UK Conservative Party Leadership Election

[ChopleyIOM]

Liz Truss is now more unpopular with the British public than Jeremy Corbyn ever was.

Sunak is clearly the Tories' best hope at the moment, which isn't saying much considering his tax evasion/green card shenanigans.

Also interesting to note that Starmer isn't exactly massively popular himself, I think 'not being a Tory' is probably his strongest asset at the moment.

 

[dunover]

I think people who think this is bad should research the state of the UK in 1979 after Labour, before Thatcher saved us from permanent implosion. Think of the shit right now, times it by two, switch off the leccy, add freezing weather, take in the vista of our cities turned into rubbish tips (worse than recently in Scotland) visit the IMF for a bung and enjoy 33% basic rate income tax.

 

[Siohmy]

I think people who think this is bad should research the state of the UK in 1979 after Labour, before Thatcher saved us from permanent implosion. Think of the shit right now, times it by two, switch off the leccy, add freezing weather, take in the vista of our cities turned into rubbish tips (worse than recently in Scotland) visit the IMF for a bung and enjoy 33% basic rate income tax.

All good things come to those that wait. ?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I think people who think this is bad should research the state of the UK in 1979 after Labour, before Thatcher saved us from permanent implosion. Think of the shit right now, times it by two, switch off the leccy, add freezing weather, take in the vista of our cities turned into rubbish tips (worse than recently in Scotland) visit the IMF for a bung and enjoy 33% basic rate income tax.

'Labour made a mess 43 years ago so we should stick with the Tories who've been making a mess continuously for the last 12 years' is certainly a compelling argument.

Why stop there, I heard some stuff was pretty rough back in the 1850s too.

 

[Webzcas]

So in a highly, highly unusual intervention, Jeremy Hunt - (this week's Chancellor, in case you're having trouble keeping up) - is making a statement at 11am, where he's bringing forward some elements from the government's medium term financial plan.

In simple terms, The Treasury is genuinely worried that international investors are going to refuse to take on UK government debt, or if they do, it will be at horribly high interest rates.

The damage caused by the Kami-Kwasi mini-budget continues to be felt.

What happens in the money markets today will be highly significant.

@Webzcas - Call me old-fashioned, but I wouldn't advocate for running a country's economy like a crazy game of high stakes poker at the end of a wild-eyed booze and cocaine bender.

Never again will the Tories be able to claim they're the party of economic competence.

View attachment 174292

Thankfully I gave up playing poker a long time ago

Unfortunately we now have Hunt in as de-facto PM. I despair, I really do.

 

[dunover]

'Labour made a mess 43 years ago so we should stick with the Tories who've been making a mess continuously for the last 12 years' is certainly a compelling argument.

Why stop there, I heard some stuff was pretty rough back in the 1850s too.

Yeah, a 'wise' man who obviously doesn't follow the mantra regarding those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it....

And let me remind you some of us poor buggers were kids in 1978-79, in reference to your daft analogy.

Unless you lot in the Isle of Moan have unlocked the secret of longevity and were indeed around in the 1850's. A period we could have easily been replicating if Corbum had got near power, although I suspect your alluding to being a 'Corbyn Cretin' is more to cause a reaction than a real belief.

 

[goatwack]

My God, her popularity among the party is bad.......just imagine how it's with the public!

And it really, really looks like Boris Johnson will helm this wreck to gain some stability 'within', words I never thought I'd type. Bookies are rarely wrong about these things so it's looking pretty likely!

He's played his golf, probably made kid #11 and has had more tequillas than Corbyn has brown suits. Peter Jackson'd be proud of this one, as we all await the return of the king. Huzzah!

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Yeah, a 'wise' man who obviously doesn't follow the mantra regarding those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it....

And let me remind you some of us poor buggers were kids in 1978-79, in reference to your daft analogy.

Unless you lot in the Isle of Moan have unlocked the secret of longevity and were indeed around in the 1850's. A period we could have easily been replicating if Corbum had got near power, although I suspect your alluding to being a 'Corbyn Cretin' is more to cause a reaction than a real belief.

Yes I was a child in 1978/79 as well, and then I grew up in deindustrialised Northern Manchester with the effects of Thatcherism all around me. It wasn't nice. You can talk about about Thatcher saving the UK from 'permanent implosion' as much as you like, but where I grew up we felt like we were in the epicentre of an explosion of poverty, unemployment, and despair.

