UK Conservative Party Leadership Election

[electronictonic]

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Nadine earning herself a 'for fuck's sake' from a Conservative MP.



Also Liz Truss.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

The strange thing about Liz Truss is she was actually correct about all this stuff back in 2016, so her 'journey' on the subject has gone from being right, to being wrong. And yet it is being wrong about it that now makes her so appealing to the Tory grassroots.

The world is odd sometimes.

(The answer of course is that Liz Truss wrote this.)

 

[mack341]

She comes from a very liberal family apparently, even further left to corbyn's labour was the quote I read!

I think she was herself a member of the liberal democrats:



Then again the mid 90s libdems would probably be defined as extreme rightwing now such is the general shift leftwards and embrace of the PC culture/thought police.

And typical of the conservative parliamentary party to give the grass roots members a choice between a superficial johnny-come-lately [who's already had top job no2 and fucked up] or a former libdem.

 

[slot_zombie]

So the two candidates are now engaged in what can only really be described as a 'cunt-off'.

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We're now into what can only really be described as National Front territory. (Nice to see Princess Di still making copy three million years after her death.)

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Meanwhile Rwanda, after taking £120m from the UK government, has said it can only take 200 refugees, which works out to £600K per refugee. Now I'm no mega-maths-genius, but for that money we could have given them the best possible education and training in the world, and had them working productively in our society as doctors and scientists and researchers and nurses and surgeons and all that kind of good shit.

Instead, we spent £600K per refugee to not send them to Rwanda.

Still, it's nice to see Boris 'World's Biggest Fucking Liar' Johnson enjoying his tax-payer's funded jolly doing literally no work and instead playing around in Top Gun style jet stunts and chucking pretend grenades around.

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I can 't believe I'm reading this objectionable tosh. So wanting to prevent 10s of thousands of illegal economic migrants breaking in from safe countries is being a cunt now is it? Well I guess I'm a cunt then.

How many of these gentlemen are you putting up in your own home? Thought so.

Seriously, stick to the (great) slot wittering on YouTube mate.

 

[pinnit2014]

Check out the Brexit thread - you'll see more platitudes being thrown around as Boris and his grenades

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I can 't believe I'm reading this objectionable tosh. So wanting to prevent 10s of thousands of illegal economic migrants breaking in from safe countries is being a cunt now is it? Well I guess I'm a cunt then.

How many of these gentlemen are you putting up in your own home? Thought so.

Seriously, stick to the (great) slot wittering on YouTube mate.

I was very specific to describe the candidates as being involved in a 'cunt-off', because I think when you're making a cornerstone of your campaign to be Prime Minister how horrible you're planning to be to people fleeing persecution and war, that's a bit cunty. (And Sunak's proposal is actually illegal under international law.)

Refugees are absolutely not the same thing as illegal economic migrants, and conflating the two is entirely disingenuous. (Although we could actually do with some economic migrants at the moment given the crippling staff shortages we're seeing in many sectors and the fact we have food rotting in our fields because there's no one to pick it.)

Given the headwinds the UK is facing at the moment in terms of economic crisis, an NHS on the brink, surging inflation, suppressed wages, rising interest rates, and an impending energy price crisis this winter, at a time when the UK has more food banks than at any point in its history - the Tories are getting tied up in knots over who can be the biggest arsehole to desperate refugees and, lord have mercy, whether or not a woman can have a penis. It's fucking tragic.

 

[slot_zombie]

They're not fleeing persecution from safe country France though, are they. Therefore they are economic migrants coming to soft touch Britain.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

They're not fleeing persecution from safe country France though, are they. Therefore they are economic migrants coming to soft touch Britain.

This was brought up in the Brexit thread earlier in the month.

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[ChopleyIOM]

These were things Liz Truss said in the last leadership debate. The Tories have been in power for twelve straight years, they also gave us a deeply damaging Hard Brexit which has tanked UK GDP by 4% (tens of billions pounds of lost revenues every year).

So yeah, LOOK OVER THERE, MIGRANTS, I'LL SEND THEM TO RWANDA!

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Crikey, this is actually like a party political broadcast for the Labour Party.

This stuff would probably land better if the Tories hadn't been in uninterrupted power since 2010.

