Tarabas3 VS Lucky Nugget

[Tarabas3]

I played at Lucky nugget recently. Deposited 143, got 143 bonus. I played Roulette, placing 15 euro on 2 numbers. I was lucky. Got my balance to 700. After that I made the rest of 7500 wagering on slots.
I made 3 euro per bet wagering. And finished with 368 euro balance. And this is an email that I received from Lucky Nugget after
that:
"As per your request I provide you with further explanation. We detected irregular game play as per our Terms & Conditions.
Your balance was reset as you placed high bets on Roulette and then played through the bonus in small bets on Hot Ink."
Firstly, there is a rule in the Lucky Nugget terms that one cannot bet 30% more than bonus received.
At no point I violated that rule. So how can they define my bets as "high" if I never made a single bet more than 30% of bonus received?
Second, how do they define "small bets"?
3 euro per spin on slots- small bet? I think that is ridiculous! 3 euro on slots is not a small bet at all. Do they want me to make 20-30 bet per spin on slots?
Now , can Lucky nugget do whatever they want to the winning players? Do they think I am just a stupid girl from Russia?
I am really frustrated, please Casinomeister, help me.
Thank you.

See Related Threads:

• Have You Played Lucky Nugget?
• Kudos To Lucky Nugget Customer Service!
• Lucky Nugget...I'm In!!
• How Long To Certify Dogs At Lucky Nugget
• Thumbs Up To Lucky Nugget

 

[chuchu59]

Around 2 years ago I deposited and got a 100% bonus and lumped the whole lot on Paigow. I then played slots at low stakes to clear the wagering. Its a similar situation as yours the only difference being they paid me in full without any hassles.

 

[gerilege]

Did you have any specific reasons to play Hot Ink for the whole 7500 wagering? Or did you play other slots as well?

 

[vinylweatherman]

Did you have any specific reasons to play Hot Ink for the whole 7500 wagering? Or did you play other slots as well?

This isn't really relevant.

The key point is whether the specific 30% max bet rule was broken. The rest of their argument is "spirit of the bonus", and not acceptable for an accredited casino.

If the OP is certain she didn't break the 30% rule, she should PAB right away.

The bet of €15 on two numbers would be classed as a bet of €30, as it is the stake per spin of the wheel that matters, not the bet per number. If she increased the total bet per spin after getting lucky on this opening bet, then this is where the 30% rule could have been broken.

The rule applies to 30% of the bonus, or 30% of €143, which gives a max bet of €42.90
This would be broken if she added one number to her strategy, making it €15 on three numbers, a total of €45

By going into Playcheck, the Roulette bets can be checked to see if any transaction entry shows a total greater than €42.90, and if not, PAB as the rest is a "spirit of the bonus" argument.

Not all casinos even allow play on Roulette for a bonus, and if the game shows as zero weighting in the terms, this effectively means it is not allowed, but in that case they should have said so in the email rather than waffling on about the max bet rule and small bets on slots.

 

[Tarabas3]

This isn't really relevant.

The key point is whether the specific 30% max bet rule was broken. The rest of their argument is "spirit of the bonus", and not acceptable for an accredited casino.

If the OP is certain she didn't break the 30% rule, she should PAB right away.

The bet of €15 on two numbers would be classed as a bet of €30, as it is the stake per spin of the wheel that matters, not the bet per number. If she increased the total bet per spin after getting lucky on this opening bet, then this is where the 30% rule could have been broken.

The rule applies to 30% of the bonus, or 30% of €143, which gives a max bet of €42.90
This would be broken if she added one number to her strategy, making it €15 on three numbers, a total of €45

By going into Playcheck, the Roulette bets can be checked to see if any transaction entry shows a total greater than €42.90, and if not, PAB as the rest is a "spirit of the bonus" argument.

Not all casinos even allow play on Roulette for a bonus, and if the game shows as zero weighting in the terms, this effectively means it is not allowed, but in that case they should have said so in the email rather than waffling on about the max bet rule and small bets on slots.

I did not wager more than 30 euro total a bet. I knew about that 30% rule and was very cautious.

 

[Nate]

I did not wager more than 30 euro total a bet. I knew about that 30% rule and was very cautious.

If you are confident of your claim then I would refrain from further posts and Pitch A Bitch:

You can read about it here: Link Outdated / Removed

Further Posts on the subject CAN harm your chances so please be careful.

Nate

 

[gerilege]

This isn't really relevant.

The key point is whether the specific 30% max bet rule was broken. The rest of their argument is "spirit of the bonus", and not acceptable for an accredited casino.

If the OP is certain she didn't break the 30% rule, she should PAB right away.

The bet of €15 on two numbers would be classed as a bet of €30, as it is the stake per spin of the wheel that matters, not the bet per number. If she increased the total bet per spin after getting lucky on this opening bet, then this is where the 30% rule could have been broken.

The rule applies to 30% of the bonus, or 30% of €143, which gives a max bet of €42.90
This would be broken if she added one number to her strategy, making it €15 on three numbers, a total of €45

By going into Playcheck, the Roulette bets can be checked to see if any transaction entry shows a total greater than €42.90, and if not, PAB as the rest is a "spirit of the bonus" argument.

Not all casinos even allow play on Roulette for a bonus, and if the game shows as zero weighting in the terms, this effectively means it is not allowed, but in that case they should have said so in the email rather than waffling on about the max bet rule and small bets on slots.

