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US political crisis

Nowunimportant said:
If you're on the right you're blaming Biden for inflation & everything else. If you're on the left you're blaming trump for leaving the country in such a mess.

All the while nothing ever gets done because the two sides are too busy blaming each other.?‍♂️
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Weren't things better under Trump?
 
It's not even close, Inflation, Border, Crime all up, up, up under the current administration.

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Not to mention some law clerk leaking the SCOTUS draft on the controversial abortion issue (roe v. wade), will the riots start?


 
sufferinsilence said:


They've gone absolutely insane.
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You would think the side wanting less abortions would be all for contraceptives and education being available, since that is the best way to lower the amount of abortions being performed, but weirdly enough they hate those things too.

Nobody is pro-abortion, which becomes clear when you see that the same people being accused of being pro-abortion are the ones that want contraceptives and education to be available.
Nobody that was pro-abortion would support those things because they drastically reduce how many people are having abortions.
Imo its not Pro-abortion vs anti-abortion, its pro-choice vs anti-choice.
 
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As it'll be state by state I can't see that it is the end of the world, you'll still be able to get an abortion in a liberal run state, but agree banning contraception methods doesn't make any sense.

Just looking at the abortion rate and slightly surprised, by population, sweden had a larger number performed than the US. [2016 figures]
 
mack341 said:
As it'll be state by state I can't see that it is the end of the world, you'll still be able to get an abortion in a liberal run state, but agree banning contraception methods doesn't make any sense.

Just looking at the abortion rate and slightly surprised, by population, sweden had a larger number performed than the US. [2016 figures]
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I saw some states are looking into making it illegal to travel to another state to have an abortion.
Not sure how they would be able to enforce something like that tho.
Personally i think that making abortions illegal wont stop people from having abortions, it will only stop people from having safe abortions.
I would also imagine the extreme positions taken by some politicians/states will lose GOP alot of votes.

Tried googling 'abortion rates by country' and going by the first result that supposedly is showing 2022 data we are slightly below USA, but not by much.
And as always we are doing worse than our neighboring countries, Finland not visible on the screenshot but they were at 11.1 (per 1000 women annually)


7.png
 
Kroffe said:
I saw some states are looking into making it illegal to travel to another state to have an abortion.
Not sure how they would be able to enforce something like that tho.
Personally i think that making abortions illegal wont stop people from having abortions, it will only stop people from having safe abortions.
I would also imagine the extreme positions taken by some politicians/states will lose GOP alot of votes.

Tried googling 'abortion rates by country' and going by the first result that supposedly is showing 2022 data we are slightly below USA, but not by much.
And as always we are doing worse than our neighboring countries, Finland not visible on the screenshot but they were at 11.1 (per 1000 women annually)


View attachment 167681
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We're quite high up and I can't remember it ever coming up in political debates or the newspapers, a settled subject I guess. If england outlawed it though [unlikely] wales and scotland would go their own way and allow it.

I woudn't be in favour of a republican supreme court forcing democrat states to ban it, I think that is the issue, forcing a decision that's unpopular with the majority in a state either way.

I think italy or malta banned citizens from getting an abortion elsewhere iirc, I think that's going too far. Someone posted a pic on twitter of an aborted baby, it made me feel sick, I quickly looked away but still saw it, like something out of a horror film.

There was a story from the uk where hospitals incinerated aborted babies to heat the hospital, just can't believe some things that go on in this world, very dark.
 
mack341 said:
We're quite high up and I can't remember it ever coming up in political debates or the newspapers, a settled subject I guess. If england outlawed it though [unlikely] wales and scotland would go their own way and allow it.

I woudn't be in favour of a republican supreme court forcing democrat states to ban it, I think that is the issue, forcing a decision that's unpopular with the majority in a state either way.

I think italy or malta banned citizens from getting an abortion elsewhere iirc, I think that's going too far. Someone posted a pic on twitter of an aborted baby, it made me feel sick, I quickly looked away but still saw it, like something out of a horror film.

There was a story from the uk where hospitals incinerated aborted babies to heat the hospital, just can't believe some things that go on in this world, very dark.
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Its a very touchy subject.
If you ask 100 people 'when does life begin' you will get alot of different answers/definitions.
 
mack341 said:
We're quite high up and I can't remember it ever coming up in political debates or the newspapers, a settled subject I guess. If england outlawed it though [unlikely] wales and scotland would go their own way and allow it.