It's like someone who's walked into your house and done a massive great shit on your kitchen table offering to lend you a bucket.

 

[dunover]

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The power of Truss. Poor Kate McCann, now you know how we feel listening to @ChopleyIOM

(Off camera Truss gives her a sly kick in the head for breaking her stride.)

 

[ChopleyIOM]

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The power of Truss. Poor Kate McCann, now you know how we feel listening to @ChopleyIOM

In fairness she probably did them a favour, given how comprehensively they were describing the utter shitness of twelve years of Tory government.

 

[mcgameboy]

I was very specific to describe the candidates as being involved in a 'cunt-off', because I think when you're making a cornerstone of your campaign to be Prime Minister how horrible you're planning to be to people fleeing persecution and war, that's a bit cunty. (And Sunak's proposal is actually illegal under international law.)

Refugees are absolutely not the same thing as illegal economic migrants, and conflating the two is entirely disingenuous. (Although we could actually do with some economic migrants at the moment given the crippling staff shortages we're seeing in many sectors and the fact we have food rotting in our fields because there's no one to pick it.)

Given the headwinds the UK is facing at the moment in terms of economic crisis, an NHS on the brink, surging inflation, suppressed wages, rising interest rates, and an impending energy price crisis this winter, at a time when the UK has more food banks than at any point in its history - the Tories are getting tied up in knots over who can be the biggest arsehole to desperate refugees and, lord have mercy, whether or not a woman can have a penis. It's fucking tragic.

That's no way to talk about the most important policy that Labour will have on their next GE manifesto.....

And you call yourself a Labour supporter? Pfftttt......

 

[pinnit2014]

That's no way to talk about the most important policy that Labour will have on their next GE manifesto.....

And you call yourself a Labour supporter? Pfftttt......

I said the SNP's only policies were legislation and regulation and i see Labour today came out with their solution - more regulation. Pretty much sums them up - bereft of ideas, lets regulate some more.

If only some people would critique their own party with as much effort as they do the opposing one, we might even reach a talking point

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I said the SNP's only policies were legislation and regulation and i see Labour today came out with their solution - more regulation. Pretty much sums them up - bereft of ideas, lets regulate some more.

If only some people would critique their own party with as much effort as they do the opposing one, we might even reach a talking point

You can achieve a lot with tight regulation, (I mean, we all agree that some regulation is required, right?), although in the case of energy, water, rail and mail I'd be much happier if Starmer had stuck to his original pledge to renationalise, as advocated and put in the Labour manifesto by CORBYN THE SUPREME LEADER (At the moment he's only sticking to rail, which is largely renationalised now anyway.)

I'm not wildly impressed with Starmer (as I've said here many times before, contrary to your assertion that I never critique Labour), he's ditched a lot of what I'd see as core Labour policies, and his lack of public support for striking workers is shocking.

I get that they're focus grouping the shit out of this stuff and are being very careful about how things will play out, and they need to be careful of a rabid right wing press, but polls are consistently showing that the public are (for example), generally in favour of renationalisation and Labour are being far too timid on the issue.

As for Starmer fumbling the answer to can a woman have a penis, I absolutely couldn't give less of a shit, it's a total non-issue for me, and the polling on this shows most of the public don't really care either. Grant Shapps gave the best answer to this out of all the Tory leadership candidates.

 

[mack341]

You can achieve a lot with tight regulation, (I mean, we all agree that some regulation is required, right?), although in the case of energy, rail and mail I'd be much happier if Starmer had stuck to his original pledge to renationalise, as advocated and put in the Labour manifesto by CORBYN THE SUPREME LEADER (At the moment he's only sticking to rail, which is largely renationalised now anyway.)

I'm not wildly impressed with Starmer (as I've said here many times before, contrary to your assertion that I never critique Labour), he's ditched a lot of what I'd see as core Labour policies, and his lack of public support for striking workers is shocking.

I get that they're focus grouping the shit out of this stuff and are being very careful about how things will play out, and they need to be careful of a rabid right wing press, but polls are consistently showing that the public are (for example), generally in favour of renationalisation and Labour are being far too timid on the issue.

