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Tarabas3 VS Lucky Nugget

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by Tarabas3, Apr 4, 2013.

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    Apr 4, 2013
  1. Tarabas3

    Tarabas3 Banned User, PAB fraud PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Moscow
    I played at Lucky nugget recently. Deposited 143, got 143 bonus. I played Roulette, placing 15 euro on 2 numbers. I was lucky. Got my balance to 700. After that I made the rest of 7500 wagering on slots.
    I made 3 euro per bet wagering. And finished with 368 euro balance. And this is an email that I received from Lucky Nugget after
    that:
    "As per your request I provide you with further explanation. We detected irregular game play as per our Terms & Conditions.
    Your balance was reset as you placed high bets on Roulette and then played through the bonus in small bets on Hot Ink."
    Firstly, there is a rule in the Lucky Nugget terms that one cannot bet 30% more than bonus received.
    At no point I violated that rule. So how can they define my bets as "high" if I never made a single bet more than 30% of bonus received?
    Second, how do they define "small bets"?
    3 euro per spin on slots- small bet? I think that is ridiculous! 3 euro on slots is not a small bet at all. Do they want me to make 20-30 bet per spin on slots?
    Now , can Lucky nugget do whatever they want to the winning players? Do they think I am just a stupid girl from Russia?
    I am really frustrated, please Casinomeister, help me.
    Thank you.
     
  2. Apr 4, 2013
  3. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    Around 2 years ago I deposited and got a 100% bonus and lumped the whole lot on Paigow. I then played slots at low stakes to clear the wagering. Its a similar situation as yours the only difference being they paid me in full without any hassles.
     
  4. Apr 4, 2013
  5. gerilege

    gerilege Meister Member PABnorogue PABrogue

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Hungary
    Did you have any specific reasons to play Hot Ink for the whole 7500 wagering? Or did you play other slots as well?
     
  6. Apr 4, 2013
  7. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This isn't really relevant.

    The key point is whether the specific 30% max bet rule was broken. The rest of their argument is "spirit of the bonus", and not acceptable for an accredited casino.

    If the OP is certain she didn't break the 30% rule, she should PAB right away.

    The bet of €15 on two numbers would be classed as a bet of €30, as it is the stake per spin of the wheel that matters, not the bet per number. If she increased the total bet per spin after getting lucky on this opening bet, then this is where the 30% rule could have been broken.

    The rule applies to 30% of the bonus, or 30% of €143, which gives a max bet of €42.90
    This would be broken if she added one number to her strategy, making it €15 on three numbers, a total of €45

    By going into Playcheck, the Roulette bets can be checked to see if any transaction entry shows a total greater than €42.90, and if not, PAB as the rest is a "spirit of the bonus" argument.

    Not all casinos even allow play on Roulette for a bonus, and if the game shows as zero weighting in the terms, this effectively means it is not allowed, but in that case they should have said so in the email rather than waffling on about the max bet rule and small bets on slots.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Apr 4, 2013
  9. Tarabas3

    Tarabas3 Banned User, PAB fraud PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Moscow

    I did not wager more than 30 euro total a bet. I knew about that 30% rule and was very cautious.
     
  10. Apr 4, 2013
  11. Nate

    Nate Ueber Meister CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Monster
    Location:
    Cyberspace
    If you are confident of your claim then I would refrain from further posts and Pitch A Bitch:

    You can read about it here: http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/section/pitch-bitch-314/

    Further Posts on the subject CAN harm your chances so please be careful.

    Nate
     
    8 people like this.
  12. Apr 4, 2013
  13. gerilege

    gerilege Meister Member PABnorogue PABrogue

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Hungary
    It might be relevant in connection to 5.8.1 of the respective T&Cs. I think some of the phrases in that paragraph are more concrete than the general spirit of the bonus terms we frequently see.
    I would not like to go more into the details here, but my personal opinion is that the reason for the rejected payout here might be related to the play on this particular slot, and not related to the bet sizes used for completing wagering.
    I am not the person who should tell whether this decision was right or wrong, but from my perspective it might turn out to be a non-straightforward case at the end.
     
