uk court claim question (IOM licence)

[Karl Newbold]

just a quick question.

is it possible to use the small claims court to claim against a Isle of man based online casino?
i have done a little research online and it seems that its possible to use the small claims system against IOM companies

can anyone confirm this??

 

[Deeplay]

Yes anyone can raise a claim against any company. I think the cost is around £60 they have 30 days to respond. A friend of mine one time let a bill slip and a private individual did a judgement against her limited company. Caused her no end of issues with credit ratings and such like so company's will take note of this. But been a few years since I had experience with such stuff so someone else might have more up-to date info )

 

[Karl Newbold]

I know in theory I can, I just wondered if isle of man makes it different, that's all

 

[paul7388]

If you stay in England or wales you can take a small claims court order against a company in Isle of Man . Its classed the same as the 4 UK countries Scotland , N. Ireland England and Wales.

Only thing I don't know is if its easy to take out a claim against a casino as gambling might be classed differently from a company or person owing you money.

 

[Nicola]

I think I know which casino this relates to as I had major issues with them too! IoM Gaming Comission are pretty poor with complaints so the legal route is best bet if you're sure you are in the right and haven't broken any terms.

 

[Karl Newbold]

There's some, and I do mean some possibility of the terms and conditions being in my favor. When a balance is in cash, as opposed to bonus, and all terms and conditions with play through already being adhered to.....it seems good for me.

However not being allowed to make a withdrawal without a deposit, which then invalidates my withdrawal, well!

 

[silcnlayc]

The time it takes and money will out weigh the reality of proceeding with this. n the end, it still does not guarantee payment to you. Just a mark against the other. Why bother to spend your time and money to appear in court when the end result is a negative regardless?

 

[Karl Newbold]

The cost is minimal, would be less than 5% of the gain, I do have some small claims court experience

 

[vinylweatherman]

If all they are asking for is a minimum deposit before paying out the win, it would be cheaper and less risky than spending £60 in the small claims court. They may also defend the claim by saying that they would have paid once you had made a minimum deposit, but that you didn't give them the chance.

Without a deposit, it's really a claim about a "free gift", and whether a customer in receipt of a free gift without ever having made a purchase still has the same rights as a paying customer. I do know that where a free gift is used to induce customers to make a purchase, and the free gift does not then materialise, or is not of the advertised quality, then a customer CAN sue under UK law as customers have the same consumer rights over the free gift as over their purchase, just ask Hoover - they decided to find this out the hard way many years ago

If you make a minimum deposit, and they then come up with another excuse for non payment, it should strengthen your case in court.

 

[RichyJ75]

Have a look on

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to see if said company has interests based in England, Scotland or Wales as they may have other addresses which are not necessarily their registered address.

I had an issue against an offshore casino and was lucky enough to find info on companies/individuals of this company based/registered in the UK so papers can be issued through the UK court system.

 

[Karl Newbold]

Have a look on

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to see if said company has interests based in England, Scotland or Wales as they may have other addresses which are not necessarily their registered address.

I had an issue against an offshore casino and was lucky enough to find info on companies/individuals of this company based/registered in the UK so papers can be issued through the UK court system.

Yep they have web design/ support and it based in Norwich. I'm quite confident that I would win under fair play/common logic, due to winning a largish amount on free spins, I then deposited and continued to play, losing a lot and then winning back to the original amount,

They are claiming that I never played with my own money.

I have a few other loopholes in terms and conditions.

They have offered about 15% of what's due.

Managed to find the email addresses of a few high members of staff, as they won't give me the contact details of who handles complaints after the customer services manager.......I don't know if he's been replaced

 

[Harry_BKK]

Yep they have web design/ support and it based in Norwich. I'm quite confident that I would win under fair play/common logic, due to winning a largish amount on free spins, I then deposited and continued to play, losing a lot and then winning back to the original amount,

They are claiming that I never played with my own money.

I have a few other loopholes in terms and conditions.

They have offered about 15% of what's due.

Managed to find the email addresses of a few high members of staff, as they won't give me the contact details of who handles complaints after the customer services manager.......I don't know if he's been replaced

Is the casino accredited here at CM? - Check here: Link Outdated / Removed
If not, make sure it is not in the "No-Can-Do" section - check here: https://www.casinomeister.com/casino-complaints/no-can-do-list/

File a PAB (make sure you read the rules) - Link Outdated / Removed- this is a free service offered by CM and mostly much faster than to go to any courts.

As you are a new member and have never filed a PAB, you have 1 PAB shot at a casino which is not accredited, so it might be still worth go ahead with a PAB.

Again, please make sure you read all the rules for PAB's.

 

[Karl Newbold]

Is the casino
As you are a new member and have never filed a PAB, you have 1 PAB shot at a casino which is not accredited, so it might be still worth go ahead with a PAB.

Again, please make sure you read all the rules for PAB's.

It is accredited I'm afraid.

I know court isn't quick but it's the principal, I issues a withdrawal, then the funds just vanished

 

[Harry_BKK]

It is accredited I'm afraid.

I know court isn't quick but it's the principal, I issues a withdrawal, then the funds just vanished

I would go then with a PAB. Your case would be resolved much quicker. And remember, anyone can make a mistake. A PAB gives the casino the chance to put things right.

After all the main point is that you get paid.

You can always pursue the court route if the PAB is not successful.

 

[Tirilej]

This case is in several threads now but if I understood it right it was like this.

You won from free sign up spins that was capped to £100.
To get the win you had to make a deposit so you did.

You could cash out and the casino had given you the £100 + your deposit. Nothing strange and what their rules was saying.

You continued to play and won more so you wanted all of the money even though the winnings were capped to £100. Clearly in their rules.
Sorry but I don't think you stand a chance here. You should get the original winnings though.

