this says it all

[RedAndi]

Since I'm from Sweden I did read that article and it's scary how people will believe anything that is printed. Except for being 4 years old there isn't much that is correct in it, mostly it looks like something I would expect to read in politcial material spread by the swedish national socialist party or whatever name they would be using now. Maybe you would want to reevaluate your sources a bit.

Yeah there are a ton of other sources on this issue. I read about this before Mavin posted it. Just google it, it has been in the news quite a bit in recent months. Are you saying the rest of the world media is blowing it out of proportion?

**I should clarify, I did not check out Mavins article. I glanced because I thought it was regarding the Politician in Sweden who was trying to pass a law restricting Muslim immigration. I am not sure if the issues are related but if you google Swedish Muslims it appears to be a source of tension.

 

[lost2much]

jod, are you hispanic. That is the only explanation I can come up with for your militancy. If so, I can understand your passion for the other side of this issue. My posts are very rational compared to yours that suggest that the law is only a suggestion and not an absolute. Yeah, now that is rational!LOL

 

[jod5413]

jod, are you hispanic. That is the only explanation I can come up with for your militancy. If so, I can understand your passion for the other side of this issue. My posts are very rational compared to yours that suggest that the law is only a suggestion and not an absolute. Yeah, now that is rational!LOL

No, your posts are NOT rational.

I could be white, black, brown, red, what the Hell does that have to do with voicing an opinion? Militancy? Good Lord, get real.

lost2much, you really have "lost too much" in the rational thinking mode.

Take a break.

I really am NOW DONE with this idiocy.

 

[lost2much]

hmm, who sounds like the raving lunatic now?? You seem to get off on being loud and obnoxious. Too bad you can't formulate an argument as well as you tell others what to think and do. I hope you really are done, kind of getting tired of being screamed at by you. I mean are you so angry at your life that you have to tell me what to do and think and say. Ah, never mind, you're just not worth the effort. As the saying says, don't go away mad, just.............

 

[LaurieJim]

I have always been one to voice my opinion as anyone who knows me will tell you when it comes to politics.

Politics is a nasty beast that will rear its many ugly heads everytime people dont agree, thats how its fed.

I try to see every point even when i dont agree, name calling doesnt get your point across and you should always be prepared to back up what you post even if its just your own opinion and use respect, thats what we lack most of all in this country and our goverment has forgotten this as well.

Times are hard and bad right now and everyone is up in arms, the only way to ever solve a problem is to use your voice in a reasoning way to talk and debate it, not to put down others for what they believe as not all will be on the same side of an issue.

It doesnt make one political side better than the other, just as no person is better than another imo, there should always be two sides to a good debate and they both should always show respect, even when its a heated one.

Just my 2.5 cents worth

Laurie

 

[winbig]

Some food for thought:

"If you can't respect others, how can you respect yourself?"

And for those of you that are religious, how about the golden rule?

"Do unto others as you would have others do unto you"

 

[Casinomeister]

Chill pill prescription

Jeeze people - what's with the racial comments? I can understand being upset at the system, or at the greedy corporations that condone hiring illegal immigrants - but this has nothing to do with race - it's economics. If millions of Finish people were being ferried in to work and stay in the US illegally, it would still be the same problem. Mexicans or Hispanics have nothing to do with it - it's the system that needs to be fixed.

Don't let anger or shortsightedness get the best of you. And yes, that photo is bogus. You shouldn't believe everything that you see or read on the Internet.

I'll leave the thread open if you all promise to be cool. Thank you.

