Casino Complaint Videoslots Confiscated my winning.

Theo723454

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 3, 2012
Location
Athens
Hello my name is Vasileiou Theodoros (user name Theo723454) and I would like to make a complaint for Videoslots Casino. My user name there is Theo777.

On June 9th I registered and I made my first deposit to the casino. I played slots and won 16205. After that I received an email from Videoslots. The email was :
Your account have been locked and all funds have been confiscated for breaching our terms and conditions paragraph 4.1. Your bets of €9 per spin was a significant portion of your bonus balance at several occasions.
4.1 Videoslots does not tolerate the abuse of bonuses and any bonus abuse will result in closing the Account in the Casino. Including, but not limited to, the Casino reserves the right to withhold cash ins and/or confiscating all winning from a customer when a wager of a single bet consist of the majority of the total available balance and the bonus balance contributing to a significant portion of that balance.

I asked to receive my bets’ history to understand where I violated the terms and they sent me this :
Here is an example of a bet which you made, which is more than 10% of the available balance.
*

Date Amount (EUR) Game Balance (EUR) Bonus Bet

2012-06-09 09:59:18 9 mgs_avalon 77 1

I told them that the bet of 9 is not the majority of the total available balance obviously, and they replied :
"wager of a single bet consist of the majority of the total available balance and the bonus balance contributing to a significant portion of that balance."

I asked to know how the bonus bet of 1 is contributing to a significant portion of that balance, and their final answer was :
The bet is not €1, the bet is €9. “1” is just showing that it in fact was a bonus bet, i.e you were betting the full amount of €9 with bonus money since your deposited amount was gone already.

Well I understand what they are saying about the bonus, but I didn’t play the majority of my balance so I believe that this rule is not violated.

I would like you to help me resolve this problem and receive my winning from the casino, because I believe that I haven’t violated any terms.
I am waiting for your response.
Regards.
 

mn001

Dormant Account
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
Location
Casino
If they have 10% max bet rule and you did any bet more than 10% you will never get anywhere with this.

BTW, that casino have VERY bad rules for players and I would never ever deposit with them. When I read the terms some time ago I got the feeling they did all they could to cover in ways to NOT pay players.

I feel sorry for you, next time deposit at 32red, willhill, ladbrokes or nordicbet and you will probably never have any problems again.
 

CakeKing

On a Break
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Location
Finland
If they have 10% max bet rule and you did any bet more than 10% you will never get anywhere with this.

BTW, that casino have VERY bad rules for players and I would never ever deposit with them. When I read the terms some time ago I got the feeling they did all they could to cover in ways to NOT pay players.

I feel sorry for you, next time deposit at 32red, willhill, ladbrokes or nordicbet and you will probably never have any problems again.


i always thought the 10% bet rule was about how much you deposited.



Off topic: There are plenty of other good casinos too.If you read the terms carefully and play by them you should never get into problems.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Looks like bullshit.

The casino is arranged by Quickfire powered by Microgaming.

4.1 Videoslots does not tolerate the abuse of bonuses and any bonus abuse will result in closing the Account in the Casino. Including, but not limited to, the Casino reserves the right to withhold cash ins and/or confiscating all winning from a customer when a wager of a single bet consist of the majority of the total available balance and the bonus balance contributing to a significant portion of that balance.

4.2 Videoslots shall not be liable for playing device malfunctions nor attempts by Player to participate in the Games by methods, means or ways not intended by Videoslots. Videoslots reserves the right to cancel Player's Account for any reason and issue any balance in Player's Account at the time of such cancellation.

The use of more than one bonus simultaneously is deemed the same way as a playing device malfunction, unless specifically specified that more than one bonus can be used at the same time.

