Topgame Slots - Rogue software?

[Casinomeister]

I really don't have to answer you for the simple reason that I believe it has been done.

The Jackpot will be put back as soon as our QA is done and we are satisfied the games are working working correctly. we have no intention to take anything away from players and have stated that several times, We shall respond to any related issue in our own way.

on a personal note - I have been here before and don't get scared by your intimidation and enjoyment you seem to get from it.

Ethics are part of our Deal and shall remain so.

tx

Jonathan

Does your boss know you are posting these comments in this forum? Just wondering.

 

[Pinababy69]

I really don't have to answer you for the simple reason that I believe it has been done.

The Jackpot will be put back as soon as our QA is done and we are satisfied the games are working working correctly. we have no intention to take anything away from players and have stated that several times, We shall respond to any related issue in our own way.

on a personal note - I have been here before and don't get scared by your intimidation and enjoyment you seem to get from it.

Ethics are part of our Deal and shall remain so.

tx

Jonathan

You don't have to answer me because WHAT has been done? Not following you Jan, sorry. Do you mean the progressive has been put back? No, that's not what you mean. You don't have to answer me at all. What you're still not getting is that it's not just me, it's everyone here. Do you think I'm the only one reading this thread? We know that's not the case, don't we?

Okay, so the JP will be returned to the pool when the game is working corrrectly. That's very good news indeed. Still doesn't explain why it was removed in the first place does it? When Eviecakes posted on May 26th, the jackpot had been removed at that time. That was a full 21 days before you publicly admitted that the wilds were indeed missing. So taking it from there, that means we KNOW it wasn't removed because you thought the game wasn't playing properly right? Matter of fact, you told the poster more than once prior to yesterday that there was no problems with the games at all. So what earthly reason does a casino have to just randomly remove a progressive jackpot from the pool? I've racked my brain, but can't come up with one. I hope you can enlighten me.

On a personal note....no need to get personal. Sorry if you don't like the questions, but all I've done is present the facts as they are. I apologize if I couldn't tailor them to be more casino rep friendly. I do think you'd be well served to keep in mind how many players read this forum on a daily basis, and remember that you are representing a product that you are trying to sell to those players.

Intimidation? If someone asking you some direct questions intimidates you, maybe you're in the wrong line of work? I think Bryan asked you a specific question re: having permission to publish full email correspondence....are you also intimidated by that?

Will be watching and waiting for the jackpot to be reinstated Jan.

 

[jetset]

These are very serious questions revolving around software fairness, potentially prejudiced players (who knows how many players may have been pouring money into this progressive whilst the Wilds were AWOL) and a rep with a rather unfortunate attitude who just does not seem to grasp the significance and importance of the issue.

Time surely for someone in authority at Topgame to get involved here in a serious attempt to sort this out before a decline to the Rogue Pit commences.

 

[Rusty]

Wow,
This thread has gone a long way in a short time.
I think Pinababy has been right on top of this and has asked all the pertinent questions so I am really only here to add my support.

We have several issues here from large to huge from business ethics to rigged software.

I will turn my attention to the software issue.

We really need a proper explanation on this as explaining missing symbols as a bug seems not to be credible unless they made some deliberate changes to the game mechanics and programming.

As I understand it the software functioned normally for a unspecified time but then over a period of a few Weeks it played an unfair game as the most player friendly symbols (Wilds) were missing from certain reels on certain games.

As it is impossible for this situation to just suddenly develop without any changes to the programming of the game we need to know when changes were made to these games, what these changes entailed and what was the purpose of these changes was and most importantly how this resulted in Wild symbols going AWOL.

I could very easy speculate about this but until Topgame respond with an appropriate response and technical explanation I will say no more than that.

All players who played these games with the missing symbols should be fully compensated as previously stated by PinaBaby.

This currently looks very bad for Topgame and I would urge them to respond to this thread as quickly as possible.