  14. Apr 4, 2013
  15. maphesto

    maphesto Ueber Meister CAG MM webmeister

    Location:
    Sweden
    Or, he can first contact their rep cobus here! ;)

    @OP: Lucky Nugget are accredited here at CM and I suggest you contact their rep first.
     
    5 people like this.
  16. Apr 4, 2013
  17. Nate

    Nate Ueber Meister CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Monster
    Location:
    Cyberspace
    You are spot on - I forgot about that :oops:

    Tx Maphesto!

    Nate
     
  18. Apr 4, 2013
  19. hakapuku

    hakapuku Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr

    Occupation:
    businessman
    Location:
    UA
    "5.8.1 Before any withdrawals are processed, your play will be reviewed for any irregular playing patterns. In the interests of fair gaming, equal, zero or low margin bets or hedge betting, shall all be considered irregular gaming for bonus play-through requirement purposes. Other examples of irregular game play include but are not limited to, placing single bets equal to or in excess of 30% or more of the value of the bonus credited to their account, placing even money bets on Roulette, Sic Bo or Craps, placing single bets equal to or in excess of 20% or more of the value of the bonus credited to their account until such time as the wagering requirements for that bonus have been met. For the purposes of this rule, a bet is defined as one roulette spin or one dealer's dealt hand in any table game, or one deal in any Video or Power Poker game (this includes Multi-Hand/Play games). Any double or gamble shall be considered a new bet. Should the Casino deem that irregular game play has occurred; the Casino reserves the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings. "

    Can somebody explain this to me? What 30% bet limits refer to and what 20% bet limits refer to?
     
  20. Apr 4, 2013
  21. hakapuku

    hakapuku Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr

    Occupation:
    businessman
    Location:
    UA
    There is nothing there about "specific slot play".
     
  22. Apr 4, 2013
  23. gerilege

    gerilege Meister Member PABnorogue PABrogue

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Hungary
    I DO appreciate input from any forum members, and I understand that there are natural reflections to what I posted. Still, let me refrain from commenting any more on this issue for now and see how the thread and a potential PAB would develop.
     
  24. Apr 4, 2013
  25. Tarabas3

    Tarabas3 Banned User, PAB fraud PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Moscow
    I have sent a personal message to Cobus (Lucky nugget representative).
     
  26. Apr 4, 2013
  27. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I suspect what has happened here is that they are now enforcing a 20% max bet rule, which the OP DID break, but have not properly updated the terms to reflect this, leaving the position unclear for players.

    This is definitely a PAB issue, as accreditation means that when a mistake is made like this by the casino, they would have to err in favour of the more generous interpretation until they correct the typo. For others, it reveals that they are now moving to a 20% max bet rule, as it was always 30% in the past.

    There is nothing about "this slot" as opposed to "that slot" in any terms and conditions, and unless they have specifically excluded this slot elsewhere, play on it is no more "irregular" than play on any other, as it's a slot, and the outcomes are all random, so no "strategy" involved.

    I have seen other MGS casinos exclude specific slots from making WR, but this has been progressives, and more oddly, the single non progressive "Scrooge". Unless Hot Ink is a Scrooge clone, I don't see the problem.

    I have seen casinos argue that switching to slots after starting on games with a lower weighting is "abuse", but they are not accredited, and they at least have this spelled out in the terms, some with a pretty clear "must not reduce bets by more than xx% after a winning streak".

    My big issue with Lucky Nugget is their change to 10 day pending for all large withdrawals, and their "large" is not the same as my "large", and seems to cover anything from the low hundreds upwards. I bet that even if they agreed to pay the OP, it would be pending for 10 days first.
     
  28. Apr 4, 2013
  29. hakapuku

    hakapuku Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr

    Occupation:
    businessman
    Location:
    UA

    The way I understand this rule is that 20% bet limit only refers to EVEN money bets on roulette, sicbo and craps. The OP ,as I see it, did not make even money bets (eg. bets on Red/Black, Odd/Even etc). So this rule cannot be applied to her case.
     