 

[Karl Newbold]

More or less there,
The terms and conditions are very loose on this, with a number that go against each other (which I have a copy of and I won't reference here)
If the win was capped to 100 via my free spins then fair enough.
After the free spins I had less than 100.

I changed games and continued to play, building the amount up, still switching around. (Unrelated to free spins as technically these were paid for)

Then I deposited, and went to withdraw the full amount, which I did.

Boredom hit and I reversed the withdrawal, losing quite a lot......eventually getting to slightly higher than the amount I reversed.


After this I tried to make a withdrawal, to have the entire amount removed.

If the money never transferred out of bonus I would understand this entirely. However it was in my active cash balance.

I could in theory have deposited how much I like, but would have to have lost 800 before I could win anything, and at the advertised player returns I would have been there some time!

Therefore did I ever use any of my actual money (well it was never in the bonus funds)

 

[Tirilej]

More or less there,
The terms and conditions are very loose on this, with a number that go against each other (which I have a copy of and I won't reference here)
If the win was capped to 100 via my free spins then fair enough.
After the free spins I had less than 100.

I changed games and continued to play, building the amount up, still switching around. (Unrelated to free spins as technically these were paid for)

Then I deposited, and went to withdraw the full amount, which I did.

Boredom hit and I reversed the withdrawal, losing quite a lot......eventually getting to slightly higher than the amount I reversed.


After this I tried to make a withdrawal, to have the entire amount removed.

If the money never transferred out of bonus I would understand this entirely. However it was in my active cash balance.

I could in theory have deposited how much I like, but would have to have lost 800 before I could win anything, and at the advertised player returns I would have been there some time!

Therefore did I ever use any of my actual money (well it was never in the bonus funds)

So what you should recieve now is the amount you had when you made your deposit.

The money was in the cash balance so that you could make your withdrawl. That doesn't mean all the money was yours.
You should have talked to them straight away instead of just thinking you could make it bigger.

Sure you can try to win this but I still doubt that you have a chance. It is a normal rule though so make sure you know for the next casino.

 

[Karl Newbold]

So what you should recieve now is the amount you had when you made your deposit.

This is what I also believe

Its around 820ish

 

[Harry_BKK]

More or less there,
The terms and conditions are very loose on this, with a number that go against each other (which I have a copy of and I won't reference here)
If the win was capped to 100 via my free spins then fair enough.
After the free spins I had less than 100.

I changed games and continued to play, building the amount up, still switching around. (Unrelated to free spins as technically these were paid for)

Then I deposited, and went to withdraw the full amount, which I did.

Boredom hit and I reversed the withdrawal, losing quite a lot......eventually getting to slightly higher than the amount I reversed.


After this I tried to make a withdrawal, to have the entire amount removed.

If the money never transferred out of bonus I would understand this entirely. However it was in my active cash balance.

I could in theory have deposited how much I like, but would have to have lost 800 before I could win anything, and at the advertised player returns I would have been there some time!

Therefore did I ever use any of my actual money (well it was never in the bonus funds)

I don't think you have a case here mate, sorry to say that.

Let me put it all in chronological order so it is easier to understand.

- You sign up and receive ND free spins
- Rules state that max. winnings that can be withdrawn are 100$.
- You play the FS and win a amount below 100$ and keep playing
- At some point you make a verification deposited (asked for in the rules)
- Here you should have withdrawn your deposit and the 100$
- You decide to play on and manage to win a higher amount and then you withdraw that
- You reverse your withdrawal and nearly lose it all before recovering and submitting another withdrawal.
- Withdrawal is confiscated

Conclusions:
- You are only entitled to your deposit + max 100$
- Reversing, playing and withdrawing again does not change the fact that you play with funds that originated from your FS winnings, hence you are still bound by the max 100$ rule
- Casino has to pay you the deposit and the max 100$
- Anything else can be voided as you will never be able to withdraw from that.

 

[Tirilej]

This is what I also believe

Its around 820ish

So you kept playing up to that amount before you even made the deposit? Now you're confusing me.
In that case forget it. If it's capped it is and no way you could get the whole lot

 

[spintee]

Im sure somewhere in the rules it states something like, any money above 100 even if you win a after the facts the 100 still is the max,

I think its a clear case of take your 100 and run, The sites have got to look after there interest, Would you have made a deposit if you won nothing? I know as a gambler that the deposit is only to confirm your real than aloud to withdraw.

Some sites are capped at £20 unless a depoist is made before hand, A few people have been caught on this one (IPS Sites) for instance, If you have made no deposit and took the free money than max is £20 but if you deposit and show good faith than no limit,

 

[KasinoKing]

It is accredited I'm afraid.

That is GOOD news - 100% definitely Pitch-A-Bitch!

Without knowing the casino and the exact T&Cs I can't say what your chances of success are - but you have absolutely nothing to lose by going down this route, and if nothing else, the case might encourage the casino to make their T&Cs clearer so that no-one else falls into the same trap.

KK

 

[Karl Newbold]

The reason I thought it was bad was due to this....

As you are a new member and have never filed a PAB, you have 1 PAB shot at a casino which is not accredited, so it might be still worth go ahead with a PAB.

 

[Harry_BKK]

The reason I thought it was bad was due to this....

As you are a new member and have never filed a PAB, you have 1 PAB shot at a casino which is not accredited, so it might be still worth go ahead with a PAB.

Karl, you misunderstood that unfortunately.

You can file as many PAB's as you want if the casino in question is accredited at CM, but everybody get's only 1 shot with a casino which is not accredited.

Sorry if i was not clear enough in my statement.

 

[Karl Newbold]

How does this work, does it just go through the companies support?