 

[Webzcas]

My gravest concern is that Hunt is going to renege on Truss's pledge to increase defence spending. This would be CRIMINAL if he does this. We are the closest we have ever been since 1962 to a nuclear war. Russia and the containment of them is our #1 priority.

 

[goatwack]

He's already spelled out that he's going to tighten the purse strings in the Budget, short of graffitiing it on the Commons floor. So once the public sector's been desecrated, I'd imagine - at best - for Defence spending to stay at the level it is now.

But remember, repeating "We're going to prioritize help to those who need it most" over and over doesn't, seemingly, include things like Energy caps or further help towards helping those set to toil into next year.

Y'all ready for Austerity 2,0?

 

[bamberfishcake]

Decrease defence spending? No chance. Too much money to be made from funding a war we have nothing to do with.

 

[Kroffe]

Decrease defence spending? No chance. Too much money to be made from funding a war we have nothing to do with.

With us joining NATO i assume we will also have to pour a bunch more money into military, i think they want member countries to spend 2% of their gdp (is gdp the right term?) on military.

Not a big fan of military spending overall, and definitely not a big fan of having to bend over for Erdoğan just to be allowed into NATO.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

This is apocalyptically bad polling for the Tories, they've lost the economy, they've lost crime, they've lost Brexit, they've lost immigration - they just have...... nothing. They have no plans, no ideas, they don't even have a leader in any meaningful sense.

A doomed party, in power but not governing, the UK bleeding out in all directions whilst they arrange endless circular firing squads.

If this government were a dog, you'd put it down out of mercy, and yet they could limp on for another two years.

 

[pinnit2014]

This is the best recruitment drive for Scottish Independence I've seen - as a No voter back then, disillusionment has meant, like many, you're thinking: sure why not, can't be worst than the current bunch of incompetents. If someone is going to be crap at their job, least speak with a local accent - was that not the Brexit ethos??

Will Labour be better? Well, that's as worthwhile as debating which turd was curlier: Monday's or Curry Thursday's.

Ideal scenario: let the SNP get what they want and then vote them out with their mandate being achieved.

Then wait for the irony of the Brexiteers AGAINST nationalism

 

[bamberfishcake]

With us joining NATO i assume we will also have to pour a bunch more money into military, i think they want member countries to spend 2% of their gdp (is gdp the right term?) on military.

Not a big fan of military spending overall, and definitely not a big fan of having to bend over for Erdoğan just to be allowed into NATO.

View attachment 174371

Couldn't say if the contribution is based on GDP, but most certainly a contribution is required for membership.

Not a fan of defence spending either. And after seeing videos about Hiroshima, I cannot fathom why we have such weaponry in this world.

I appreciate the argument of a deterrent, but what a screwed-up rock we live on when 99% of the people in this would probably love to see the planet rid of such devastating weaponry.

 

[Siohmy]

Couldn't say if the contribution is based on GDP, but most certainly a contribution is required for membership.

Not a fan of defence spending either. And after seeing videos about Hiroshima, I cannot fathom why we have such weaponry in this world.

I appreciate the argument of a deterrent, but what a screwed-up rock we live on when 99% of the people in this would probably love to see the planet rid of such devastating weaponry.

Unfortunately the world is a domain where the minuscule few wield such power, many without the will of the people, that they will one day, like batshit cultists, kill everyone.

The current situation in Russia is almost the equivalent of a small group of fanatics with the power to wipe out a significant part of the world, or at least lead to that, with no one effectively to stop them. Putin has effectively binned anyone who dares say no to him.

The idea that self preservation will allow us to stop short of self destruction goes out of the window when you truly have someone who simply “does not give a shit” and Putin just maybe that person.

It’s horrible but there seems to be a complete inevitability with all the war positioning going on that the shit will hit the fan sooner rather than later.

Anyway I’m off to Vegas next week. May as well enjoy myself as much as possible in the meantime!

 

[bamberfishcake]

This is the best recruitment drive for Scottish Independence I've seen - as a No voter back then, disillusionment has meant, like many, you're thinking: sure why not, can't be worst than the current bunch of incompetents. If someone is going to be crap at their job, least speak with a local accent - was that not the Brexit ethos??