 

[felicie]

And a big reason why nothing ever changes in this country. We're all too busy blaming everyone except the ones that deserve it. It's about money, votes and power. not race. I don't want to pay the way of my damn relatives if they come for a visit if the first thing they do is want a ride to the welfare office. And they are sidewalk-white like me last time I looked. And where are all these jobs that americans feel too superior to hold? All my fruits & veggies in California come from Bolivia or some other s. american country. Farmlands are pretty much a thing of the past around here and are going the same way as the oil business. To other countries. So why come here? For a ride to the welfare office thats why. Can you blame them? even if they are one of the few that do get returned, their kids will get a free teeth cleaning while their here at least. If you want to go start a new life in a more appealing country to be happy law abiding productive citizens, you don't go in with no money, under the fence in the back of a mini van. If that was the correct procedure my family would still be in Sweden.
And for those of you with children in elementary school. How does it feel knowing your sweet little vaccinated pumpkin is sharing sweat and spit with another little one from a country whose children are still dying from whooping cough just to name one.
Wake up America although it may be too late since with elections coming up and no one enforcing those laws either which will certainly put a slant on the total outcome and like it or not, it will be in favor of the democrats.

 

[lost2much]

Absolutely correct Felicie. You are right Bryan, not about race (hispanics are caucasians of dark complexion) I also agree that there are many culprits in this problem, but we really could solve this problem by simply enforcing the law as it exists today. Here in california, the welcome mat is out to any and all who can sneak their way in and it has to stop. These same folks that want amnesty for them then have to pay for these people, and california is broke! My son will start 3rd grade this fall and we are already told there will be 30+ kids in his class, along with the translators for the illegal kids. The emergency rooms are flooded with illegals who pay nothing for their care, while regular citizens are going bankrupt just because they got sick.

To all, I do get very passionate in this arena as I am living right in the middle of the entire nightmare. I don't hate mexicans, I hate mexicans who snub their noses at our laws, don't pay their way, and even if they are honest hard workers, don't even make an effort to assimilate to the american culture. If coming to america doesn't involve becoming an american, why come at all? It is for all the benefits that our insane govt provides to all who just show up. Do other countries allow this?? Mexico certainly doesn't. Did you know that if you are in mexico illegally and you are run over by a car ( or injured in some way) it is illegal for a mexican citizen to even give aid to you!! Seems as if we are suppose to bend over backwards for them while they shoot us the bird the whole time we are doing it. It is senseless and stupid. Also, as Felcie stated, all our produce is imported from other countries in california. The local growers export everything to other countries (better prices I would imagine). So the "whos gonna pick the fruit" argument just doesn't fly.

 

[kauphy]

what gets me is this. if we rent a house or buy a house or have to go to the hospital and we can,t pay at the time they send us a bill and if we don,t pay that they go after us or put a lean against something we own or take money out of r paycheck. but what happens when they do it. no one can go after them so the hospital takes a lose and then its passed down to us who do pay. aww the u.s is going to hell and i don,t think it can be stoped. not just from this but everything that has been happing the last year and 1/2.

 

[lost2much]

I fear you may be right Kauphy. Good bye sweet america!

 

[winbig]

How about this one to boil your blood?

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So people with OK credit have a hard time getting a credit card, but someone with no credit history at all, let alone a social security number, could get a credit card without any problem?

So who was left footing that bill, when ppl max out these credit cards and leave the bank hanging? Legal Americans, that's who. Not directly, but we pay for it with higher interest rates, stricter restrictions in getting (more) credit, etc. How about the small businesses that legitimately need more credit, but can't because of all these new stricter regulations?

...and how are they going to go after the illegals that did skip on a maxed out CC? I'm sure there were some that simply went to another BoA branch, opened another checking account, let that sit for 3 months, and took another CC and repeated the process over and over again.

Sure, they required them to have a 3 month history with BoA, and not have any OD fees within that 3 month period. Soooo.....I guess anyone could open an account and leave $1 in it, never use it, and get a credit card? wtf?

And what happened to the patriot act? This was in 2007, and unless things have changed inbetween 2001 and 2007, you actually needed a SS# and a valid state ID in order to get any account at any bank. So how were illegals getting an account in the first place??

sheesh.

edit: Illegals apparently can get an ITIN (individual taxpayer identification number) to open bank accounts, in place of a SS#.