4.3 Further explanation of bonus abuse: When using a signup bonus, a player starts using deposited funds from the cash balance. If the cash balance is lost player starts using the funds deposited on the bonus account. All winnings during a bonus qualification period will be forfeited if:

• the bonus money have been used in games which are not qualifying for a bonus. In some of the game categories that are bonus qualifying, there are some specific exceptions. Games which are excluded from bonus qualification categories are currently: the Video Slot “Scrooge”.
• the deposited funds have been used in games which are not qualifying for bonus prior to using the bonus money, since bonus money are intended for those wagering in bonus qualifying casino games
• a player wagers a substantial part of the funds in non bonus qualifying games, then using these funds to wager in bonus qualifying games.
• wagering more than 10% of the deposited amount in a single bet ( maximum €10 ) during a bonus qualifying game.
• wagering more than 10% of the remaining bonus amount available on your account in a single bet ( maximum €10 ) during a bonus qualifying game.
o when your bonus balance is €30 or more.
• wagering more than €3 in a single bet during a bonus qualifying game.
o when your bonus balance is €30 or less.


It is 10% of the running balance, so at every bet you have to recalculate the allowed max bet.

It's complete bullshit, as if you can wager €9 per spin to start with, it is not abuse to carry on playing at this level throughout your session.

This is simply a trap set to catch the unwary player who just wants to go and play.

Taken to it's extreme, the final spin before you bust out completely is always "abusive", even if it is 1c, as it will be 100% of the bonus balance.


This casino is supposedly set up by a "casino enthusiast" from Sweden, but can't decide whether they are licensed in Malta or Curacao (it depends on which part of the website you look at).

Unless you hit well early on, you just cannot win here as you have to lower each bet as your balance falls, and once the deposit has all gone, EVERY bet, no matter how big or small, consists of bonus funds.

An MGS casino I have never heard of, but one to be avoided. Even the name is pretty lame, so lame that Google couldn't even find it, which made me think you had the name confused with the games being offered (video slots).

It's Flash only, using the Quickfire platform, and seems to have a poker offering where players agree to pay a fine of €25,000 if they take a deal from an affiliate that exceeds 30% rakeback. Another piece of BS, since business between a player and an affiliate is none of their business, and it is the AFFILIATE that needs fining for OFFERING such deals, as it is they that have a business relationship with the operator.

I'd like to fine the casino €25,000 for having such a BS bonus term, but I have about as much chance as they would have in enforcing payment of €25000 from a poker player they kicked out for accepting too good a deal from an affiliate.


They also have the odd rule that of all the 300 games offered, the Video Slot "Scrooge" is a banned game when a bonus is in the account, very apt given their approach to players who happen to hit after several losing spins on a bet that was perfectly valid UNTIL they had almost been sucked dry by the games.
 

Theo723454

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 3, 2012
Location
Athens
Looks like bullshit.

The casino is arranged by Quickfire powered by Microgaming.

4.1 Videoslots does not tolerate the abuse of bonuses and any bonus abuse will result in closing the Account in the Casino. Including, but not limited to, the Casino reserves the right to withhold cash ins and/or confiscating all winning from a customer when a wager of a single bet consist of the majority of the total available balance and the bonus balance contributing to a significant portion of that balance.

4.2 Videoslots shall not be liable for playing device malfunctions nor attempts by Player to participate in the Games by methods, means or ways not intended by Videoslots. Videoslots reserves the right to cancel Player's Account for any reason and issue any balance in Player's Account at the time of such cancellation.

The use of more than one bonus simultaneously is deemed the same way as a playing device malfunction, unless specifically specified that more than one bonus can be used at the same time.




It is 10% of the running balance, so at every bet you have to recalculate the allowed max bet.

It's complete bullshit, as if you can wager €9 per spin to start with, it is not abuse to carry on playing at this level throughout your session.

This is simply a trap set to catch the unwary player who just wants to go and play.

Taken to it's extreme, the final spin before you bust out completely is always "abusive", even if it is 1c, as it will be 100% of the bonus balance.


This casino is supposedly set up by a "casino enthusiast" from Sweden, but can't decide whether they are licensed in Malta or Curacao (it depends on which part of the website you look at).

Unless you hit well early on, you just cannot win here as you have to lower each bet as your balance falls, and once the deposit has all gone, EVERY bet, no matter how big or small, consists of bonus funds.

An MGS casino I have never heard of, but one to be avoided. Even the name is pretty lame, so lame that Google couldn't even find it, which made me think you had the name confused with the games being offered (video slots).