It might be relevant in connection to 5.8.1 of the respective T&Cs. I think some of the phrases in that paragraph are more concrete than the general spirit of the bonus terms we frequently see.
I would not like to go more into the details here, but my personal opinion is that the reason for the rejected payout here might be related to the play on this particular slot, and not related to the bet sizes used for completing wagering.
I am not the person who should tell whether this decision was right or wrong, but from my perspective it might turn out to be a non-straightforward case at the end.

 

[maphesto]

If you are confident of your claim then I would refrain from further posts and Pitch A Bitch:

You can read about it here: Link Outdated / Removed

Further Posts on the subject CAN harm your chances so please be careful.

Nate

Or, he can first contact their rep cobus here!

@OP: Lucky Nugget are accredited here at CM and I suggest you contact their rep first.

 

[Nate]

Or, he can first contact their rep cobus here!

@OP: Lucky Nugget are accredited here at CM and I suggest you contact their rep first.

You are spot on - I forgot about that

Tx Maphesto!

Nate

 

[hakapuku]

"5.8.1 Before any withdrawals are processed, your play will be reviewed for any irregular playing patterns. In the interests of fair gaming, equal, zero or low margin bets or hedge betting, shall all be considered irregular gaming for bonus play-through requirement purposes. Other examples of irregular game play include but are not limited to, placing single bets equal to or in excess of 30% or more of the value of the bonus credited to their account, placing even money bets on Roulette, Sic Bo or Craps, placing single bets equal to or in excess of 20% or more of the value of the bonus credited to their account until such time as the wagering requirements for that bonus have been met. For the purposes of this rule, a bet is defined as one roulette spin or one dealer's dealt hand in any table game, or one deal in any Video or Power Poker game (this includes Multi-Hand/Play games). Any double or gamble shall be considered a new bet. Should the Casino deem that irregular game play has occurred; the Casino reserves the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings. "

Can somebody explain this to me? What 30% bet limits refer to and what 20% bet limits refer to?

 

[hakapuku]

It might be relevant in connection to 5.8.1 of the respective T&Cs. I think some of the phrases in that paragraph are more concrete than the general spirit of the bonus terms we frequently see.
I would not like to go more into the details here, but my personal opinion is that the reason for the rejected payout here might be related to the play on this particular slot, and not related to the bet sizes used for completing wagering.
I am not the person who should tell whether this decision was right or wrong, but from my perspective it might turn out to be a non-straightforward case at the end.

There is nothing there about "specific slot play".

 

[gerilege]

There is nothing there about "specific slot play".

I DO appreciate input from any forum members, and I understand that there are natural reflections to what I posted. Still, let me refrain from commenting any more on this issue for now and see how the thread and a potential PAB would develop.

 

[Tarabas3]

I have sent a personal message to Cobus (Lucky nugget representative).

 

[vinylweatherman]

"5.8.1 Before any withdrawals are processed, your play will be reviewed for any irregular playing patterns. In the interests of fair gaming, equal, zero or low margin bets or hedge betting, shall all be considered irregular gaming for bonus play-through requirement purposes. Other examples of irregular game play include but are not limited to, placing single bets equal to or in excess of 30% or more of the value of the bonus credited to their account, placing even money bets on Roulette, Sic Bo or Craps, placing single bets equal to or in excess of 20% or more of the value of the bonus credited to their account until such time as the wagering requirements for that bonus have been met. For the purposes of this rule, a bet is defined as one roulette spin or one dealer's dealt hand in any table game, or one deal in any Video or Power Poker game (this includes Multi-Hand/Play games). Any double or gamble shall be considered a new bet. Should the Casino deem that irregular game play has occurred; the Casino reserves the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings. "

Can somebody explain this to me? What 30% bet limits refer to and what 20% bet limits refer to?

I suspect what has happened here is that they are now enforcing a 20% max bet rule, which the OP DID break, but have not properly updated the terms to reflect this, leaving the position unclear for players.

This is definitely a PAB issue, as accreditation means that when a mistake is made like this by the casino, they would have to err in favour of the more generous interpretation until they correct the typo. For others, it reveals that they are now moving to a 20% max bet rule, as it was always 30% in the past.

There is nothing about "this slot" as opposed to "that slot" in any terms and conditions, and unless they have specifically excluded this slot elsewhere, play on it is no more "irregular" than play on any other, as it's a slot, and the outcomes are all random, so no "strategy" involved.

I have seen other MGS casinos exclude specific slots from making WR, but this has been progressives, and more oddly, the single non progressive "Scrooge". Unless Hot Ink is a Scrooge clone, I don't see the problem.

I have seen casinos argue that switching to slots after starting on games with a lower weighting is "abuse", but they are not accredited, and they at least have this spelled out in the terms, some with a pretty clear "must not reduce bets by more than xx% after a winning streak".

My big issue with Lucky Nugget is their change to 10 day pending for all large withdrawals, and their "large" is not the same as my "large", and seems to cover anything from the low hundreds upwards. I bet that even if they agreed to pay the OP, it would be pending for 10 days first.

 

[hakapuku]

I suspect what has happened here is that they are now enforcing a 20% max bet rule, which the OP DID break, but have not properly updated the terms to reflect this, leaving the position unclear for players.

This is definitely a PAB issue, as accreditation means that when a mistake is made like this by the casino, they would have to err in favour of the more generous interpretation until they correct the typo. For others, it reveals that they are now moving to a 20% max bet rule, as it was always 30% in the past.