 

[Pinababy69]

These are very serious questions revolving around software fairness, potentially prejudiced players (who knows how many players may have been pouring money into this progressive whilst the Wilds were AWOL) and a rep with a rather unfortunate attitude who just does not seem to grasp the significance and importance of the issue.

Time surely for someone in authority at Topgame to get involved here in a serious attempt to sort this out before a decline to the Rogue Pit commences.

In total agreement Jetset, and thanks for stating it so concisely.

Wow,
This thread has gone a long way in a short time.
I think Pinababy has been right on top of this and has asked all the pertinent questions so I am really only here to add my support.

We have several issues here from large to huge from business ethics to rigged software.

I will turn my attention to the software issue.

We really need a proper explanation on this as explaining missing symbols as a bug seems not to be credible unless they made some deliberate changes to the game mechanics and programming.

As I understand it the software functioned normally for a unspecified time but then over a period of a few Weeks it played an unfair game as the most player friendly symbols (Wilds) were missing from certain reels on certain games.

As it is impossible for this situation to just suddenly develop without any changes to the programming of the game we need to know when changes were made to these games, what these changes entailed and what was the purpose of these changes was.

I could very easy speculate about this but until Topgame respond with an appropriate response and technical explanation I will say no more than that.

All players who played these games with the missing symbols should be fully compensated as previously stated by PinaBaby.

This currently looks very bad for Topgaming and I would urge them to respond to this thread and consider that there answer will be highly scrutinised by the informed player community that exists here.

Praise the Lord, someone who understands the workings of software and the programming of same. I'm not ashamed to say that aspect of this whole thing is beyond me, and I am extremely thankful that you will be here to interpret that part of any reply that TopGame may make. Thanks Rusty.

 

[Rusty]

Praise the Lord, someone who understands the workings of software and the programming of same. I'm not ashamed to say that aspect of this whole thing is beyond me, and I am extremely thankful that you will be here to interpret that part of any reply that TopGame may make. Thanks Rusty.

Thanks Pinababy,
There are plenty of forum members here who are savvy in the various fields relevant to this and who right now are on full bullshit alert, let's put it that way.
Thanks again for bringing this very important issue with the Topgame brand to the forums attention.

 

[bb28]

on a personal note - I have been here before and don't get scared by your intimidation and enjoyment you seem to get from it.

Jonathan

When I read that comment, it really ticked me off. In defense of Pina and she doesn't need defending but I want to put my 2 cents in regardless. Pina is passionate about fairness, nothing more. She is outspoken sure and yes sometimes she might step on a few toes in voicing her concern but so what, we are adults and her motives have absolutely nothing to do with intimidating anyone or getting any perverse enjoyment from taking a stand in the name of fairness. If you bothered....to read some of her posts, you'd find that she doesn't grandstand and she is very fair minded and willingly admits if she is wrong. You also might be surprised to know that she is actually very caring and kind if you'd bother to look past your defensive posturing. Also you might note that she didn't stoop down to your level and take it personal.
Yep I'm in Pina's fan club and damn proud of it!!

Now let's get back to the real issue.

 

[jas2587]

heyyyyyy I played this game did a deposit of $50 got a 200% bonus
oops this game is Douguies Delights I did manga e a cashout
but now I wonder how much would I have cashed out if the game was programmed right

I feel slaughtered

Cindy

 

[WonderingSpirit]

2. please this is out of proportion - emails are for everybody to see today.

That reply alone is worthy of losing many customers. Incredibly f...n arrogant and stupid answer.

So if its ok for everyone to see, i would assume its ok for your casino to sell the email listings you have gathered from your casino. Its for everybody to see anyway, right? Many spammers like to buy decent sized lists.

 

[Pinababy69]

Wow, you guys have been busy little beavers, haven't you? LOL....

Good digging BB!! While the thread you have dug up may not be directly related to this particular issue, I do believe that bet size on this slot is somewhat relevant, when you take into account the people who may have indeed played it at $45 a spin, with NO chance of ever winning the JP.