It's Flash only, using the Quickfire platform, and seems to have a poker offering where players agree to pay a fine of €25,000 if they take a deal from an affiliate that exceeds 30% rakeback. Another piece of BS, since business between a player and an affiliate is none of their business, and it is the AFFILIATE that needs fining for OFFERING such deals, as it is they that have a business relationship with the operator.

I'd like to fine the casino €25,000 for having such a BS bonus term, but I have about as much chance as they would have in enforcing payment of €25000 from a poker player they kicked out for accepting too good a deal from an affiliate.


They also have the odd rule that of all the 300 games offered, the Video Slot "Scrooge" is a banned game when a bonus is in the account, very apt given their approach to players who happen to hit after several losing spins on a bet that was perfectly valid UNTIL they had almost been sucked dry by the games.

When I registered the 4.3 was this:
4.3 Further explanation of bonus abuse: When using a signup bonus, a player starts using deposited funds from the cash balance. If the cash balance is lost player starts using the funds deposited on the bonus account. All winnings during a bonus qualification period will be forfeited if:

• the bonus money have been used in games which are not qualifying for a bonus. In some of the game categories that are bonus qualifying, there are some specific exceptions. Games which are excluded from bonus qualification categories are currently: the Video Slot “Scrooge”.
• the deposited funds have been used in games which are not qualifying for bonus prior to using the bonus money, since bonus money are intended for those wagering in bonus qualifying casino games
• a player wagers a substantial part of the funds in non bonus qualifying games, then using these funds to wager in bonus qualifying games.
• wagering more than 10% of the deposited amount in a single bet ( maximum €10 ) in a bonus qualifying game.
• wagering more than 10% of the remaining bonus amount in a single bet ( maximum €10 ) in a bonus qualifying game.

They changed it 2 days after to what you have posted.

We talked about this and they say that I have violated 4.1 terms which as you can see I haven't, because I haven't placed bets more than the 10% of my deposit which also is not the majority.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
When I registered the 4.3 was this:
4.3 Further explanation of bonus abuse: When using a signup bonus, a player starts using deposited funds from the cash balance. If the cash balance is lost player starts using the funds deposited on the bonus account. All winnings during a bonus qualification period will be forfeited if:

• the bonus money have been used in games which are not qualifying for a bonus. In some of the game categories that are bonus qualifying, there are some specific exceptions. Games which are excluded from bonus qualification categories are currently: the Video Slot “Scrooge”.
• the deposited funds have been used in games which are not qualifying for bonus prior to using the bonus money, since bonus money are intended for those wagering in bonus qualifying casino games
• a player wagers a substantial part of the funds in non bonus qualifying games, then using these funds to wager in bonus qualifying games.
• wagering more than 10% of the deposited amount in a single bet ( maximum €10 ) in a bonus qualifying game.
• wagering more than 10% of the remaining bonus amount in a single bet ( maximum €10 ) in a bonus qualifying game.

They changed it 2 days after to what you have posted.

We talked about this and they say that I have violated 4.1 terms which as you can see I haven't, because I haven't placed bets more than the 10% of my deposit which also is not the majority.

Perhaps they didn't like the sheer size of your win from the welcome bonus, and decided not to pay before finding something in the terms to back it up.

Before the change, it makes even LESS sense, since all your bets will become illegal once you are down to a certain balance. They are enforcing this nonsense on SOME of your €9 bets made when the variance went against you.

You could have gone down to your last Euro, and played the whole amount on one last spin to bust out, but hit the bonus round and then ended up with a big balance from further play. Technically, they could confiscate the lot because you should have bet only 10c, and then only 9c, then 8c and so on till you bust out.

A properly run casino would not have such nonsense, but would have a clear max bet rule that could be calculated from the starting balance, and applied throughout the bonus qualifying session.

Their lack of understanding is also demonstrated by their irrational exclusion of ONE game (Scrooge), yet NOT excluding other games that are similar in nature, such as Wealth Spa, Tomb Raider II, etc.

Excluding random slots from play with a slots bonus only adds to the confusion faced by players, who want simple rules like slots bonuses being for slots, and thus any slot game offered being OK to play.

It is unusual to see this kind of muddle with a Microgaming casino, as it is more common with the rogue, mainly RTG, casinos that offer high bonuses, but a labyrinth of terms and conditions that can trip up the unwary player, and offer plenty of leeway when they decide they just don't want to pay.