Will Labour be better? Well, that's as worthwhile as debating which turd was curlier: Monday's or Curry Thursday's.

Ideal scenario: let the SNP get what they want and then vote them out with their mandate being achieved.

Then wait for the irony of the Brexiteers AGAINST nationalism

Dont know enough about what it would mean to say if it would be good. but my gut feeling is 'why not?'. None of the UK government can be trusted to do what's best for the people and the system is broken and corrupt, so why not go for independence? Can't do much worse.

I know Scotland is set up for independence and has some strings to its bow, like the tax breaks for big business and how much simpler it is to set up a company.

I am in favour of Brexit also

 

[pinnit2014]

Dont know enough about what it would mean to say if it would be good. but my gut feeling is 'why not?'. None of the UK government can be trusted to do what's best for the people and the system is broken and corrupt, so why not go for independence? Can't do much worse.

I know Scotland is set up for independence and has some strings to its bow, like the tax breaks for big business and how much simpler it is to set up a company.

I am in favour of Brexit also

Well, if you're favour Brexit i struggle to see how you can oppose it - both have as much fiscal optimism as the other

Lets be honest, the still to be created Scottish Pound will probably be worth as much as the Sterling

Who knows, maybe England will take on the Scottish Smackarooney!

 

[goatwack]

If enough Scots vote Labour and they form a sludge with the SNP again, there just HAS to be a way we can get Sturgeon into 10 Downing St.

Come on guys and gals, let's make it happen!

 

[Siohmy]

If enough Scots vote Labour and they form a sludge with the SNP again, there just HAS to be a way we can get Sturgeon into 10 Downing St.

Come on guys and gals, let's make it happen!

Would almost be worth it for a bit of a laugh.

 

[mack341]

Stungun and Drakelord, got to be the No1 dream team. Also bring Cordon Brown back out of retirement as chief finance adviser, we'll soon be the envy of the world, our standing unmatched

 

[dunover]

Hey, @ChopleyIOM - at the risk of getting you to type something interesting, not being in the UK what energy help has the Tynwald given to those in your place? If you've mentioned it elsewhere sorry, but is there some assistance?

I would flippantly say the hot air from the remainers on the Isle of Moan would keep you warm this winter, but upon further investigation it seems only you and an old lady in Douglas actually give a fuck about Brexit on the island so that won't stand.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Hey, @ChopleyIOM - at the risk of getting you to type something interesting, not being in the UK what energy help has the Tynwald given to those in your place? If you've mentioned it elsewhere sorry, but is there some assistance?

I would flippantly say the hot air from the remainers on the Isle of Moan would keep you warm this winter, but upon further investigation it seems only you and an old lady in Douglas actually give a fuck about Brexit on the island so that won't stand.

Yes the government here announced its package back in August, quite similar to what you ended up with over there, fixes prices for six months and then revisited after that. (Our cap is 22p per kw/h whereas in the UK you're higher at I believe 34p per kw/h.)

We're at a slight advantage here because the MUA (Manx Utilities Authority) isn't privatised (no shareholders creaming off their slice) and runs instead as a statutory board of government, so the government can tell it what to do and it isn't allowed to make a profit in raw cash terms (any excess funds have to be reinvested).

In this case the government lent the MUA the money to subsidise bills and they have to pay it back over 20 years. (Unlike Truss of course, who decided to borrow the money, load the debt onto taxpayers, and let the energy companies make out like bandits.)

They've also done other stuff like established a government fund to make homes more energy efficient, capping bus fares and that sort of thing.

Politics is a lot closer to the people here, it's not unusual to meet your MHK (our equivalent of an MP) in the shops or walking down the street. Our current Treasury Minister (equivalent of Chancellor) used to be my GP - very nice chap he is too.

Also we don't have a party political system here to speak of, so you don't get the unedifying bunfights you see all the time in the House of Commons and the politicians here tend to work together to try and get stuff done for the good of the island and its population.

This does however, dare I say, tend to make IOM politics rather dull (in a good sort of way!) - but fortunately I can rely on UK politics to keep things interesting....