  30. Apr 4, 2013
  31. me_and_ed

    me_and_ed Ueber Meister CAG MM

    Occupation:
    Construction, Mining, Food
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Let me know if he actually responds, I have been waiting for 3 months from a PM I sent.
     
  32. Apr 4, 2013
  33. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    The wording is confusing. Even money bets are considered irregular play regardless of bet amount AFAICT.

    There seems to be two sets of rules for max bet. The logical and fair thing to do would be to apply the HIGHER of the two percentages.

    Unless there are other facts to which we are not privy, it LOOKS like a case of "pay the player".

    me_and_ed - 3 months non-response is unacceptable. Please let Bryan or Max know so they can find out what is going on.
     
    1 person likes this.
  34. Apr 4, 2013
  35. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    Funnily enough I closed my Lucky Nugget account last weekend for that very reason. I contacted Cobus and still 10 days later have had no reply. Prior to this I got paid on the few occasions I made a w/d from there.

    If you all remember, I started a thread last week for this very reason - concerning our responsibility to notify Max/Brian if we notice the advertised criteria for a particular casino's accreditation is not being maintained, or reduced. I would include in this both Vinyl's observation concerning the surreptitious 10-day pending for a vague definition of 'large withdrawals' AND the seemingly sleeping rep and bad/non-response time.

    I maintain that it's all very well members here chastising people for not using the accredited list before playing and ensuing problems, but what about when players join on the basis of changed/inaccurate information in the accreditied list??:mad:
     
  36. Apr 4, 2013
  37. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    So you chastise Bryan for not updating his accredited list using information that he is NOT provided with by members?

    That makes sense.

    We as members are part of the ongoing accredited process, in that the real time feedback we provide to Max and Bryan, when taken with other information, is vital in preventing the very problem you're talking about.

    I didn't see the other thread, but did you report the lack of response to Bryan? If me_and_ed had done so (I assume he didn't) and you have done so, then Bryan WILL take action to find out WTH is going on, AND will remove them from the list if the answers he receives are not satisfactory. I've seen it done on many occasions to even long-time accredited groups.

    The accredited standards are actually very tightly maintained and policed in comparison to other self-proclaimed "Watchdog" site, which should indicate just how little money and profit means to CM and how important integrity and professionalism is in his ethos.

    If players join on the basis of "inaccurate information" etc, then we must bear some responsibility for that. It's unreasonable and likely impossible for Bryan or anyone else to be personally up with every single issue that members experience without members actually reporting things when they happen. A lack of reply or some small detail might seem trivial and hardly worth it to a member, but if a dozen are having the same issue and also ignoring it, chances are it really is a BIG issue that could be the start of something even bigger, whereas if even a couple of those members passed the information along, it might just stop the issues in their tracks.

    I'll say one thing.....I do check out affy sites regularly, and from the examples of other "accredited/approved lists" I've seen, the one at CM is MILES ahead in regards to integrity. Some of the "approved" casinos I've seen at well-peddled sites here in the forum would make you :eek:. Another aspect that is good about the CM list is that it is limited to a selection of casinos who have been through a formal process and proven themselves, and that the rest of the site is not full of "other casinos" just to catch the extra affiliate dollars when the accredited casinos are exhausted for a player. I've heard the "yeah that casino isn't great...thats why we don't give it much webspace and it isn't an approved one etc etc"....what a load of crap. Players TRUST affiliates to lead them to reputable casinos, so having any association with casinos that have a proven record of being the opposite is disgusting IMO. If you have a casino listed on your site, then you ARE recommending it, and if it is a known craphole (even if the affy personally hasn't had many issues), then you deserve to be called out. It's disappointing that affys here who do this are allowed to have their links in their siggys, but then I don't think anyone but the mods should have them anyway, but that's a different rant for a different day.....
     
    2 people like this.
  38. Apr 4, 2013
  39. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    I think you should take that statement back; you have admitted you didn't read my thread/ideas about this matter and had you done so you would see my sentiments are the polar opposite to which you allege here. In fact you could have saved yourself a bit of typing because much of what else you wrote mirrors what I stated too.

    http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/online-casinos/56093-accredited-casino-profiles-we-can-help.html
     
    1 person likes this.
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