I'm gonna reply to some of this in a bit, but wanted to thank Thebes Casino for participating in the thread and being willing to jump into the fire, so to speak. I realize you can't speak for TopGame themselves, only for your own brand, but your input is appreciated. Nice to see some professionalism from that side of the fence.

I went and checked the threads at the GPWA, and look what I found. This is the only new post. Big Daddy is the admin at the CasinoScamReport forum. My account at his forum is now active, and I will be posting over there, and inviting him (and Eviecakes) to join in our discussion. Jonathan thinks he didn't like me yesterday? He's going to like me alot less when I start posting this issue on every single forum I belong to, including affiliate forums. CM's forum alone can do the Google thing, but we all know Google loves links. Nothing wrong with adding a few more right?

Posted by BigDaddy at the GPWA Forum on June 17th (post #6):

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Really no need for a software audit now because Jonathan the senior VP of Top Games (Rome Casino's software) admitted that the software had a glitch. They also pulled all 3 games in question from the software but this morning the games were back online with NO FIX!!!

In other words Rome Casino is allowing their players to play jackpot games that their is no chance in hell of ever winning.

I could go on and on but bottom line is that I'm done with them until they fix their software. They are officially Blacklisted on our website.

I don't know this BigDaddy, but I think he is someone I am going to like very much. Hope I can get him to participate here.

In the meantime, as I asked last night, does anyone here have an account at any of the TopGame casinos that they could try these games out to verify the claim made above? Or will their software even allow you to play a progressive game in fun mode? I know that some don't.

I see the Pit becoming more of a reality if the above statement is indeed true.

 

[Pinababy69]

Okay, this is getting even more confusing. My friend Jonathan posted this about an hour ago at the CSR forum:

Posted by Jonathan (TopGame Rep) on June 18th:

Hi

ok the games were pulled and checked - and put back yesterday - BUT not in the Jackpot area - most of the confusion is related that the wild symbols are required to win the Jackpot now that is true but not so in the normal game were the wild can appear in any line.

so to clear maybe any confusion - the wild symbols missing in line 1 and 5 is only related to the Jackpot games and not relevant in the normal game - The jackpot games are not back yet.

anybody can contact me personally if he believes he was inconvenienced in any way

hope this clears it up

Jonathan

Software check on aisle three. Is he saying that even though this is NOT the jackpot/progressive version, that having wilds missing on reels 1 and 5 does NOT affect the game's payouts? I find this incredible to believe to be honest. Do the wilds not act as a true "wild" symbol, and substitute as other symbols in a winning combination?

I feel like I'm flying blind here, because I'm not familiar with the software itself. So again, if someone can help me out, I'd appreciate it.

 

[maxd]

The Thebes Casino stuff has been moved to bb28's Thebes Casino thread.

 

[jetset]

I should perhaps have added "lacking in respect for player privacy" to my post as well, but I felt that Bryan had already dealt with that directly with Topgame's rep Jan.Strydom.

Nevertheless, his/her attitude regarding the privacy of player emails should be noted among the other shortcomings exposed in this thread.

In Topgames unenviable position here, I believe I would be monitoring this thread at least three times a day as this issue escalates, and taking action to address/redress the problems.....the fact that there has been no current Topgame reaction to these extremely serious issues surrounding both its software and its attitude to the players suggests either that this is not being done, or that those concerned have such contempt for the players that they can't be bothered.

Either way, that points to a remarkable lack of professional management and care for their business imo.

 

[jas2587]

I have uninstalled all their casino's the bull they put me thru for a small cashout was out of line an now I find that game I played had bugs an it was brought to their attention way before I played an didnt do a damn thing to remedy it hell I could maybe have cashed out oh at least 1k as I was being brave an betting $9 a spin I never do that

I guess what these casino peeps dont realize if players are unhappy they walk away with a uninstall an NEVER look back as there are so many other we can for sure play at an be given a fair shake

Cindy

 

[Rusty]

I should perhaps have added "lacking in respect for player privacy" to my post as well, but I felt that Bryan had already dealt with that directly with Topgame's rep Jan.Strydom.