I woudn't be in favour of a republican supreme court forcing democrat states to ban it, I think that is the issue, forcing a decision that's unpopular with the majority in a state either way.

I think italy or malta banned citizens from getting an abortion elsewhere iirc, I think that's going too far. Someone posted a pic on twitter of an aborted baby, it made me feel sick, I quickly looked away but still saw it, like something out of a horror film.

There was a story from the uk where hospitals incinerated aborted babies to heat the hospital, just can't believe some things that go on in this world, very dark.
Click to expand...

Thing is that if R states ban both contraception and abortion there will be a humongous rise in unwanted (teen) pregnancies. Now if they can't even get an abortion out of state there'll be "underground" clinics again where the chance of women dying while getting an abortion are a shitload higher than when done by a doctor in a professional setting.

And then I haven't even touched on the fact when the decision is made to keep the baby. Will they give the child up for adoption or will it perhaps suffer mental and/or physical abuse because it's unwanted? What about the mothers (or parents) mental wellbeing?

For a party that's all about freedom this is just all very strange.
 
mack341 said:
Just looking at the abortion rate and slightly surprised, by population, sweden had a larger number performed than the US. [2016 figures]
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Statistics are always interesting, but without context can be relatively meaningless.

In the chart presented by Kroffe, I was surprised to see Australia listed 3rd, bearing in mind the size of our population, and how it is not that easy to get an abortion, depending on the State in question.

I was also quite surprised to see the USA at the top, as religious extremists, who are usually by definition against women's rights, hold quite a bit of influence in many states.

Not so much Sweden, as it is known as a liberal country.


So why do some countries have high abortion rates?

More sexual freedom leading to unwanted pregnancies?

Many couples not being in either a financial or emotional position to have a child?

Women abandoned by their partners when a pregnancy is confirmed?

Women placing careers before children?

Lack of stigma attacked to abortion?

Too many children in the family already?

Abortions being used as birth control?

The assumption is: Abortions are relatively freely available in the first place.


In countries with lower abortion rates:

Contraception not freely available?

Contraception freely available and widely used?

Sex is only for procreation?

A repressive/restrictive society for women?

Religious beliefs?

Abortions difficult to obtain?


If Roe vs Wade is overturned in the USA, and some of those other laws are implemented, then I fear the USA is going to turn in a modern-day version of The Handmaid's Tale.
 
ladyhawke said:
Statistics are always interesting, but without context can be relatively meaningless.

In the chart presented by Kroffe, I was surprised to see Australia listed 3rd, bearing in mind the size of our population, and how it is not that easy to get an abortion, depending on the State in question.

I was also quite surprised to see the USA at the top, as religious extremists, who are usually by definition against women's rights, hold quite a bit of influence in many states.

Not so much Sweden, as it is known as a liberal country.


So why do some countries have high abortion rates?

More sexual freedom leading to unwanted pregnancies?

Many couples not being in either a financial or emotional position to have a child?

Women abandoned by their partners when a pregnancy is confirmed?

Women placing careers before children?

Lack of stigma attacked to abortion?

Too many children in the family already?

Abortions being used as birth control?

The assumption is: Abortions are relatively freely available in the first place.


In countries with lower abortion rates:

Contraception not freely available?

Contraception freely available and widely used?

Sex is only for procreation?

A repressive/restrictive society for women?

Religious beliefs?

Abortions difficult to obtain?


If Roe vs Wade is overturned in the USA, and some of those other laws are implemented, then I fear the USA is going to turn in a modern-day version of The Handmaid's Tale.
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My bad, the list did not start there.
I just scrolled down so i could include our neighbours Norway&Denmark

This is from the top. (this is the site i looked at:
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)

1.png
 
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ladyhawke said:
Statistics are always interesting, but without context can be relatively meaningless.

In the chart presented by Kroffe, I was surprised to see Australia listed 3rd, bearing in mind the size of our population, and how it is not that easy to get an abortion, depending on the State in question.

I was also quite surprised to see the USA at the top, as religious extremists, who are usually by definition against women's rights, hold quite a bit of influence in many states.

