Cause it it is idiots from all sides taking advantage of the situation, simple as that
US political crisis
- Thread starter The Dude
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Cause it it is idiots from all sides taking advantage of the situation, simple as that
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But it makes no sense blaming peaceful protesters for the crimes committed, right?
You cant blame the peaceful protesters in blm any more than you can blame the people who were peacefully protesting outside the capitol building.
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It's the condoning side, complicity, I highly doubt if parts of sweden were getting torched and shops ransacked, you'd want to be anywhere near it even if you wanted to make a political protest.
edit: I don't think the BLM organistion, the people who run it, abide much by the idea of peaceful protests, they'll justify whatever they think is necessary to obtain their goals.
Strictly speaking I would't blame peaceful protesters, but common sense and proportionality must come into play once you start seeing the burning of buildings and violence, looting going on around you, it's time to go home.
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I dont think the peaceful blm protesters were condoning the looting any more than the peaceful protesters in the capitol were condoning the murder of the policeman that happened.
Why would they?
Or are you saying everyone is complicit just by being there?
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After the first night yes, and as each day goes by with more violence and mayhem, more so. Alternatively if the peaceful element had restricted themselves to daylight protests and away from businesses and property, shops etc..it might have been better? Some no doubt did that, sure I saw quite a few gatherings of that type, making speeches, holding a minute silence etc...
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Well we have to agree to disagree.
Imo thats like saying every Trump supporter attending a rally after the first one is complicit in and condoning what the proud boys & Qanon crazys do just because they also attend his rallies.
I dont think it makes sense to think that way.
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But you are conveniently forgetting or downplaying the consequences, and time and place, other than this capitol hill riot, there have been no buildings burned and shops looted at the same time as trumps rallies were taking place?
There will always be fights breaking out between different political groups, but this is an order of magnitude beyond that [the disorder which happened in the summer]
I don't know much about the proud boys, when they started, but is it a surprise with antifa and blm gangs indulging in violence against citizens, an opposing organised group didn't appear?
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It was more to point out that you cant say people that are peacefully protesting are condoning or complicit with crimes commited.
Just make a search for violence connected to trump rallies and you will get about a million hits spanning these last 4 years.
By your logic, everyone attending a Trump-rally is condoning and complicit with that violence, but i dont agree.
White supremacy groups have been around in USA far longer than BLM has, no?
So instead of thinking the newly formed white supremacy group is an answer to BLM, im more inclined to believe its the other way around.
Antifa has probably been around a long time, but have gained more traction these last couple of years with the increase in white supremacists.
Imo Trump has been breeding extremists on both side of the political spectrum, far right and far left.
His politics have been very divisive, with a "us vs them" theme.
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But now its time to pump some iron, and then make dinner.
sausage gif #2
I had a weird video about the capitol in my recommended section, and the tiny doors reminded me of the great movie Being John Malkovich.
So i may or may not return later, that depends on if Being John Malkovich is as good as i remember.
Lets be honest, Watching a movie is more fun than discussing politics.
sausage gif #2
I had a weird video about the capitol in my recommended section, and the tiny doors reminded me of the great movie Being John Malkovich.
So i may or may not return later, that depends on if Being John Malkovich is as good as i remember.
Lets be honest, Watching a movie is more fun than discussing politics.
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condoning and complicit: I could probably drag up dozens of quotes from the media, politicians and activists indicating 'condoning' regarding the attacks on property, complicit in terms of being an enabler rather than a deliberate accomplice, crowds of protesters going out at night into business and shopping districts provided cover for crime. They'd have to be really dumb and stupid not to realise that after the first night.
For me it is too much of a stretch to attribute attending a trump rally with making it possible/being responsible for proudboys fighting groups they oppose, the trump rallies will probably end now soon, but I bet violence between proudboys and antifa protesters will still occur.
The democrats have the WH power now, maybe there will be less tolerance of any political groups and street protests, a bit of a clamp down, biden's crime rhetoric from years gone by would tell me he doesn't approve of last summer's disorder.
A search of the internet, dominated by liberal msm hit pieces on trump, doesn't hold much weight with me in terms of independent, fair reporting/opinion, its motivated to push identity politics and create division, otherwise why is the US so explosive and divided now after all the years of equality laws and work in that direction, because a narrative has been cast out to increase tensions despite all the measures.
I also think that we need to look at the context around these events:
BLM, George Floyd is killed by a police officer, people take to the streets to protest. Protest should always be peaceful, no need for the looting or any violence that followed, including the two murders committed by a " patriot " who took up his arms to protect the streets from the protesters after heeding the call.