Nevertheless, his/her attitude regarding the privacy of player emails should be noted among the other shortcomings exposed in this thread.

In Topgames unenviable position here, I believe I would be monitoring this thread at least three times a day as this issue escalates, and taking action to address/redress the problems.....the fact that there has been no current Topgame reaction to these extremely serious issues surrounding both its software and its attitude to the players suggests either that this is not being done, or that those concerned have such contempt for the players that they can't be bothered.

Either way, that points to a remarkable lack of professional management and care for their business imo.

I could not agree more which is why I questioned if Topgame were aware of this thread - the clock is ticking.
Bryan have you had any contact with Topgame?
How long do they have to respond to these extremely serious issues before the forum has to draw its own conclusions?

If they are hoping by not responding that the fuel for this fire will burn out they are very much mistaken.
They owe an explanation to all their players.

 

[lots0]

...that those concerned have such contempt for the players that they can't be bothered.

This is the attitude I am getting from these people at top game. Behind the seines these folk at top game seem to 'Blame' all the problems on 'Bad' players...

When I asked a top game rep a few days ago about some shady goings on at one of their licensed casinos. I was told it was just another bad player causing problems... It wasn't, unless you think a player is 'Bad' if they complain about getting ripped off.

******

Top Game or the casino SHOULD repay ALL the players that played those slots during the time that the slots were missing those winning symbols.

IMO, anything less than paying/refunding ALL the players is THEFT by the casino's involved and TopGame their software provider.

 

[Pinababy69]

This is the attitude I am getting from these people at top game. Behind the seines these folk at top game seem to 'Blame' all the problems on 'Bad' players...

When I asked a top game rep a few days ago about some shady goings on at one of their licensed casinos. I was told it was just another bad player causing problems... It wasn't, unless you think a player is 'Bad' if they complain about getting ripped off.

******

Top Game or the casino SHOULD repay ALL the players that played those slots during the time that the slots were missing those winning symbols.

IMO, anything less than paying/refunding ALL the players is THEFT by the casino's involved and TopGame their software provider.

In regards to repaying the players Lots0, it came to light last night, in the thread that BB had dug up.....that in order to win the progressive on the particular game in question, the player had to be betting $45 a spin. I mean, come on....$45 a spin? Whales okay...I can see it. But the average player?

And I don't believe the paytable as it is now clearly reflects that. From my understanding, it says something like Max Bet must be played. What it should say is max bet at max coinsize right? So, a $5 coin on all nine lines. I wonder how many people even realize that? I don't play progressives, but don't most progressives usually have a fixed betsize/coin size? And it's usually anywhere from maybe 75c up to $5? You may have the option of betting one or two coins, and only able to win the JP with two coins bet. But you can't fiddle around with the coin sizes. How many people have played this slot betting say $2.25 (25c a line), thinking they were going for the jackpot?

But more relevant, is how many players actually did log on during those weeks this game was cheating, and play $45 a spin? Without ever having a chance to win the jackpot. It's sick.

I cannot believe that Topgame thinks this will just go away. And I'd still like clarification of WHY the jackpot was removed in the first place? They've put the non-progressive versions of these games back online...but are there any wilds on reels 1 and 5? According to that post at the GPWA, there isn't. So how can the machine possibly be paying out correctly with symbols missing, jackpot aside. Don't the wild symbols still counts as wilds?

I'm dumbfounded at TopGame's lack of response, and I'm somewhat surprised that more players aren't screaming their heads off about this.

Anyone here still remember the English Harbour thread? I can't help but compare the two situations, as they both relate to software that was basically cheating players out of winnings. What's the difference? In that instance, English Harbour was left with no choice but to compensate all players affected. Their faulty software was only active for a few days I believe, this TopGame gaffed version has been there for weeks!!