Not so much Sweden, as it is known as a liberal country.


So why do some countries have high abortion rates?

More sexual freedom leading to unwanted pregnancies?

Many couples not being in either a financial or emotional position to have a child?

Women abandoned by their partners when a pregnancy is confirmed?

Women placing careers before children?

Lack of stigma attacked to abortion?

Too many children in the family already?

Abortions being used as birth control?

The assumption is: Abortions are relatively freely available in the first place.


In countries with lower abortion rates:

Contraception not freely available?

Contraception freely available and widely used?

Sex is only for procreation?

A repressive/restrictive society for women?

Religious beliefs?

Abortions difficult to obtain?


If Roe vs Wade is overturned in the USA, and some of those other laws are implemented, then I fear the USA is going to turn in a modern-day version of The Handmaid's Tale.
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I don't think I've read that book but I did rent out the vhs 1990 film thinking it might be a bit raunchy, it was probably a great film but I was too busy skipping through...I do remember robert duvall as the bad guy but that's about it :oops:

I don't know all the aspects of this issue; I'm a conservative who's just going by my gut instinct on right and wrong really.

It is a moral mindfield. But if conservative states decide they don't want it going on under their roof as it were, that should be respected, it's part of democracy. The US is a union of states, different to individual nations that have 1 rule for all.
 
sufferinsilence said:
Thing is that if R states ban both contraception and abortion there will be a humongous rise in unwanted (teen) pregnancies. Now if they can't even get an abortion out of state there'll be "underground" clinics again where the chance of women dying while getting an abortion are a shitload higher than when done by a doctor in a professional setting.

And then I haven't even touched on the fact when the decision is made to keep the baby. Will they give the child up for adoption or will it perhaps suffer mental and/or physical abuse because it's unwanted? What about the mothers (or parents) mental wellbeing?

For a party that's all about freedom this is just all very strange.
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I am beginning to believe that many men simply do not understand that quite a few - if not most - women do NOT come through a pregnancy physically unscathed. Or in the worst case, mentally unscathed, e.g. postpartum depression.

But this is what they want to force women of all ages who, for whatever reason have an unwanted pregnancy, to endure.

These draconian anti-abortion laws will turn a drought of babies available for adoption into a veritable deluge, so will supporters of these laws also offer their support to the thousands and thousands of unwanted babies that will, in all probability, linger unwanted in orphanages for the rest of their youth?

There seems to be a rosy-coloured view that if a woman is forced to have an unwanted baby, irrespective of the circumstances, she will love it and keep it anyways. That is so far from the truth it is laughable.
 
Kroffe said:
My bad, the list did not start there.
I just scrolled down so i could include our neighbours Norway&Denmark

This is from the top. (this is the site i looked at:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
)

View attachment 167686
Click to expand...
I would've thought Russia being number 1 in abortions would be enough to put off lots of americans; interesting the leading countries were all communist in recent history.
 
mack341 said:
I would've thought Russia being number 1 in abortions would be enough to put off lots of americans; interesting the leading countries were all communist in recent history.
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Could that have anything to do with the lower standard of living in these countries? In Russia, if you are not one of the elite, you are more than likely to be desperately poor.
 
ladyhawke said:
Could that have anything to do with the lower standard of living in these countries? In Russia, if you are not one of the elite, you are more than likely to be desperately poor.
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True, also perhaps lack of free contraception, if you don't see a future for yourself [scraping by etc..] then hard to want to bring a baby into that situation.

I get the sense in the US they've basically had an abortion free for all, late and for shallow type reasons...'oh I don't fancy it now' or I've broken up with billyboy, that's got conservative backs up over the years, and irresponsible types that will have multiple abortions, that could be my misinterpretation, but also some of the protesters give off a bad vibe, screeching manically like toddlers who can't get their own way.
 
slotplayer said:
It's not even close, Inflation, Border, Crime all up, up, up under the current administration.

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Not to mention some law clerk leaking the SCOTUS draft on the controversial abortion issue (roe v. wade), will the riots start?


Click to expand...


Perhaps we should focus on creating solutions instead of spending all of our time blaming one another.

I'm talking about the country in general not specifically you btw
 
mack341 said:
True, also perhaps lack of free contraception, if you don't see a future for yourself [scraping by etc..] then hard to want to bring a baby into that situation.