I expect they don't think a player who wins 16K from the welcome bonus will ever be back, so would rather not pay out if they can find reason not to.

I bet they would have paid without quibble had you made WR and ended up withdrawing €50 as half your initial deposit back. They would probably have paid and then offered you another nice bonus in the hope of getting the other €50 off you, along with some fresh money.

Had you hit the big win from your first €9 spin, they would have no way to argue that you broke section 4 unless they used the "F U Clause" to argue that you didn't play for "entertainment" or some similar BS.
 

LaHutti

Sr. ÜberUnter Ass. Man.
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Location
East and West
Well, since they apparently change their terms as they see fit, the "excluded slot" rule....at this time Scrooge, could be changed, or have any slot added by them, at any time.
Would be interesting to hear, if anyone ever got paid by this outfit.
Terms like theirs should be more than enough to qualify them for the pit imo.
 

Seventh777

RIP Roy
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Location
Planet Tharg, dark side, where nothing grows.
I`ll stake a penny to a pound that the "Excluded slot" comes into force when someone has managed the w/r using real cash, and changed to suit Ie. any slot that the player has just played whilst making the w/r.

Who the fck and what protocols are in force when these new casino`s are vetted by MGS is beyond me, don`t they ever pay a visit to a new casino whose licence they recently endorsed, to check up on their basic working ethics etcetera and monitor accordingly.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I`ll stake a penny to a pound that the "Excluded slot" comes into force when someone has managed the w/r using real cash, and changed to suit Ie. any slot that the player has just played whilst making the w/r.

Who the fck and what protocols are in force when these new casino`s are vetted by MGS is beyond me, don`t they ever pay a visit to a new casino whose licence they recently endorsed, to check up on their basic working ethics etcetera and monitor accordingly.

Although illogical, it is the most logical explanation. I would expect the term to change to "Excluded games; Scrooge, Avalon" by the end of the month.
 

hakapuku

Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr
Joined
Aug 29, 2006
Location
UA
This player must be paid or this casino must be rogued.
 

azzy

Dormant Account
Joined
Jun 14, 2011
Location
finland
If they have 10% max bet rule and you did any bet more than 10% you will never get anywhere with this.

BTW, that casino have VERY bad rules for players and I would never ever deposit with them. When I read the terms some time ago I got the feeling they did all they could to cover in ways to NOT pay players.

I feel sorry for you, next time deposit at 32red, willhill, ladbrokes or nordicbet and you will probably never have any problems again.

Also 32red has max bet rule.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
The max bet rule is not the problem, and in this respect, and in how other casinos interpret it, the OP didn't break it. He got €100 bonus, and bet €9, which is 9% of the bonus.

Since the last case, it seems this casino have changed their terms frequently, and maybe as a means to again wriggle out of paying a big win. The last case also shows deceit, the fraudulent display of an eCogra seal, and changing the terms AFTER the fact in order to back up a decision to confiscate a big win.

No doubt, some lucky sod hit the Jackpot on Scrooge between January and now, so they slipped that exclusion in, as no doubt they will sneak Avalon in as an excluded game now.

A well run casino would not have to constantly tinker with the terms like this, as the original 10% max bet rule is more than enough to start with, and far more restrictive than the norm, which is 25% to 30%.

Have they ditched the fraudulent eCogra seal yet?

I thought I had never heard of them, but it seems I have. It just shows how memorable their name is:rolleyes:

Try getting the CEO involved again. This is what it took back in January for that complainant to get paid.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
32Red had/have a max bet rule when they were offering the largest MGS NDB of 32 credits out there, which was roughly 20% 6.25 iirc.


It's still there, but it is a fixed 6.25 - they don't change it just because you have a big hit at 6 when your balance has almost been decimated on an unforgiving game in order to void a win from a "miracle" recovery almost at the point of busting out. Neither do they change the terms every time a player gets lucky and they have to pay out, else all the AWP games at 32Red would long since have been excluded from bonus play. Spin Palace would be excluding Munchkins, and GNUF would be excluding all the slots in my favourites.
 
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