There is nothing about "this slot" as opposed to "that slot" in any terms and conditions, and unless they have specifically excluded this slot elsewhere, play on it is no more "irregular" than play on any other, as it's a slot, and the outcomes are all random, so no "strategy" involved.

I have seen other MGS casinos exclude specific slots from making WR, but this has been progressives, and more oddly, the single non progressive "Scrooge". Unless Hot Ink is a Scrooge clone, I don't see the problem.

I have seen casinos argue that switching to slots after starting on games with a lower weighting is "abuse", but they are not accredited, and they at least have this spelled out in the terms, some with a pretty clear "must not reduce bets by more than xx% after a winning streak".

My big issue with Lucky Nugget is their change to 10 day pending for all large withdrawals, and their "large" is not the same as my "large", and seems to cover anything from the low hundreds upwards. I bet that even if they agreed to pay the OP, it would be pending for 10 days first.

The way I understand this rule is that 20% bet limit only refers to EVEN money bets on roulette, sicbo and craps. The OP ,as I see it, did not make even money bets (eg. bets on Red/Black, Odd/Even etc). So this rule cannot be applied to her case.

 

[me_and_ed]

I have sent a personal message to Cobus (Lucky nugget representative).

Let me know if he actually responds, I have been waiting for 3 months from a PM I sent.

 

[Nifty29]

The way I understand this rule is that 20% bet limit only refers to EVEN money bets on roulette, sicbo and craps. The OP ,as I see it, did not make even money bets (eg. bets on Red/Black, Odd/Even etc). So this rule cannot be applied to her case.

The wording is confusing. Even money bets are considered irregular play regardless of bet amount AFAICT.

There seems to be two sets of rules for max bet. The logical and fair thing to do would be to apply the HIGHER of the two percentages.

Unless there are other facts to which we are not privy, it LOOKS like a case of "pay the player".

me_and_ed - 3 months non-response is unacceptable. Please let Bryan or Max know so they can find out what is going on.

 

[dunover]

Let me know if he actually responds, I have been waiting for 3 months from a PM I sent.

Funnily enough I closed my Lucky Nugget account last weekend for that very reason. I contacted Cobus and still 10 days later have had no reply. Prior to this I got paid on the few occasions I made a w/d from there.

If you all remember, I started a thread last week for this very reason - concerning our responsibility to notify Max/Brian if we notice the advertised criteria for a particular casino's accreditation is not being maintained, or reduced. I would include in this both Vinyl's observation concerning the surreptitious 10-day pending for a vague definition of 'large withdrawals' AND the seemingly sleeping rep and bad/non-response time.

I maintain that it's all very well members here chastising people for not using the accredited list before playing and ensuing problems, but what about when players join on the basis of changed/inaccurate information in the accreditied list??

 

[Nifty29]

Funnily enough I closed my Lucky Nugget account last weekend for that very reason. I contacted Cobus and still 10 days later have had no reply. Prior to this I got paid on the few occasions I made a w/d from there.

If you all remember, I started a thread last week for this very reason - concerning our responsibility to notify Max/Brian if we notice the advertised criteria for a particular casino's accreditation is not being maintained, or reduced. I would include in this both Vinyl's observation concerning the surreptitious 10-day pending for a vague definition of 'large withdrawals' AND the seemingly sleeping rep and bad/non-response time.

I maintain that it's all very well members here chastising people for not using the accredited list before playing and ensuing problems, but what about when players join on the basis of changed/inaccurate information in the accreditied list??:mad:

So you chastise Bryan for not updating his accredited list using information that he is NOT provided with by members?

That makes sense.

We as members are part of the ongoing accredited process, in that the real time feedback we provide to Max and Bryan, when taken with other information, is vital in preventing the very problem you're talking about.

I didn't see the other thread, but did you report the lack of response to Bryan? If me_and_ed had done so (I assume he didn't) and you have done so, then Bryan WILL take action to find out WTH is going on, AND will remove them from the list if the answers he receives are not satisfactory. I've seen it done on many occasions to even long-time accredited groups.

The accredited standards are actually very tightly maintained and policed in comparison to other self-proclaimed "Watchdog" site, which should indicate just how little money and profit means to CM and how important integrity and professionalism is in his ethos.

If players join on the basis of "inaccurate information" etc, then we must bear some responsibility for that. It's unreasonable and likely impossible for Bryan or anyone else to be personally up with every single issue that members experience without members actually reporting things when they happen. A lack of reply or some small detail might seem trivial and hardly worth it to a member, but if a dozen are having the same issue and also ignoring it, chances are it really is a BIG issue that could be the start of something even bigger, whereas if even a couple of those members passed the information along, it might just stop the issues in their tracks.

I'll say one thing.....I do check out affy sites regularly, and from the examples of other "accredited/approved lists" I've seen, the one at CM is MILES ahead in regards to integrity. Some of the "approved" casinos I've seen at well-peddled sites here in the forum would make you . Another aspect that is good about the CM list is that it is limited to a selection of casinos who have been through a formal process and proven themselves, and that the rest of the site is not full of "other casinos" just to catch the extra affiliate dollars when the accredited casinos are exhausted for a player. I've heard the "yeah that casino isn't great...thats why we don't give it much webspace and it isn't an approved one etc etc"....what a load of crap. Players TRUST affiliates to lead them to reputable casinos, so having any association with casinos that have a proven record of being the opposite is disgusting IMO. If you have a casino listed on your site, then you ARE recommending it, and if it is a known craphole (even if the affy personally hasn't had many issues), then you deserve to be called out. It's disappointing that affys here who do this are allowed to have their links in their siggys, but then I don't think anyone but the mods should have them anyway, but that's a different rant for a different day.....