How do I know if I need an ITIN?
If you do not have a SSN and are not eligible to obtain a SSN, but you have a requirement to furnish a federal tax identification number or file a federal income tax return, you must apply for an ITIN.
If you have an application for a SSN pending, do not file Form W-7. Complete Form W-7 only if the Social Security Administration (SSA) notifies you that a SSN cannot be issued.
To obtain a SSN, see Form SS-5, Application for a Social Security Card. To get Form SS-5 or to find out if you are eligible to obtain a SSN, go to Social Security Administration Website or contact a SSA office. By law, an alien individual cannot have both an ITIN and a SSN.
IRS processes returns showing SSNs or ITINs in the blanks where tax forms request SSNs. IRS no longer accepts, and will not process, forms showing "SSA205c," "applied for," "NRA," blanks, etc.

How do I apply for an ITIN?
Use the latest revision of Form W-7, Application for IRS Individual Taxpayer Identification Number to apply. Attach a valid federal income tax return, unless you qualify for an exception, and include your original, notarized, or certified proof of identity and foreign status documents.
Because you are filing your tax return as an attachment to your ITIN application, you should not mail your return to the address listed in the Form 1040, 1040A or 1040EZ instructions. Instead, send your return,

So I'm sure it's quite easy to send in fake documents to get this #...as long as they're notarized.

...and basically we're saying that it's ok to come across our borders illegally, as long as you get this tax number and pay taxes....lol

oh and this was in place way before Obama came into office, so let's not go there.

 

[GrandMaster]

The emergency rooms are flooded with illegals who pay nothing for their care, while regular citizens are going bankrupt just because they got sick.

The biggest users of emergency room medicine are poor citizens who have no health insurance, but anyone who proposes health care reform is denounced as a communist.

Mexico certainly doesn't. Did you know that if you are in mexico illegally and you are run over by a car ( or injured in some way) it is illegal for a mexican citizen to even give aid to you!!

Could you quote the law or is it something you heard from a friend who heard it from a friend? Exactly what steps is one supposed to carry out to determine the immigration status of an accident victim?

How about this one to boil your blood?

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So people with OK credit have a hard time getting a credit card, but someone with no credit history at all, let alone a social security number, could get a credit card without any problem?

So who was left footing that bill, when ppl max out these credit cards and leave the bank hanging? Legal Americans, that's who. Not directly, but we pay for it with higher interest rates, stricter restrictions in getting (more) credit, etc. How about the small businesses that legitimately need more credit, but can't because of all these new stricter regulations?

...and how are they going to go after the illegals that did skip on a maxed out CC? I'm sure there were some that simply went to another BoA branch, opened another checking account, let that sit for 3 months, and took another CC and repeated the process over and over again.

Sure, they required them to have a 3 month history with BoA, and not have any OD fees within that 3 month period. Soooo.....I guess anyone could open an account and leave $1 in it, never use it, and get a credit card? wtf?

And what happened to the patriot act? This was in 2007, and unless things have changed inbetween 2001 and 2007, you actually needed a SS# and a valid state ID in order to get any account at any bank. So how were illegals getting an account in the first place??

sheesh.

edit: Illegals apparently can get an ITIN (individual taxpayer identification number) to open bank accounts, in place of a SS#.





So I'm sure it's quite easy to send in fake documents to get this #...as long as they're notarized.

...and basically we're saying that it's ok to come across our borders illegally, as long as you get this tax number and pay taxes....lol

oh and this was in place way before Obama came into office, so let's not go there.

Are you aware that there are a lot of people in the US legally who are not eligible to get a SSN?