You can read about the IOM measures here if you wish -

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[ChopleyIOM]

Not a great PMQs. Truss did enough to survive and Starmer seemed more interested in point-scoring than getting into a substantive debate, I hate all the whooping and hollering and general racket - it's so fucking unprofessional, and so detached from what's actually happening in the country. Sometimes it's not very hard to see why people just switch off from politics altogether.

Yes I know PMQs is as much 'performance' as it is 'politics' to a degree, but when times are hard and the UK is facing a serious buffeting from all sides - it's an unedifying spectacle.

 

[mack341]

I rewatched some of bbc documentary based on behind the scenes at parliament, they mostly come across as in a bubble, and QT and rowdy debates carried on as a performance sport for their assorted egos, rather than a back and forth debate, featuring lots of logic and intelligent reflection.

And the programme also revealed the televised segments like QT don't actually pick up all the shouty comments and partisan rowdiness, it's actually worse than what we see and hear.

 

[pinnit2014]

What i want to see debated head on, rather than the point scoring of 'poor people, struggling to fill plates at tea time' (tell that to the cousin i know on UC who has more money than me), is a party than cuts across all spectrums; not just focused on top earners or who are on on Living wage, but recognises that there's a middle ground growing completely apathetic and lost.

 

[slot_zombie]

Floella Benjamin has resigned. New Home Secretary required.

 

[goatwack]

Braverman's been undermined at pretty much every turn, that is, when she's not been excluded from meetings pertaining to her own job!

I actually thought this Home Secretary showed promise, albeit three weeks' worth, and the best appointment they'd made in what must be years.

Yet what is becoming patently obvious is that working 'with' Truss in any professional capacity is an excercise in futility, as she likes to override everything, after which she'll let that person take the fall.

Not the kind of job attractiveness I'd call 'finger-licking good'. And ruthlessness is one thing, if you're, say, Thatcher. Not so much if you're a serial U-turner that can't stand the heat. I'd rate her job survivability at 'November seems so long away' levels...

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Four Chancellors in four months and three Home Secretaries in six weeks.

Thank the lord we avoided chaos with Ed Miliband.

In 2016 Cameron gave us the referendum and frankly it's all been a complete shitshow since then.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Oh right so Cruella leaked a confidential government document and broke the ministerial code, so yeah, that's a sacking offence.

 

[goatwack]

So.....she 'quit' after having knowingly breached processes, I take it Braverman's statement(s) about what she intended to do would have been 'different' to what we'd have been fed after it's been moderated?

Frustration I take it? Knowing her position was unworkable? Either way, not the right way to go about it. Not like it'll make people think any less of Truss!

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So.....she 'quit' after having knowingly breached processes, I take it Braverman's statement(s) about what she intended to do would have been 'different' to what we'd have been fed after it's been moderated?

Frustration I take it? Knowing her position was unworkable? Either way, not the right way to go about it. Not like it'll make people think any less of Truss!

Apparently someone complained about her and the resignation came from that.

But yes, if you wanted a quick way out then this would be the way to do it.

Who can even say anymore with this shower of clowns? In fact, I take that back, it's unfair on clowns.

 

[goatwack]

It's just outright aggravating at this point. Since late June we had Johnson's days numbered after the Pincher scandal, after which we watched the party and its 3rd-rate Days Of Our Lives leadership contest, which has yielded........nowt

Three/ four months on and they've not only wasted their own time, but the country's, because one'd have to be pretty blinkered not to see a repeat leadership coup on the horizon.

Meanwhile, the country watches on in sheer anger and bemusement as the Tories waste months getting their house in order, and likely the reason why these issues are best resolved when not in power, and when obligated to run the country (I'd like to reiterate that nobody voted this torch-passing lot in)

 

[ChopleyIOM]

This made me laugh.

My custom user title can't keep up with this lot.

 

[goatwack]

Oh bloody hell. Placing Grant Shapps as Home Secretary almost instantaneously should not only cause Truss to resign out of shame, but there should be a clause that triggers a GE based on that alone

 

[goatwack]

There goes the Chief Whip. Hr-tish!

 

[megadam]

Jacob Rees Mogg manhandling MPs now as well. You really honestly couldn't make this lunacy up ?
?

 

[dunover]

I hear they've swapped the signs around on Downing St. and Coronation St.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Utterly damning from Charles Walker, a Tory MP of seventeen years, you can see how absolutely furious and broken he is by this unbelievable shitshow.