 

[dunover]

So you chastise Bryan for not updating his accredited list using information that he is NOT provided with by members?

That makes sense.
We as members are part of the ongoing accredited process, in that the real time feedback we provide to Max and Bryan, when taken with other information, is vital in preventing the very problem you're talking about.

I didn't see the other thread, but did you report the lack of response to Bryan? If me_and_ed had done so (I assume he didn't) and you have done so, then Bryan WILL take action to find out WTH is going on, AND will remove them from the list if the answers he receives are not satisfactory. I've seen it done on many occasions to even long-time accredited groups.

The accredited standards are actually very tightly maintained and policed in comparison to other self-proclaimed "Watchdog" site, which should indicate just how little money and profit means to CM and how important integrity and professionalism is in his ethos.

If players join on the basis of "inaccurate information" etc, then we must bear some responsibility for that. It's unreasonable and likely impossible for Bryan or anyone else to be personally up with every single issue that members experience without members actually reporting things when they happen. A lack of reply or some small detail might seem trivial and hardly worth it to a member, but if a dozen are having the same issue and also ignoring it, chances are it really is a BIG issue that could be the start of something even bigger, whereas if even a couple of those members passed the information along, it might just stop the issues in their tracks.

I'll say one thing.....I do check out affy sites regularly, and from the examples of other "accredited/approved lists" I've seen, the one at CM is MILES ahead in regards to integrity. Some of the "approved" casinos I've seen at well-peddled sites here in the forum would make you . Another aspect that is good about the CM list is that it is limited to a selection of casinos who have been through a formal process and proven themselves, and that the rest of the site is not full of "other casinos" just to catch the extra affiliate dollars when the accredited casinos are exhausted for a player. I've heard the "yeah that casino isn't great...thats why we don't give it much webspace and it isn't an approved one etc etc"....what a load of crap. Players TRUST affiliates to lead them to reputable casinos, so having any association with casinos that have a proven record of being the opposite is disgusting IMO. If you have a casino listed on your site, then you ARE recommending it, and if it is a known craphole (even if the affy personally hasn't had many issues), then you deserve to be called out. It's disappointing that affys here who do this are allowed to have their links in their siggys, but then I don't think anyone but the mods should have them anyway, but that's a different rant for a different day.....

I think you should take that statement back; you have admitted you didn't read my thread/ideas about this matter and had you done so you would see my sentiments are the polar opposite to which you allege here. In fact you could have saved yourself a bit of typing because much of what else you wrote mirrors what I stated too.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/accredited-casino-profiles-we-can-help.56093/

 

[Nifty29]

I think you should take that statement back; you have admitted you didn't read my thread/ideas about this matter and had you done so you would see my sentiments are the polar opposite to which you allege here. In fact you could have saved yourself a bit of typing because much of what else you wrote mirrors what I stated too.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/accredited-casino-profiles-we-can-help.56093/

Well, maybe next time link the thread if you're going to refer to it.

Your comments here seemed to express a different view, but I see now how it could be read another way.

I do retract the statements referring to you personally and apologize for getting the wrong end of the stick.

Looks like we are in agreement on this subject

 

[dunover]

Well, maybe next time link the thread if you're going to refer to it.
Your comments here seemed to express a different view, but I see now how it could be read another way.

I do retract the statements referring to you personally and apologize for getting the wrong end of the stick.

Looks like we are in agreement on this subject

Yeah, that's fair enough.

Apology accepted.

There does seem to be a consensus about the rep issue on the Digimedia MG casinos, so I'll take the lead and PM Bryan or Max.

 

[Mouche12]

10 days pending for large withdrawals (starting from $750, 1000 or...?)

Not my casino of choice for sure!

 

[vinylweatherman]

10 days pending for large withdrawals (starting from $750, 1000 or...?)

Not my casino of choice for sure!

I did query this with CS, and they replied that the policy had just come in (blatant lie), and that by large, they meant £5000+, after which they subjected my £4000 withdrawal to 10 days pending (another lie). I also had a £700 withdrawal set to 10 days pending almost a YEAR before CS told me the policy had been brought in (lie 3), and a German player was subjected to a 10 day pending a year before that.

It prompted Simmo to ask them for clarification, and they told him no such policy existed, or had ever existed, even though the German player had posted the email HE received where he was told it was a new GLOBAL policy that had just been brought in for everyone.

It's the sheer scale of deceit, not just the 10 day policy, that is the problem.

I forwarded the email detailing the policy as it was communicated to me to Max, who said he would discuss it with Bryan at a later time, but asked me to copy Bryan into what I sent him about it. This was last year, and STILL the claim on their listing is the old 48-72 hour timeframe, with nothing about any policy for large withdrawals. I put this down to them giving people like Simmo and Max BS about there never having been such a policy, so as to hide it from people who might, with some authority, reveal it in public.

CS didn't know I knew anything about the German player's story, so it obviously didn't occur to them to ensure the stories matched. I bet they didn't know WHY Simmo asked, so he just got given the standard 48-72 hour info.