I get the sense in the US they've basically had an abortion free for all, late and for shallow type reasons...'oh I don't fancy it now' or I've broken up with billyboy, that's got conservative backs up over the years, and irresponsible types that will have multiple abortions, that could be my misinterpretation, but also some of the protesters give off a bad vibe, screeching manically like toddlers who can't get their own way.
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At first glance I didn't think US at the top of the list was right, its still a somewhat conservative country. Mexico has the least so I'm not so sure its purely based on economic conditions.
 
slotplayer said:
I knew they were devoted Catholics but did not know the abortion policy.
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Yea it also seems like they're moving away from being so religious with each new generation.

I know abortions are a touchy subject here but they should've legalized them over there a long time ago, unless your family has money it's definitely not a place you want to bring a baby into.
 
mack341 said:
This thread has been quiet so long I feel silly posting but this is possibly of interest, I presume Macron is the leader in question..

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Well it wouldn't be Boris Johnson as we know he goes for the 6-points 100%, plenty of kids and exes to prove it. 100/1

Wouldn't be Joey Biden as he'd keel over with the effort. 80/1

Olaf Scholz - possibly, he left the Lutherian church at 18, is married but could be a Schofield cover. 25/1

Fumio Kishida - had an arranged marriage when younger, slight possibility but being in Japan unlikely. 66/1

Mario Draghi - married again, but hard-core Catholic so could have pervy priest tendencies. 20/1

Justin Trudeau - lapsed Catholic, only experienced one woman allegedly, childhood sweetheart so could be 'self discovering'. 10/1

Emmanuel Macron - this I agree is the most likely back-door artist of the G7 leaders. He met his missus when he was 15 and her 39 FFS!! She has kids, he has none of his own. Being as he's only 44, he's now officially a gerontophiliac as he's rogering (still?) a now 68-year old! So has he secretly gone for the 4-points? 7/2
 
Kroffe said:
Too much religion mixed in for me, but he did make one very important and true point, im sure @ternur agrees.

(Timestamped)
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Yes, I am not a fan of religion when it has become extreme, exclusive and divisive, and I don't believe in god, but some religious beliefs and guidelines are conducive towards a happy society. Love thy neighbour, forgiveness and understanding etc.

I thought Tuckers speech was quite inspiring, and a good assessment of the breakdown of democracy and objective discussion that I could not disagree with.
 
Shame Murdoch settled the court case with Dominion last minute and seeing Carlson and Hannity on the stand, arses twitching.

Speaking of Heritage: don't know if anyone (not many would have), heard Liz Truss's speech a few weeks ago at it in DC - was pretty bat shit (though she made some good points re Russia then spoiled it as Liz does/did with some weird prattling on about wokeness )

Agree with you Bambi though on Objective discussion - there is none. It's all opinion. Yet, passed over as fact or something irrefutable.
 
pinnit2014 said:
Shame Murdoch settled the court case with Dominion last minute and seeing Carlson and Hannity on the stand, arses twitching.

Speaking of Heritage: don't know if anyone (not many would have), heard Liz Truss's speech a few weeks ago at it in DC - was pretty bat shit (though she made some good points re Russia then spoiled it as Liz does/did with some weird prattling on about wokeness )

Agree with you Bambi though on Objective discussion - there is none. It's all opinion. Yet, passed over as fact or something irrefutable.
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The money spent on lobbying and conflicts of interest due to investment has grown so influential it has almost reached the point of extortion.

Was wondering earlier about the potential of an AI-operated government, in charge of passing laws through a majority vote and the distribution of taxes through blockchain technology. Sounds crazy, but wondered how incorruptible and efficient such a system would be. AI for PM!
 
bamberfishcake said:
The money spent on lobbying and conflicts of interest due to investment has grown so influential it has almost reached the point of extortion.

Was wondering earlier about the potential of an AI-operated government, in charge of passing laws through a majority vote and the distribution of taxes through blockchain technology. Sounds crazy, but wondered how incorruptible and efficient such a system would be. AI for PM!
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Lobbying is just bribery by another name, unless i'm wildly wrong in thinking that. Laws not passed in the best interests of the public but by who pays the most? Nuts.