 

[maxd]

You guys must get a special kind of immigrant. Canada -- for example -- is full of immigrants and most of them just want to work, raise their families and live in peace. It doesn't really matter too much how badly some of them want welfare, or social assistance as we prefer to call it, if they don't have their papers then they don't get it (more or less). Not sure how them "wanting" it -- a claim I've yet to see properly documented -- creates a national catastrophe that requires the kind of hate and vitriol we're seeing in this thread.

As it happens I'm now an immigrant too, from Canada to Europe. Guess what, I just want to work and live in peace. Like most other immigrants do. My neighbourhood here is pretty much 80% immigrants: Africans, folks from the Middle East, the US, China, Thailand. Their situations are pretty much like mine: work, family, a better life. For the most part that's always been the immigrant story. The same was true in America some time ago.

When folks get angry and frustrated a lot seem to assume that "immigrant" means "filthy foreigner". They're not the same thing and if you think they are then that says a whole lot more about you than it does about them.

Not to fight fire with gasoline or anything.

 

[Casinomeister]

Come to think of it, I'm an "Auslander", but I work AND pay taxes but maintain my US citizenship. In Germany, the citizen "birth right" is much different than it is in the States. It is determined by the nationality of the parents, not location. So if a pregnant woman sneaks in from Timbuktu and has a baby here - it's not German but Timbuktuish. So there is no incentive to cross a border and have a baby that can reap benefits of citizenship.

On the flip side, this causes (in my opinion) a lack of incentive for "Auslanders" to integrate themselves into German society. Kids born to Turkish parents remain Turks; same goes for all the Russians and other Eastern Europeans here (and there are a lot of them).

There is no issue of illegal aliens here because you have to register to work. You also have to register with city hall any time you move somewhere showing all you legal documents (passports, etc.).

There is an issue of those who seek asylum. These people end up in a camp (more or less) and are not allowed to work for a year while their case is under review. People get a little riled up about that since it's quite costly - they receive a monthly stipend - don't know how much.

 

[winbig]

Are you aware that there are a lot of people in the US legally who are not eligible to get a SSN?

Those that are are here legally that are not eligible for social security numbers are visitors here on a Visa. Those that are here legally can of course apply for a SS#. If they're visitors to the USA, then why would they need a credit card?

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

Non-Resident Aliens NOT ELIGIBLE for Social Security Number
B1 Visitor for business
B2 Visitor for pleasure
F2 Spouse or dependent of F-1
H4 Spouse or dependent of H-1
J2 Spouse or dependent of J-1 (unless the individual has an I-688B card)
O3 Spouse or dependent of O-1
WB Visitor for business
WT Visitor for pleasure

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Foreign Workers And Social Security Numbers
SSA Publication No. 05-10107, August 2009

Social Security numbers are used to report an individual’s wages to the government and to determine a person’s eligibility for Social Security benefits. You need a Social Security number to get a job, collect Social Security benefits and receive some other government services.
If you are temporarily in the United States to work, your employer will ask for your Social Security number. In general, only noncitizens authorized by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to work in the United States can get a Social Security number.
Although many other businesses, such as banks and credit companies, also ask for your number, you are not required to provide it. You can get many services without a Social Security number, including a driver’s license.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

What do I have to do to work in the United States?

First, you must have documents showing your U.S. immigration status and authorization to work in the United States. Then, you should apply for a Social Security number and card from the Social Security Administration. We do, however, recommend you wait 10 days after arriving in the United States to apply for a Social Security number. This will ensure Social Security can verify your documents.

 

[GrandMaster]

Those that are are here legally that are not eligible for social security numbers are visitors here on a Visa. Those that are here legally can of course apply for a SS#. If they're visitors to the USA, then why would they need a credit card?

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A visitor might be a Canadian spending every winter in Florida, who might reasonably want a US bank account and credit card. Several categories on the list are usually not short term visitors, for example, F-2, H-4, O-3. Do you feel that if an American university appoints a foreign Nobel prize winner as a professor with an H-1 visa, her husband on an H-4 visa should not be able to get a credit card in the US under any circumstances?