It now seems the rep has gone AWOL, and the operator has not informed Max nor Bryan. Cobus was an affiliate side rep in any case, we lost the player rep "Bellerock" some time before, and he was never replaced. Cobus simply added the role of forwarder of player issues to his role as rep for the affiliate side.

They have also quietly become Digimedia, and for a long while were listed as the outdated BelleRock group. This may indicate that there was a complete change of ownership and management that Bryan was not aware of, and this may have included a change of policy to something darker, such as the sneaky 10 day pending, and the "spirit of the bonus" type confiscation highlighted by this case.

After my "larger than £5000" £4000 was subject to 10 days pending because of a policy that didn't even exist, I decided it was time to uninstall all their casinos and go elsewhere. After all, my most recent set of visits were very profitable, and oddly enough, the £66,000 highlight was NOT subjected to 10 days pending as had some earlier withdrawals been. Maybe the very public airing in "winner screenshots" made them think it unwise to have me post "still waiting" whilst the topic was still hot

 

[Mouche12]

Thanks for your elaborate answer VWM.

Should this info not be included in the accredited section? Or do you think Lucky Nugget should be downgraded to 'good to go'?

 

[vinylweatherman]

Thanks for your elaborate answer VWM.

Should this info not be included in the accredited section? Or do you think Lucky Nugget should be downgraded to 'good to go'?

The info should be included.

When Mainstreet brought in their 2 week period between withdrawing and getting paid, it was a major factor in them dropping from accredited to "good to go", so why should Digimedia not also be treated in the same manner?

They do pay, every time, and on day 11.

The sticking point is the lying, where they tell different people different things about this policy. The German player gets told it has just been brought in globally, I get told it only got brought in a year later, and AFTER my £66K win in order to explain why a 66K win was paid as per usual after 48 hours, but a £4000 one took 11 days. Simmo gets told no such policy exists, or has ever existed.

Now, they have dropped another rung, seemingly pulling "spirit of the bonus" on the OP, and this in turn revealing they have a non responsive rep.

 

[Seaman63]

and a German player was subjected to a 10 day pending a year before that.

That was me and they did it several times too me and not only at Lucky Nugget but also at River Belle. The explanation was: they identified me as a "Hit & Run" player. And we are talking about a low roller with withdrawals ranging from 50-400 €

 

[maxd]

FTR I have received no PAB from the OP.

@Tarabas3: don't delay, submit your Pitch-A-Bitch (PAB) today! Start here: Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ

 

[vinylweatherman]

That was me and they did it several times too me and not only at Lucky Nugget but also at River Belle. The explanation was: they identified me as a "Hit & Run" player. And we are talking about a low roller with withdrawals ranging from 50-400 €

That's odd, a completely different reason to the one they gave me.

My play was anything but "hit & run". I would only withdraw when I had something worth withdrawing. I would often play back a lesser amount even though I had made a bit, and had no WR left. Many of my deposits were without bonuses, and yet the withdrawals from them still had this 10 day rule applied. I have been with the group for YEARS, hardly a "hit & run" player. This is probably why they pulled a different story from their ass when I asked, one that fitted the withdrawal currently sat in pending. Carelessly, they didn't check that the BS was at least consistent with PAST withdrawals that were also subjected to this 10 day period, and they got caught with their pants down when the explanation didn't even fit the very next withdrawal from one of their sister casinos, that of 4K. This is because I got more than a vague "large withdrawal", they defined the figure as £5000+

Now, if this is an official policy, be it "hit & run" or "large withdrawals", why did they LIE to Simmo when he asked as a member of the "partner" community, an affiliate and forum moderator here, and with his own set of sites.

I also noticed that after the 10 day pending, the date of withdrawal shown in Cashcheck was amended to make it look like it had been paid straight away, thus there is no evidence left behind of the length of time spent in pending. This may be just a quirk of Cashcheck, but it is a pretty convenient one.

Playcheck though, DOES still show the evidence, but unlike Cashcheck, is only available for about 21 days to the player before the data is archived.

This case though is a shift to the red, this is a player not getting paid at all, at least "hit & run" players breaking "the spirit of the bonus" still got paid before this, albeit after a protracted 10 day wait.

 

[Tarabas3]

I received a reply from Cobus-

"Hi,

I believe that this has already been addressed. Conny also sent you an email on the 28th of March
to which you haven't replied yet. If you didn't receive the email, please let me know."

Below is an email from Conny that Conus refers to:

"When irregular game play was detected on your account, we took the initiative not to lock your account and rather reset your balance to your initial deposit (€ 143.-) and the bonus of 143 that you have received as a welcome gift.
As we want to believe, that the irregular game play was initiated out of unknowingness and not on purpose, resetting your balance seemed the fairer option to give you a second chance to play according to the Terms and Conditions of Lucky Nugget Online Casino.
Please also be advised that you have accepted the Terms & Conditions when you registered your Casino account with us and that it would be your responsibility to read through them and to act according to them.

Maria, our intention is not to keep you unsatisfied and we are happy to offer you another solution.
If you prefer we can forfeit your welcome bonus and refund your deposit of € 143 back to your Neteller account."


No need to explain why I totally ignored that email.

I will Pitch a Bitch right now.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I received a reply from Cobus-

"Hi,

I believe that this has already been addressed. Conny also sent you an email on the 28th of March
to which you haven't replied yet. If you didn't receive the email, please let me know."