I have never seen anything like the current farce in my entire lifetime. Shame on the Tories, shame on what they have done to our parliament, to our institutions, and to our standing in the world - they've made us an international fucking laughing stock.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

If Labour had wrought one fucking percent of the carnage the Tories have created in the last six years people would say they'd never be fit to govern again.

Remember this, remember how low the Tories have brought this country next time you cast your vote in a general election.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

If Labour had wrought one fucking percent of the carnage the Tories have created in the last six years people would say they'd never be fit to govern again.

Remember this, remember how low the Tories have brought this country next time you cast your vote in a general election.

Don’t worry, I still remember the damage New Labour did. So I’m sure with how shouty the ‘left’ tend to be, current events won’t be forgotten.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Don’t worry, I still remember the damage New Labour did. So I’m sure with how shouty the ‘left’ tend to be, current events won’t be forgotten.

I know a lot of people didn't like New Labour's policy on immigration and I can certainly understand why given the impact it had on some areas of the UK and the people who lived/worked there.

Honestly, I had a bit of a blind spot on this and didn't quite grasp the extent of what happened (we have immigration on the IOM too but in a very different way), there's a great long read here that filled in a lot of the blanks for me - so yes, I get the anger over that:

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But beyond that, what 'damage' did they do? The global financial crash of 2008 wasn't their fault, the same as Covid and the war in Ukraine aren't the fault of the Tories.

(Of course there's the war in Iraq, which is unforgivable and makes Blair an unredeemable character.)

It's maybe hard to remember now but the UK's response to the crash of 2008 was seen as timely and effective, and indeed the UK was a leader on the world stage at the time. The terrible mistake Brown made was not having the courage to go to the country quickly (when he was seen very favourably), and instead allowed the Tories and the right wing press to spin up the narrative that it was a Labour engineered crisis.

On a great number of metrics, New Labour did a pretty decent job of running the country, were they perfect? Hell no, but looking at where the UK is after twelve years of Tory rule, I'd say New Labour did a much better job of it.

The problem the Tory party has now is that it's essentially unleadable and collectively mad, out in the real world there's nothing to show for twelve years of their rule apart from decay and harm, crucially of course, Thatcherism had winners. The pivotal role that Brexit has played in all this is becoming increasingly clear, and many in the Tory ranks are still in collective denial about it - which makes it impossible for them to move forward and reform themselves into a party that can win an election.

 

[shadow123]

Said on Sky news some Tory mp,s went to bed crying last night, how sad .
Reckon a little punt on Boris to return is not out the question, as the party is tearing itself to bits trying
to find anyone competent and with the support to take over.Never seen a party self destruct like this lot, if Truss is so
bad why the fuck did they give her the job

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Said on Sky news some Tory mp,s went to bed crying last night, how sad .
Reckon a little punt on Boris to return is not out the question, as the party is tearing itself to bits trying
to find anyone competent and with the support to take over.Never seen a party self destruct like this lot, if Truss is so
bad why the fuck did they give her the job

Because the decision to install Truss as PM was left to a tiny cohort of wealthy Brexity pensioners who refuse to believe that the Brexit Dream has died and Truss was telling them what they wanted to hear.

Sunak also made the mistake of telling the truth about Truss's economic plans (and he was 100% correct of course, as events have proved since), whereas Truss was still off in her fantasy world, the same one where Brexit exists, so the dreamworld pensioners doubled down and went for Truss.

Remember, she was far from a popular choice with her own MPs, although they also bungled terribly in allowing her to get to the final two.

I called it back in July, anyone who follows UK politics could see this one coming a mile off.

UK Conservative Party Leadership Election - Casinomeister Forum

 

[slot_zombie]

The Lectern has been wheeled outside Downing Street...

 

[ChopleyIOM]

The Lectern has been wheeled outside Downing Street...

COME ON LETTUCE YOU CAN DO IT.

 

[slot_zombie]

It did!

 

[Webzcas]

 

[ChopleyIOM]

 

[Kroffe]

The game was rigged from the start, no matter how she performed she would never outlast the lettuce.

'When questioned as to how long they think it takes a head of lettuce to decompose on average, several citizens guesstimate anywhere from three or four days up to six months. The answer? A staggering 25 years. For one head of lettuce.'