this will be done? Peoples circumstances can and will change. Also does this information get shared with other casinos? Listen to me be all nosy and Im not even in the UK!

tl;dr It would not be wise to share this information with other casinos.

The KYC/AML/SOW/RG processes are ongoing, so if you complete a SOW once, you still might need to do it again in the future. A casino is required to monitor their clients' transactions.

From the data protection side of things, a casino is unable to legally share this information with third parties (excluding any criminal investigations and prosessing issues in some cases) without data subjects' consent. The casino asking for this information is the data controller. They may have a data processor to handle some of their data, but that processor will also be liable under GDPR for data protection noncompliance. And using a data processor in no way limits liabilities of the data controller.

 

[shadow123]

bloody minefield for everone innit

 

[interlog]

Still a little reluctant.

Say, I upload my wage slip showing £x earnings. What if my deposits have been exceeding that £x

Who makes the decision whether I can continue to play after I have submitted the documents whether that be for Responsible Gambling or Anti Money Laundering?

Do I have to post other documents showing income equal to my deposits?

 

[Jono777]

Isn't it just.

The part I don't get is that I thought these requests were to be sent out if certain 'triggers' or alarms raised by a particular player account.

As far as I understand it, these have been in place for years, the only thing that's changed is now something has to be done about it!!!!!

 

[Dan.Videoslots]

Still a little reluctant.

Say, I upload my wage slip showing £x earnings. What if my deposits have been exceeding that £x

Who makes the decision whether I can continue to play after I have submitted the documents whether that be for Responsible Gambling or Anti Money Laundering?

Do I have to post other documents showing income equal to my deposits?

Hi Interlog,

If you overspend, we would put a loss limit to the account.

Br,

Daniel

 

[Jono777]

Still a little reluctant.

Say, I upload my wage slip showing £x earnings. What if my deposits have been exceeding that £x

Who makes the decision whether I can continue to play after I have submitted the documents whether that be for Responsible Gambling or Anti Money Laundering?

Do I have to post other documents showing income equal to my deposits?

Good point. Not me personally but some players may deposit more than their wage slip shows.

LOTS of people have other (legal and genuine) income these days other than just their wages, Benefits, Cash from relatives, selling on e-bay, wins from other casinos to name just a few.

Say I earn £500 in a month and deposited this in 2 weeks at VS, yet I'd had a 1K win at Casino 'X' and my poor mother had given me £200 for my B' day as well as selling £300 worth of goods on e-bay, all under control to a degree yet I find myself unable to depo at VS for the rest of the month.

Operators will be causing a world wide shortage of paracetamol over this one for sure.