Below is an email from Conny that Conus refers to:

"When irregular game play was detected on your account, we took the initiative not to lock your account and rather reset your balance to your initial deposit (€ 143.-) and the bonus of 143 that you have received as a welcome gift.
As we want to believe, that the irregular game play was initiated out of unknowingness and not on purpose, resetting your balance seemed the fairer option to give you a second chance to play according to the Terms and Conditions of Lucky Nugget Online Casino.
Please also be advised that you have accepted the Terms & Conditions when you registered your Casino account with us and that it would be your responsibility to read through them and to act according to them.

Maria, our intention is not to keep you unsatisfied and we are happy to offer you another solution.
If you prefer we can forfeit your welcome bonus and refund your deposit of € 143 back to your Neteller account."


No need to explain why I totally ignored that email.

I will Pitch a Bitch right now.

They seem to be quoting the terms, yet it appears none were broken.

Please DO PAB right now. Max will expect more detail on exactly which terms were broken and how. Vague "irregular play" rules just won't cut it.

If your account is true, you bet on 2 numbers at Roulette, and then continued wagering on slots, and at 3.00, not any of this 1c per line grinding. It's a strategy, but nowhere near "irregular play" as indicated in the examples.

 

[dunover]

They seem to be quoting the terms, yet it appears none were broken.

Please DO PAB right now. Max will expect more detail on exactly which terms were broken and how. Vague "irregular play" rules just won't cut it.

If your account is true, you bet on 2 numbers at Roulette, and then continued wagering on slots, and at 3.00, not any of this 1c per line grinding. It's a strategy, but nowhere near "irregular play" as indicated in the examples.

Look, it's pretty clear from VWM and Simmo's communications that an underhand policy is in operation, possibly due to falling revenues or other difficulties. This unwritten policy means subjectively applying a summary 10-day pending to any withdrawals they find 'uncomfortable' and would prefer the player gambled back to them. While I wouldn't say they are running headlong down Purple Lounge Hill, I wouldn't personally risk any deposits there, just for the one simple reason that a good hit would be delayed unnecessarily for w/d.
It seems that the 'rep' has just today woken from his winter hibernation, and Digimedia is not 'solid' as Bellerock was described once in the accredited list.

I sense 'reservation' ahead for them unless things improve.

 

[me_and_ed]

The whole industry has gone to shit, rules left "open for interpretation" from most of the casino's these days, who can you trust, even the accredited ones. I believe Cobus won an award this year yet doesn't answer PM's in a timely manner if he answers at all, the day after I left the PM for him he logged in.

Time to go.

 

[maxd]

@ Tarabas3 : your Pitch-A-Bitch (PAB) has been received and I will contact you shortly via email. Please remember that we do expect you to have read the Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ (see

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

) because it does describe your responsibilities and what you can expect from the PAB process. Pay special attention to the restrictions regarding forum posts while your PAB is active (see here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

).

Regards,
Max, Casinomeister's Complaints Manager

 

[chuchu59]

The whole industry has gone to shit, rules left "open for interpretation" from most of the casino's these days, who can you trust, even the accredited ones. I believe Cobus won an award this year yet doesn't answer PM's in a timely manner if he answers at all, the day after I left the PM for him he logged in.

Time to go.

In other words, these casinos have fallen on hard times and since everyone is doing it those borderline accredited casinos will try to 'interpret' terms so that they don't have to pay whilst seemingly not to look roguish.

 

[MisterBJ]

In other words, these casinos have fallen on hard times and since everyone is doing it those borderline accredited casinos will try to 'interpret' terms so that they don't have to pay whilst seemingly not to look roguish.

A lot of these casinos are feeling the effects of the economy, and years of not having USA as a player base. Us Americans are the most spending nation on earth.

 

[Tarabas3]

My nightmare goes on!

As you remember Lucky Nugget refused to pay me 368 euro winnings. I made complaint at this forum,
I made pitch a pitch complaint. Maxd promised to help- but he did not. Nobody contacted me in a course of the
month. The casino removed my winnings but left my 143 euro deposit plus 143 euro bonus on my balance (as if I never played).
So ,since I already did not hope for help, I decided to give it a second try.
And I was lucky again. Again I made 15 euro bets on roulette (never surpassing 30% per pet limit).
Then I made a wagering on slots. Since they call 3 euro bets on slots- small bets, this time I made
wagering 6 euro a spin on slots. I managed to withdraw 786 euro.
Now guess what. They paid me only my deposit back! This time without any explanation.
So they confiscated 868 euro total from my winnings! They just don't let me to win! How can that be?
I did not violate any of their written rules. So the main question is-
I choose this casino because it is Accredited at this website. This casino confiscates my winnings twice without any legible reason. And nothing happens after my complaints!
The casino represenative silent, Maxd silent. How can that be? And if this casino totally ignores Maxd and Casinomeister- then
why the hell are they still on the accredited list???