Capitol Hill storming, a potential uprising to try and forcibly change the fair results of a free election, an election which everyone, with the exception of Donald Trump and his minions, agrees that there was minimal fraud, and definitely not enough fraud to change the election.
Republican governors and election officials agree, Trump appointed officials on the election oversight boards agree, the SCOTUS agree, and every state court that Trump has taken his lies to has agreed. No injustice, no murder, nothing except a fair election which was won by the Democrat candidate.
Whilst there may be reason for the BLM protest, I can see no legitimate reason for storming Capitol Building to try and find Pence and Pelosi, whom they would no doubt have caused harm to if they had found them, there was no legitimate reason for the "call to arms" in Washington, but there was definitely a legitimate reason for BLM.
I will state again, protest should be done peacefully, whether its protest from the left or from the right, and in my opinion protest that turns to violence should have the full weight of the law used against it and each and every reasonable person should condemn it out of hand.
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What news organisation would you consider fair reporting?
Is fox, breitbart,oann,newsmax etc any more fair in their reporting, or is it just the same thing going the other way?
Imo they are exactly as divisive as all the so called mainstream media.
I would include fox among mainstream tho, dont they have the most viewers of all news shows? (or had before they dared go against trump for a second and he disowned them.
)If its too much of a stretch connecting people on a trump rally with the proud boys that are there to fight, surely it must be a stretch to connect innocent blm protesters with the idiots looting/committing crimes, no?
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What news organisation would you consider fair reporting?
Is fox, breitbart,oann,newsmax etc any more fair in their reporting, or is it just the same thing going the other way?
Imo they are exactly as divisive as all the so called mainstream media.
I would include fox among mainstream tho, dont they have the most viewers of all news shows? (or had before they dared go against trump for a second and he disowned them.
If its too much of a stretch connecting people on a trump rally with the proud boys that are there to fight, surely it must be a stretch to connect innocent blm protesters with the idiots looting/committing crimes, no?
well I have gone over that before, you are providing cover for the looting and arson, first night unintentional as you can't have known the scale of disorder about to occur, but after that you are knowingly helping it to occur [imo] in the nightly mayhem.
the proudboy fights are not dependent on trump doing a rally to occur. And these sporadic punch-ups are not in the same magnitude of the events that occured in the summer. Still wrong and ugly however, but the police can cope with it.
I think OANN are better than newsmax, which leans more GOP rino and hawkish, but would I go to these channels or fox for an unbiased view on biden's activity, I think I'd have to take what they say with a pinch of salt.
I'm in the uk so no expert of US tv history, but it wouldn't surprise me if Murdoch's fox was the first to go down a more partisan direction, that goes with his tabloid mentality, and now all the others are doing likewise. When I watch old clips of nbc, cnn etc.. it seems to me they used to be a bit more critical all round, fair handed. [90s to early 2000s]
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You might want to remember that the pro-Trump supporters have had more than 1 march on Washington DC and other state capitols before the ultimate stop the steal march or whatever they called it on the 6th, an event that already started on the 5th. Most of it was peaceful but if you even had a 5 minute look at the livestreams at night you saw that's when the kids came out to play.
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You are conveniently forgetting that there were plans to kidnap the Governor of Michigan a couple of months ago?
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That’s a bit strong lol
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Yes, remind what was that sign behind the ringleader, and the ear lobes. Not a conservative to my eye, some sort of strange mentalist, were his gang part of the proudboys, I must admit I didn't follow it that closely ?
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I knew you were going to come up with that again
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Can explain it better than me.
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whatever happened to the 'whataboutism' concept, I thought that was to be avoided in debates at all costs, liberal folk kept telling me I was indulging in whataboutism and therefore my points weren't valid, but as soon as the riots are brought up and put under the microscope, then the response in turn from liberals is 'what about....etc...'
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Didnt the talk start about the riot on the capitol building, but somehow got whataboutismed to being about blm instead?
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Proud boys and kidnapping haha!I knew you were going to come up with that again
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Can explain it better than me.
fake news I call !
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Didnt the talk start about the riot on the capitol building, but somehow got whataboutismed to being about blm instead?
well that weren't me
I'm sure
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Well originally it was about the domestic terrorists i guess, and how white supremacy was the biggest domestic threat facing USA.well that weren't me
But that kind of died, since apparently posting a link from homeland security that shows what i base my opinion on was "flaming"
Never quite figured out why tho. =)
But that was in the pre-mack era of this thread.
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whatever happened to the 'whataboutism' concept, I thought that was to be avoided in debates at all costs, liberal folk kept telling me I was indulging in whataboutism and therefore my points weren't valid, but as soon as the riots are brought up and put under the microscope, then the response in turn from liberals is 'what about....etc...'
I'm not a liberal.
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