EDIT: I went back and quickly checked the EH thread (a whopping 83 pages btw) and my mistake, their faulty software was in play for 19 days, so about the same time as this. Of course we're not even sure how long this has been active at TopGame, all I know is that someone originally posted about it on May 26th, and she had ALREADY emailed Rome Casino about it. Who knows how long before her post it was that she emailed them the first time? And who knows how long she played the software without realizing the symbols were missing. Will we ever know? Will TopGame ever pull their heads out of the sand?

 

[Rusty]

This wont really clarify anything but it is extra information worth having.

A forum member of ours brought to our attention that the Rome Casino software (Top Gaming) is corrupt because on some of the video slots the wilds are not showing up on reels 1 and 5. In order to win the jackpot on games like Diablo 13 and Douguies Delights a player needs to have 5 wilds on 5 reels. Well the way the software is now that would be impossible since it is obvious there are no wild symbols on the 1 and 5 reels.

We have contacted Rome about this problem and pointed them to our forum and the senior VP of Top Gaming did respond but never addressed the issue of the missing wild symbols and how a player can't possibly win the jackpot.

Now Diablo 13 is unavailable in fun mode but Douguie's Delights can be played.
On the paytable it does not mention that Wilds are restricted to reels 2,3 and 4 but this is clearly the case as their is no payout listed for 5 wild symbols. (see screenshots)
Now I do not know if this has been changed since the complaint or if the OP involved with the quote above was mistaken about this slot being,
A) A Jackpot slot
B) Having 5 Wild symbols

This needs further clarification.
Unfortunately the slot which I know is for a fact a Jackpot slot Diablo 13 I can't access to get more information.
Perhaps jas5287 can reinstall the software or someone else with a real play account can get screenshots of the paytable for us?

Old Attachment (Invalid)
Old Attachment (Invalid)

 

[jetset]

THE WILDS THAT WENT AWOL

What is happening at Top Game?

Alarming reports are accumulating across several Internet gambling message boards regarding what appears to be mysteriously missing Wild symbols on Top Game-powered video slots offered at Rome Casino.com.

Apparently the Wilds went AWOL instead of appearing on reels 1 and 5 in games like Diablo 13, Wild Sevens and Douguies Delights, creating a potential for prejudice among players using these games and rendering it virtual impossible for them to win.

Rome Casino managers were warned about the missing symbols, which help to build winning combinations, after several webmasters had played and confirmed the player complaints.

There are reports that Rome Casino officials claimed to have taken the affected games off the Internet and fixed the fault, but that these claims later proved to be false.

No public and official explanation has yet been offered by either Top Game or Rome Casino, and it is unknown whether the flaw has impacted the same games carried on a number of other Top Game online casinos.

Major player and affiliate information portals like Casinomeister and the GPWA are currently carrying ongoing discussions on the issue, urging both Top Game and Rome Casino to come forward and explain what caused the flaw and how it is being addressed, particularly in relation to players who used the games without knowing that they had no chance of winning.

 

[bb28]

I found this little gem in Rome's Term's and Conditons, "If a player attempts to defraud the Casino or is proven to be a cheat by making false or given false information in order to secure a place in the casino, or maligns the casino in any way with false accusation or libelous statements, Rome Casino will pursue the perpetrator using the full extent of law enforcement and its agencies in order to safeguard its reputation and will instigate any legal suits for damages against the said player and prosecute accordingly."

You can read the full terms Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) , the above was item #20.
It also appears that Rome has opened a sister site called Diceland Casino according to a post over at No Luck Needed. Diceland also has the same statement in their terms and conditions as the above.

So is this freakin unreal or what? They are telling you NOT to say anything about them that could be construed as libelous?

FYI, according to Top Games website there are 18 different casino's using this software.

 

[Casinomeister]

...Nevertheless, his/her attitude regarding the privacy of player emails should be noted among the other shortcomings exposed in this thread...Either way, that points to a remarkable lack of professional management and care for their business imo.