 

[mimi26]

As you remember Lucky Nugget refused to pay me 368 euro winnings. I made complaint at this forum,
I made pitch a pitch complaint. Maxd promised to help- but he did not. Nobody contacted me in a course of the
month. The casino removed my winnings but left my 143 euro deposit plus 143 euro bonus on my balance (as if I never played).
So ,since I already did not hope for help, I decided to give it a second try.
And I was lucky again. Again I made 15 euro bets on roulette (never surpassing 30% per pet limit).
Then I made a wagering on slots. Since they call 3 euro bets on slots- small bets, this time I made
wagering 6 euro a spin on slots. I managed to withdraw 786 euro.
Now guess what. They paid me only my deposit back! This time without any explanation.
So they confiscated 868 euro total from my winnings! They just don't let me to win! How can that be?
I did not violate any of their written rules. So the main question is-
I choose this casino because it is Accredited at this website. This casino confiscates my winnings twice without any legible reason. And nothing happens after my complaints!
The casino represenative silent, Maxd silent. How can that be? And if this casino totally ignores Maxd and Casinomeister- then
why the hell are they still on the accredited list???

I have no sympathy for you whatsoever.........fool me once etc, etc, etc

 

[chuchu59]

As you remember Lucky Nugget refused to pay me 368 euro winnings. I made complaint at this forum,
I made pitch a pitch complaint. Maxd promised to help- but he did not. Nobody contacted me in a course of the
month. The casino removed my winnings but left my 143 euro deposit plus 143 euro bonus on my balance (as if I never played).
So ,since I already did not hope for help, I decided to give it a second try.
And I was lucky again. Again I made 15 euro bets on roulette (never surpassing 30% per pet limit).
Then I made a wagering on slots. Since they call 3 euro bets on slots- small bets, this time I made
wagering 6 euro a spin on slots. I managed to withdraw 786 euro.
Now guess what. They paid me only my deposit back! This time without any explanation.
So they confiscated 868 euro total from my winnings! They just don't let me to win! How can that be?
I did not violate any of their written rules. So the main question is-
I choose this casino because it is Accredited at this website. This casino confiscates my winnings twice without any legible reason. And nothing happens after my complaints!
The casino represenative silent, Maxd silent. How can that be? And if this casino totally ignores Maxd and Casinomeister- then
why the hell are they still on the accredited list???

When Max promised to help he meant that he would handle the issue in a fair and impartial manner. He will look at the facts and the response from the casino but he is not obligated to force the casino to pay you nor should he do so. I actually believe this post of yours is very disrespectful to Max who has helped a lot of genuine players in the past.

 

[Tarabas3]

When Max promised to help he meant that he would handle the issue in a fair and impartial manner. He will look at the facts and the response from the casino but he is not obligated to force the casino to pay you nor should he do so. I actually believe this post of yours is very disrespectful to Max who has helped a lot of genuine players in the past.

Disrespectful? Listen, the reason I deposited to Lucky Nugget is because at this website it is advertised as a good site, an accredited site. Now after I made a complaint- I was not helped , and I was not even informed about what happens. Nothing! And when I ask about some responsibility you say I am disrespectful. What is disrespectful about asking questions?

 

[hakapuku]

When Max promised to help he meant that he would handle the issue in a fair and impartial manner. He will look at the facts and the response from the casino but he is not obligated to force the casino to pay you nor should he do so. I actually believe this post of yours is very disrespectful to Max who has helped a lot of genuine players in the past.

Nobody asks Maxd to force casino to pay. But what about accredited list? Is not it a list of casinos resommended by Casinomeister? And if he recommends something , then
why it is not allowed to ask him (and Maxd) questions if some of those casinos don't act in a fair way?

 

[vinylweatherman]

Well, despite the attitude, the player did not make the same mistake as before by playing "small bets", and bet double the amount from before. Now, at 32Red, 6 is considered a LARGE bet, and the max bet rule there for the welcome bonus is 6.25 The "spread" here is from 15 to 6, not really that large, and 6 is the max allowed bet at quite a number of the newer slots. If they are going to void wins because Roulette is played, then the game should be prohibited, not merely weighted.

It seems to be a case of the player having no way of knowing what play is going to be considered acceptable until after the fact. Given that they were told the first confiscation was down to "small bets on slots", they should have stuck to this and paid when the player made more "normal" sized bets. It appears as though the REAL issue was not the bet size at all, but the games played (Roulette). They should have been honest, telling the player to play again, but NOT Roulette

What this shows is that Lucky Nugget acted in bad faith. They had no intention of paying this player at all, and the "do over" was a sham.

Max has no power to force a casino to abide by his decision in any arbitration, but the consequence of refusing to implement the decision is likely removal from the accredited section, but by Bryan, not Max.

If the poster feels Max has "ignored" the problem, they should appeal to Bryan by PM for a review of the situation, along with a review of the status of Lucky Nugget.

This incident on it's own is an application of the principle of "spirit of the bonus" to void winnings, and is not acceptable for an accredited casino. The wider picture though is even worse, and it is becoming clear that there has been a significant change for the worse at this group, and all the issues as a whole should be brought together for a review of it's current accredited status.

Currently, it IS accredited, so a second PAB over this second "spirit of the bonus" ruling would be in order.

 

[albrco123]

​

I have been following this thread with interest and just took a look at Lucky Nuggets T&C's one rule 5.8.2 stood out more than others as it really seems to say we have a "spirit of the bonus" clause and can implement it any way we choose, not something I expect to see in the T&C's of an accredited Casino. JMHO

Alan

5.8.2 The Casino reserves the right to decide in its sole discretion which activities constitute "irregular play" for Bonus Play through Requirement purposes from time-to-time and to withhold any withdrawals where irregular play has occurred to meet Bonus Play through Requirements.