As for Starmer fumbling the answer to can a woman have a penis, I absolutely couldn't give less of a shit, it's a total non-issue for me, and the polling on this shows most of the public don't really care either. Grant Shapps gave the best answer to this out of all the Tory leadership candidates.

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If Stamer finds that too difficult to answer honestly, whether a woman can have a knob, it doesn't bode well for his basic level of common sense.

There was a telegraph headline yesterday that he's removed 10 socialist promises from his manifesto or policy plan, paywalled otherwise I'd have read it.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

If Stamer finds that too difficult to answer honestly, whether a woman can have a knob, it doesn't bode well for his basic level of common sense.

There was a telegraph headline yesterday that he's removed 10 socialist promises from his manifesto or policy plan, paywalled otherwise I'd have read it.

I didn't think Starmer's answer was even that bad in terms of the content, but he delivered it rather clumsily. The 'trans debate' is relatively new in terms of being publicly discussed, and it raises issues that will need to be resolved, which in time, they will be. (Trans women in sports, toilet facilities, changing rooms etc.) Lest we forget that Alan Turing, who played an instrumental part in Britain being on the winning side in the Second World War, was essentially hounded to his death by the British state for the 'crime' of being gay, and that wasn't even that long ago. So for my money it'd be nice if we didn't subject trans people to the same sort of prejudice and demeaning questions about their anatomies.

None of this stuff is beyond our ability to sort out, and taken against the massive issues that are facing the UK at the moment, is it honestly near the top of the list? (Again, the polling on this says that for the vast majority of people, it really isn't.)

We've now got very good evidence that Boris Johnson was having private meetings with actual ex-KGB agents after losing his security detail and he may or may not have discussed UK government matters with them (and he definitely put Lebedev into the House of Lords), but yeah, Starmer making a bit of a fumble of the question 'can a woman have a penis' is what makes him unsuitable material to be Prime Minister.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

The whole 'trans issue' is mere trivia compared to the corruption and lies of the Tories which are in absolute plain view.

Remember that both Truss and Sunak propped this guy up time and time again.

Lest we forget that Johnson is still PM, just having a jolly at the tax payer's expense and not even pretending to actually do any work any more.

Also remember that Johnson is a known and proven serial liar, so when he says he didn't discuss UK government business with an actual ex-KGB agent, he's almost certainly lying.

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[mack341]

The whole 'trans issue' is mere trivia compared to the corruption and lies of the Tories which are in absolute plain view.

Remember that both Truss and Sunak propped this guy up time and time again.

Lest we forget that Johnson is still PM, just having a jolly at the tax payer's expense and not even pretending to actually do any work any more.

Also remember that Johnson is a known and proven serial liar, so when he says he didn't discuss UK government business with an actual ex-KGB agent, he's almost certainly lying.

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Lebedev owns the evening standard, the independent newspaper and the 'london live' tv channel, so if he's that dodgy the intelligence services and uk govt have been asleep somewhat. [putting aside the lordship bojo gave him]

Homosexuality was illegal during Turing's troubles, being trans isn't today so the comparison doesn't really match.

The state should stop confusing children further than normal, putting it into their heads they may be a different 'gender'.

Adults can do what they want regarding trans ops and medication, privately funded of course, we have other things to spend NHS money on like real physical illnesses that need expensive treatment and drugs.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Lebedev owns the evening standard, the independent newspaper and the 'london live' tv channel, so if he's that dodgy the intelligence services and uk govt have been asleep somewhat. [putting aside the lordship bojo gave him]

Homosexuality was illegal during Turing's troubles, being trans isn't today so the comparison doesn't really match.

The state should stop confusing children further than normal, putting it into their heads they may be a different 'gender'.

Adults can do what they want regarding trans ops and medication, privately funded of course, we have other things to spend NHS money on like real physical illnesses that need expensive treatment and drugs.

Remember there are two Lebedevs - there's Lebedev Snr, the ex-KGB agent who Johnson met at a party and 'doesn't remember' if he discussed government business with or not, then there's Lebedev Jnr who British Intelligence Services did indeed raise red flags over and recommended he not be given a peerage but Johnson went and did it anyway.