I've been waiting for Top Games' rep to answer my question earlier - it wasn't a rhetorical one - it was a serious one. "Does your boss know you are posting these comments?"

Jan.Strydom, Jonathan, whoever, is underwhelming me with his postings. I am still reeling over the Rome Casino chat section from the other thread (I'm not finished with that issue yet) - and this situation is just putting the icing on the cake.

I wouldn't touch one of these casinos with a barge pole.

Where is the due diligence? Where is the player trust? Why does it seem that these casinos have a contemptuous attitude toward players AND this forum?

Bryan have you had any contact with Topgame?
How long do they have to respond to these extremely serious issues before the forum has to draw its own conclusions?

The ball is in their court, and I've been waiting to see how proactive they could be about this...

Top Game or the casino SHOULD repay ALL the players that played those slots during the time that the slots were missing those winning symbols...

I agree. I don't understand the lack of activity here. Most reputable software providers would have tackled this with both feet running to ensure players are treated fairly, and to instill trust - it would have been the appropriate thing to do. Looks like someone slept through Online Casino Management 101.

Anyone here still remember the English Harbour thread? I can't help but compare the two situations...

Actually, this reminds me of when Mansion Casino (when they were using proprietary software) had a glitch in their VP. When you folded cards, sometimes you'd get these redealt to you. They took the game offline and refunded all losses. I got about $60 back

That's par for the course. If your software is screwy, take the game offline and pay the players back.

 

[jas2587]

This wont really clarify anything but it is extra information worth having.

A forum member of ours brought to our attention that the Rome Casino software (Top Gaming) is corrupt because on some of the video slots the wilds are not showing up on reels 1 and 5. In order to win the jackpot on games like Diablo 13 and Douguies Delights a player needs to have 5 wilds on 5 reels. Well the way the software is now that would be impossible since it is obvious there are no wild symbols on the 1 and 5 reels.

We have contacted Rome about this problem and pointed them to our forum and the senior VP of Top Gaming did respond but never addressed the issue of the missing wild symbols and how a player can't possibly win the jackpot.

Now Diablo 13 is unavailable in fun mode but Douguie's Delights can be played.
On the paytable it does not mention that Wilds are restricted to reels 2,3 and 4 but this is clearly the case as their is no payout listed for 5 wild symbols. (see screenshots)
Now I do not know if this has been changed since the complaint or if the OP involved with the quote above was mistaken about this slot being,
A) A Jackpot slot
B) Having 5 Wild symbols

This needs further clarification.
Unfortunately the slot which I know is for a fact a Jackpot slot Diablo 13 I can't access to get more information.
Perhaps jas5287 can reinstall the software or someone else with a real play account can get screenshots of the paytable for us?

Old Attachment (Invalid)
Old Attachment (Invalid)

here ya go hope they come out all right

Cindy

Middle symbol top picture says
Wild symbol substitutes for all symbols except scatter an bonus
5 wild symbols with a combination of all lines an max bets wins jackpot


the second screen shot is the bonus round it says pick a door an we will see what Luck has in place for you

the game is so dark it is very hard to read on the screenie
max bet is $5 per line so if all lines are selected 13 xs 5 = 65 bucks

 

[jas2587]

boy that is lousy I will see if my Jessica can do better

Cindy

 

[Rusty]

boy that is lousy I will see if my Jessica can do better

Cindy

Can you make them bigger Cindy?
Especially the paytable.
It looks as though there is no prizes listed for Wilds at all?

What would 5 Wilds pay if not the Jackpot?
I assume the same as the top paying symbol but it could just as easily be Zero according that paytable.
One important thing though is that we know this game does gave 5 Wild symbols so the missing wilds on reel 1 and 5 is still a very big issue to put it mildly.

max bet is $5 per line so if all lines are selected 13 xs 5 = 65 bucks

So much worse even than the $45 we were previously told it was.
There are so many issues here I think my head is about to explode.

 

[jas2587]

my daughter is telling me to hang on so like 5 minutes

Cindy