 

[vinylweatherman]

​

I have been following this thread with interest and just took a look at Lucky Nuggets T&C's one rule 5.8.2 stood out more than others as it really seems to say we have a "spirit of the bonus" clause and can implement it any way we choose, not something I expect to see in the T&C's of an accredited Casino. JMHO

Alan

5.8.2 The Casino reserves the right to decide in its sole discretion which activities constitute "irregular play" for Bonus Play through Requirement purposes from time-to-time and to withhold any withdrawals where irregular play has occurred to meet Bonus Play through Requirements.

Very much a "spirit of the bonus" term, especially as no examples are given that might guide a player.

Such a term should never be necessary as the defined terms and conditions should be written well enough to make clear what is, and what is not, acceptable play for a bonus. This is why max bet clauses arose, and in some cases, min bet clauses.

Outside of this, only fraud such as multi accounting should lead to confiscation of winnings. I mean "proven" fraud, not just mere suspicion.

 

[akrus88]

As you remember Lucky Nugget refused to pay me 368 euro winnings. I made complaint at this forum,
I made pitch a pitch complaint. Maxd promised to help- but he did not. Nobody contacted me in a course of the
month. The casino removed my winnings but left my 143 euro deposit plus 143 euro bonus on my balance (as if I never played).
So ,since I already did not hope for help, I decided to give it a second try.
And I was lucky again. Again I made 15 euro bets on roulette (never surpassing 30% per pet limit).
Then I made a wagering on slots. Since they call 3 euro bets on slots- small bets, this time I made
wagering 6 euro a spin on slots. I managed to withdraw 786 euro.
Now guess what. They paid me only my deposit back! This time without any explanation.
So they confiscated 868 euro total from my winnings! They just don't let me to win! How can that be?
I did not violate any of their written rules. So the main question is-
I choose this casino because it is Accredited at this website. This casino confiscates my winnings twice without any legible reason. And nothing happens after my complaints!
The casino represenative silent, Maxd silent. How can that be? And if this casino totally ignores Maxd and Casinomeister- then
why the hell are they still on the accredited list???

This sounds just absurb and unreasonable from the casinos part. Allso odd if you have not received ANY answer or update from Maxd about the process of the PAB.
Did you still played the HotInk slot on the rerun?
Only reason I can imagine for the avoiding of winnings is that particular slot. As there is the "respins"-feature. It is possible to wager large bets on that slot with quite a low risk. Or at least I think so?

Still, if it is not allowed to use the respin feature on that slot to complete the WR. This should have been clearly stated to OP. Allso this should be clearly stated on the promotional T&C. Not just named as "irregular play".
I agree it is not normal playing style to respin for 500 times in a row. But still, it should be clearly stated this is not allowed, as player should be aware that kind of strategy is not allowed.
This all is hypothetical as I have no idea if OP have used that respin feature more then it is normally being used.

But that is the only reason I can come up with. If the OP have used that respin in a row more then 10 times in a row. She should have mentioned that in the opening post.

 

[akrus88]

I just tried HotInk with playmoney. 160 spins. 2 spins 2,5€ bet. Around 70 7,5€ re-spins. Around 70 15€ re-spins. 12 30€ re-spins.

Starting balance: 1000€. Balance: 820€. Minimun balance: 750€. max balance: 1000€.

That slot can clearly be used to grind out the WR. I know, just a small test. But try it yourself and youll see how it works.
edit: 35 re-spins with a 100€ bet. Minimum balance 400€, max balance 1100€.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I just tried HotInk with playmoney. 160 spins. 2 spins 2,5€ bet. Around 70 7,5€ re-spins. Around 70 15€ re-spins. 12 30€ re-spins.

Starting balance: 1000€. Balance: 820€. Minimun balance: 750€. max balance: 1000€.

That slot can clearly be used to grind out the WR. I know, just a small test. But try it yourself and youll see how it works.
edit: 35 re-spins with a 100€ bet. Minimum balance 400€, max balance 1100€.

Surely the respins count as separate bets, so using a high respin value would violate the terms and conditions regarding max bet.

 

[akrus88]

Surely the respins count as separate bets, so using a high respin value would violate the terms and conditions regarding max bet.

That is true. But Im not saying OP has violated the max bet rule.
Player could do 6€ respins endlesly to grind out the wr. Those respins are way less risky, then a regular spins and can be considered as low-margin betting. IF the player has done that, it would be seriously odd that casino has not stated this

 

[albrco123]

But from reading the Casino's bonus T&C's I don't see any way of a player knowing in advance that playing this particular slot with the respin feature would be considered "Irregular Play" & void any winnings, surely the Casino has a duty to point this out if indeed this is the case.


Al

 

[hakapuku]

That is true. But Im not saying OP has violated the max bet rule.
Player could do 6€ respins endlesly to grind out the wr. Those respins are way less risky, then a regular spins and can be considered as low-margin betting. IF the player has done that, it would be seriously odd that casino has not stated this

Way less risky? Do you have numbers? If not- then all you say is absolutely useless. Saying that if player respins ENDLESLY he will grind out the wr is an absolute b+++++t. There is a house edge included in EVERY casino game. And respin feature has it too. As far as I know it is around 3% (almost the same as table roulette's house edge). So one will lose 30 dollars on every 1000 bets. Not so endless isn't it?
The above post of albrco123 is absolutely right- it cannot be left totally up to casino to decide what to do with winning players based on all kind of vague terms like spirit of the bonus , low margin betting etc.