As for the trans situation, the language being used around trans people is painfully close to that which was used about gay blokes in the 1980s, when AIDS was kicking off and we even had Police Chief Constables like James Anderton coming out with vile homophobic comments stating gay men were 'swirling in a human cesspit of their own making' and that 'sodomy in males ought to be against the law' - so yeah, even though it wasn't illegal to be gay at that time, you can guess whose side some in the law were on.

Finally, if you think the (very small!) number of trans people getting ops and medication on the NHS are the problem, you probably need to take a look at this. I don't think 19 patients waiting on trolleys because A&E is full are being bed blocked by trans people. What's killing the NHS is twelve years of Tory neglect, not trans people. Remember who the villains are here, it isn't the people struggling terribly with gender identity and trying to find a way forward with their lives.

 

[slot_zombie]

Just the first 30 seconds..

 

[mack341]

Remember there are two Lebedevs - there's Lebedev Snr, the ex-KGB agent who Johnson met at a party and 'doesn't remember' if he discussed government business with or not, then there's Lebedev Jnr who British Intelligence Services did indeed raise red flags over and recommended he not be given a peerage but Johnson went and did it anyway.

As for the trans situation, the language being used around trans people is painfully close to that which was used about gay blokes in the 1980s, when AIDS was kicking off and we even had Police Chief Constables like James Anderton coming out with vile homophobic comments stating gay men were 'swirling in a human cesspit of their own making' and that 'sodomy in males ought to be against the law' - so yeah, even though it wasn't illegal to be gay at that time, you can guess whose side some in the law were on.

Finally, if you think the (very small!) number of trans people getting ops and medication on the NHS are the problem, you probably need to take a look at this. I don't think 19 patients waiting on trolleys because A&E is full are being bed blocked by trans people. What's killing the NHS is twelve years of Tory neglect, not trans people. Remember who the villains are here, it isn't the people struggling terribly with gender identity and trying to find a way forward with their lives.

We're talking about kids in the main, I didn't say the A&E queues were due to trans ops, but the NHS has limited resources not infinite.

All this trans gender stuff is far left marxist nonsense, waved on by adult politicians who should know better and sign off the funding and assign priorities in health and education etc... Kids are regretting later on having the ops which can't be reversed, they didn't have the adult minds capable of making such life changing decisions.

This support for all things 'transgender' is the kind of thing that puts normal people off Labour, we know they're all for it and don't give a toss about any negative consequences, undermining normality and traditional society. [The tories are half supporting it or passive about it, so not much better in my book]

 

[pinnit2014]

We're talking about kids in the main, I didn't say the A&E queues were due to trans ops, but the NHS has limited resources not infinite.

All this trans gender stuff is far left marxist nonsense, waved on by adult politicians who should know better and sign off the funding and assign priorities in health and education etc... Kids are regretting later on having the ops which can't be reversed, they didn't have the adult minds capable of making such life changing decisions.

This support for all things 'transgender' is the kind of thing that puts normal people off Labour, we know they're all for it and don't give a toss about any negative consequences, undermining normality and traditional society. [The tories are half supporting it or passive about it, so not much better in my book]

I've pretty much reached the end of my tether with Labour - i have voted for them, whilst not agreeing with their stance on a lot of things, over the years. One of the most common feelings i have though, certainly precipitating over the years, is that i've grown more disconnected with them and unable to relate to a lot of what they have to say/care about. Still wouldn't cast an X beside the Tories to be fair, but it's a lot more a possibility now than say 10 or so years ago.

 

[mack341]

I've pretty much reached the end of my tether with Labour - i have voted for them, whilst not agreeing with their stance on a lot of things, over the years. One of the most common feelings i have though, certainly precipitating over the years, is that i've grown more disconnected with them and unable to relate to a lot of what they have to say/care about. Still wouldn't cast an X beside the Tories to be fair, but it's a lot more a possibility now than say 10 or so years ago.

I think we need some new parties, based more around common sense and priorities. The tories are not exactly rolling back some of this madness which has got into the institutions and public services.

I see Starmer has sacked someone for doing a tv interview on a picket line, so labour are now going to piss off their union members, whether you agree with the rail strikes or not, it seems the rail workers haven't got a political recourse, a party in the HOC on their side.

Yet asked to define a biological woman and starmer quibbles, trying to gain brownie points or not be cancelled. He's more submissive to the trans lobby than the union one paying for his conferences and party structure.