 

[winbig]

Then she can apply for a SS# and get a credit card in her name, and add him as an authorized user on the card....easy enough..and that way, he gets his own card, but yet it's on her account.

 

[just play]

You guys must get a special kind of immigrant. Canada -- for example -- is full of immigrants and most of them just want to work, raise their families and live in peace. It doesn't really matter too much how badly some of them want welfare, or social assistance as we prefer to call it, if they don't have their papers then they don't get it (more or less). Not sure how them "wanting" it -- a claim I've yet to see properly documented -- creates a national catastrophe that requires the kind of hate and vitriol we're seeing in this thread.

As it happens I'm now an immigrant too, from Canada to Europe. Guess what, I just want to work and live in peace. Like most other immigrants do. My neighbourhood here is pretty much 80% immigrants: Africans, folks from the Middle East, the US, China, Thailand. Their situations are pretty much like mine: work, family, a better life. For the most part that's always been the immigrant story. The same was true in America some time ago.

When folks get angry and frustrated a lot seem to assume that "immigrant" means "filthy foreigner". They're not the same thing and if you think they are then that says a whole lot more about you than it does about them.

Not to fight fire with gasoline or anything.

Yes, but do you get health care and dentistry for free while other Europeans have to pay?

Did you sneak into that country?

Are you allowed luxouries that Europeans are not?


I am assuming the answers are no...that is the difference.


My friend a few miles away from me lived in a neighborhood that was poor. People from another country started moving in (I can't remember which country now, this was 25 years ago) they would get an apartment, car, and money from our government. While her family was sitting there practically starving, and both parents worked and they had only 2 children. The mother went down to the Welfare office to try and get some sort of help, she was denied...she made a few dollars more than she should have. I'm not lying, she made literally $1-2 more. (there is a standard how much you can make a month to be allowed to receive Welfare back then, don't know how it is now)

 

[just play]

When folks get angry and frustrated a lot seem to assume that "immigrant" means "filthy foreigner". They're not the same thing and if you think they are then that says a whole lot more about you than it does about them.

I have been thinking about this thread for a few days now. I think the problem lies with America giving our money to help others, when we look around and see PLENTY of poor people here.

I live on a small street with 14 houses, there are 3 families who are out of work at this moment. THREE FAMILIES on such a small street. This is a middle class area. This is why people in this thread get so fed up with illegals coming here. Our own people aren't working, and are losing their savings just to survive.

THIS is the problem, USA is too busy trying to help others, they forget about their own people. That is why most people get in such an uproar over illegals. IMO. I mentioned this before a while ago, we had to pay $800 to the state of Massachusetts for not having health care. Our state is REQUIRED to have health care and if not, tough shit, you pay a fine. AND if you don't pay this money in one lump sum they add on to it every month, around $40, just for not being able to pay the whole thing.

If you (general you) don't live in the United States, there is no way you can understand the frustration.

 

[lost2much]

Again those of you that seem to be illegal alien apologists completely miss the point. If the law states you have to go through a process to be here, then you have to do it that way or keep out! Surely those of you that welcome these folks in without following the rules wouldn't put up with someone deciding to move into your own house without your permission would you?? The legal term for that would be breaking and entering.

 

[lost2much]

Grandmaster, Article 33 of the Mexican constitution authorizes immediate expulsion of any foreigner whose presence the Mexican govt. deems unfit. Further, if an illegal re-enters mexico after being expelled, they are subject to 10 years in prison.

Also, on the topic of my statement about mexicans giving aid to illegals in Mexico, the following is an excerpt from an interview with president Calderon by Wolf Blitzer (CNN, cant get much more liberal than that):

"Under Mexican law illegal immigration is a felony, punishable by up to two years in prison. Visa violators can be sentenced to six year terms. Mexicans who help illegal immigrants are considered criminals.

He further asked Calderon if someone from south of Mexico's border can just walk in and stay. He replied, no no, we send them right back.