AI is only going to be as 'ethical' as those who it learns from and, er right now, we're heading for a Terminator-esque showdown :laugh:
 
I am I the only one who has just stopped pissing myself laughing at Biden congratulating the Ireland rugby team recently for 'beating the Black & Tans'??? :laugh::laugh: Even Ricky Gervais couldn't rise to that level of butt-clenching cringeworthiness in his comedies.

Perhaps he'll arrange a rugby 'friendly' between a Sinn Fein and Paratroop Regiment XV at Croke Park. :laugh:

Joking aside, I'm still convinced Biden isn't alive and is being operated by electrical pulses via a box hidden on his back under his jacket, controlled remotely by his aides.
 
bamberfishcake said:
Yes, I am not a fan of religion when it has become extreme, exclusive and divisive, and I don't believe in god, but some religious beliefs and guidelines are conducive towards a happy society. Love thy neighbour, forgiveness and understanding etc.

I thought Tuckers speech was quite inspiring, and a good assessment of the breakdown of democracy and objective discus,sion that I could not disagree with.
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For me that has never been about religion, imo you see just as much hate/bad things as you see love/good things coming from religion and religious people.
We should be able to embody/teach the good values from religions without bringing religion into it.
I think its the same as with many other things, religion is good in theory but people are bastard coated bastards with bastard filling so it does not work in practice.

Also there are like 4000+ religions around the world and almost all of them have 'If you believe in any other deity apart from this one you will burn i hell' included in their T&C:s
Makes online casinos T&C:s look tame in comparison, if you break their rules you just lose your deposit but at least you dont have to suffer eternal damnation in hell.

h.gif
 
dunover said:
I am I the only one who has just stopped pissing myself laughing at Biden congratulating the Ireland rugby team recently for 'beating the Black & Tans'??? :laugh::laugh: Even Ricky Gervais couldn't rise to that level of butt-clenching cringeworthiness in his comedies.

Perhaps he'll arrange a rugby 'friendly' between a Sinn Fein and Paratroop Regiment XV at Croke Park. :laugh:

Joking aside, I'm still convinced Biden isn't alive and is being operated by electrical pulses via a box hidden on his back under his jacket, controlled remotely by his aides.
Click to expand...
y.gif


But then again, it might be true.

 
dunover said:
I am I the only one who has just stopped pissing myself laughing at Biden congratulating the Ireland rugby team recently for 'beating the Black & Tans'??? :laugh::laugh: Even Ricky Gervais couldn't rise to that level of butt-clenching cringeworthiness in his comedies.

Perhaps he'll arrange a rugby 'friendly' between a Sinn Fein and Paratroop Regiment XV at Croke Park. :laugh:

Joking aside, I'm still convinced Biden isn't alive and is being operated by electrical pulses via a box hidden on his back under his jacket, controlled remotely by his aides.
Click to expand...

Did you see the snapshot of his prompt cards? Had 'You' at the top of a list of people in attendance :)

Unfit to rule himself I am afraid, let alone the most influential government in the world. I reckon they wheel him back at the end of the day, sit him in his favourite chair with a blanket and cup of cocoa and secret juice to prepare him for the following days action. A comedy tv series about the team behind Biden would be a hit.
 
bamberfishcake said:
Did you see the snapshot of his prompt cards? Had 'You' at the top of a list of people in attendance :)

Unfit to rule himself I am afraid, let alone the most influential government in the world. I reckon they wheel him back at the end of the day, sit him in his favourite chair with a blanket and cup of cocoa and secret juice to prepare him for the following days action. A comedy tv series about the team behind Biden would be a hit.
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You forgot the Werther's Originals, the real reason Air Force One lands in the UK or Ireland.
 
pinnit2014 said:
Lobbying is just bribery by another name, unless i'm wildly wrong in thinking that. Laws not passed in the best interests of the public but by who pays the most? Nuts.

AI is only going to be as 'ethical' as those who it learns from and, er right now, we're heading for a Terminator-esque showdown :laugh:
Click to expand...
I think AI will change the world dramatically and very quickly unless controlled, and dare I say it, regulated in some way.

If the parameters were set accordingly though, I cant see how a human could do the democratic process better. Greed is, arguably, our biggest downfall as a species, and invites us to tread over others for personal gains. AI is impervious to greed unless it is programmed to behave that way.
 

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