Just so you know that there is substance to my post and that I am not just making it up as you implied.

 

[lost2much]

While we're at it Grandmaster, yes many poor CITIZENS do use the emergency room for healthcare. The difference is they are CITIZENS! These same citizens are generally poor and will be faced with bankruptcy over enormous medical bills while the illegal using the same facility will not only be treated at no charge, they won't even be asked to leave the country. Further, when govt. takes over such functions it may not truly be communism, but at the very least it is socialism. You should know that being in a semi=socialist state. So please be careful in implying that others don't know as much as you, it can come back to haunt you.

 

[Mavin1]

From the Arizona Strong site:


Arizona SB1070See original Wikipedia article »
From Wikipedia Last modified on 3 May 2010, at 20:14
From Wikipedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Arizona Senate Bill 1070 is legislation signed into law in the U.S. state of Arizona by governor Jan Brewer on April 23, 2010.[1] It is the broadest and strictest anti–illegal immigration measure in decades[1] and has received national and international attention and spurred controversy. The legislation's name is Support Our Law Enforcement and Safe Neighborhoods Act but is best known as simply Arizona SB1070.[2] The bill is scheduled to go into effect on July 28, 2010, ninety days after the end of the legislative session (sine die).[3][4] Legal challenges over its constitutionality and compliance with civil rights law are expected.[5][6][7][8][9]

The bill makes it a state misdemeanor crime for an alien to be in Arizona without carrying legal documents, steps up state and local law enforcement of Federal immigration laws, and cracks down on those sheltering, hiring and transporting illegal immigrants. The paragraph on intent in the legislation says it embodies an 'attrition through enforcement' doctrine.[10][11]

Critics of the legislation say it encourages racial profiling, while supporters say the law enforces existing federal law.[12] [13] [14] [15] [16][17][18][19] The law was modified by Arizona House Bill 2162 within a week of its signing with the goal of addressing some of these concerns. There have been May Day protests in opposition to the law in many U.S. cities,[20] including calls for a boycott of Arizona.[21] Polling found the law has majority support in Arizona and nationwide.[22][23][24][25]

 

[kauphy]

Yes, but do you get health care and dentistry for free while other Europeans have to pay?

Did you sneak into that country?

Are you allowed luxouries that Europeans are not?


I am assuming the answers are no...that is the difference.


My friend a few miles away from me lived in a neighborhood that was poor. People from another country started moving in (I can't remember which country now, this was 25 years ago) they would get an apartment, car, and money from our government. While her family was sitting there practically starving, and both parents worked and they had only 2 children. The mother went down to the Welfare office to try and get some sort of help, she was denied...she made a few dollars more than she should have. I'm not lying, she made literally $1-2 more. (there is a standard how much you can make a month to be allowed to receive Welfare back then, don't know how it is now)

its the same now. they count every last penny you have and i,m not kidding. my baby is disabled and if we make over a certen amount then he will lose his medical and he will need heart sug in a few years and there is no way we can pay for it. last time i had to be reviwed for his medical they asked me how much money i had on me and i said 5 cents and she counted it. i asked her do you count everything and she said if u have a penny on you we count it.
there r a few people on here that seem to think that we who r mad about all of this think that none of them should be here thats not the case. all of the people who come here have a right to stay if they do it the right way. not just the ones who come across the border but all people from everywhere have the right to be here if they do it right. we r just mad about the ones that come over here that don,t do it the right way and then think that we owe them something. reamber the guys who flew the planes into the towers were here if i,m not wrong on school and work visas and they had expired had the govermnet been keeping a track on them like they should it would not have happened. i,m not a racest nor am i mad at anyone who comes here to make a better live for themselfs and their familys. what i,am mad at r the ones that come here thinking we owe them something and then get pissed off when they don,t get everything they think they having coming and we want to send them home caz they r not here legally.